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No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

Yogg-Saron fan #1


It's loud but I grew up around cicadas so I was used to it (they really are loud as balls in real life, or at least were 20 years ago).

I would strongly recommend staying out of this thread for now because even oblique references to Higurashi will spoil things at least until you get through episode 4 (imo).

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Sinteres
Mar 26, 2004
Please don't be rude, it upsets me when I'm trying to be smug

No Wave posted:

It's loud but I grew up around cicadas so I was used to it (they really are loud as balls in real life, or at least were 20 years ago).

I would strongly recommend staying out of this thread for now because even oblique references to Higurashi will spoil things at least until you get through episode 4 (imo).

We have them here too, and they drive me loving crazy, so I come by the irritation here naturally.

Good advice--I'll check back after I finish 4 then.

Nate RFB
Jan 17, 2005



Clapping Larry

Posting your ongoing theories is still a fun exercise, especially to work out your thoughts as you progress through the chapters.

PMush Perfect
Sep 30, 2009

MY PAPER SOLDIERS
FORM A WALL
FIVE PACES THICK
AND TWICE AS TALL




The clear solution is to post but never read anyone else's posts, which is the best way to live on SA in general.

MegaZeroX
Dec 11, 2013

"I'm Jack Frost, ho! Nice to meet ya, hee ho!"


PMush Perfect posted:

The clear solution is to post but never read anyone else's posts, which is the best way to live on SA in general.

StrixNebulosa
Feb 14, 2012

You cheated not only the game, but yourself.
But most of all, you cheated BABA


I love reading liveblogs in this thread, for the record.

Sinteres
Mar 26, 2004
Please don't be rude, it upsets me when I'm trying to be smug

gently caress it . I'm partway through part 2 of Higurashi now, and while my theories up to this point are basically summed up by \_(ツ)_/ (which makes me wonder if I'm doing this wrong and if I should be thinking about things more given how much black bar discussion I've seen but not read for Umineko in here) and the character review in the extras of the first game pretty much summed up the different possibilities at this point, here are a couple general thoughts: I was pretty much 100% sure Shion wasn't Mion from the start, basically just because having Keiichi be wrong seemd more interesting than having him be right, but I was wavering a bit before the reveal, because Rena also being so wrong about that was a little more surprising. Overall, going back to silly slice of life stuff immediately after the gruesome ending of part 1 was pretty jarring, and the contrast really works. This one might be slightly more over the top with the whacky hijinks but tbf smoke was coming out of Rena's head in the first one too, so it's not like this was ever fully serious. The festival is coming up though, so the sense of dread that the days of laughter and fun are coming to an end is setting in.

Oh, btw, I mostly skipped over my thoughts on part 1 since I've already moved on, but Creepy Rena is creepy as gently caress. Also I really don't trust Ooishi

Sinteres fucked around with this message at 15:43 on May 30, 2020

MegaZeroX
Dec 11, 2013

"I'm Jack Frost, ho! Nice to meet ya, hee ho!"


Sinteres posted:

gently caress it . I'm partway through part 2 of Higurashi now, and while my theories up to this point are basically summed up by \_(ツ)_/ (which makes me wonder if I'm doing this wrong and if I should be thinking about things more given how much black bar discussion I've seen but not read for Umineko in here)

Umineko has much more room for speculation than Higurashi does, just because of the way the story is told.

Mindblast
Jun 28, 2006

Moving at the speed of death.




Finished Raging Loop. Liked it quite a bit.

The strongest parts are definitely when you're smack dab in the middle of the mafia games. Trying to figure out who's what ahead of schedule is fun, and they use the title dropped mechanic to good effect here.

What comes outside the mafia games is less interesting, but due to how the vn is structured it doesn't diminish the mafia games you played. The vn weaves paranormal and not-so paranormal things together, but when it counts(mafia games) you don't have to worry about this. This is a good thing because outside the mafia games, things can get a bit messy.

There is a chunk of exposition dump at some point that is important to what comes after it, but it's not done in a way that is even remotely engaging. It's a shame they didn't manage to sprinkle the info of this dump over all the you've read up until that point. It feels like they discovered way too late into the making of this thing that at some point everything important needs to be knotted together.

StrixNebulosa
Feb 14, 2012

You cheated not only the game, but yourself.
But most of all, you cheated BABA


Umineko is a murder mystery that actively tells you to think it out and figure out why/how/who/what/etc, so it's practically designed for black bar discussion.

Higurashi by contrast is more of a... I kind of want to say character drama? There are horror and thriller and mystery elements to it, but there's not the constant push for "you have all the clues, FIGURE IT OUT, NEVER STOP THINKING"

Not to say that Umineko doesn't have character drama stuff, and not to say that Higurashi isn't also something you should theorize on and try to solve. But they're different.

Either way post more.

(I know, I should post more myself but I'm stalled on Umineko - read a few scenes today, but I'm not mainlining it like I was due to terminal adhd brain.)

Wanton Spoon
Aug 19, 2007

Senior Burgeoner




Wanton Spoon posted:

I notice that YOU and ME and HER: A Love Story (capitalizations important, I'm sure) has recently gotten a release on Steam. [...] I'm tempted to get it. But I'm hesitant, and I'm wondering if someone here has played it and can give me some further insight into it without spoiling too much.
Since no one had any comments on this, I decided to just take the plunge and get it. And... it's hard for me to tell whether I think it's BAD, or if I just think it's too dark for my tastes. Personally, I feel like it technically uses the central conceit in a better way than the other VN I mentioned. I felt like the other VN used the central conceit primarily for shock value, whereas I feel like this game had a specific point it was trying to get across, and it used the central conceit as an especially powerful tool for getting that message across. But on top of that, it also does a bunch of other stuff with its story more for shock value than anything else. It's bad enough that I had to stop reading it and I'm not sure I want to finish it.

It might be standard for horror media, but I don't like it when stories do stuff for shock value unless there's some message attached to it. For comparison, I also didn't like Inside even though that game was a critical darling.

On a somewhat related note, YOU and ME and HER isn't the most LGBTQ+-friendly thing in the world, either.

I don't know. You know how a lot of VNs and anime examine otaku culture in such a way that they take a critical look at some of the bigger problems with otaku culture? But because that's still their target audience, the story starts doing things that make you feel like it's just indulging in the things it's pretending to criticize?

The story makes me feel gross for even reading it, is what I'm saying. I envy those who are reading Higurashi or Umineko for the first time instead.

StrixNebulosa posted:

Not to say that Umineko doesn't have character drama stuff, and not to say that Higurashi isn't also something you should theorize on and try to solve. But they're different.
What really make Umineko magic, to me, is that even though it highlights the mystery as such an important and central aspect of the story, I feel like it does it in service of the character drama rather than the other way around.

PMush Perfect
Sep 30, 2009

MY PAPER SOLDIERS
FORM A WALL
FIVE PACES THICK
AND TWICE AS TALL




gently caress. I guess I need to start playing VNs now. (I blame the YTTD LP.)

Mindblast
Jun 28, 2006

Moving at the speed of death.




PMush Perfect posted:

gently caress. I guess I need to start playing VNs now. (I blame the YTTD LP.)

There's some pretty nice ones out there. This thread is a good place to get started(there are so so many out there you shouldn't touch with a 10ft pole).

Sinteres
Mar 26, 2004
Please don't be rude, it upsets me when I'm trying to be smug

Higurashi part 2 continued: Made it through the festival, and nowhere has the contrast between the silly parts and the horror parts been more stark. The part where they're competing to get customers to buy stuff from different stalls is funny and absurd (Mion making an idiot of herself by talking about eating goldfish made me laugh), but then the warehouse scene where Takano is explaining what all the torture devices are for and talking about cannibalism and everything was arguably the most gruesome part of the series yet, especially since it just kept going and going while she was having the time of her life talking about it.

Sorry the whole post is basically a black bar, but I want to be pretty careful not to ruin it for any latecomers like myself. Not really sure what there is to talk about that doesn't give something away. One thing I'm wondering (but I'm not not really asking) is how the parts relate to each other. Like they seem to just be different routes I guess, but it's not fully clear to me since no choices are involved if Keiichi is just stumbling into different circumstances or if people's personalities are different at times or if some characters (like Shion) don't even exist in every part. I'm sure there's going to be some fuckery where one appears to be the other at some point(s) though, so maybe she even had an active role in part 1 at some point that I'm being a colossal idiot for missing, idk

Edit: Nearing the end of part 2, and while it's probably crazy to interrupt the climax to post about it, something's blowing my mind. The surprise to me about the conversation at Mion's house so far is that she's talking so much about Japanese war crimes. I really really don't expect to see them mentioned in such gruesome detail in Japanese media, even if it is a horror game.

Actual ending thoughts: Keiichi, you dumbass. Oh, he survived. Keiichi, you dumbass. Oh, he survived. Then the hospital and welp, I guess it can't be helped.

Still not really sure how these parts fit together. Rena seemed to be the one who was possessed in the first game, while it was Mion in the second. Takano apparently was too though? idk it's pretty confusing. The twist that Rika had the syringe with her when she went to Mion's house was pretty awesome though. She obviously wasn't a sweet and helpless victim. This might be stupid, but I can't help wondering if Mion and Shion are actually triplets or something, because it feels like there's still a bullet left to be fired somewhere in their relationship.


I think I'll take a little break before I jump into 3. Even knowing I still have Umineko to read at some point after this, tearing through it all in one giant binge feels wasteful.

Sinteres fucked around with this message at 03:36 on Jun 1, 2020

Nate RFB
Jan 17, 2005



Clapping Larry

I finally jumped on the Utawarerumono sequels and Anju is the absolute worst and I'm glad for it.

Nate RFB fucked around with this message at 16:42 on Jun 1, 2020

numerrik
Jul 15, 2009

Falcon Punch!



Im about half way through YU-NO, and Ive gotten the Ayumi, Mitsuki, and Mio endings. Its pretty good so far and I really like trying to Suss out whos human and whos celestial. Good times.

thark
Mar 3, 2008

bork

I remember YU-NO (the original, or at least the original windows port, I presume it started out on pc98 or something) as absolutely amazing and an all-time classic but that was a long time ago and both times and my tastes have changed since then. I wonder how I'd feel about it now.

That said it's a shame more VNs haven't adapted the explicit path tree. Zero Escape series and Raging Loop are the examples I can think of, what else?

numerrik
Jul 15, 2009

Falcon Punch!



Im playing the new spike chunsoft release. Its not nearly as explicit, and I think the new art style is fine (especially since you can choose to use the old music). Though I am in agreement that I would call this a classic.

Sakurazuka
Jan 24, 2004

NANI?



Yu-No is great until the ending which is uh yikes lol

Nate RFB
Jan 17, 2005



Clapping Larry

It's the final route for me. The last like 25% of Yu-No is such a bummer and it basically overrides any good will I would have otherwise had for the rest of the VN. I also think for as novel and important historically the timeline chart manipulation is for organizing its story and route, in practice at least the original release is a bit too obtuse for its own good at a few junctions and often devolves into frustrating point & click scavenger hunts.

PMush Perfect
Sep 30, 2009

MY PAPER SOLDIERS
FORM A WALL
FIVE PACES THICK
AND TWICE AS TALL




Sakurazuka posted:

Yu-No is great until the ending which is uh yikes lol
What the ending yikes, for someone whos never and probably will never play it?

StrixNebulosa
Feb 14, 2012

You cheated not only the game, but yourself.
But most of all, you cheated BABA


PMush Perfect posted:

What the ending yikes, for someone whos never and probably will never play it?

Father-daughter incest presented as a good thing

PMush Perfect
Sep 30, 2009

MY PAPER SOLDIERS
FORM A WALL
FIVE PACES THICK
AND TWICE AS TALL




StrixNebulosa posted:

Father-daughter incest presented as a good thing

Sakurazuka
Jan 24, 2004

NANI?



Fortunately the re-release makes the pixel hunts and knowing where to go a lot easier.

PMush Perfect posted:

What the ending yikes, for someone whos never and probably will never play it?

The final route is an set in an alternate universe so far removed from ours that it's basically an RPG fantasy world and ends with the main character and his four year old daughter (who looks and acts late teens because people grow up faster there) becoming Adam & Eve for the entire multiverse. Also it implies that another character you gently caress in a different route is also your daughter but noone knows about it lol.

StrixNebulosa
Feb 14, 2012

You cheated not only the game, but yourself.
But most of all, you cheated BABA


It comes out of nowhere too, like, 90% of the VN is about a mystery and at worst the teenager is horny. Then the finale hits and Whoof

Hwurmp
May 20, 2005

I LIKE TO MAKE VAGUE THREATS TO PEOPLE ON THE INTERNET BECAUSE I AM TOUGH GUY. P.S. ASK ME ABOUT THE TIME A GIRL BEAT ME UP IN GRADE SCHOOL. HER NAME WAS SUZIE SHE DREW A BIG WEINER ON MY FOREHEAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

visualnovels.txt

StrixNebulosa
Feb 14, 2012

You cheated not only the game, but yourself.
But most of all, you cheated BABA


Hwurmp posted:

visualnovels.txt

Honestly, no. Most plot-focused visual novels don't hit for incest as a big thing. I can't speak for the porn incest market, but it's not something you can say for the entire genre.

lets hang out
Jan 10, 2015



Best thing about yu-no is the music, 2nd best thing is the switch exclusive? 8-bit bonus game (which has nes remixes of the music)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8jyJQikLuc

Found gameplay video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9pMxAHDxws

lets hang out fucked around with this message at 13:39 on Jun 2, 2020

HerpicleOmnicron5
May 31, 2013

How did this smug dummkopf ever make general?


StrixNebulosa posted:

Honestly, no. Most plot-focused visual novels don't hit for incest as a big thing. I can't speak for the porn incest market, but it's not something you can say for the entire genre.

I remember Tsukihime did one. That's the only major VN that I can recall with incest.

Sakurazuka
Jan 24, 2004

NANI?



Hwurmp posted:

visualnovels.txt

AV/post synergy

Sakurazuka
Jan 24, 2004

NANI?



lets hang out posted:

Best thing about yu-no is the music, 2nd best thing is the switch exclusive? 8-bit bonus game (which has nes remixes of the music)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8jyJQikLuc

gently caress I should have got the Switch version.

Anyway yeah the music owns

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JppWvZxmvs

Hwurmp
May 20, 2005

I LIKE TO MAKE VAGUE THREATS TO PEOPLE ON THE INTERNET BECAUSE I AM TOUGH GUY. P.S. ASK ME ABOUT THE TIME A GIRL BEAT ME UP IN GRADE SCHOOL. HER NAME WAS SUZIE SHE DREW A BIG WEINER ON MY FOREHEAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

StrixNebulosa posted:

Honestly, no. Most plot-focused visual novels don't hit for incest as a big thing. I can't speak for the porn incest market, but it's not something you can say for the entire genre.

it just seems like even very good VNs tend to have one major "oof" moment, incest or not

Nate RFB
Jan 17, 2005



Clapping Larry

I mean, not really, not more so than any other form of fiction can be.

Also my friend I know you post in the Falcom thread so c'mon now lol

No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

Yogg-Saron fan #1


The one that comes to mind for me is from Steins gate that scene where Okabe overpowers Moeka... yeesh....

Kanfy
Jan 9, 2012

Just gotta keep walking down that road.


In a world where Game of Thrones became one of the biggest shows in the history of television watched by everyone's pet dog and grandmother, I feel like your average VN has if anything gone proportionally down in shock value compared to just plain ol' mainstream television.

Kanfy fucked around with this message at 16:49 on Jun 2, 2020

Hwurmp
May 20, 2005

I LIKE TO MAKE VAGUE THREATS TO PEOPLE ON THE INTERNET BECAUSE I AM TOUGH GUY. P.S. ASK ME ABOUT THE TIME A GIRL BEAT ME UP IN GRADE SCHOOL. HER NAME WAS SUZIE SHE DREW A BIG WEINER ON MY FOREHEAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Game of Thrones is nothing but oofs

Game oof Thrones

Irony Be My Shield
Jul 29, 2012

PRETTY SURE THAT ONE'S SARCASM, BOSS



Yeah but in spite of that it still manages to be bad.

Ibram Gaunt
Jul 22, 2009


I'm going to read Dies Irae finally. Haven't indulged my inner chuuni in quite a while.

Mindblast
Jun 28, 2006

Moving at the speed of death.




Apparantly there are few things out there more chuuni than Dies Irae so you're going to get your fill and then some.

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StrixNebulosa
Feb 14, 2012

You cheated not only the game, but yourself.
But most of all, you cheated BABA


Ibram Gaunt posted:

I'm going to read Dies Irae finally. Haven't indulged my inner chuuni in quite a while.

Oh man you are in for a treat, I love that thing. It really captures all the glorious ridiculous of shouting about how strong your powers are and then fighting, with all the gothic sweep of fighting nazi vampires who want to bring hell on earth.

Also obligatory shoutout to how drat awesome Kazikilu Bey's VA is. I could listen to that man read a phone book it's so good.

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