That Which Sleeps - Eldritch Snooze Simulator

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > That Which Sleeps - Eldritch Snooze Simulator

Demiurge4: Aug 10, 2011

NoNotTheMindProbe posted:

This game looks interesting but I still don't really understand what the gameplay is. I'm guessing it's something like a mix of Crusader Kings 2 and Plague Inc.

Basically you're the big bad and have to break out and destroy/take over the world. The fact that your prison is weakening will become apparent to the sages of the world and heroes will come to put your alarm clock back on the snooze setting. You use your prophet to gain influence and recruit various other agents and minions, one of which is a deranged peddler who can sell cursed weapons or bad potions to passing heroes. These actions all increase an agents notoriety and eventually heroes will attempt to hunt them down so they are ultimately expendeable.

You can corrupt heroes or rulers, bribe guilds, mutate peasents and instigate wars in order to destabilize the world and prevent them from moving against you. This is important because the chosen one will try to create the Alliance which is all the good nations banding together to stop you. Proper preperation will mean the chosen one can't convince the strongest nations to band together because they are at war with each other or you control their nobility. There's a ton of options and every old one plays differently.

# ? Apr 16, 2015 21:35

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# ? Apr 26, 2024 20:05

Josef bugman: Nov 17, 2011; Pictured: Poster prepares to celebrate Holy Communion (probablY)

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NoNotTheMindProbe posted:

What would your short to medium goals be with your agents. I understand everything builds towards the big fight at the end, but what are your agents trying to do and what are the mechanics behind that? I take it you can command armies but that is not the core of the game experience, so what else are you looking to do?

Medium term? It will be manipulating behind the scenes stuff in the various AI countries, stopping heroes from mucking up your spells, recruiting more people and, dependent on Old One, trying to either kill off or corrupt the "chosen one".

# ? Apr 16, 2015 21:57

The Moon Monster: Dec 30, 2005

There's a lot of info regarding "stuff you can do" but not too much about the actual mechanics. I think we'll probably have to wait until the beta, which is allegedly soon, to find out more about that.

# ? Apr 16, 2015 22:19

Normal Adult Human: Feb 12, 2012; by FactsAreUseless

NoNotTheMindProbe posted:

This game looks interesting but I still don't really understand what the gameplay is. I'm guessing it's something like a mix of Crusader Kings 2 and Plague Inc.

It's a turn-based hider.

# ? Apr 17, 2015 00:43

Normal Adult Human: Feb 12, 2012; by FactsAreUseless

The Moon Monster posted:

There's a lot of info regarding "stuff you can do" but not too much about the actual mechanics. I think we'll probably have to wait until the beta, which is allegedly soon, to find out more about that.

it's because the people asking questions are all assholes who frame everything in "what ifs" and the dev almost always replies "its technically possible!"

# ? Apr 17, 2015 00:44

Deadmeat5150: Nov 21, 2005; OLD MAN YELLS AT CLAN

The Moon Monster posted:

A god that could create misleading prophecies to inspire false chosen ones/alliances to fight the real ones could be neat. Not sure if that's doable or not.

So making Chosen Ones like the Bard's Tale?

It must be bad luck to be them.

# ? Apr 17, 2015 06:09

extraordinary: Jun 9, 2011

So yeah.
They are going over the game mechanics next announcement.
But bar them concurrently releasing the modding tools, going from what they say I am not expecting beta till the middle of may.

# ? Apr 17, 2015 17:52

Josef bugman: Nov 17, 2011; Pictured: Poster prepares to celebrate Holy Communion (probablY)

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extraordinary posted:

So yeah.
They are going over the game mechanics next announcement.
But bar them concurrently releasing the modding tools, going from what they say I am not expecting beta till the middle of may.

To quote star wars "do not want".

Ahh well, it was kind of on the cards, but I would love to have started playing this ASAP.

# ? Apr 17, 2015 18:18

extraordinary: Jun 9, 2011

Josef bugman posted:

To quote star wars "do not want".

Ahh well, it was kind of on the cards, but I would love to have started playing this ASAP.

Yeah, I mean, I am happy they can completely overhaul the whole game but the wait is really annoying.

# ? Apr 17, 2015 19:44

Josef bugman: Nov 17, 2011; Pictured: Poster prepares to celebrate Holy Communion (probablY)

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extraordinary posted:

Yeah, I mean, I am happy they can completely overhaul the whole game but the wait is really annoying.

What are they overhauling?

# ? Apr 17, 2015 19:49

extraordinary: Jun 9, 2011

Josef bugman posted:

What are they overhauling?

Well, compared to November, they remade the maps completely. It's now done with hexes so they can dynamically change terrain. New Hero/Minion art, more races, religion, a few new gods and cultures etc.
And their philosophy is basically to make everything really modular and have the basics of everything in the code down now instead of later having to completely rewrite it when they implement rival old ones, for example.

# ? Apr 17, 2015 20:07

Demiurge4: Aug 10, 2011

Josef bugman posted:

What are they overhauling?

Stretch goals added a bunch of things that needed a lot of extra work. The biggest one is probably procedural generation but world changing rituals, moving effects on the map like scarring during a war, burning cities and so on added a lot too.The rival old ones and religion goals also added a bunch of extra work.

I suspect the main reason its taking so long is that they're not comfortable releasing the beta if its not almost release ready because there's no NDA, and games live or die on streaming content these days.

# ? Apr 17, 2015 20:09

Josef bugman: Nov 17, 2011; Pictured: Poster prepares to celebrate Holy Communion (probablY)

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Demiurge4 posted:

I suspect the main reason its taking so long is that they're not comfortable releasing the beta if its not almost release ready because there's no NDA, and games live or die on streaming content these days.

Sad but true. I am just going to have to wait then.

# ? Apr 17, 2015 20:20

Lprsti99: Apr 7, 2011; Everything's coming up explodey!; Pillbug

extraordinary posted:

Well, compared to November, they remade the maps completely. It's now done with hexes so they can dynamically change terrain. New Hero/Minion art, more races, religion, a few new gods and cultures etc.
And their philosophy is basically to make everything really modular and have the basics of everything in the code down now instead of later having to completely rewrite it when they implement rival old ones, for example.

I hope this means I can make the seas rise and drown whole cities.

# ? Apr 17, 2015 20:26

Demiurge4: Aug 10, 2011

Lprsti99 posted:

I hope this means I can make the seas rise and drown whole cities.

You can

# ? Apr 17, 2015 20:32

extraordinary: Jun 9, 2011

Lprsti99 posted:

I hope this means I can make the seas rise and drown whole cities.

Afaik something like this is planned, as well as Deep Ones (incest villages included) and I think Dagon as a lesser evil?

e:fb;

For some interesting and in - depth answers for once:

Josh posted:

Jalak posted:
One of the first things you said about what you can do at the start of a game is rile up some Orcs. How? What specific actions do you need, what are the results and how do the Orcs react along with the other Orcs surrounding them? Also, how powerful would a completely unified Orc horde be in, say, the North Burns scenario and how difficult would it be to achieve?

This is a fun question to answer because when we had our first playable builds we saw how fun it was to play the political system, and leading wars mid-late game were a blast as well - but the early game had a "tempo" problem where if you decided to play a long game and go for complex challenges early you'd just be skipping turns. To solve this we started making certain otherwise "complex" challenges/actions that would normally lead to a lot of clues much simpler and also safer to do, and we balanced this around the idea of "dangers already present in the world." Most specifically in the North Burns that comes in the form of orcs. Orcs being a natural danger that routinely formed into hordes to rampage so it shouldn't cause much alarm if they did so again (unless accompanied by demons of course). So we made some easier paths to unite tribes and make it less punishing, so that with a certain path you could have an army ready to march in just under 10 turns. In addition you can pursue this path anywhere you find orcs, and since an orc nation can rise from any sufficiently advanced orc tribe modifier it also gives you a stealthy way to introduce armed forces to areas of the world that may seem safe.

To answer the specifics of your question:

- Orcs can be recruited in a variety of ways, and you'll pursue different paths depending on your strategy. Any Orc Agent, or an Agent with the proper Orc Minion, can perform a simple challenge to kill the Orc Chief and claim dominion over the tribe. You can also rally the shamans of the tribe to call them over to your side, prop up an orc notable to all with you, corrupt the current Orc Chief, or just go the old-fashioned route of conquering them. Some of these tactics lead you to directly controlling the orc nations, some of them lead to the orc nation becoming a part of your faction, and others simply have them allied with you. Each comes with pros and cons - for instance if you have an Orc Agent controlling three tribes and he dies, they may go back to war to find a successor.

- You can also build Unique Buildings to help rally the tribes, and if you are Karth you send out a summons to rally the orcs to your side. If you chose a certain scenario option you also will begin with the Shadar Orcs who can help militarize the ragtag orc tribes.

- There are orcs everywhere, but if you mean the Orcs of the Wastes in Northern "The North Burns" they are quite strong when unified - but even then the entire horde might have trouble getting through the Pass into Cylaria if it is properly defended. Orcs lack natural siege weapons and discipline, both important elements to fighting in small areas - fight in the plains and orc hordes can easily overwhelm your opponents. The AI is designed to want to pin orcs into areas that limit their deployment, so you'll need almost always need to cause a distraction. Aventura though lacks a natural defensible POI and almost always falls to an early Orc Horde - sometimes if you just take one tribe you fail to take Aventura itself but that's almost a better result - in victory the AI often leaves itself vulnerable. One of my favorite "early orc" strategies is to tie in to a weak general and get some corruption, then let him defeat my hordes. The conquering hero returns with glory and prestige and can, with the proper motivation and some strategic help, quickly rise to power.

extraordinary fucked around with this message at 20:37 on Apr 17, 2015

# ? Apr 17, 2015 20:33

Lprsti99: Apr 7, 2011; Everything's coming up explodey!; Pillbug

Demiurge4 posted:

You can

Operation gently caress The Surface is a go.

# ? Apr 17, 2015 21:17

Josef bugman: Nov 17, 2011; Pictured: Poster prepares to celebrate Holy Communion (probablY)

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I think they mention in one of the videos how if you set off a surface sinker it can sometimes only drown the land around it.

# ? Apr 17, 2015 21:23

Demiurge4: Aug 10, 2011

Lprsti99 posted:

Operation gently caress The Surface is a go.

There are some undersea races and the mechanics exist for underwater PoI's but most agents can't enter the seas. None of the games scenario's focus on it but you can use the mod creator to make your own sea focused scenarios.

# ? Apr 17, 2015 21:34

Wolpertinger: Feb 16, 2011

Demiurge4 posted:

There are some undersea races and the mechanics exist for underwater PoI's but most agents can't enter the seas. None of the games scenario's focus on it but you can use the mod creator to make your own sea focused scenarios.

Perhaps some heavily sea-focused god can give the gift of fishiness to his agents, allowing them to be amphibious.

# ? Apr 18, 2015 00:22

Demiurge4: Aug 10, 2011

Fun bug from the forums for people excited about water stuff.

Dino Studios posted:

Bug of the Week: When choosing the coastline of an island to sink if that hex has the coast of another landmass it sinks both landmasses regardless of how large the other one is.

Update should be coming out shortly but I'm going to bed.

# ? Apr 20, 2015 00:49

Wolpertinger: Feb 16, 2011

Demiurge4 posted:

Fun bug from the forums for people excited about water stuff.

Update should be coming out shortly but I'm going to bed.

So can you like sink entire continents here?

# ? Apr 20, 2015 01:22

Zoe: Jan 19, 2007; Hair Elf

holy poo poo I just found this thread and why can't this game be out already??

# ? Apr 20, 2015 07:25

Josef bugman: Nov 17, 2011; Pictured: Poster prepares to celebrate Holy Communion (probablY)

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Zoe posted:

holy poo poo I just found this thread and why can't this game be out already??

Pretty much how everyone around here feels. Plus there is a bit of cross over between this and the Kickstarter thread.

It appears that the Guildmaster may have had a teensy bit of an art upgrade:

# ? Apr 20, 2015 07:39

Demiurge4: Aug 10, 2011

The new guildmaster art is loving fantastic.

New update!

Josh posted:

Project Update

We have wrapped up the bugs that were plaguing the front-end/back-end integration and we're happily moving forward. This means that I feel comfortable saying that the World Builder Mod Tools will be released this weekend and we'll be back on track for the beta right after that. It feels good having all the new political features working, there's definitely some bizarre AI behaviors but we'll address that during the Beta as opposed to before - mechanically everything appears sound. We've got a few smaller GUI screens to do that aren't a big deal, and then combat/war screens which are cumbersome but nothing that would introduce any bugs as both systems have remained pretty much the same as in the old build.

GUI GUI GUI

While we spent the majority of the time on the bugs that had come up we also had time to finalize some important elements of the GUI, and we're also about to put in our first order for some professionally done GUI elements. Now that the layouts and functionality are all locked in we can get some of the pieces we've been eagerly waiting for - for me my most desired components are definitely the pieces for our new heraldry system. Like I mentioned above there are still pieces left to be done but they aren't anything I anticipate causing delays (though I've said that before and been wrong.)

Enough Talk, Screenshots

Alright, well most of our work this week was on the rearranging some backend elements so we can't really show that - but since we primarily fixed the lingering political bugs lets look at the political screen as well as some of the others that were causing us grief.

This is one of the two Political screens you will see most often - this is the binary decision screen and often occurs when there are two different approaches to a problem with gradually less extreme options in between. The multiple choice option occurs when decisions are more open-ended, but works in a similar faction. Let's break down what we're looking at.

The screen displays all members who have an Influence of at least 10 - anyone below 10 has to give their influence to one of the 10+ members as part of a coalition or bloc. Generally you'll find entire classes (such as nobles) giving their influence to one individual, and smaller guilds will do the same. You can mouseover any individual to see a breakdown of where their influence comes from, and if you look at the picture provided the Duke in the lower right has the "Noble" coin icon in his lower left indicating he represents the nobles. Influence is a semi-limited influence, the number tends towards a total of 100 influence - notables plot against one another to gain influence and also may gain influence from performing actions that their society approves of. The Ruler can appoint a limited number of titles to notables creating adviser/administrative roles, the two nobles you see adjacent to the queen are her Marshall and Keeper. Titled nobles gain a bonus to influence on actions that concern them, if you were to mouseover the Marshal you would see he has a bonus 10 influence (which is substracted from the Ruler) because this is a military question. You will also notice that some notables will flash red during some issues, this reflects that they are heavily invested in this issue and want to get their way - if they do not they will generally lose some willpower and suffer a blow to relations with some of the other members who voted against them.

In a binary political screen the bar goes right (green), left (red), and can also be pulled "back to center" (white) - the maximum value on either side is 100 which represents the most extreme response. In this screen you can see that another nation has invaded one of this nation's POIs and is skirmishing with their garrison, this is called a "Crisis" and invokes an immediate response. Non-crises receive many days of debate allowing you to take further actions to sabotage. As a result of this crisis a vote occurs and for each marker it passes a new response is determined. Having crossed the first marker on the path to War the response is "Counterattack" - which is a measured response where the nation will attempt to dislodge the attacker and do some looting in their territory without trying to claim any POI. You can see that the Marshal and one of the Dukes are very interested in this issue, which comes from the Marshal being interested in military decisions and it is one of the Duke's POIs that is being attacked.

You can interfere with this vote in numerous ways - clicking on any notable will give you any options that are available such as blackmail, bribe, or call in favors. Any notable you control through corruption will vote the way you'd like, and you can split votes up between multiple notables so as to sew confusion and hatred. It's much easier to influence votes if you've corrupted people in advance, so properly putting in the time and effort to get yourself situated as a power broker will pay off in the long run.

So you can see we've followed our standard MO here - lots of nested information and multiple involved parties allowing for a lot of chaotic interactions and emergent gameplay that is boiled down to just the necessities so that if you want to ignore it you can just go ahead and click on one of the options without worrying. The other benefit we had when designing this process is that you only see the see these options if you have infiltration, if you were to see them for every nation all the time it would quickly become overwhelming but this way you only see what it is that you are focused on.

We had some questions about events and opportunities so we thought we'd show off the opportunities window, which had plenty of bugs due to our many changes. Opportunities, unlike events, occur while you are performing a challenge - they are often caused by the actions of other AI elements in your POI such as heroes, modifiers, or institutions. Opportunities tend to have a range of actions go from relatively innocuous to extremely blatant. In this sample we've posted you see what happens when you are in a dungeon simply minding your own business and heroes come in looking for loot. You can give them an extra danger, transfer an item to them stealthily (this is actually very strong), get some minor infiltration on their group, or just outright attack them. All heroes are shown on the left and Agents on the right, clicking on either opens up their full panel as usual so you can quickly gain access to relevant information needed to make your decision.

Mousing over the decisions will also give you a fuller description of repercussions such as fame and threat.

We had some questions about what other diplomacy there was besides factions, and a lot of them pivot around agents who can be troublesome (or useful) before you recruit them. Everyone is already familiar with The Baron and the convoluted process to recruit him, so we wanted to give you a sample of how these interactions work. They are very similar to Factions except a bit more straightforward - simply find the POI with that modifier and perform a very brief challenge, which will then allow you to interact with that group. The Court of Bone likes human (actually they prefer lizardmen) sacrifices, so you can see I've dragged a prisoner over which will raise their feelings toward me significantly. The Court of Bone is a great place to go if you have gained a Freak or Monstrous trait, they will take you in and give you the opportunity to learn some important skills.

While there are a good amount of these currently in the game, expect a lot more as we introduce the Lesser Evils and their brethren.

Schedule

Now that the tools have fallen into place I need to crank out some videos this week and prepare for the release this weekend. After the weekend we'll be taking stock of what is left on our plate pre-beta.

# ? Apr 20, 2015 07:59

Josef bugman: Nov 17, 2011; Pictured: Poster prepares to celebrate Holy Communion (probablY)

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Oh dear gods yes.

I am going to be turning places into paranoid courts filled with insane nobles and it is going to be fantastic.

# ? Apr 20, 2015 08:12

Fat Samurai: Feb 16, 2011; To go quickly is foolish. To go slowly is prudent. Not to go; that is wisdom.

Nice.

Any information about the flow and speed of the game? Waiting 46 turns for anything that isn't the Spell of Mastery (i.e. 'you win') seems a lot.

# ? Apr 20, 2015 08:16

Demiurge4: Aug 10, 2011

Fat Samurai posted:

Nice.

Any information about the flow and speed of the game? Waiting 46 turns for anything that isn't the Spell of Mastery (i.e. 'you win') seems a lot.

I asked about it on the beta forum because I felt the same about turn timers but apparently 10-20 turns is normal. Moving from one end of the map to the other can take many turns as you can only move one PoI per turn but no idea how many turns a game takes, my guess is around 500 turns.

# ? Apr 20, 2015 08:17

Josef bugman: Nov 17, 2011; Pictured: Poster prepares to celebrate Holy Communion (probablY)

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Demiurge4 posted:

I asked about it on the beta forum because I felt the same about turn timers but apparently 10-20 turns is normal. Moving from one end of the map to the other can take many turns as you can only move one PoI per turn but no idea how many turns a game takes, my guess is around 500 turns.

I take it a turn is only like a day or so? Because wow

# ? Apr 20, 2015 08:20

Mr. Unlucky: Nov 1, 2006; by R. Guyovich

game looks good, reminds me of Solium Infernum which is a favorite of mine. hopefully it'll come out soon.

# ? Apr 20, 2015 08:45

Ardryn: Oct 27, 2007; Rolling around at the speed of sound.

Josef bugman posted:

I take it a turn is only like a day or so? Because wow

They've gone back and forth on how long a turn is and seem to have settled on a month.

# ? Apr 20, 2015 08:54

Fat Samurai: Feb 16, 2011; To go quickly is foolish. To go slowly is prudent. Not to go; that is wisdom.

My main worry is the amount of stuff you'll be able to do. If you're going to have 4-5 active agents at any given moment, and most of the actions take them a minimum of 5 turns (I don't think I've seen a shorter challenge anywhere), there's going to be a lot of turns where your only action is passing.

I'd rather be able to do actions with less impact but quicker, so I can feel I'm actually getting poo poo done.

Of course, I have no access to the beta forums, so I'm probably wrong :shrug:

# ? Apr 20, 2015 09:07

extraordinary: Jun 9, 2011

Really pumped to finally get the modding tools. (Not as pumped as I'd be for beta but better than nothing.)

# ? Apr 20, 2015 14:06

Shbobdb: Dec 16, 2010; by Reene

I dunno, I think "low and slow" works for eldritch evil. As long as you can move through the passing turns relatively quickly, I like it. Gives the AI more stuff to do, makes your elder god more of a minor character (until all of a sudden you aren't).

# ? Apr 20, 2015 16:56

Pharnakes: Aug 14, 2009

I think the game world is big enough that something will be happening very turn, even if you can't do anything with it and it's just an intel report or whatever. Later on once your influence has spread you probably will have an action to take most turns, and it makes the world feel more granular and detailed I think.

# ? Apr 20, 2015 17:06

Zoe: Jan 19, 2007; Hair Elf

This is killing me because there's no way I can justify paying double to get in on the beta.

And yet I need too.

Perhaps I can make some kind of deal with a dark god to get more money...

# ? Apr 20, 2015 17:53

Hypha: Sep 13, 2008

No multiplayer right?

# ? Apr 20, 2015 17:58

FairyNuff: Jan 22, 2012

Pharnakes posted:

I think the game world is big enough that something will be happening very turn, even if you can't do anything with it and it's just an intel report or whatever. Later on once your influence has spread you probably will have an action to take most turns, and it makes the world feel more granular and detailed I think.

The devs did mention there will be events that occur too, so you'll still have things happening. Even more so if you have infiltration as you'll be able to see stuff going on.

# ? Apr 20, 2015 18:06

Josef bugman: Nov 17, 2011; Pictured: Poster prepares to celebrate Holy Communion (probablY)

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Zoe posted:

This is killing me because there's no way I can justify paying double to get in on the beta.

And yet I need too.

Perhaps I can make some kind of deal with a dark god to get more money...

Justify it to yourself as it being about the same that lots of people paid for Pillars of Eternity.

# ? Apr 20, 2015 19:28

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# ? Apr 26, 2024 20:05

The Moon Monster: Dec 30, 2005

After reading the latest update I've realized I'm never going to have any idea how this game actually plays until I either see a detailed LP or get to play it myself. Hope it doesn't take them too much longer to release the beta.

# ? Apr 21, 2015 01:49

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