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Guy A. Person
May 23, 2003



Based on these quotes:

quote:

to trust a boss when he complimented me and not cringe when he asked for my number

quote:

Otherwise youíre falling into the Mike Pence School of Gender Relations that says men canít be trusted with womenís phone numbers.

it does sound like there was some telephone based harassment. And the Pence allusion makes me think that it wasn't just calling to berate/bother her with requests about the show.

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Kuiperdolin
Sep 5, 2011

to ride eternal, shiny and chrome

THUNDERDOME LOSER 2022


She raped his family on the beach.

Steve Vader
Apr 29, 2005

Everyone's Playing!



Klungar posted:

https://twitter.com/meganganz/status/919957356624076800

Based on the above tweet thread of her's, it seems that Harmon had a thing for her and sent her inappropriate/harassing messages on her phone and kept trying to work one-on-one with her at his house despite her objections, going as far to say "Relax, Ganz. I'm not gonna rape you."

Yeesh, I didn't see that one.

How bad do we need that movie, then?

Escobarbarian
Jun 18, 2004




Grimey Drawer

Whoís HW

Guy A. Person
May 23, 2003



I'm guessing George Herbert Walker Bush

Arist
Feb 13, 2012

who, me?




Oven Wrangler


Harvey Weinstein, almost certainly

Guy A. Person
May 23, 2003



Arist posted:

Harvey Weinstein, almost certainly

Oh yeah whoops

Dreylad
Jun 19, 2001


I remember Ganz tweeting something about the working conditions in the Community writer's room after season 2 ended and while she played the "Harmon is an insane boss!" off for laughs then, it already hinted that he was pretty awful.

thebardyspoon
Jun 30, 2005


He's been well known to be really hard to work with for years hasn't he? I remember hearing about bullying/screaming/weird outbursts and suchlike when I first got into Community, back around season 4. Not a stretch to picture him awkwardly asking someone on staff out, being shot down and then his toxicity becoming even worse.

Guy Mann
Mar 28, 2016
Probation
Can't post for 10 years!


thebardyspoon posted:

He's been well known to be really hard to work with for years hasn't he? I remember hearing about bullying/screaming/weird outbursts and suchlike when I first got into Community, back around season 4. Not a stretch to picture him awkwardly asking someone on staff out, being shot down and then his toxicity becoming even worse.

Harmon himself has casually recalled that in the early days of Community he would show up to the writers room in a bathrobe and greet them with "'sup faggots?"

esperterra
Mar 24, 2010

SHINee's back






Even back on the DVD commentaries for Community, all the jokes about him being a drunk rear end in a top hat boss I took 100% seriously tbh.

Steve Vader
Apr 29, 2005

Everyone's Playing!



Dreylad posted:

I remember Ganz tweeting something about the working conditions in the Community writer's room after season 2 ended and while she played the "Harmon is an insane boss!" off for laughs then, it already hinted that he was pretty awful.

Yeah, I remember her saying something about feeling shell shocked all the time and crying in her shower, but I'd taken it to mean that he was slave-drivey and hypercritical and less that he was being creep-sleaze. Now it's both!

prefect
Sep 11, 2001

No one, Woodhouse.
No one.






Dead Man’s Band

I hope Harmontown is back on this weekend. :pray:

Macdeo Lurjtux
Jul 5, 2011

BRRREADSTOOORRM!


Steve Vader posted:

Yeah, I remember her saying something about feeling shell shocked all the time and crying in her shower, but I'd taken it to mean that he was slave-drivey and hypercritical and less that he was being creep-sleaze. Now it's both!

There were a few behind the scenes clips for season 1 that I don't know if they made it into the DVD's. One of which was Harmon calling Ganz into his office for some script rework and when she walks in he slams the script out of her hands, screams in her face, and then starts laughing hysterically.

He seems to have reflected on, and improved his behavior, but Community Dan Harmon was the epitome of the guy that doesn't get that bullying people "ironically" still involves you being a poo poo head.

Pepe Silvia Browne
Jan 1, 2007

I won GACHADOME and all I got was this... uh, thing..?


Macdeo Lurjtux posted:

He seems to have reflected on, and improved his behavior, but Community Dan Harmon was the epitome of the guy that doesn't get that bullying people "ironically" still involves you being a poo poo head.

That's a great way of putting it. You're still making someone the butt of your joke, it's just a slightly different punchline. "haha can you imagine if I was SERIOUSLY making this a toxic work environment and not doing it as a joke?"

KVeezy3
Aug 18, 2005

Airport Music for Black Folk


The episode that was the biggest indicator of Harmon's weird thoughts about relationships with women was the Blade episode. The way he depicted Britta's psychology with Blade vs. Troy was bizarre and served to engage in male fantasy. Which was a shame, because I thought the Vaughn and Britta/Annie relationships were depicted pretty well for a comedic sitcom.

KVeezy3 fucked around with this message at 17:25 on Jan 7, 2018

Sefer
Sep 2, 2006
Not supposed to be here today

thebardyspoon posted:

He's been well known to be really hard to work with for years hasn't he?

What immediately comes to mind is that bit from the Harmontown documentary where Sarah Silverman says she's his biggest fan and still fired him.

PostNouveau
Sep 3, 2011

VY till I die


Grimey Drawer

So Dan talked about what he did to Megan Ganz on his podcast

https://twitter.com/meganganz/status/951373399929978881
https://twitter.com/meganganz/status/951373403625177088
https://twitter.com/meganganz/status/951373406141743105

http://www.harmontown.com/2018/01/episode-dont-let-him-wipe-or-flush/

I thought it was interesting he said he destroyed the show, so we finally know the real reason he got booted. Knowing all that, I wonder why the gently caress they brought him back.

Escobarbarian
Jun 18, 2004




Grimey Drawer

Wow, thatís really good of her.

prefect
Sep 11, 2001

No one, Woodhouse.
No one.






Dead Man’s Band

Escobarbarian posted:

Wow, thatís really good of her.

Listening to Dan's apology/confession is pretty rough (he gets close to crying at least once), but I'm glad she likes it. Makes me believe things can work out okay sometimes. :unsmith:

Escobarbarian
Jun 18, 2004




Grimey Drawer

I was ready to take it with a pinch of salt because heís always been good at being self-effacing without learning from his mistakes but nah thatís a damned good confession.

Vegetable
Oct 22, 2010



Is there a transcript of it somewhere

ElCondemn
Aug 7, 2005




Escobarbarian posted:

I was ready to take it with a pinch of salt because heís always been good at being self-effacing without learning from his mistakes but nah thatís a damned good confession.

I think people like him do a lot of ďnot thinking about itĒ, so while he may be remorseful and mean it I think heís likely to do something like this again. I enjoy Dan but heís a pretty flawed guy. I donít think people should be congratulating him for what he did, but they should take his advice and look at themselves critically and think about what theyíre doing.

PostNouveau
Sep 3, 2011

VY till I die


Grimey Drawer

Vegetable posted:

Is there a transcript of it somewhere

https://www.spin.com/2018/01/dan-harmon-sexually-harassment-community-writer-megan-ganz-podcast/

quote:

ďI was attracted to an employee. I really want to be really careful about that language because a huge part of the problem is a culture of feeling things that you think are unique and significant because they are happening to you and saying things like ĎI had feelings forí and ĎI fell forí and all these things. The most clinical way I can put it in fessing up to my crimes is that I was attracted to a writer I had power over because I was a show runner and I knew enough to know that these feelings were bad news.

That was easy enough to know. I knew that they ran the risk of undercutting peopleís faith in my judgement, her faith in her talent, the other writersí respect for me, the entire production, the audience. I knew I wasnít doing anybody any favors by feeling these things and so I did the cowardly, easiest, laziest thing you can do with feelings like that and didnít deal with them and in not dealing with them I made everybody else deal with them, especially her. Flirty, creepy, everything other than overt enough to constitute betraying your live-in girlfriend who youíre going home to every night, who is actually smart enough and respectful enough to ask you Ďdo you have feelings for that young writer that youíre talking about, that youíre paying all this attention to?í and saying to her Ďno,í because the trick is if you lie to yourself, you can lie to everybody. Itís really easy.

And so thatís what I continued to do telling myself and anybody that threatened to confront me with it that if you thought what I was doing was creepy or sexist or unprofessional it was because you were the sexist or jealous. I was supporting this person, Iím a mentor, Iím a feminist, itís your problem, not mine. Youíre the one who actually is seeing things through that lens.

And so I let myself keep doing it and itís not as if this person didnít repeatedly communicate to me the idea that what I was doing was divesting her of a recourse to integrity. I just didnít hear it because it didnít profit me to hear it, and this was, after all, happening to me, right? After a season of playing it that way, I broke up with my girlfriend, who I had lied to the whole time, while lying to myself. Lied to her about why I was breaking up with her, because I thought that would make having inappropriate feelings for a co-worker appropriate if I wasnít involved.

I want you to be the one to examine this and every step of the way decide for yourself where Iím making mistakes. I donít want to explain to you what Iíve learned. I want you to look at this and I want it to sound relatively unremarkable to you, because thatís the danger. I broke up with my girlfriend and then I went right full steam into creeping on my employee. Now it was even less appropriate, after all. Now I wasnít in danger of being a bad person. After that season, I got overt about my feelings after it wrapped. I said ĎI love you,í and she said the same thing she had been saying the entire time, in one language or another, ĎPlease, donít you understand that focusing on me like this, preferring me like this, liking me like this, I canít say no to it and when you do it, it makes me unable to know whether Iím good at my job.'Ē

And because I finally got to the point where I said to her ĎI love youí because thatís what I thought it was, when you target somebody for two years. And it was therefore rejected that way, I was humiliated. So, I continued to do the cowardly thing. I continued to do the selfish thing. Now I wanted to teach her a lesson. I wanted to show her that if she didnít like being liked in that way then, oh boy, she should get over herself. After all, if youíre just going to be a writer then this is how Ďjust writersí get treated. And that was probably the darkest of it all. Iím going to assume when she tweets about it and refers to Ďtraumaí thatís probably it. I drank. I took pills. I crushed on her and resented her for not reciprocating it and the entire time I was the one writing her paychecks and in control of whether she stayed or went and whether she felt good about herself or not, and said horrible things. Just treated her cruelly, pointedly, things I would never, ever would have done if she had been male and if I had never had those feelings for her.

And I lied to myself the entire time about it. And I lost my job. I ruined my show. I betrayed the audience. I destroyed everything. And I damaged her internal compass. And I moved on. Iíve never done it before and I will never do it again, but I certainly wouldnít have been able to do it if I had any respect for women. On a fundamental level, I was thinking about them as different creatures. I was thinking about the ones that I liked as having some special role in my life and I did it all by not thinking about it. So, I just want to say, in addition to obviously being sorry, but thatís really not the important thing, I want to say I did it by not thinking about it and I got away with it by not thinking about it. And if she hadnít mentioned something on Twitter, I would have continued to not have to not think about it, although I did walk around with my stomach in knots about it, but I wouldnít have had to talk about it.

The last and most important thing I can say is just think about it. No matter who you are at work, no matter where you work, in what field youíre in, no matter what position you have over, under, or side by side with somebody, just think about it. Because if you donít think about it, youíre going to get away with not thinking about it and you can cause a lot of damage that is technically legal and hurts everybody.

And I think weíre living in a good time right now because weíre not gonna to get away with it anymore. If we can make it part of our culture that we think about it and possibly talk about it, then maybe we can get to a better place where that stuff doesnít happen.

So thatís it. Please donít hurt her. Please donít make this worse on anybody but me.

DivisionPost
Jun 28, 2006

Nobody likes you.
Everybody hates you.
You're gonna lose.

Smile, you fuck.


PostNouveau posted:

I thought it was interesting he said he destroyed the show, so we finally know the real reason he got booted. Knowing all that, I wonder why the gently caress they brought him back.

Easy: Megan Ganz left.

hosed up when you think about it, but there you go.

Guy Mann
Mar 28, 2016
Probation
Can't post for 10 years!


DivisionPost posted:

Easy: Megan Ganz left.

hosed up when you think about it, but there you go.

Also because Joel McHale and other cast members demanded he be brought back and threatened to walk if they didn't, which is also pretty hosed if they were aware of all this.

Escobarbarian
Jun 18, 2004




Grimey Drawer

Yeah this doesnít make McHale look great

The timeline on his story is a little off because they only worked together for two years, but hey, dude was drunk 24/7, not surprised he wasnít able to keep track of time

Klungar
Feb 12, 2008

Klungo make bessst ever video game, 'Hero Klungo Sssavesss Teh World.'


Escobarbarian posted:

Yeah this doesnít make McHale look great

The timeline on his story is a little off because they only worked together for two years, but hey, dude was drunk 24/7, not surprised he wasnít able to keep track of time

How so? He mentioned his behavior over two seasons, presumably 2 and 3.

Escobarbarian
Jun 18, 2004




Grimey Drawer

He specifies that they had been working together for two years before he admitted his feelings and then began being resentful, which doesnít really add up. Maybe he just meant ďa yearĒ because you can definitely see it in certain moments of Ganzís s3 scripts aka Script Supervisor Annie

Last Chance
Dec 31, 2004



Escobarbarian posted:

The timeline on his story is a little off because they only worked together for two years, but hey, dude was drunk 24/7, not surprised he wasnít able to keep track of time

Huh?

Escobarbarian posted:

He specifies that they had been working together for two years before he admitted his feelings and then began being resentful, which doesnít really add up. Maybe he just meant ďa yearĒ because you can definitely see it in certain moments of Ganzís s3 scripts aka Script Supervisor Annie
????

prefect
Sep 11, 2001

No one, Woodhouse.
No one.






Dead Man’s Band

I'm not sure I buy the idea that this is why he was fired.

Escobarbarian
Jun 18, 2004




Grimey Drawer


Thereís literally a transcript you can read on this page

Pepe Silvia Browne
Jan 1, 2007

I won GACHADOME and all I got was this... uh, thing..?


prefect posted:

I'm not sure I buy the idea that this is why he was fired.

Well, it could be that some executives at either NBC or Sony knew about this, but then the Chevy voicemail thing happened and they saw it as "let's use this as our out before this draws any further attention to that toxic work environment and the story goes from being about two crotchety old men yelling at each other to being about one of our showrunners harassing one of his writers."

In It For The Tank
Feb 17, 2011

But I've yet to figure out a better way to spend my time.


prefect posted:

I'm not sure I buy the idea that this is why he was fired.

Yeah, him harassing Ganz is terrible but I don't think Sony would drop him for that (sad as that is to say). It seems far more likely the reasons are still what they were at the time he was fired: the show was struggling for ratings, it ran into frequent productions delays because Harmon couldn't produce scripts in time, and he was having a high-profile spat with Chevy. Although the latter reason would provide a convenient smokescreen to cover up his harassment of one of the writing staff.

prefect
Sep 11, 2001

No one, Woodhouse.
No one.






Dead Man’s Band

Pepe Silvia Browne posted:

Well, it could be that some executives at either NBC or Sony knew about this, but then the Chevy voicemail thing happened and they saw it as "let's use this as our out before this draws any further attention to that toxic work environment and the story goes from being about two crotchety old men yelling at each other to being about one of our showrunners harassing one of his writers."

I doubt people in Hollywood cared back then.

Last Chance
Dec 31, 2004



Escobarbarian posted:

Thereís literally a transcript you can read on this page

Oh no, I listened to the podcast, I still don't understand what you're talking about

Escobarbarian
Jun 18, 2004




Grimey Drawer

Last Chance posted:

Oh no, I listened to the podcast, I still don't understand what you're talking about

quote:

And because I finally got to the point where I said to her ĎI love youí because thatís what I thought it was, when you target somebody for two years. And it was therefore rejected that way, I was humiliated. So, I continued to do the cowardly thing. I continued to do the selfish thing.

Sorry but I honestly donít understand which part of what I said is confusing. He clearly states they were working together for two years before he told her he loved her, even though they only worked together for that period of time in total.

Last Chance
Dec 31, 2004



Escobarbarian posted:

Sorry but I honestly donít understand which part of what I said is confusing. He clearly states they were working together for two years before he told her he loved her, even though they only worked together for that period of time in total.

Ok I understand now. It's been a long day, sorry. Yeah, it's before the transcript starts but Harmon does throw around the wrong dates (he says 2009 at some point) and he clearly doesn't know 100% of the timeline himself, so you're right.

PostNouveau
Sep 3, 2011

VY till I die


Grimey Drawer

Alright, Joel McHale has a Netflix show now that's basically just The Soup.

So they've got McHale, Brie and Rash on the payroll now.

Do the movie, Netflix. It'll cost 1/20th of what Bright cost.

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brocked
Oct 25, 2005

All shall love me and despair!


They all appear in the first episode, too

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