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Okay, posters on the various mystery threads over the last few years have raised ideas and facts about the Dyatlov Pass Incident. From now on this will be your one-stop shop for Soviet-era bona fide mystery The Dyatlov Pass Incident. What is it? In January 1959 a group of 10 young hikers entered the Ural Mountains, central Russia to hike a peak. They were experienced winter travellers, had reasonable equipment (for the era), had prepared well and had fixed objectives. One turned back at the last minute due to ill health (four days before the incident). He was the only survivor. The bodies of the nine other hikers were discovered around their camp site 10km from the peak they approached. Key sites are: Tent Large tent, cut open from inside. Contents undisturbed. It is out of sight from people in the other locations. Searchers found 6-8 (pos. 9) sets of tracks heading down towards the woods, 1.5km away. (important: No tracks approached the tent so none of the party returned to the tent. Why not?) Cedar 1.5km downhill from tent. Scene of a bonfire. Two bodies here. Ravine A deep gully with 4 bodies found at the bottom. A mat of branches had been made here. Close to cedar. During good weather it is easy to communicate by calling between the cedar and the ravine. Cache 2km back on the trail was a cache of spare gear (incl. boots and 2 skis), food and firewood that the team left before their push for the summit. Key dates are: 23 Jan. 1959 - party leaves Sverdlovsk. 28 Jan. Yudin departs. 31 Jan. Last diary entries. 1 Feb. Make cache, travel 2km, camp, last photos. Pathology reports they died 6-8 hours after last meal (presumed approx. 3-5pm 1 Feb.). Investigators conclude that due to the semi-dressed (and bootless) states of bodies the immediate evacuation took place at precisely the point when the team was preparing its supper and changing into dry clothes for bed. Key data: Altitude of camp, approx. 1000m; weather: strong wind, snow, -6 to -10 deg. cel. (late 1 Feb.), -29 (4-5 am 2 Feb.); sunset: I have seen this given as 3pm, 4.58pm and 5.06pm (any astronomy buffs itt?), co-ordinates for tent: 61 45' 39"N 59 25' 59"E Who were they? Igor DYATLOV (23) Leader. Place and cause of death: Between cedar and tent, heading back to tent. Hypothermia. Body disturbed.* Yuri DOROSHENKO, (21) Cedar. Hypothermia. Body disturbed. LYUDA Dubinina (20) Ravine. Crush injuries, internal bleeding. Body disturbed. Alexander KOLEVATOV (24) Ravine. Hypothermia (w/ some violent injuries). Due to his lack of severe trauma injuries and well-dressed state (still no boots), he is presumed to have been the last to die. Body undisturbed. ZINA Kolmogorova (22) Between cedar and tent, heading back to tent. Hypothermia (w/ mild fall injuries). Body undisturbed. GEORGI Krivonischenko (23) Cedar. Hypothermia, burn injuries (from bonfire). Body disturbed. RUSTIK Slobodin (23) Closest to tent. Pulmonary edema caused by hypothermia with brain injury (blow). Body undisturbed. KOLYA Thibeaux-Brignolles (23) Ravine. Cerebral & pulmonary edema due to severe head injury. Body disturbed. Semyon/Sasha ZOLOTARYOV (37) Ravine. Blood loss due to severe rib injuries. Body undisturbed (with Kolevatov) Yuri YUDIN (21) Left early. Died 2013. * "Disturbed" means searchers considered the body to have been moved or partially stripped for warm clothing after death. E: Investigators and writers assume bodies were moved to check for signs of life and shelter/clothe/unclothe bodies by other party members not outsiders. No bodies were nude or close to being nude. What is the mystery? Take your pick, there are a number of puzzles: * Why were the bodies of the party partially dressed? None had full clothing, none had boots, few had hats. They were wearing mismatched clothes. This was not apparently due to paradoxical warming experienced by hypothermia victims. * Why did they abandon the safety and shelter of their tent? * Why did they cut themselves out of the tent rather than leaving through the exit? (Exit was unblocked when searchers found it.) * Why did they not return due to bitter weather and inadequate clothing? * Why was radioactive traces discovered on some of their clothing but not their bodies and equipment? * Although 5 of the 9 died of hypothermia, 4 had serious injuries variously described as crush and blow, blunt force trauma injuries. How did these happen? * How did the group make towards the nearest visible tall tree when most authorities suggest it was dark on a night when the moon had not yet risen? * Why did someone go to the trouble of making a mat of branches in the ravine to insulate from the cold, yet none of the bodies in the ravine were found on it? * Kolevatov was a fanatic diary writer yet no diary of his was found. He was found with the group diary in his hands but there was no entry later than an ordinary one for 30 Jan. Where was his diary? For that matter, why would someone remember to bring a diary and pencil but not stop to put on boots? * Why was a camera attached to a tripod in the tent? It wasn't carried that way. Was someone planning to photo something at the point when the tent was evacuated. (E: It seems the tripod was not actually set up in the tent, just attached and laying flat.) * What does the last photo mean? Blurred photo. What are the proposed solutions? (And why are they all compromised?) * The Official Theory  There isn't one. 5-6 deaths due to hypothermia, 3-4 deaths due to trauma injury caused by "compelling force". Cause unknown. Case unsolved. * Avalanche This idea is that an avalanche struck the camp, resulting in the crush/trauma injuries. The party then abandoned the camp and fled to the relative safety of the woods 1.5km away. Why this is bollocks: a) The tent was found undisturbed and undamaged. The floor and contents were not disturbed or crushed. b) 2 or 3 members had injuries so severe they would have been unconscious or dead within minutes, yet 7-8 (pos. 9) tracks were discovered walking away from the tent. c) The topography was bad for avalanche (relatively little snow accumulation, not steep enough). d) Searchers found no evidence of avalanche and did not cause one during 2 months of intense activity. e) No avalanches have ever been recorded in that place. e) None of the original team of searchers believed it was an avalanche and many of them were experienced skiers, climbers and local hunters. f) Jesus, how many reasons do you need? * Fear of impending avalanche This idea is that the party feared an avalanche and abandoned immediately (hence cut out of tent to get away quickly) Why this is bollocks: Ermm... I can't see why this one isn't feasible. Although the party had snow experience they had never camped at this altitude or in these conditions. They may have panicked and evacuated even though there was no actual risk of avalanche. Anyone see a flaw in this? They left the tent calmly (footprints) which goes against "panic idea" but apart from that... * Infrasound panic This theory suggests that infrasound waves caused by strong winds blowing over the ridge nearby caused feelings of panic, fear, nausea, depression and possibly breathing problems. This caused them to panic and act irrationally, pushing them to abandon their tent. Scientists confirm this theory is tenable. Kuntsechev of the Dyatlov Pass Organisation supports it. See Eichar for details. Why this is bollocks: Well, there is nothing specifically about this theory which is wrong or unbelievable (apart from the fact no one has experienced this phenomenon at the site, but then it is a rarely visited location so observing the phenomenon there would be a freak coincidence). The main problem with the theory is that it doesn't explain a lot of the actions after the departure from the camp. Also, the panic theory is undermined by the orderly, slow and careful exit from the camp area. * Mansi attack This theory suggests local tribesman attacked the team. Why this is bollocks: a) No sign of tracks approaching tent. b) No sign of anyone accompanying the party. c) No history of Mansi attacks on hikers, there or anywhere else. d) No sign of theft or ransacking of contents of tent. e) No sign of fight in tent. f) Investigators did not believe it. * Animal attack This theory suggests an attack by a bear or wolf caused the group to flee. Why this is bollocks: a) No sign of tracks approaching tent. b) No history of animal attacks on hikers there. d) No sign of fight in tent. f) Why would the party leave it's shelter and defensible area to run away to the woods? g) Investigators did not believe it. * Criminal attack This theory suggests a group of escaped convicts/disturbed poachers/robbers/local loggers caused the group to flee. Why this is bollocks: a) No sign of tracks approaching tent. b) No sign of anyone accompanying the party. c) No history of criminal attacks on hikers. d) No sign of theft or ransacking of contents of tent. e) No sign of fight in tent. f) This is an isolated spot: there is very little reason for anyone to be in the area. Local Mansi hunt there and a handful of hikers go there. g) Investigators did not believe it. * KGB attack KGB attacked for reasons! Why this is bollocks: a) No sign of tracks approaching tent. b) No sign of anyone accompanying the party. d) No sign of tent being disturbed. e) No sign of fight in tent. f) Why? The USSR was pretty much a police state. If they wanted to arrest someone it was pretty easy. Sensitive areas were regularly cordoned off and there was no reason to chase a group of hikers in a region not sensitive for reasons of state security. g) The investigation was pretty thorough but also inconsistent. They asked for a lot of outside help and came to no firm conclusion. It was conducted by military authorities not KGB ones. But, frankly, if you want it to be KGB attack, then all of this "evidence" and the "facts" are all part of the conspiracy, right guys? * Internal dispute/fight There was some disharmony that resulted in violence between party members (2 party members were female, 7 male). Why this is bollocks: Well, this one seems to have some credibility but: a) Evidence of Yudin and all other observers was that the group was harmonious and there was no serious friction between the members. b) There were no drugs taken and there was only a single hipflask of alcohol, which was found by searchers (and then promptly drunk by them!  ) c) No alcohol in blood in pathology reports. d) Apart from 2 or 3 unexplained injuries there was no evidence of fighting. The crush injuries were too serious to have been due to fighting. e) The group left tent as a team. f) No sign of blood or disruption in tent. g) No sign of sexual activity in pathology report or analysis of tent. h) Dyatlov was a tough leader and he wouldn't have let any violence occur. * Secret weapons testing The team happened to be in the area where a secret weapon was being tested. This caused the trauma injuries. The team panicked and fled. For what it's worth Ivanov (chief investigator) said in the 1990s that this was his hunch - no evidence though. Why this is bollocks: a) Why severe and localised injuries to some members (chest and head mainly) but not wider injuries and some uninjured members? b) Why no damage to tent or contents? c) No official record of such tests ("but its secret durr...") despite all sorts of secret Soviet projects being revealed 1990 onwards. d) Vacuum bomb technology developed late 1960s and causes different injuries. * UFOs Lights were seen in the region. Our alien friends perhaps? Why this is bollocks: 1) Lights not seen on 1-2 Feb. 2) Lights seen on 17 Feb. and 31 March - coinciding exactly with verified missile test from nearby Baikonur space base. * a..n. other ....fill it in yourself! Eichar, Donnie: Dead Mountain Atmospheric and well-written, many new photos and some original research. Frequent misspellings by non-Russian author. A number of important facts left out. Theory: Infrasound Lobatcheva, Irena: Dyatlov Pass Keeps Its Secret Terrible translation of a largely sound book. Lots of translations of data and some plausible chatroom theories (Russian). Theory: Avalanche Brian Dunning's Skeptoid podcast: Theory: Avalanche Wanted! If you speak Russian you could do us a valuable service by translating documents and summarising Russian-language chatroom theories.  If you go searching on the internet and Wikipedia you will find some mildly gory NWS images. So, sensitive souls be warned. You are also quite possibly going to get nightmares about this, so don't read this late at night. I'm serious.  Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyatlov_Pass_incident Previous PYF thread which contains Dyatlov chat: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3631148&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=1 Suggestions for OP data welcome! EDIT: Posting photos is welcome.  Search photos, diagrams, maps, scans, etc. all fine but all pathology or even body photos please tag "NWS" and link, don't post as inline images I won't link any NWS photos myself and frankly I don't think they help explain anything, so I don't encourage posting those.
Josef K. Sourdust has a new favorite as of 12:00 on Mar 15, 2015 |
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Mar 14, 2015 21:01
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They probably died from cold + exposure.
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Mar 14, 2015 21:12
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Hypothermia and lies.
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Mar 14, 2015 21:39
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They died reading the way too long OP. They also clicked all the links and read them
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Mar 14, 2015 21:49
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amityville anus posted:They died reading the way too long OP. Both of the links? My God, I'm sorry.... 
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Mar 14, 2015 21:50
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Dracula.
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Mar 15, 2015 00:05
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Josef K. Sourdust posted:* Why were the bodies of the party partially dressed? None had full clothing, none had boots, few had hats. They were wearing mismatched clothes. This was not apparently due to paradoxical warming experienced by hypothermia victims. Maybe they had a mad gaysex orgy and the camera was set up to take naughty pictures. The radioctiveness was from all the repressed gay particles being released.
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Mar 15, 2015 00:11
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grate deceiver posted:mad gaysex orgy They were hungry, tired, smelly and freezing cold. If you think those are suitable conditions for a mad gaysex orgy that tells us more about your sexlife than theirs, sir. 
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Mar 15, 2015 00:35
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You're participating in garbage mythmaking and exploiting the deaths of nine people for what amounts to creepypasta. Ooh are you gonna post details added to the story after the fact and have widdle nightmares?
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Mar 15, 2015 00:43
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:You're participating in garbage mythmaking and exploiting the deaths of nine people for what amounts to creepypasta. Ooh are you gonna post details added to the story after the fact and have widdle nightmares? Did you read the OP where I was critical of mythmaking, the parts where I used only facts from two intelligent published studies by considered authors? Do you think I added the warning about nightmares maybe because a number of people have said on the mystery thread (where this subject has come up and where I am a regular poster) that the story was disturbing? Have you read my contributions to that thread where I was genuinely curious about a number of mysteries and not salacious? Did you not read my rap sheet or post history? Did you not see the thread I started on polar exploration in TBB? Did you not see I have never commented on SA (or anywhere else) about murder or torture or anything like that? No, perhaps not. If I'll close this thread with apologies if people think it isn't suitable.
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Mar 15, 2015 01:10
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Oh yeah let's investigate something that happened almost sixty yeas ago in a near dystopia that did everything to try to suppress investigating of any kind. I'm sure we'll find all sorts of new evidence that hasn't already been examined, compromised, manipulated or fabricated. Bunch of kids went in the woods, something happened, they died from hypothermia, animals got at the bodies. Take off the OMG SOVIETS! poo poo and it's no surprise to anyone who's even slightly outdoorsy. Then add a few decades of Chinese telephone and you end up with people like the OP who refuse to accept any rational explanation. So anyway I vote aliens.
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Mar 15, 2015 01:29
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Josef K. Sourdust posted:Did you read the OP where I was critical of mythmaking, the parts where I used only facts from two intelligent published studies by considered authors? Do you think I added the warning about nightmares maybe because a number of people have said on the mystery thread (where this subject has come up and where I am a regular poster) that the story was disturbing? Have you read my contributions to that thread where I was genuinely curious about a number of mysteries and not salacious? Did you not read my rap sheet or post history? Did you not see the thread I started on polar exploration in TBB? Did you not see I have never commented on SA (or anywhere else) about murder or torture or anything like that? No, perhaps not. Whoops, I meant deaths of nine people and trauma of one more!
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Mar 15, 2015 01:59
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Josef K. Sourdust posted:They were hungry, tired, smelly and freezing cold. If you think those are suitable conditions for a mad gaysex orgy that tells us more about your sexlife than theirs, sir. quote:It is concluded that paradoxical undressing might be explained by changes in peripheral vasoconstriction in the deeply hypothermic person. It represents the last effort of the victim and is followed almost immediately by unconsciousness and death. quote:The supposition as to the cause of paradoxical undressing is that the primary defense against the cold and hypothermia is vasoconstriction of the peripheral circulation. This shunts the blood into the warm core and the skin now becomes a more effective layer of insulation. The problem is that vasoconstriction of the smooth muscles in the vasculature requires glucose and energy consumption. Vasodilation, on the other hand, is a passive process that simply requires the smooth muscles that make up the blood vessels to relax. Over time, the vasoconstricted vessels begin to run out of energy (glucose) because of the poor circulation, and they fatigue and relax, thus vasodilating. This now allows the warm core-blood to re-perfuse the skin, causing a sensation of warmth. This results in the hypothermia victim feeling warm, so, they now begin to shed layers, thus the paradoxical undressing. Between the peripheral vasodilation and the loss of layers of protective clothing, their core temperature now begins to plummet and this hastens death from hypothermia. SurreptitiousMuffin has a new favorite as of 02:03 on Mar 15, 2015 |
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Mar 15, 2015 01:59
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Mar 15, 2015 02:19
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It was the rapture OP. The souls of the climbers were the only ones worthy of saving, and were taken to heaven and none of us noticed the tribulation.
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Mar 15, 2015 02:43
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FrozenVent posted:So anyway I vote aliens. Wrong! It was ghosts.
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Mar 15, 2015 03:58
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I really doubt The Ripper was in that pass.
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Mar 15, 2015 04:23
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cthulusnewzulubbq posted:I really doubt The Ripper was in that pass. How would you know?
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Mar 15, 2015 04:40
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Dr. Gitmo Moneyson posted:Wrong! It was me.
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Mar 15, 2015 04:40
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Bigfoot.
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Mar 15, 2015 05:10
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A 7-year-old Vladimir Putin massacred them all, that lovable little scamp.
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Mar 15, 2015 18:23
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Dyatlov Khomeini
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Mar 15, 2015 18:35
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First documented case of anime
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Mar 15, 2015 21:14
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To be quite frank, OP sucks at making threads. His posts are terrible and PYF Dyatlov Pass theory! is so boring it put me to sleep.
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Mar 15, 2015 23:46
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An avalanche (of shitposters) I found your thread interesting, OP - I didn't know about that before, so thanks (I guess?)
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Mar 16, 2015 00:06
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Paradoxical undressing's a hell of a thing. Sourdust, you know better than this 2spoopy rusky poo poo.
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Mar 16, 2015 02:04
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OP left out the CIA death squad theory. Some of the people in the Dyatlov's group were nuclear workers. The international situation was similar to the current Iran debacle. The U.S. was engaged in a massive campaign of espionage and sabotage to study and undermine the Soviet nuclear program.
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Mar 16, 2015 02:21
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I did this one in the Pseudoscience thread 6 years agoGWBBQ posted:If the known facts are stated concisely, there's no mystery. A bunch of hikers were caught in an avalanche, which killed several of them and caused a woman to bit off her tongue, which either rotted or was eaten by wild animals. Others were not killed immediately, but ran out of supplies, started to suffer from hypothermia, and eventually succumbed to it; at some point they had become delirious and exhibited paradoxical undressing, which is a well known symptom of hypothermia now, but was not then (the "unknown compelling force.") Due to laying out in the sun for between three weeks to two months before being found, their bodies were severely sunburned. No mention of radiation was made in initial reports, but if it were present, it would most likely have been from the thorium gas mantles in their lanterns.
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Mar 16, 2015 02:34
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Free Market Mambo posted:Paradoxical undressing's a hell of a thing. Sourdust, you know better than this 2spoopy rusky poo poo. After reading the OP, I turned the heat way down in my apartment to try to induce Paradoxical Undressing in a lady who was visiting me, and it didn't work. This thread is lies.
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Mar 16, 2015 05:04
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Broham gotta set the mood with that sweet thorium glow.
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Mar 16, 2015 12:31
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GWBBQ posted:I did this one in the Pseudoscience thread 6 years ago
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Mar 16, 2015 12:54
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There's a movie that answers the question. The answer is that present day campers are chased/murdered a bit by some Russian secret agents and chased into the bunker, wherein a couple of teleporting ghouls pick off/chase the campers into a room that has a magic timespace portal, of which the two survivors take and end up dying but being sent back in time to the time of the original incident. The Russians find the two bodies and take them into the bunker where they revive into *gasp* two teleporting ghouls, thus perpetuating the cycle. (the movie is mildly entertaining, but nothing special, it's called Devil's Pass)
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Mar 16, 2015 15:59
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The only real mystery left in this for me is why they left the tents in the first place. I'm pretty confident that once they were out of the tents panic set in for at least some of them and then hypothermia and the paradoxical undressing bit, etc. But without any damage to the tents, its hard to blame it on an avalanche especially when the rescue party saw no signs of one. It was the middle of the night, its possible they just heard some low rumbling or something like that and assumed avalanche. Was that tree the one dude climbed far enough away from the tents that he may have been trying to find them again? That may have been what caused the panic, the fact that they had gone too far from the tents and couldn't find their way back in the dark.
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Mar 16, 2015 16:01
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Basebf555 posted:The only real mystery left in this for me is why they left the tents in the first place. I'm pretty confident that once they were out of the tents panic set in for at least some of them and then hypothermia and the paradoxical undressing bit, etc. But without any damage to the tents, its hard to blame it on an avalanche especially when the rescue party saw no signs of one. It was the middle of the night, its possible they just heard some low rumbling or something like that and assumed avalanche. In the last picture they took the weather looks like absolute poo poo. It is quite possible that they had no idea what they were walking into when they began their ascent, hence they didn't really know how mild the "mountain" really was. At night a wind gust produced some kind of roar and they assumed that it was an avalanche because they assumed that the mountain they haven't yet reached was steeper than it actually was. Also, the reason why the KGB/CIA/Mansi/Poachers/Fugitives didn't leave tracks, was because they were wearing snow shoes. Do you goons even go outside? Jesus!
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Mar 17, 2015 01:43
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White Phosphorus posted:Also, the reason why the KGB/CIA/Mansi/Poachers/Fugitives didn't leave tracks, was because they were wearing snow shoes. Do you goons even go outside? Jesus! You just know there's at least one shut in conspiracy theorist who'll buy that one... (For the shut-ins in the crowd, it'd be an understatement to say snowshoes leave tracks.)
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Mar 17, 2015 03:53
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FrozenVent posted:You just know there's at least one shut in conspiracy theorist who'll buy that one... But you couldn't see them, since the tracks are also made of snow.
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Mar 17, 2015 06:07
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Josef K. Sourdust posted:You are also quite possibly going to get nightmares about this, so don't read this late at night. I'm serious. Well why didn't you put that at the top of the post, rear end in a top hat?
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Mar 17, 2015 08:08
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Mar 17, 2015 10:45
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"Paradoxical warming?" Nope, searchers found that most of the clothes were in the tent and not in the snow. In other words, not taken off while experiencing hypothermia. I think that only one body showed signs of paradoxical warming and that was simply the unbuttoning of a top garment. "Radiation" We'll get to that. Evidence 1: The Tent Searchers found: 1. Almost all of the team's possessions were in the tent, incl. clothing, diaries, boots 2. No unusual material, objects or substances were present 3. No sign of violence or theft. The axes had been left, indicating they the team were not concerned about a violent threat when they left 4. Evidence was that the team had not yet gone to bed (sheets and backpacks for headrests not yet set up) 5. A meal was being prepared by someone. Points 4. and 5. plus the fact the daily diary entries were not written means the incident happened in the early evening, after dark but before bedtime 6. The team brought only enough firewood for one meal - so they saved it for the next morning. This is a bit odd, considering they would have expected to need at least 2 hot meals (evening and morning) but they might have been planning to camp on the treeline with firewood handy 7. The team left only half-dressed, none with walking boots, only one wearing felt boots (essentially indoorwear). The only things they took with them that they may have had in their hands were: a diary (perhaps a pocket diary, don't know size), knives (again, perhaps pocketknives rather than camping knives), some torches and an armful of loose clothes (dropped near a rock band, probably lost when the carrier slipped) 8. The tent was not visible from the treeline during daylight Evidence 2: Footsteps Searchers found footsteps leading from the tent. No footsteps approached. The snow had compacted under footsteps, glazed with ice and become ice stacks as wind blew away surrounding snow - rare but not unknown. This tells us that there was fresh wet snow followed by a sudden drop in temperature (correct conditions for 1-2 Feb.) 1. Different searchers found different numbers of tracks (2-7, 8-9, 8, 8-9, 8). 2. All were bare/stockinged feet except.... 3. One searcher thought he saw one pair of heeled bootsteps in the tracks (no bodies had boots except felt boots with no soles/heels). No other searcher noted this. 4. The tracks were calm and steady and walking in one direction. They were not running or carrying a body from the positioning of the steps. They did not turn around. 5. A small group diverted for a short while (30m) then rejoined the main track 6. They headed towards the tall cedar despite agreement that it was dark at the time of the incident
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Mar 25, 2015 23:58
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Where are you getting this stuff? Any primary sources?Josef K. Sourdust posted:Evidence 2: Footsteps I've never heard of this occurring. I've been spending a lot of time walking through snow for the past thirty something years. Snow does not do that. Josef K. Sourdust posted:1. Different searchers found different numbers of tracks (2-7, 8-9, 8, 8-9, 8). It's like there were a bunch of people trampling all over the place making tracks as the searchers were taking notes. Josef K. Sourdust posted:2. All were bare/stockinged feet except.... Again you're assuming the searchers' report are reliable. Buddy picked up one of his colleague's tracks. Josef K. Sourdust posted:4. The tracks were calm and steady and walking in one direction. They were not running or carrying a body from the positioning of the steps. They did not turn around. Victims of hypothermia don't run. Honestly you're not making any sense. Have you ever spent time outdoor in the winter?
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Mar 26, 2015 00:38
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