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SunAndSpring posted:I wonder if that respec option is for all difficulties or if it'll be locked off for Path of the Damned or Expert Mode or something. I'm betting it won't be available in the Expert Mode. PotD just changes encounters, not rules.
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Jul 16, 2015 09:31
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Oh good, a respec option. Screw all of those crazies who insist that re-rolling the entire game should be the only way to fix a single mistake during leveling up.
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Jul 16, 2015 10:57
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Was it ComicCon or GameCon when we're supposed to get more details on The White March (like a release date) ? When is/was it? I figure September for the release date, that'd be 6 months after the original release and that sounds like a good number. E: evilmiera posted:Good thing I'm going back to Uni soon or I'd be worrying how I could hold out until this is released. After Triple Crown Solo I wasn't sure how I could keep challenging myself, beyond switching classes of course. Maybe try it with a monk or other tough class like ranger? Which guide did you follow? I've watched about half of Sebastian Orth's Rogue run and it seemed doable. Does it work to copy your save and copy it back if you die (I realize this is cheating, I'm just asking for a friend) ? Furism fucked around with this message at 15:32 on Jul 16, 2015 |
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Jul 16, 2015 11:38
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Skippy McPants posted:Oh good, a respec option. Screw all of those crazies who insist that re-rolling the entire game should be the only way to fix a single mistake during leveling up. Edit: heh first comment on that message 'Make it a one time feature upon venturing into the expansion areas...otherwise it might be disastrous' oh no. Disaster! Someone might use the respec option more than I approve of. Darkhold fucked around with this message at 18:38 on Jul 16, 2015 |
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Jul 16, 2015 18:31
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I can get why you wouldn't have something like that in a roguelike, since the game is intended to be played multiple times, but for a monolithic 80+ RPG? Not so much. Finding out twenty hours in that you mistook estocs for a type of greatsword and now you're hosed, or that you're locked out of using an awesome new weapon you didn't even know existed because of a choice you made seven levels ago... That just flat out sucks. What confuses me even more are the people who actively campaign against adding such a feature. As if the mere thought of other people using it somehow detracted from their own fun. I guess what I'm getting at is that gamers are all toxic psychopaths, and nobody should ever listen to us when it comes to game design, because our ideas are always terrible.
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Jul 16, 2015 18:44
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Yeah I'll never understand some people's emotional attachment to changes in single player games. Some of the feedback on adding accuracy to perception has been really out of touch with reality.
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Jul 16, 2015 18:45
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Rascyc posted:Yeah I'll never understand some people's emotional attachment to changes in single player games. Some of the feedback on adding accuracy to perception has been really out of touch with reality. Designer: We don't really like that Perception is universal dump stat, so we're thinking about adding an accuracy bonus to it. in the expansion. Player: What the gently caress?! That totally makes finely tuned murder-blender marginally less optimized. Why would you do this, you monsters! Designer: Okay, okay, but don't worry; we're also adding a respec option, so you'll be able to adjust as needed. Player Nooooooooo!
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Jul 16, 2015 18:52
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In related news: I think I've been reading too many posts on the official PoE forums.
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Jul 16, 2015 18:56
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They really don't like balance in a single-player game at all, which is really weird. Like, shouldn't all the classes and builds be fun to play? I know whenever I play Diablo 2, I avoid playing the Barbarian. I'd love to play the Barbarian, but at a certain point the poor bastard falls off so hard compared to many of the other classes that it becomes boring to play him and I start wanting to play literally any of the other classes. It's such a weird mind-set that they have. I guess OP poo poo can be really fun, like in Morrowind and Arcanum where you can just bust the game's difficulty curve in half nearly right off the bat, but those games tended to give every playstyle a fun OP thing rather than D&D games, which just hoisted all the fun poo poo on the casters.
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Jul 16, 2015 19:00
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I have instinctive dislike of respec systems which I think is partially: 1.) I'm a grumpy grog, the more ~serious~ an RPG is the more I dislike it. Fine in Diablo, questionable in PoE. 2.) My ~immersion~ 3.) The game should be balanced enough that all builds are fun and cool and you don't need to respec (should also come with free ponies and wash your dishes) But I recognize my reaction is a weird emotional one and shouldn't have any impact on how games are designed. Adding a respec system is cool. I hope people enjoy it and they have more fun with the game. I can just not push that button. 
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Jul 16, 2015 19:07
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Fintilgin posted:I have instinctive dislike of respec systems which I think is partially:
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Jul 16, 2015 19:33
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Darkhold posted:It's alright to have irrational preferences we all do. But a totally optional unobtrusive system for those that want it is as inoffensive as it gets. It's people getting upset over the notion that other people might be playing their single player game wrong is the funny thing here. I was gonna say that stat respeccing combined with dialogue stat-gating could make the game less fun, but then I realized the stat-gating is already so broken and meaningless it doesn't matter, since the solution to everything is "bed, prostitute, magic/items before talking to people" and there's basically no stat challenge you can fail.
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Jul 16, 2015 19:39
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Most stat checks don't lead to anything special anyway, they're just flavor options or a short cut in dialog. Occassionally a few "avoid combat" checks but who cares about those, using those always leaves me in a "DID I MISS SOME SPECIAL LOOT THOUGH?" fugue that I avoid them.
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Jul 16, 2015 19:43
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GlyphGryph posted:I was gonna say that stat respeccing combined with dialogue stat-gating could make the game less fun, but then I realized the stat-gating is already so broken and meaningless it doesn't matter, since the solution to everything is "bed, prostitute, magic/items before talking to people" and there's basically no stat challenge you can fail.  uh ok. I submit if you're such a sperg you respec and buff for conversation checks you're the one ruining the game for yourself.
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Jul 16, 2015 19:51
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Jesus do people actually do that? Do they even...enjoy games?
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Jul 16, 2015 19:53
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Retraining costs money in game proportional to the retraining character's level and you are rebuilding every single level. It's a relatively laborious/time-consuming process so I don't think many people will be retraining six or seven times in a single game.
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Jul 16, 2015 20:04
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Everybody has irrational aversions to things. If someone, even someone I'm dating, puts their feet on the pillow I sleep on, holy poo poo that drives me nuts. That's essentially putting the floor in your mouth!!!!!! 
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Jul 16, 2015 20:12
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precision posted:Everybody has irrational aversions to things. If someone, even someone I'm dating, puts their feet on the pillow I sleep on, holy poo poo that drives me nuts. That's essentially putting the floor in your mouth!!!!!! This is not irrational, I'm with you there.
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Jul 16, 2015 20:14
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rope kid posted:Retraining costs money in game proportional to the retraining character's level and you are rebuilding every single level. It's a relatively laborious/time-consuming process so I don't think many people will be retraining six or seven times in a single game. What else are we going to spend gold on? The fortress?
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Jul 16, 2015 20:19
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I was one of the people who didn't care much that you couldn't retrain in the vanilla game, only because there's really no "wrong way" to build a character - only sub-par choices at worst. You couldn't really gimp your build unless you were really, really dumb. It wasn't game breaking. But I'm glad we'll have that choice in 2.0 because I agree it's better to be able to just rebuild from scratch.
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Jul 16, 2015 20:27
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Darkhold posted:
Most players will, when offered a path that results in better rewards or one that is more fun, take the one that offers higher rewards. It's why games have "Iron Man Mode" as an actual option rather than something a player just says they will do. Part of game design is avoiding offering mechanically superior but ultimately less fun choices to your player, because human psychology is good at trumping human enjoyment. Most people recognize this, and try to put up walls between them and the optimal choice by considering it "outside the rules", "cheating", or otherwise "unacceptable". Those arguments and justifications they use to prevent themselves from doing things that are less fun don't hold up so well when a game offers them as a valid and accepted option, unless you have an active meta-game powerful enough to discourage them (see: nuzlocke runs and noob tubes), which PoE does not. Even players who can and do choose to avoid an optimal strategy for the purposes of fun will often feel slightly less happy that they have to even make that choice and forego an obvious advantage. And we're talking a genre where this sort of attitude seems exceptionally common. So good design (which they seem to be doing here), will find a way to allow players to more easily justify pursuing an obviously sub-optimal strategy. It's not much to say something like completely unlimited respeccing can be bad for a game, depending on the context. I think the PoE guys will handle it fine though. I'll be glad to see it, because I'd love to do more experimenting with builds. But there's definitely a risk for perverse incentives which PoE has otherwise done a rather good job at avoiding. precision posted:Everybody has irrational aversions to things. If someone, even someone I'm dating, puts their feet on the pillow I sleep on, holy poo poo that drives me nuts. That's essentially putting the floor in your mouth!!!!!! 
GlyphGryph fucked around with this message at 20:36 on Jul 16, 2015 |
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Jul 16, 2015 20:32
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So what is and isn't covered by the respec option? I would guess race, class, culture and background are set in stone while skills, abilities and talents can be changed. I'm guessing attributes can't be changed as you can't retrain someone to be taller.
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Jul 16, 2015 20:37
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I'd be happy if the character creation was locked in stone while respeccing let you go through the level up screens again, but I guess technically the first level up screen is included in character creation.
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Jul 16, 2015 20:41
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precision posted:Everybody has irrational aversions to things. If someone, even someone I'm dating, puts their feet on the pillow I sleep on, holy poo poo that drives me nuts. That's essentially putting the floor in your mouth!!!!!! Oh please like you haven't ever eaten food you've dropped on the floor
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Jul 16, 2015 20:42
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Krowley posted:Oh please like you haven't ever eaten food you've dropped on the floor Are you saying there are people who don't?
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Jul 16, 2015 20:44
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Inspector Gesicht posted:Are you saying there are people who don't? People who have dogs that shed a lot? Only thing I can think of.
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Jul 16, 2015 20:45
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Ugh I bet you people wear shoes inside your house too
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Jul 16, 2015 20:58
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Skippy McPants posted:I can get why you wouldn't have something like that in a roguelike, since the game is intended to be played multiple times, but for a monolithic 80+ RPG? Not so much. Finding out twenty hours in that you mistook estocs for a type of greatsword and now you're hosed, or that you're locked out of using an awesome new weapon you didn't even know existed because of a choice you made seven levels ago... That just flat out sucks. What confuses me even more are the people who actively campaign against adding such a feature. As if the mere thought of other people using it somehow detracted from their own fun. I don't see why you need to invalidate your earlier choices because of a cool sword you want to use now or whatever, that's pretty silly. You can make any build work if you're good. ChiTownEddie posted:Jesus do people actually do that? There's a mod for that. Inspector Gesicht posted:Are you saying there are people who don't? Depends on how wet the food is. Is there a sauce? Not eating floor sauce. Or foot sauce. On the other hand, it's just games, so why not have the option available?
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Jul 16, 2015 21:00
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Inspector Gesicht posted:So what is and isn't covered by the respec option? I would guess race, class, culture and background are set in stone while skills, abilities and talents can be changed. I'm guessing attributes can't be changed as you can't retrain someone to be taller.
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Jul 16, 2015 21:00
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rope kid posted:Retraining costs money in game proportional to the retraining character's level and you are rebuilding every single level. It's a relatively laborious/time-consuming process so I don't think many people will be retraining six or seven times in a single game. I suppose the best way is just save before you respec and try a couple different builds in the same area before making up your mind.
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Jul 16, 2015 21:05
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GlyphGryph posted:Most players will, when offered a path that results in better rewards or one that is more fun, take the one that offers higher rewards. It's why games have "Iron Man Mode" as an actual option rather than something a player just says they will do. Part of game design is avoiding offering mechanically superior but ultimately less fun choices to your player, because human psychology is good at trumping human enjoyment.
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Jul 16, 2015 21:07
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rope kid posted:Retraining costs money in game proportional to the retraining character's level and you are rebuilding every single level. It's a relatively laborious/time-consuming process so I don't think many people will be retraining six or seven times in a single game.
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Jul 16, 2015 21:15
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Darkhold posted:Buffing before conversations and respeccing for stat checks is one of those things that the vast majority of players won't bother with Like I guess I'd buff my CHA if it let me solve that unsolvable Ogre Island quest in Arcanum or something, but otherwise.... god...  Just gonna play the game. Of course, I'm also the sort who winds up with my inventory jammed full of potions, scrolls, and crafting poo poo, because I'm saving it for when I really need it. I think, over the course of the entire game, I used one food dish on the very first wilderness map of the game, when I was a solo dude to beat the wolves. Fintilgin posted:I suppose I could use one ironskin potion while fighting Tyranthraxus the Dark Dragon Lord, but... ugh... I dunno... if I can beat him without it I would have wasted it...
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Jul 16, 2015 21:18
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You need to play more roguelikes to condition yourself that using consumeables is a good thing.
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Jul 16, 2015 21:20
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Skippy McPants posted:In related news: I think I've been reading too many posts on the official PoE forums.
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Jul 16, 2015 22:01
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https://twitter.com/jesawyer/status/621781278849798144 I dunno, I still kinda feel all the stronghold bonuses should stack? That way it's kinda a small general bonus to everything, and doesn't overlap with the role of inns for high bonuses to a specific stat or two.
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Jul 16, 2015 23:46
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Is the drinking horn of moderation fixed yet? i havent played since march.
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Jul 17, 2015 00:35
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Scorchy posted:https://twitter.com/jesawyer/status/621781278849798144 e: And not only skill/attribute bonuses.
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Jul 17, 2015 01:22
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The respec thing doesn't matter anyway since at least half of the players will start a fresh character for the expansion.
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Jul 17, 2015 03:37
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So, now that you can retrain, are you still having epics ignore player weapon spec/focus choices?
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Jul 17, 2015 04:20
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