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gegi
Aug 3, 2004
Butterfly Girl
I wanted to like I/O and I kind of liked parts of it but eventually it kept being SO much work to progress through in hopes of ever understanding anything that I lost momentum and gave up. Too many other games to play, and honestly I'm afraid that their answers aren't actually going to make sense and I would be better off sticking with my own crazy theories.

After that, I'm wary of attempting Root Double.

On the other hand everyone should play The House in Fata Morgana.

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gegi
Aug 3, 2004
Butterfly Girl
I really loved Fata Morgana but haven't played Umineko so can't compare.

All the other endings are straightforward 'make a dumb choice somewhere' things, including several end 0's which aren't even on the ending list.


Ending 7, I believe, is leaving the house without going back for the painting.

Ending 5 is during the second timed choice, if you pick the 'Let It Go' option you're presented with instead of waiting for it to time out.

gegi
Aug 3, 2004
Butterfly Girl
(fata morgana)

Ibram Gaunt posted:

Kinda funny though that Mell and Nellie from the first door look so...weird, but their past selves are much more aesthetically pleasing to look at. I guess the artist improved during production but didn't want to go back and redraw or something.

They did eventually redraw one character after deciding the early style wasn't good enough, but said character was a bit more important, so.

gegi
Aug 3, 2004
Butterfly Girl

Getsuya posted:

Yeah Nurse Love Addiction was horrible. The main girl was one of the worst VN MCs I've ever seen. At the very least she was by far the dumbest.

I tried to just force my way through because I liked the rest of the cast but then I got to That Scene and quit.

I was enjoying her idiocy up until she decided to demonstrate empathy by peeing in the middle of a hallway and everyone continued to support her as "our slightly dumb but well-meaning student nurse' as opposed to kicking her out of the program for being consistently terrible at everything.

I'm okay with a character being an idiot who drifts through life failing at everything and being politely ignored as long as she isn't harming anyone else. I'm okay with a character being an airhead with an inexplicable talent whose quirks are therefore overlooked because she's good at something. But when you're a total idiot, worst of the class in everything, failing every challenge, disobeying rules, etc, and you do something that bizarre, something which is held up as a big mistake by other characters so it's not like it wasn't supposed to be a problem... it bothers me that she wasn't just kicked out of the program and forced to fight her way back in, which would at least give her a chance for some development.

I am still not very far into the game so I expect poo poo to get much weirder eventually. Really, I'm here because I'm expecting the game to swerve from cute to OMGWTF at some point and I'm into that kind of thing.

gegi
Aug 3, 2004
Butterfly Girl

Klingon w Bowl Cut posted:

Don't leave us hangin'. What's so bad about this game? I saw it randomly pop up on Steam too and was vaguely curious.

While I haven't played it yet I have heard almost entirely positive commentary from other parts of the internet, including people talking about how much it made them cry. What I do know about it is that there are almost no choices, maybe like one which-ending choice near the end, and that while there's suggestive text there's very little in the way of girls actually being romantic or loving with each other in graphics, possibly not even kissing onscreen, which disappoints some players. Considering how much yuri is just cutesy happy sweet schoolgirl stuff they may be overly generous for the change in tone, I don't know.

There's a free demo though so if you're vaguely curious you could check that.


Also, now that I have played Nurse Love Addiction, I am disappointed by Itsuki's route. After the full-blown crazy train of Nao and Sakuya's routes, I was expecting Itsuki's storyline to get into the exciting details of the newly-revived secret research projects, who's behind them, what their goal is, and finally force Asuka to unlock her secret true power and do some murdering, possibly with the aid of Firestarter, and have them really run amok and take over the government or something. Instead, Asuka doesn't even get her memories back in this one and it just sputters out.

gegi fucked around with this message at 18:59 on Mar 7, 2017

gegi
Aug 3, 2004
Butterfly Girl

Fru Fru posted:

I really want to but only being on PS4 kinda sucks.

Isn't it also on Steam for PC?

gegi
Aug 3, 2004
Butterfly Girl

FractalSandwich posted:

Why not? Serious question. This thread is my pretty much my only point of contact with the VN subset of the game dev community, so I don't know what problems people run into when they try to make them. Imagine I were to say, right now, "I'm going to make a female-led and possibly very gay friendship drama. I can handle everything on the production and technical sides, so I just need to find some creative types who want to work on something like that." Would I flat-out not be able to find anyone to collaborate with?

There are plenty of people who would be happy to collaborate with you, but most of them are screwups. The other problem is that a lot of the VN fanbase simply shuns anything not made in Japan, sight unseen.

End result: there are TONS and TONS of yuri VNs made, or proposed to be made, in the west. A substantial proportion are never completed, or are extremely short, because they were made by hobbyists who couldn't keep it together. And then the few that make it through all those challenges and get released... get ignored anyway by people who only want to play stuff from Japan.

I have a thread on brokenforum listing yuri games available in English. It's not completely comprehensive because I can't possibly keep up with everything, there's too much, but it's a starting point: https://brokenforum.com/index.php?threads/yuri-games-women-dating-women.10036/ This includes both english-original and japanese-translated titles, and I'm not mentioning quality there (though it sometimes comes up in the later discussion) just listing games.

If you're looking specifically for warm happy feel-good yuri games I would recommend looking up nomnomnami's work. It's generally free and short but super-cute and happiness-inducing, without being mindless fluff the way something like hanahira is. https://nomnomnami.itch.io/ I haven't played all these myself though.

My usual recommendations lean more in the plot-angst-drama direction though. Aoishiro is a favorite of mine, though it's not english-licensed.

Also, play A Little Lily Princess.

gegi
Aug 3, 2004
Butterfly Girl

Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:

Traditional fantasy isn't really a thing that comes up very often in VNs. Especially not all-ages VNs we can discuss here.

Technically the latest release by Winged Cloud is traditional fantasy and non-H (just very fanservicey, to the point where it detracts from the standard fantasy story) Not actually recommending.

I don't know if it's quite 'traditional' fantasy, but ENIGMA: is certainly more fantasy than anything else, and you'll find some more traditional fantasy lurking in it if you play far enough. It's not a bad game at all, though I found the eventual endgame slightly unfulfilling and keep wondering if I missed the point, so more people playing it and talking about it would benefit me. http://store.steampowered.com/app/494100/ENIGMA/ on sale for the next two hours. I think it deserves more attention than it's gotten.

Fault Milestone One was okay but I prefer VNs with choices over KNs so I never played beyond that first game.

For a very short free game, The Knife Of The Traitor has very interesting visuals.

I assume Cinderella Phenomenon is fantasy but haven't played it.

Brilliant Shadows probably counts as traditional fantasy? It's a pretty unusual art style for a VN though. http://store.steampowered.com/app/409920/Brilliant_Shadows__Part_One_of_the_Book_of_Gray_Magic/

gegi
Aug 3, 2004
Butterfly Girl
Just fluff but you have to pick both for 100% completion. Which will be a looooong way down the road.

gegi
Aug 3, 2004
Butterfly Girl

Getsuya posted:

Littlewitch Romanesque just got a permanent price drop to $15 on Steam. I have loved this artist ever since the equally beautiful Quartett! (the all-ages PS2 version of course), but for some reason never got around to picking up this.

According to reviews it’s Long Live the Queen meets Princess Maker.

The price drop is in celebration of Eiyu Senki coming out on Steam after being a PS3 exclusive in the US for a while.

It's a fun game if you don't mind a bunch of fanservice involving very young-looking girls (toned down from the 18+ original, which even outside of the H-scenes had panties and nude shots all over the place. MOST of that is cut or redrawn in this version but not all), but that X meets Y description will get a lot of hopes up about the game being something it's not.

Overly lengthy description: It's a child-raising game merged with a dating sim, which looks like it might have RPG elements but doesn't actually. You play a male protagonist wizard who is assigned responsibility for two young girls. You boost their stats by playing a dice-rolling game to build up points to unlock spells. Unlocking a spell gives you a little cutscene explaining what that spell does in-world (which may lead to a cute/fanservice CG) and also gives you special bonus powers you can use in the dice-rolling game to unlock further spells even faster.

You can also choose to play events instead of training. In order to play an event, you must have all the spells that will be used in the event, it is not possible to 'fail' inside an event. The events may describe wandering around in a dungeon or fighting a dragon or something, but it's all VN-style narration, no actual walkaround or combat or picking what spell to use. There are no choices or other gameplay inside these events at all, it's just a story.

Which events you choose to pursue will help you build up points towards various different endings, including the romantic relationship endings. Yes, there are endings for both the young girls you are training (though since you only get their endings in year 3, if you assume they were 15 to start with, they would be 18 then), there are also endings for many other female characters who show up during the course of the story. Getting a romance ending stops the raising-sim part in its tracks. Only if you avoid all the romance options do you actually get the "here are the careers your students learned" kind of princess-maker style endings.

If that all sounds fine to you it's definitely worth $15, it's packed full of content and takes many playthroughs just to achieve the dating ends, much less a true 100%. But the eroge framework is still evident and affects the game design.

gegi
Aug 3, 2004
Butterfly Girl
I know a lot more than one of those unfortunately. All of them look like complete garbage and try to offer hundreds of achievements as their selling point, they're making no attempt at actually making VNs at all.

But only the IP holder can request takedowns and only of the individual images. So when one image gets reported they just replace it with another.

Not enough fuss for Valve to ban these people apparently.

gegi
Aug 3, 2004
Butterfly Girl

astr0man posted:

Just be aware that IMHHW is very generic slice of life. If you enjoy slice of life stuff it's decent enough.

Generic slice of life with some cool glider stuff.
I could do with more glider porn and less wacky anime hijinks. (the world does not need a duck that steals panties)
I may be weird.

gegi
Aug 3, 2004
Butterfly Girl
I felt KnS2 was a big letdown from the first game but I seem to be in the minority.

There was the huge amounts of flashback time (often without any interaction), not enough of the investigation aspects I liked from the first game, and one (though not all) of the mysteries was, to me, lit up with a flashing neon sign from the beginning so much that there was never any question of who was responsible, just of how many hours it would take before people noticed the obvious. while it finally built up to some good stuff there was way too much time wasted on things I did not care about that, to me, were just in the way of the story.

also if you haven't played cartagra, there are a lot of callbacks.

gegi
Aug 3, 2004
Butterfly Girl
Yes, it has nudity and h-scenes and some of them are unavoidable. Censored LPs exist.

gegi
Aug 3, 2004
Butterfly Girl
Most professional VNs will voice everyone except the protagonist.

It's much rarer for indie-level VNs, whether they originate in Japan or elsewhere.

Japanese otome VNs have the advantage that they are rarely 18+, which means that they can get properly famous voice actors to do the work without having to hide them under a pseudonym. So they often have some sexy-voiced guy as a selling point.

gegi
Aug 3, 2004
Butterfly Girl

Irukandji Syndrome posted:

Ha ha ha :v:

I hope you're playing the All Ages version, in which case you'll be fine

Since we mentioned otome games earlier, are there any decent f/f content games that aren't either 1. barely 18 love interests who are still in high school 2. Sakura-tier cheesecake with jiggle sliders? My gay little heart just wants to see adult women have fulfilling relationships with each other WITHOUT it being fanservice trash :smith:

It'd honestly be really cool to see a gay game where the love subplots take a back seat to the epic story like Fate/Stay Night, but that seems to be too much to ask, so I'm fine with romance stuff.

I've already played We Know The Devil, unfortunately I didn't really care for it. Cool aesthetic but I have gripes with the ending.

I can provide you with a fairly sizable list of yuri games, and otome games with yuri routes, in English. There's a LOT more available than people think unless they actually do the research. However, finding things that meet your precise taste can be trickier.

Most VNs / dating games in general involve teenagers. Even WKTD for that matter.

"Love, Guitars, and the Nashville Skyline" should qualify as adults but I have not played the game and can't tell you if it's any good. I also don't know how much of the game remains when the 18+ content is cut, but it certainly doesn't seem to be a jigglefest like Negligee.

For a game where the romance takes a backseat to epic storyline, Aoishiro is the best yuri game out there. Unfortunately it's not officially licensed, so you'll have to find a copy and a translation patch. I have played that game and can firmly recommend it. They are still teenagers though but at least the story doesn't take place in school.

I have NOT yet played Shadows of Pygmalion, which is apparently almost all storyline and just barely any romance at all.

I have played Nurse Love Addiction. It's a weird game. Yes, the characters are out of high school, but that just means they went right into job-training school, and the protagonist is really dumb. It's a game that looks like it's going to be the sappiest, fluffiest, pinkest mass of sugar you've seen in your life, and then a handful of "WTF?!?" situations show up. And the author has a couple of strange fetishes. You need a high tolerance for anime weird. (There IS a plot underneath the slice-of-life, and it will be a surprise, but the focus never really goes into the huge epic possibilities.)

If you just want an enormous list of english yuri options, though, let me know and I can list at least a hundred games.

gegi
Aug 3, 2004
Butterfly Girl
huge list of stuff:

https://pastebin.com/N78Y5FW3

Much of it is almost certainly garbage. Some of it I barely know anything about. And I'm sure I'm missing titles (I just realised I forgot to put Butterfly Soup in there)

gegi
Aug 3, 2004
Butterfly Girl
I've never understood why people fuss so much about how honorifics "should" be removed because normal readers couldn't possibly understand them, because I used to live on a diet of fantasy novels that always added made-up stuff to language and you were expected to be capable of understanding this sort of thing from context.

I'm fine with removing them if they're not explicitly important to the story, especially if the story isn't set in Japan anyway, I just don't think it's a crime to leave them in, either.

My knowledge of Japanese is pitifully low and yet there are still many times when I've understood nuances of what was being said from the voice acting that were completely lost in the translation, and because my knowledge of the language is so bad it's often the honorifics I'm picking up on. Too many VNs have important information coded in who's addressing whom how, and when they change those modes, and an awful lot of bad translations become nonsensical when they refer to someone using a friend's first name, when they were using first names all along! (Of course, translators that bad would probably do a terrible job even with the -san still in place. How on earth do you translate 'miko' as 'angel'???)

gegi
Aug 3, 2004
Butterfly Girl

NikkolasKing posted:

So I'm playing through Amnesia Memories. I just finished my third world and while Clover (my first) ended pretty happily, after the last two endings, I feel super cheated and very angry.

Oh they weren't even premature 'bad endings." I got a couple of those two, frickin' ukyo. What i have gotten, looking at a guide, is three "Normal" Endings. Only, Kent's is the one and only ending that felt like a real ending. Shin and Toma were both basically bad endings because you don't remember, nothing is resolved, and it just gives you a few lines of text saying "and time passed, now it's all over."

I've calmed down some now but after the second time this happened to me I was pretty livid. I did my best to get the Good Ending, failed, and was rewarded with this bullshit. This is only my second VN. Hakuoki wasn't this stringent and even in the ending where Sanan died, it felt like an ending. It wasn't happy but it didn't build up to something then smack me in the face and say "nope, you get nothing" like this game did.

Are a lot of VN's like this? Where, unless I follow some guide and utterly ruin my experience by removing all emotional investment from what's happening, I'll end up with bullshit endings?

Design philosophy varies a lot in VNs and Amnesia has its own flaws IMO.

A few VNs have tons and tons of endings and all your choices can send you off in different directions. This is most common in games with life-or-death stuff going on because usually a lot of those endings will be either you or your love interest dying in some horrible way, as this is the easiest way to explain why the game is now over. In that sort of game you are usually expected to die a lot while trying to find your way through the maze to the good ending, because that's the challenge, that's the gameplay. These are terrible and stressful for people who hate frustration and narrative puzzles, but I personally like them.

A few VNs have as close to zero choices as possible. Either no choice at all, or the only thing you get to pick is your love interest and then you read the story of what happens to you and it ends well. I generally hate this, if I only wanted a fixed story I would read a book or watch an anime or something.

A lot of VNs make you pick a route, and then give you choices during that route, all of which seem to have no effect on the story until suddenly near the end you all of a sudden get a Good, Neutral, or Bad ending (or even just Good/Bad) based on how well you've done so far. In many of these games you cannot get a single choice wrong or you won't get the good end. And again the "right" answers may not be obvious, because they want to trick you into failing, otherwise there's no challenge. The general recommendation for playing this sort of game is to play once making the choices you would naturally make, and after that, play with a walkthrough.

What's surprisingly rare in VNs is to do a more "role playing" approach, where you are probably going to get a good end at the end of the route, but details of the epilogue will change based on the personality you created throughout the game. Shaping the protagonist's personality is generally not a thing in JVNs in my experience, unless you are playing something like Princess Maker.

However I found Amnesia particularly frustrating because you don't even really get a chance to develop a relationship with the guy in order to make sensible choices about winning him. You, being amnesiac and trying to hide it, have no idea what's going on, and have to be trying to win the affections of a guy that you the player may have zero interest in. In at least one route, as I recall, there was NO reason why you would like the guy at all unless you actually reached his good end and then suddenly his caring side was revealed. The neutral endings should have been used as hints to spur you in the right direction and make you care about doing it right. Instead they generally made you think "well, screw this guy anyway!", as I recall.

I kept going because I'm a completionist and I was determined to find the good points in the game, but I think the game's design was backward. I would not recommend it to a VN newbie for any reason other than the art, which is pretty nice.

gegi
Aug 3, 2004
Butterfly Girl
Also Fatal Twelve is out, for fans of fantasy-drama and slightly-more-understated lesbians.

gegi
Aug 3, 2004
Butterfly Girl

Well it's not masterpiece why-haven't-you-all-played-this-yet good but those don't come around that often. I guess the word I'm looking for is 'solid'. There's no caveats or warnings that I need to provide before playing, unless you despise that sort of dramatic magic plot entirely, and that should be obvious to you from the premise.

If it looks like your kind of thing, it's good.

gegi
Aug 3, 2004
Butterfly Girl
The second one is much less interactive and there's still lots of unskippable h-scenes.

gegi
Aug 3, 2004
Butterfly Girl
As long as they get a physical release you can play them on the Vita anyway, I believe?

gegi
Aug 3, 2004
Butterfly Girl
Is 7'scarlet more or less worth trying to obtain than psychedelica of the black butterfly?
I worry about missing out on vita games but at the same time I never have time to PLAY them, they just pile up...

gegi
Aug 3, 2004
Butterfly Girl
but... I need physical carts so I don't run into region-lock problems, that's WHY I BOUGHT A VITA...

gegi
Aug 3, 2004
Butterfly Girl

Alder posted:

I would say it probably would be a good idea to take a break and clear up the backlog. I'm looking forward to 7'scarlet since I like the art and it got decent reviews. Otome VN do go on sale often and PSN will never disappear overnight.

I can't use the PSN that's why I stockpile the physical games.

Well, I say can't, but that's a slight exaggeration. I travel between regions constantly. I don't really even know what region my account is, if I have an account, which I assume I do but I pay as little attention as possible to how all that works. I just want to play games. I do not want to get tied into any digital purchase that might be revoked for stupid reasons, or might lock my account in a way that stops it from playing half my games.

gegi
Aug 3, 2004
Butterfly Girl

Raxivace posted:

I just read up on some of this, and jesus its fuckin' Morality in Media.

What's next? Jack Thompson coming back onto the scene?

From what I've heard multiple different causes have been blamed, none with proof. At least one claimed responsibility but there was pretty good evidence that it was nothing to do with them.

https://twitter.com/metasynthie/status/997910081273507840


EDIT: And now they're all starting to receive emails telling them to disregard the earlier ban threat?

gegi fucked around with this message at 00:49 on May 20, 2018

gegi
Aug 3, 2004
Butterfly Girl

Sakurazuka posted:

I wish all VNs had a VLR style flowchart so you could see what you had and hadn't done.

Not all VNs have a perfect branching structure where every choice forks the plot with no recombining, complex combinations, or variations within scenes based on previous choices. All the things that allow VNs to be more complex than printed CYOA gamebooks mean that they're not always well suited for flowcharts.

gegi
Aug 3, 2004
Butterfly Girl
fatal twelve is good. it is not fata morgana good but few things are.

gegi
Aug 3, 2004
Butterfly Girl
I know there are a couple of otome EVNs with voice acting, and I know there are a couple of EVNs with Japanese voice acting, but I don't think there are any otome EVNs with Japanese voice acting.

gegi
Aug 3, 2004
Butterfly Girl
That has kind of been bothering me in Requiem which I still haven't finished.

I don't completely hate him as a character, though I want to smack him a lot, he has Flaws and they have created Problems. But I can't understand how the game thinks we're supposed to be okay with him having romantic feelings for a child. And this from someone who doesn't even mind storylines dealing with inappropriate relationship ages and the angst and confusion created by them, when you've interacted with someone as an equal and started to have feelings for them as an equal even though they're not. But it feels like it wants us to think this is just fine, no big deal? What? It's been so long since I played the first game that I don't remember how that issue was addressed there.

gegi
Aug 3, 2004
Butterfly Girl
Requiem (vague and non-detailed) does a decent job of explaining how Jacopo could become horribly cynical and paranoid, without actually excusing him for it, at least in the parts I've read. Like, he made some very dumb choices, and for some of the same reasons that he messed up with Maria in the railroad door era. He thought he was making the best decisions for other people, without taking the time to actually talk to them, explain himself, and find out what they needed. And then as things start to go wrong he isolates himself more and puts more pressure on himself while being bitter at the world for his own screwups. .... But yeah pfft on him having such a pure heart, that's dumb.

gegi
Aug 3, 2004
Butterfly Girl
I still wish that (the game about girls in shells which technically doesn't qualify for this thread because 18+) hadn't pretty much dropped the detective aspect in the second game in favor of more incest. Hunting a serial killer in the first game was actually interesting, if occasionally frustrating.

I've somehow made a habit of playing weird detective VNs. I've played Eve Burst Error (DON'T) and Soulslayer (okay but short) and Famicom Detective Club (the translated part 2, and it's not awful if you can tolerate retro style but I still complained a lot about the ending) and Jisei (which I can't remember much about) and probably more I can't think of right now.

gegi
Aug 3, 2004
Butterfly Girl

Be Depressive posted:

The DS had some other weird localizations like Elite Beat Agents where a translation would have sold fine but they made a whole new game just for Western audiences.

Which simply meant that many of us bought both Japanese games (you didn't need to know the language and the DS was regionfree) AND Elite Beat Agents. Best answer all around.

I honestly had the impression they made the new Western game partly because a lot of people were already importing Ouendan but this might be me overthinking it.

gegi
Aug 3, 2004
Butterfly Girl

Irritated Goat posted:

If "MESSAGE" is a problem to you, western VNs are not where you need to be

This confuses me greatly as I know a lot of western VNs and I am struggling to think of more than one or two out of hundreds that I would consider full of MESSAGEs.

Unless the Message is "I love Japan and want to shamelessly mimic it despite not really understanding what I'm talking about", because that's pretty common., especially among amateur writers.

Are we talking about Kickstarter games, maybe? Some of those do tend to have a lot of overblown marketing BS talking about how much greater their game is than any VN that has ever come before, which sometimes includes going on and on about Diversity or Player Agency or something, in ways that are often rather insulting to existing fans of the genre. I tune that kind of thing out, most of those projects never get completed anyway, and the more they talk about how revolutionary they are the more likely they are to just take the money and run. (There was a famous example of that but I can't remember the title.)

Are we talking about "overpoliticising everything" because of the handful of Western parody games where you can date Trump or Hitler?

Basically, I have no idea what your reference point is.

gegi
Aug 3, 2004
Butterfly Girl

Klingon w Bowl Cut posted:

imo Western VNs aren't political enough. It's a terrible shame that the ISIS dating sim didn't reach its funding goal.

I could never tell if they were actually serious about making that game or just trolling.

Though if you're into 'political humor' games, along with the hitler and trump ones, there's the North Korea game: https://store.steampowered.com/app/512060/Stay_Stay_Democratic_Peoples_Republic_of_Korea/

gegi
Aug 3, 2004
Butterfly Girl

Feels Villeneuve posted:

I don't really like "everything is political" because it leads to dumb rhetorical gotchas like "well is puyo puyo political" but it'd be better to say that you can't understand art without the cultural context of the creator or the player, ty folks


(to put it another way its an argument that should be a starting point, and not a punchline to end discussion)

It's an oversimplification because yeah some games have no story at all, but it's usually an attempt to try and break through the blindspots in people's heads where they don't recognise that what they see as normal and no statement whatsoever is NOT in fact normal to everyone else in the world.

(Not lecturing you because you know this, going off on the subject because someone else in the thread didn't seem to.)

An author who was raised in a strict Southern family, taught to call all adults ma'am and sir, and given the belt every time he misbehaved, is probably going to write a very different depiction of childhood life than some others would, and not necessarily think he was delivering any kind of message when he showed that. You can even imagine it leaking into a game as a choice where you "have" to wallop someone or else they go wild and bad end, and that this would seem totally reasonable to some players and utterly horrifying to others.

Many of the most "wtf" moments in japanese VNs are not things that come across as being intended as statements, but are said just casually, like the author took them for granted. (Of course, there ARE japanese games that talk about gender roles and gay rights and so on as well.)

As for the VN audience in the west being female, it absolutely depends WHICH VN audience and how you ask. There's been big swings back and forth. Certain sections of the fandom skew very female, and for a while there were even articles being published talking about how VNs were obviously an inherently female medium - like books, the author said, because reading is feminine and men are too active and vital to sit and read things. (?) Then the western market shifted to allow more 18+ games to be sold and now people are yammering on again about how VNs are a male thing and always have been.

Mobile phone VNs in the west skew heavily female afaik. Console releases I'm not sure but I think there's a higher proportion of otome on the Vita than there is on PC?

gegi
Aug 3, 2004
Butterfly Girl
was it not, however, also hideously 3D?

gegi
Aug 3, 2004
Butterfly Girl

NikkolasKing posted:

But I've never played a VN about dating girls. Is there a name for that or is it just the default? Do they tend to be more explicit than otome? And I don't just mean fanservice because I notice a lot of works - including otome - that are heavy on fanservice but stop short of actual sex or sexual relationships.

Games where you play a male character dating girls are often called "bishoujo games". (I don't speak japanese but as I understand it, otome means maiden and bishoujo means pretty girl, so they're not very helpful, these terms).

The vast majority of bishoujo games in circulation were originally made for the PC market and contain explicit porn. Highly popular ones would sometimes be ported to console and therefore have a stripped-down version be created that removed the sex scenes, sometimes adding new content to make up for what's missing, which would then lead to a PC re-release of a deluxe version that contains the new content AND the sex scenes. Most of the time, if you find a high-budget VN with a male lead and female romance options, a porn version of it exists somewhere. It's not necessarily the version you're playing, though.

The translation companies have gone back and forth a lot on whether to try and bring over games uncensored, whether to try and cut them down so that no one can possibly object, whether to sell two very different versions for different prices, whether to sell the non-porn version and charge extra for the porn patch, whether to sell a game that's basically an empty shell and distribute a patch for you to put back the game (which is full of porn)... Basically, it's such a minefield that it's hard to give general advice for how to find games if you're not interested in the porn parts, because how it works varies case-by-case.

If you are looking for a sweet romantic experience with girls I might suggest Princess Evangile. The Steam version is porn-free. It's not a world-shaking masterpiece and the choices are pointless, but it's sweet, romantic, inspires good feelings, the girls are cute. High production values, good voice acting. If you have no experience with bishoujo games I think it's a solid grounding point.



A game where you're a female character dating girls would just be a yuri game. Yuri as a genre tends to be more chaste and more focused on one true couple, less of the harem of options. Harem-of-options games exist, but they seem to be the minority. There are not a lot of high-budget Japanese yuri games available in English. Western-written yuri games vary wildly. If you're interested in those it's a separate question.

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gegi
Aug 3, 2004
Butterfly Girl

AG3 posted:

I hate instant text, but I also don't like the text moving slower than I read, so in VNs that have a setting for it I usually set the text speed to the fastest it will go without being instant. Dunno why, but the new text instantly appearing on the screen just grates on me. I need to see the text gradually appearing on the screen, even if it is so fast it might as well be instant.

this is also me, slow is annoying but instant feels bad. that little bit of motion of the text appearing is juicy.

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