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Adeline Weishaupt
Oct 16, 2013

by Lowtax
Just finished reading the thread (or at least Jane's post and a few others) and I have to thank you Jane for getting these ideas down. They were incredibly readable and easy to understand for me at least. It actually finally got me some answers to questions that have been bothering me for a long time, and actually connected some ideas rattling around my head for a long time (specifically how people are obsessed with stories, and applying their lives to the framework of a narrative).

I really appreciate now being able to understand what goes on in the heads of a people who have eluded me for most of my lifetime. These compacted Narrativists still scare me, but understanding how they are likely their own downfall is something of a comforting thought (if only I could keep myself from imagining doomsday scenarios that you assure won't happen). I really hope you can get into contact with a somebody who's respected in academia at some point in your life; because your ideas would be valuable to understanding the climate and forces shaping our current political world. Especially as a warning of what happens when you play with this kind of fire.

Just one question though, at some point back in the thread you mentioned that there are going to be some arguements about the limits of free speech in the near future. What do you mean by that?

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Adeline Weishaupt
Oct 16, 2013

by Lowtax
Thanks a ton for your writing PJ.

This has honestly been one of the must interesting threads on SA I've read, and I'm anticipating your next and final post here.

I commend you on your decision to focus on your recovery, and I wouldn't wish for anything else for you. And as much as I would appreciate somebody else taking up the torch, nobody has quite the insight or intuitive connections that you've got. I hope that you can take that brilliant mind of yours and use it to create something else worth reading; like a cookbook on various fried chicken recipes, or a YouTube series about various movements in Lego artforms.

Adeline Weishaupt
Oct 16, 2013

by Lowtax

spotlessd posted:

Of course it's "weird", but you don't need this insanely overwrought conceptual framework rooted in a really questionable theory of political personalities to understand it. And besides which I don't think a group of people who have spent the past few months insinuating that Trump is some kind of Russian sleeper agent have really earned to the right to lecture people on the perils of paranoid thinking.

lol,

and you're saying the people in this thread are the crazy ones.

P.S. The foundation of this thread is the genuine experiences of the OP, who used the personality theory as short-hand and quickly dropped it once it became apparent that what PJ was describing was different from what Authoritarians were described as.

Adeline Weishaupt
Oct 16, 2013

by Lowtax
Alternative framework that was inspired by the original framework.

Adeline Weishaupt
Oct 16, 2013

by Lowtax
Not gonna go too much in detail, since it's been brought up in the thread more than a few times. But your description of Specialists vs Artisans sounds just like a textbook description of a person who scores 'low-openness' vs someone who scores 'high-openness' in the Big Five model of personality.

Adeline Weishaupt
Oct 16, 2013

by Lowtax
Plus, ya know, the fact that they are hastening the death of their voting demographic. It'll be a fun 2020 election when everybody over 65 is dead two thirds of baby boomers are uninsured and pissed off about it.

Adeline Weishaupt
Oct 16, 2013

by Lowtax
Ditto what Ice P said, PJ has demonstrated that Narrativists are cowards at heart. They only attack if they feel like the consequences to their actions are minor-to-nonexistent. They will attack if they have the police on their side (which at this moment they believe; hence the headlines about the police being "trump's soldiers"), but when the rubber hits the road the police are loyal to protecting the peace and maintaining order. Some departments are going to let a little violence slide when it's a part of the local police culture (i.e. violence toward minorities in racist areas); but when something that'll make headlines happen, and jobs are on the line, then Police aren't going to be too kind towards any 'True Patriots'.

If American insurgents crop up, it will the hardest of hardliners, the guys that are unlikely to have anything to lose; like Ice P noticed. And the people who do have nothing to lose are the people who had very little to begin with; the unemployed, the loners who only associated with other narrativists, and people who invested themselves so heavily into the narrative that the idea of Trump being impeached is a sign of the 'end of days'.

But as crazy as narrativists are, not as many voted for Trump as you'd llike to believe; a large amount of Trump voters didn't vote for him because he appealed to their inner narratives. A large number ov voters were frustrated by both parties, the kind who were hit hard by the old-guard Republican policies and were frustrated by the gridlock that defined the Obama years. They hoped that by getting an outsider in the system that there would be an advocate for the regular person; rather than what we actually have. Plus, with the constant compaction cycles, narrativists have been burning out and that trend is likely to continue.

So violence will happen, and despite what I've said it'll be hard to predict the scale. If we're lucky, there will be only one major attack, and that will put public sympathy in whatever police officer (or if thing get unstable enough at that point, National Guard serviceman and Military Police) gives their life to protect innocent people. And putting a cooling effect on further groups. It never going to be as big or as devastating as something like the Troubles in Ireland. Again, the majority of narrativists are older folk who have too much to risk; the young blood were bled-out of the Republican party through their constant pandering to Baby Boomers, and the Alt-Right have no loyalty towards Trump and mostly act for their own amusement (they won't plan any attacks, but they'll laugh at it same way SA laughed at 9/11).

Adeline Weishaupt
Oct 16, 2013

by Lowtax
There's one major factor that's different between Pre-WWI Europe and the 2017 Geoploitical stage, nobody actually wants a war.

The old-world mentality was that War was a honorable event that helped build character.

With modern military technology, as well as the effects of modern warfare, Americans on average don't want an honest-to-god war. The military doesn't want to put soldiers on the ground; as shipping men to North Korea/Iran/Anywhere is difficult, expensive, and dangerous. Remote warfare helps with insurgent warfare and relatively small-scale conflict, but the kind of war that this thread is talking about requires hardware, infrastructure, and morale. Things that are hard to gather when we have one of America's mosted disliked president in charge. If the president declares war, there will be more push-back from the Military and Congress.

Only thing that would change that is if America experiences another 9/11; at which point all of that stuff I mentioned is moot. Nobody is going to waste a good tragedy.

Adeline Weishaupt
Oct 16, 2013

by Lowtax
Considering the bipartisan condemnation, does anybody expect there to be action taken against this group/help fuel the flames of impeachment?

And to keep the question more on-topic; in the case of Republican action against American Nazis and/or Trump would this be considered justified by some narrativists? (obviously not all since racial cluster narrativists are the ones leading the Nazi rallies) Since it's "our guys" getting rid of the bad guys, or would it be more likely that they would consider them 'cuckservatives' who are traitors in their narrative?

Adeline Weishaupt fucked around with this message at 21:31 on Aug 13, 2017

Adeline Weishaupt
Oct 16, 2013

by Lowtax

Deteriorata posted:

Nah, this is pretty small potatoes, overall. What it does is give more freedom to turn on him within the Republican party if and when the time comes.

Trump needs to be directly accused of a fairly serious crime before impeachment even becomes an issue. Then it's a matter of how much loyalty to him is worth for the rest of the party.

Sorry, that was kinda what I was asking. I don't think that you can impeach a president for the actions of a handful of citizens. But I guess I should have made it more clear that even the most hardline Republican politicians can't ignore Trump's influence on the rallies, and that might cause some allies-of-convenience to turn against him. Which when it builds up with further blunders and negative press, might cause him to be unpopular enough to create the right conditions for an impeachment to be possible rather than unlikely (if the FBI investigations lead to illegal activities of course).

Edit: page snipe

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Adeline Weishaupt
Oct 16, 2013

by Lowtax

It looks like the tweet is deleted, what did it say?

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