Cities Skylines 2: a phonecall from sweden

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Cities Skylines 2: a phonecall from sweden

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Gyshall: Feb 24, 2009; Had a couple of drinks.
Saw a couple of things.

Fish Fry Andy posted:

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=409068574

Mod that removes parks from demand calculations.

So basically a fix for that bug?

# ? Mar 16, 2015 21:51

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# ? Apr 25, 2024 08:34

Chewbot: Dec 2, 2005; My Revenge Meat!

Fish Fry Andy posted:

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=409068574

Mod that removes parks from demand calculations.

Confirmed works. My commercial demand immediately rose back up to expected levels and nothing else (like land value) seems to be affected. Plus people still use the parks, score.

# ? Mar 16, 2015 21:57

Spaceman Future!: Feb 9, 2007

thats a pretty crippling "fix". Im not sure I completely understand what is going on, so tourists no longer shop while they are visiting, dont you still have demand from local residents? Is the issue just that commercial grows *less* and not that it completely stalls? I haven't seen any real reduction in commercial of my city of 80k and I have a ton of parks, just trying to figure out what is killing what for the people having trouble.

edit: maybe its not so bad? If the parks arent on the demand table, but people are still using them, how does that fix anything if time is still being spent in the parks rather than in the shops? I must be completely misunderstanding the issue here.

# ? Mar 16, 2015 21:57

zedprime: Jun 9, 2007; yospos

totalnewbie posted:

Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you or the post we're referring to was saying, but it seems to me that if you just have a normal 6-lane road, only the outside lanes get used, even though it causes traffic to be backed up and cars could be taking the middle lanes to bypass turning traffic.

However, by inserting a 2 lane road, you force cars into the middle lanes first, which then move to the outside lanes when needing to turn.

This is a flaw in the AI, as the proper behavior should be that vehicles utilize the inside lanes (i.e. through-lanes) first and only use turn lanes when necessary, until such time that the through-lanes are congested which will quickly cause congestion on the turn lanes. This would be when your road has reached its actual capacity, where traffic couldn't be improved directly by fixing that particular stretch of road. That's what I mean by improved AI and gaming the system.

I get that it's not necessary and I've got some pretty lovely intersections and on/off ramps that magically work, but it would still be nice that roads would operate at maximum capacity without having to resort to weird tricks. One benefit is that a six-lane road actually becomes much more of an improvement over a 4-lane road than the current system, where they both end up using just the outside lanes and so the extra two lanes essentially become wasted (at least, in that particular scenario).

If its a flaw with anything its with the intersection generating code, since the issue is with only the outside line being assigned as turning lanes. Note that the "right design" might still not even lane balance if the 2 lane branch roads don't have compelling reasons for cars to turn both right and left downstream.

I guess my point was the more common impact on gameplay is that every time you design an intersection, and this is easiest to see with 1 way roads, you should be asking yourself do the ins equal the outs. With the wrong trident example you have 6 lanes coming in, 2+2+6=10 lanes coming out, which the game doesn't like. In the right trident, you have 6 lanes coming in, 2+2+2=6 coming out and the lane assignments all come out making more sense.

This is also applicable in making your streets look more like the suburbia I am used to: You can have 4 lane roads going all about, and in intersections you absolutely must have better balanced you can expand out to a 6 lane. for a single stretch of road.

# ? Mar 16, 2015 21:59

turn off the TV: Aug 4, 2010; moderately annoying

Gyshall posted:

So basically a fix for that bug?

Honestly I don't think that it's a bug, more like an oversight or just a bad design decision. Apparently commercial demand competed with the number of people using parks, so the modder removed parks from commercial calculation.

# ? Mar 16, 2015 22:00

Ofaloaf: Feb 15, 2013

This is basically the right way to go about it when two highways meet, right?

# ? Mar 16, 2015 22:01

Chewbot: Dec 2, 2005; My Revenge Meat!

Ofaloaf posted:

This is basically the right way to go about it when two highways meet, right?

That highway looks like it was left out in the rain and got soggy. It's beautiful.

# ? Mar 16, 2015 22:03

TomR: Apr 1, 2003; I both own and operate a pirate ship.

Okay I think I got it. This works really well and doesn't look too terrible.

The video is from before I cleaned up some of the roads but it works the same.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zRjK05_clI

# ? Mar 16, 2015 22:03

xzzy: Mar 5, 2009

Ofaloaf posted:

This is basically the right way to go about it when two highways meet, right?

Yep, nailed it.

Every approach has two options to get to the same destination? No one ever worries about missing an exit!

LOL at the left exit, giant gently caress you to drivers. This one's different, just because!

# ? Mar 16, 2015 22:04

Ofaloaf: Feb 15, 2013

It wouldn't let me make a proper ramp on the right. :saddowns:

# ? Mar 16, 2015 22:07

Space Kablooey: May 6, 2009

Ofaloaf posted:

It wouldn't let me make a proper ramp on the right.

Delete the arm connecting to the perpendicular highway and connect there.

# ? Mar 16, 2015 22:08

turn off the TV: Aug 4, 2010; moderately annoying

Ofaloaf posted:

This is basically the right way to go about it when two highways meet, right?

I can't see any difference.

# ? Mar 16, 2015 22:08

Jonny Nox: Apr 26, 2008

So when I got to high density commercial zones, I decided that I wanted a shopping district. So I dropped 2 big blocks of high commercial around a ploppable mall. This zeroed my commercial demand for many years. Eventually it came back a little bit, but for right now I am only zoning small blocks of commercial space at a time. And then nothing till it fills in. That seems to manage it better until the park thing gets figured out.

From the one house city that PC gamer did, I bet it's because they never put in a trigger for cims to leave the park once they get there.

# ? Mar 16, 2015 22:10

skooma512: Feb 8, 2012; You couldn't grok my race car, but you dug the roadside blur.

How do you even get tourists? I have like 60 in a city of 70000.

# ? Mar 16, 2015 22:14

zedprime: Jun 9, 2007; yospos

With commercial I had dead demand after unlocking high density until I built a late first freight terminal around 20k. Since then its never bottomed out and is nearly insatiable now. I don't have any overlapping parks for the most part except my downtown where I have offices forced to level 3.

# ? Mar 16, 2015 22:17

Dr. Stab: Sep 12, 2010; 👨🏻‍⚕️🩺🔪🙀😱🙀

Fish Fry Andy posted:

I can't see any difference.

Real highways don't need a mix of left and right side exits to work properly.

# ? Mar 16, 2015 22:17

Baronjutter: Dec 31, 2007; "Tiny Trains"

skooma512 posted:

How do you even get tourists? I have like 60 in a city of 70000.

Yeah I've 100% ignored the tourism angle, I don't quite get it. My train station linking off the map gets barely anyone. My cruise ship dock is a jammed mess of 5 cruise ships inside each other that just time-out and vanish after a while but I'm not sure I see anyone ever get on or off. I've got plenty of unique plops and parks, I don't know.

Also freight terminals take a lot of uneducated workers! Keep this in mind guys. I started a new city with infinite money and started with a big ring of freight stations (seriously include a freight station in your shopping district and the shops will get goods via train!) and I didn't get any industrial buildings until it hit around 5-6k people because everyone just worked at the freight stations.

# ? Mar 16, 2015 22:18

xergm: Sep 8, 2009; The Moon is for Sissies!

I'm not really disappointed by the lack of building variety in the game. CO spent their time and effort where it was most valuable, the gameplay and the core simulation.

Any graphical flavor the game still needs will be easily made up for by the Steam workshop integration. Especially when compared to Simcity 4's mod support. Being able to add things to my game with a button click and no dependency resolving is like a dream come true.

# ? Mar 16, 2015 22:22

turn off the TV: Aug 4, 2010; moderately annoying

Dr. Stab posted:

Real highways don't need a mix of left and right side exits to work properly.

That interchange would actually work pretty well with the pathing in this game, I think. I'm not at home so I can't test it, but if you split the perpendicular, merging highway into two off ramps for each direction that should force the AI to use different lanes.

# ? Mar 16, 2015 22:22

Baronjutter: Dec 31, 2007; "Tiny Trains"

Fish Fry Andy posted:

That interchange would actually work pretty well with the pathing in this game, I think. I'm not at home so I can't test it, but if you split the perpendicular, merging highway into two off ramps for each direction that should force the AI to use different lanes.

Yeah, good traffic design in this game is weirdly all about balancing left/right/centre lanes. I hope they make things better though because I'd love to just use real-life examples/intuition rather than game a weird AI.

# ? Mar 16, 2015 22:25

Google Butt: Oct 4, 2005; Xenology is an unnatural mixture of science fiction and formal logic. At its core is a flawed assumption...

that an alien race would be psychologically human.

Baronjutter posted:

Yeah, good traffic design in this game is weirdly all about balancing left/right/centre lanes. I hope they make things better though because I'd love to just use real-life examples/intuition rather than game a weird AI.

How difficult would this be to actually implement?

# ? Mar 16, 2015 22:27

Noyemi K: Dec 9, 2012; youll always be so sleepy when youre this tiny *plompf*

I used to do 3D stuff in blender but it was usually on the cartoony side. Is it easy to get blender set up to export models for this game? I'd like to make custom props and buildings at some point.

# ? Mar 16, 2015 22:27

Baronjutter: Dec 31, 2007; "Tiny Trains"

Google Butt posted:

How difficult would this be to actually implement?

Probably very, pathing AI isn't that hard, but pathing AI that dynamically responds to its environment is really hard to get right and on "budget"(which is why abstracted simulations with agents for decoration is the superior solution!)

# ? Mar 16, 2015 22:28

Sevalar: Jul 10, 2009; HEY RADICAL LARRY HOW ABOUT A HAIRCUT

****MIC TO THE WILLY***

Made some billboards for the asset makers, I dunno how to get them into models, but I love making random texture junk!

Feel free to use.

# ? Mar 16, 2015 22:31

zedprime: Jun 9, 2007; yospos

Fish Fry Andy posted:

I can't see any difference.

For junctions of two highways I haven't needed anything more than this. By the time you are worrying about balancing traffic lanes on a highway, you probably need another highway going a completely new corner of your city.

# ? Mar 16, 2015 22:34

Noyemi K: Dec 9, 2012; youll always be so sleepy when youre this tiny *plompf*

Yeah, I think I'll be starting with props/signs just to have some variety. I'll be making some really nice ones, too. If only the internet wasn't chugging atm and I could actually get blender re-downloaded (I guess I lost it with my previous install!)

# ? Mar 16, 2015 22:34

Trilin: Dec 15, 2009; Ah! There he is!

simosimo posted:

Made some billboards for the asset makers, I dunno how to get them into models, but I love making random texture junk!

Feel free to use.

These are great.

# ? Mar 16, 2015 22:36

Cthulhuite: Mar 22, 2007; Shwmae!

Did someone post a mod for getting live feeds into Chirper? I went back through the thread but couldn't see anything.

# ? Mar 16, 2015 22:37

Sevalar: Jul 10, 2009; HEY RADICAL LARRY HOW ABOUT A HAIRCUT

****MIC TO THE WILLY***

Trilin posted:

These are great.

Thanks, I've been after a game to mod for ages and this seems perfect for my creative texture exploits.

# ? Mar 16, 2015 22:39

Books On Tape: Dec 26, 2003; Future of the franchise

simosimo posted:

Made some billboards for the asset makers, I dunno how to get them into models, but I love making random texture junk!

Feel free to use.

Requesting the James McGill billboard please.

# ? Mar 16, 2015 22:46

Synthbuttrange: May 6, 2007

Chewbot posted:

This man is a genius. And yeah this poo poo is time-consuming, I used to model environments, terrain and make lookup tables for SW:tOR and I put in about 25 hours on the Skylines mods I put up on the first page. Good for him making the best of a layoff, I'm gonna give him money.

quote:

THE ASKING COST:
I'm going to be straight with all of you. I don't intend on getting "Notch" rich off of any of this. All I want to do is be able to afford my coffee, buy my girlfriend a dinner, and pay all of my student loans off. Speaking of loans, as I speak to you today, one day before the biggest Pi day in our lifetime (3/13/2015), I HAVE OVER $80,000 LEFT IN STUDENT LOANS TO PAY OFF. Every single dollar I make could go towards paying off those loans. While I realize that my student loans are my responsibility, I can assure you that my goal right now is to get them paid.

Lol that's not a genius tho :v:

# ? Mar 16, 2015 22:47

Roobanguy: May 31, 2011

they come.

# ? Mar 16, 2015 22:49

Synthbuttrange: May 6, 2007

Noyemi K posted:

I used to do 3D stuff in blender but it was usually on the cartoony side. Is it easy to get blender set up to export models for this game? I'd like to make custom props and buildings at some point.

Yeah. I was just testing it out myself. A 1x1x1 cube imports into game real tiny, but scale it up by 400X and it fills a 1 tile square perfectly. Also remember the object's transformation is not applied, so check that they're all zero and dont transform in object mode. Apply all the transformations inside edit mode.

# ? Mar 16, 2015 22:53

Google Butt: Oct 4, 2005; Xenology is an unnatural mixture of science fiction and formal logic. At its core is a flawed assumption...

that an alien race would be psychologically human.

For someone who's never done any 3d modeling, where should I start if I just want to mess around?

# ? Mar 16, 2015 22:54

NyetscapeNavigator: Sep 22, 2003

What is this commercial/park bug everyone is mentioning?

# ? Mar 16, 2015 22:56

Dandywalken: Feb 11, 2014

NyetscapeNavigator posted:

What is this commercial/park bug everyone is mentioning?

Parks directly lower the demand for commercial zones due to having tourism slots, which for some reason feeds into the commercial demand formula. You can probably remove Commercial demand 100% by having enough parks.

# ? Mar 16, 2015 22:57

Metrication: Dec 12, 2010; Raskin had one problem: Jobs regarded him as an insufferable theorist or, to use Jobs's own more precise terminology, "a shithead who sucks".

Not my image unfortunately:

Are they wheeling it in or out?

# ? Mar 16, 2015 22:58

xzzy: Mar 5, 2009

Google Butt posted:

For someone who's never done any 3d modeling, where should I start if I just want to mess around?

"Blender noob to pro" was once the default suggestion but I'm not sure it's been updated in a long time. A second choice would be the blender tutorial hub:

http://www.blender.org/support/tutorials/

Without knowing your background it could take anywhere from a few hours to a few weeks before you get something into the game.

# ? Mar 16, 2015 22:59

Sevalar: Jul 10, 2009; HEY RADICAL LARRY HOW ABOUT A HAIRCUT

****MIC TO THE WILLY***

Too soon?

# ? Mar 16, 2015 23:05

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# ? Apr 25, 2024 08:34

Noyemi K: Dec 9, 2012; youll always be so sleepy when youre this tiny *plompf*

SynthOrange posted:

Yeah. I was just testing it out myself. A 1x1x1 cube imports into game real tiny, but scale it up by 400X and it fills a 1 tile square perfectly. Also remember the object's transformation is not applied, so check that they're all zero and dont transform in object mode. Apply all the transformations inside edit mode.

You should probably switch the scale to meters then.

At any rate, I remember how to model!

The bad news: I don't remember shortcuts for things like resetting the origin! Hooray! (boo!)

# ? Mar 16, 2015 23:07

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