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Holland Oats
Oct 20, 2003

Only the dead have seen the end of war

Has AAA always played ads on the big screen during matches? It bothers me so much, why would they want people's attention on anything other than the in-ring action?

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Grozz Nuy
Feb 21, 2008

Welcome to Moonside.

Wecomel to Soonmide.

Moonwel ot cosidme.

Strenuous Manflurry posted:

And like Thauros said, it's not that the original CMLL Mistico was a big deal, he was THE big deal.

OK, follow up question: why? I mean I definitely wasn't watching much lucha prior to him getting signed by WWE, but what made Caristico such a huge star during that time?

Spermgod
Jan 8, 2012

pink wasn't even a thing why is t#RXT REVOLUTION~!
and i'm so fucking excited for #SCOOPS#SCOOPS#SCOOPS #SCOOPS#SCOOPS #SCOOPS#SCOOPS

he knows..


He got a huge push at a time when CMLL was determined to make a new star, the gimmick struck a chord with people and he was one of the most spectacular flyers of the time.

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

Fundamentals as sound as the WNBA


Grozz Nuy posted:

OK, follow up question: why? I mean I definitely wasn't watching much lucha prior to him getting signed by WWE, but what made Caristico such a huge star during that time?

He has a lot of charisma and at his peak was an incredibly smooth high flyer. He's regressed, but he's not nearly as bad as people say. I remember people blaming him for botches the other Sin Cara made. He's very good.

oatgan
Jan 15, 2009



They associated him strongly with El Santo and pushed him harder than anybody else. It worked. I don't think people understand how huge he was. iirc he was flying all around Mexico and working as many as 10 shows a week. They finally started beating him and his star faded but he was the biggest wrestling star on the planet for a while there.

Strenuous Manflurry
Sep 5, 2006

THE END


oatgan posted:

They associated him strongly with El Santo and pushed him harder than anybody else. It worked. I don't think people understand how huge he was. iirc he was flying all around Mexico and working as many as 10 shows a week. They finally started beating him and his star faded but he was the biggest wrestling star on the planet for a while there.

I think there were weeks where he was, without exaggeration, doing as many as 18 shows. Incredible.

Edit: Though Meltz revealing his nickname among some wrestlers is "Handles," because he needs to be carried, is like the funniest wrestling thing this year outside of Mr. Niebla's drunken Casita.

Spermgod
Jan 8, 2012

pink wasn't even a thing why is t#RXT REVOLUTION~!
and i'm so fucking excited for #SCOOPS#SCOOPS#SCOOPS #SCOOPS#SCOOPS #SCOOPS#SCOOPS

he knows..


I've gotta say I never felt he was especially charismatic. It's kinda similar to Tanahashi in that both guys clearly have something that resonates with their target audience but doesn't with me at all. He was very sympathetic while taking a beating though, which I guess is a kind of charisma.

Spermgod fucked around with this message at Nov 11, 2015 around 22:15

Spermgod
Jan 8, 2012

pink wasn't even a thing why is t#RXT REVOLUTION~!
and i'm so fucking excited for #SCOOPS#SCOOPS#SCOOPS #SCOOPS#SCOOPS #SCOOPS#SCOOPS

he knows..


But yeah just look at any Arena Mexico main event from like 2005-2009. Some of the hottest crowds ever, and they were like that multiple times per week, in the same building, for a good few years straight. An interesting debate would be whose run is more impressive, Místico's or Austin's, when you adjust for the Mexican economy and the fact that they were running the same building 3 times a week vs. the WWF being able to tour around a very large country.

Spermgod fucked around with this message at Nov 11, 2015 around 22:22

NotQuiteQuentin
Jan 29, 2005

BIG OVER


College Slice

Spermgod posted:

I've gotta say I never felt he was especially charismatic. It's kinda similar to Tanahashi in that both guys clearly have something that resonates with their target audience but doesn't with me at all. He was very sympathetic while taking a beating though, which I guess is a kind of charisma.

You hit the nail on the head about how I've felt about Caristico/Tanahashi/BXB Hulk.

NotQuiteQuentin
Jan 29, 2005

BIG OVER


College Slice

Dr Lucha posted:


notes/quotes from MLW Radio 201, re plans for the AAA Mega title, Alberto and Elite. https://t.co/DEEsUkK0Fa


of course there had to be some weird Hijo relation with all of this.

Wiccan Wasteland
Oct 15, 2012


NotQuiteQuentin posted:

of course there had to be some weird Hijo relation with all of this.

Everyone is going after poor AAA.

No Luck Needed
Mar 18, 2015


Strenuous Manflurry posted:

I watched the Sombra/Volador vs Rush/Mistico match from a few days back. Really fun match, with LOS INGOBERNABLES going at it and Volador Jr getting a chance to heel it up a little. Sombra's antics are amazing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pihnPpEoaEc

This was a good match; I enjoyed the dick kick and dick punch finish. I thought it was funny when Volador is carring Mistico out and picks up a beer then tosses it in Mistico's face. This is my first look at Los Ingobernables that everyone in the NJPW threads are wetting themselves over. Anyone want to share some links to matches I should watch?

Durk Hendrunkqs
Dec 12, 2006

It's useless.


No Luck Needed posted:

This was a good match; I enjoyed the dick kick and dick punch finish. I thought it was funny when Volador is carring Mistico out and picks up a beer then tosses it in Mistico's face. This is my first look at Los Ingobernables that everyone in the NJPW threads are wetting themselves over. Anyone want to share some links to matches I should watch?

Definitely subscribe to CubsFan's youtube page. He posts all the CMLL and AAA matches along with a few indies.

Gusano
Dec 15, 2013


Strenuous Manflurry posted:

I think there were weeks where he was, without exaggeration, doing as many as 18 shows. Incredible.

Edit: Though Meltz revealing his nickname among some wrestlers is "Handles," because he needs to be carried, is like the funniest wrestling thing this year outside of Mr. Niebla's drunken Casita.

Need more info plz.

oatgan
Jan 15, 2009



Gusano posted:

Need more info plz.

Niebla was too drunk to perform one night (probably several nights) and it was very obvious. It was everything the rest of the guys in the match could do to ensure he did not hurt himself or someone else.

Witness a man attempt a pinning combination while his teammates are celebrating because they already won the fall

Gusano
Dec 15, 2013


oatgan posted:

Niebla was too drunk to perform one night (probably several nights) and it was very obvious. It was everything the rest of the guys in the match could do to ensure he did not hurt himself or someone else.

Witness a man attempt a pinning combination while his teammates are celebrating because they already won the fall



Holy crap, I need to find that video.

Thanks oatgan.

oatgan
Jan 15, 2009



an edited version of the match here, there's a couple more "highlights" the didn't take out https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdFu8Kraz6Q

he falls off the apron, he'll tag in but the his teammates won't let him wrestle, he just falls down a couple times etc...

oatgan fucked around with this message at Nov 12, 2015 around 06:03

Gusano
Dec 15, 2013


oatgan posted:

an edited version of the match here, there's a couple more "highlights" the didn't take out https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdFu8Kraz6Q

he falls off the apron, he'll tag in but the his teammates won't let him wrestle, he just falls down a couple times etc...

I like the nickname the announcers gave him: The Drooling Beast. It just fits the situation so well.

coconono
Aug 11, 2004

I bet against K-1


oatgan posted:

an edited version of the match here, there's a couple more "highlights" the didn't take out https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdFu8Kraz6Q

he falls off the apron, he'll tag in but the his teammates won't let him wrestle, he just falls down a couple times etc...

I watched it live and dude fell off the ring, laid on the floor for a good five minutes. During that time, everyone in ring kicked it into high gear to distract the crowd from the fact.

Chris James 2
Aug 9, 2012

plz remember that it was ~ME~ who told you that everything you like is actually really not good, because I knew all along.


Averno, Cibernetico, and Chessman are gone

jesus christ aaa

OJ MIST 2 THE DICK
Sep 10, 2008

Anytime I need to see your face I just close my eyes
And I am taken to a place
Where your crystal minds and magenta feelings
Take up shelter in the base of my spine
Sweet like a chica cherry cola

-Cheap Trick


Nap Ghost

Chris James 2 posted:

Averno, Cibernetico, and Chessman are gone

jesus christ aaa

so is that both their trios champs and world champ gone in a month?

Strenuous Manflurry
Sep 5, 2006

THE END


No Luck Needed posted:

This was a good match; I enjoyed the dick kick and dick punch finish. I thought it was funny when Volador is carring Mistico out and picks up a beer then tosses it in Mistico's face. This is my first look at Los Ingobernables that everyone in the NJPW threads are wetting themselves over. Anyone want to share some links to matches I should watch?

Oh my, now it's Manflurry's time to shine.

Ok, so, the thing about CMLL, and you probably already know this, is the top acts work all the loving time in trios matches, so you are gonna get a poo poo ton of 6 mans that often have no storyline relevance. I'm fine with that, when it comes to the Gobers at least, because they are such a fun unit and Sombra's like a mid-90s Shawn Michaels in his mannerism and aloofness.

Los Ingobernables = La Sombra, Rush, Naito, Marco Corleone (you may or may not remember him as Mark Jindrak in another life), La Mascara, and (apparently) "King of Darkness" Evil.

So, if you want a great match, start at Sombra vs Atlantis hair vs hair https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LQUouo78KY

Here are a bunch of trios or parejas I have personally watched and range from watchable to very good.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OT1gCXB1zF4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqNfZNzfWaA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOqbTdA9crc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LE8uqeyOAw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZgJBayciFU

But yeah, follow thecubsfan on Youtube and check those new releases. He also has lengthy writeups on https://www.thecubsfan.com/cmll/ where he tells ya what's good and what's poo poo.

No Luck Needed
Mar 18, 2015


Strenuous Manflurry posted:

Oh my, now it's Manflurry's time to shine.


So, if you want a great match, start at Sombra vs Atlantis hair vs hair https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LQUouo78KY


it was mask vs mask, question: is the tombstomb piledriver banned in CMLL or did la Sombra lose a stip match where he can no longer use it or was it just the referee not wanting him to do it? Question, under their names on the graphics both where listed as tecnicos, where they both faces going in or does that mean something else?

Thauros
Jan 29, 2003



No Luck Needed posted:

it was mask vs mask, question: is the tombstomb piledriver banned in CMLL or did la Sombra lose a stip match where he can no longer use it or was it just the referee not wanting him to do it? Question, under their names on the graphics both where listed as tecnicos, where they both faces going in or does that mean something else?

The standard piledriver (termed a martinete in lucha) is definitely outlawed and an automatic dq. On the other hand multiple people use the package ariant as a finisher and I'm actually not sure about the tombstone.

Tecnico and Rudo are official designations in lucha which usually correspond to face and heel but that's been less true lately. Los Ingobernables (the Rush/Sombra/Mascara/Marco/Naito group) are basically heel tecnicos and part of the act is based on them insisting on remaining on the tecnico side despite their behavior.

On the other side you have Ultimo Guerrero, Gran Guerrero and Euforia who are rudos defintiely cast in a babyface role for their feud with Thunder.

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

Fundamentals as sound as the WNBA


Thauros posted:

The standard piledriver (termed a martinete in lucha) is definitely outlawed and an automatic dq. On the other hand multiple people use the package ariant as a finisher and I'm actually not sure about the tombstone.

Tecnico and Rudo are official designations in lucha which usually correspond to face and heel but that's been less true lately. Los Ingobernables (the Rush/Sombra/Mascara/Marco/Naito group) are basically heel tecnicos and part of the act is based on them insisting on remaining on the tecnico side despite their behavior.

On the other side you have Ultimo Guerrero, Gran Guerrero and Euforia who are rudos defintiely cast in a babyface role for their feud with Thunder.

The tombstone is the martinete and that is the banned move.

Thauros
Jan 29, 2003



MassRafTer posted:

The tombstone is the martinete and that is the banned move.

Huh I could've sworn I've seen DQ's and screaming announcers from just the regular one but I'm hardly a lucha expert. Thanks.

No Luck Needed
Mar 18, 2015


Thauros posted:

Tecnico and Rudo are official designations in lucha which usually correspond to face and heel but that's been less true lately. Los Ingobernables (the Rush/Sombra/Mascara/Marco/Naito group) are basically heel tecnicos and part of the act is based on them insisting on remaining on the tecnico side despite their behavior.

I was hoping for an answer like this; I see why the goons are all over them: who doesn't want to root for the cool rudos

Strenuous Manflurry
Sep 5, 2006

THE END


No Luck Needed posted:

it was mask vs mask, question: is the tombstomb piledriver banned in CMLL or did la Sombra lose a stip match where he can no longer use it or was it just the referee not wanting him to do it? Question, under their names on the graphics both where listed as tecnicos, where they both faces going in or does that mean something else?

Why in the world did I write hair vs hair? It was early....

And yeah, the Tombstone is definitely banned in CMLL. Maybe AAA, too? It's like one of the three major cheating ways to score a pin in CMLL - there's the mask pull (if the ref doesn't see you pull the mask, he doesn't DQ you, and the wrestler who had their mask pulled has to cover their face and take the pin to protect their identity), the low blow (almost always leads to a pin), and if you're real nasty, the DREADED MARTINETE usually leads to the opponent being carted out after the pin.

oatgan
Jan 15, 2009



Example: https://youtu.be/An2R-TsSHoU

Spermgod
Jan 8, 2012

pink wasn't even a thing why is t#RXT REVOLUTION~!
and i'm so fucking excited for #SCOOPS#SCOOPS#SCOOPS #SCOOPS#SCOOPS #SCOOPS#SCOOPS

he knows..


the loving blue monkey is always interfering in matches so he got what he deserved

Gusano
Dec 15, 2013


Spermgod posted:

the loving blue monkey is always interfering in matches so he got what he deserved

Kemonito is a national treasure you moron.

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

Fundamentals as sound as the WNBA


Gusano posted:

Kemonito is a national treasure you moron.

Best Non-Wrestler 2016.

rovert
Jun 10, 2013
Probation
Can't post for 6 days!


Tapings start this weekend. So be alert and/or kind when it comes to spoilers both here and social media. Also just stop listening to Wrestling Observer Radio as Meltzer will blurt out spoilers at random times.

flashy_mcflash
Feb 7, 2011

I joined the #RXT REVOLUTION.

he knows...


Ultra Carp

rovert posted:

Tapings start this weekend. So be alert and/or kind when it comes to spoilers both here and social media. Also just stop listening to Wrestling Observer Radio as Meltzer will blurt out spoilers at random times.

This is a good tip. I've never been so irrationally angry at a wrestling thing as I was with Dave spoiling Ultima Lucha on some random show/newsletter. I might kill my sub until the Rumble to avoid that again.

Thauros
Jan 29, 2003



Yeah, I learned very quickly to fast forward through any discussion of the recent LU episode since he'd drop spoilers with no warning and even that wasn't enough to avoid them.

He spoiled the trios title changing hands at the end of the season in the goddamn GFW section of the newsletter for no good reason at all.

No Luck Needed
Mar 18, 2015



in this trios Dr. Wagner Jr. keeps trying to Too Sweet both Rush and la Sombra, and la Sombra breaks it up a few times but then does a triple Too Sweet later; what is up with that?

great dusty finish, good back and forth match; does anyone ever do 2/3 falls trios matches outside of Mexico?

Strenuous Manflurry
Sep 5, 2006

THE END


No Luck Needed posted:

in this trios Dr. Wagner Jr. keeps trying to Too Sweet both Rush and la Sombra, and la Sombra breaks it up a few times but then does a triple Too Sweet later; what is up with that?

Wagner had just returned to CMLL (and, because he's Wagner, was gone like 2 weeks later, if that), so this was his first time teaming with LOS INGOBERNABLES, so they were kinda hesitant to get buddy-buddy with him. But eventually they relented, his old man heelishness melting their young punk hearts, and made for an awesome one-time-only trio.

No Luck Needed posted:

great dusty finish, good back and forth match; does anyone ever do 2/3 falls trios matches outside of Mexico?

Australia!

That... that's a joke because CMLL calls those sort of trios matches "Relevos Australianos" for reasons I've never seen explained.

Thauros
Jan 29, 2003




Reminder that this is tonight and should be well worth watching if you're home. I missed last week's show but apparently you didn't even need a proxy?

We might get some light shed on what the hell is going on with Sombra and plus those guys are both really loving great anyway.

coconono
Aug 11, 2004

I bet against K-1


Strenuous Manflurry posted:

Wagner had just returned to CMLL (and, because he's Wagner, was gone like 2 weeks later, if that), so this was his first time teaming with LOS INGOBERNABLES, so they were kinda hesitant to get buddy-buddy with him. But eventually they relented, his old man heelishness melting their young punk hearts, and made for an awesome one-time-only trio.


Australia!

That... that's a joke because CMLL calls those sort of trios matches "Relevos Australianos" for reasons I've never seen explained.

tag matches were originally called australian tag matches as the Australia territory was huge into tag teams in the 60-70s.

http://www.infinitecore.ca/supersta...?threadid=51013

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Spermgod
Jan 8, 2012

pink wasn't even a thing why is t#RXT REVOLUTION~!
and i'm so fucking excited for #SCOOPS#SCOOPS#SCOOPS #SCOOPS#SCOOPS #SCOOPS#SCOOPS

he knows..


I don't really mind one fall for singles matches but I wish AAA would at least use 2/3 falls for trios. The whole structure of the matches doesn't work as well with one fall imo

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