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Davros1
Jul 19, 2007

You've got to admit, you are kind of implausible

The_Doctor posted:

For those who have missed this fantastic slice of 70s Space Disco:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4-A__lZrEA

The side links of which lead me to the complete Sapphire & Steel episodes, which I didnt know existed on Youtube. I'm watching the first episode/assignment, and it's really interesting stuff, and it's gripping in that Who-esque 70s way. I'm a little put off that the first assignment is apparently 2 hours 15 minutes long, but hey, I guess that's like a 6 parter Who story. It reminds me a lot of Hide, and things like The Stone Tapes, but I keep expecting the Doctor to show up, and he doesn't.

I'm guessing someone's proposed the 'Sapphire & Steel are Time Lords/CIA/etc' theory in the past?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dqah0bXh19E

Almost all of S&S are two and half hours long. It's very atmospheric, but you know you're in trouble when the creator of the show has said "I didn't know what the show was about".

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Astroman
Apr 8, 2001



For a fan in the 90s, the TV movie was huge. I'd started watching on PBS in the 80s, I was already a fan for a few years before it was cancelled in 89, and I'd latched onto the NAs to get my fix. Never dreamed it would come back.

In those days before the internet, I remember being shocked they got so much right. Having McCoy back was huge--a massive unspoiled thing I was not expecting. I'd gone into it thinking it would be a pure Americanized reboot that would suck, so my expectations were low. Also think a bit to the bar of 90s genre tv and tv in general and you can see it was actually pretty drat good. They also got a lot of the tropes right: the Police Box, two hearts, Master, Daleks, Time Lords. The half human stuff caused me to sperg a bit, as did the kissing (which seems tame nowadays when the line is so much more blurred on the idea of Doctor/Companion romance).

One thing which you don't touch upon in your review is how the TARDIS interior redesign paved the way for the expansive console rooms of the revival. Now we think nothing of it, but it was a big deal at the time. I was a bit put off by it, as I'd expected white roundels and this was Wrong. I'm sure there was much controversy on Usenet or wherever fans spoke online at the time. From hindsight it seems like a correct and wise choice on the part of the producers and set designers to upgrade the interior.

At the time I was very disappointed that they didn't bring it back, but when I read about the plans for the Ulysses stuff which would have completely thrown out the old canon, I was glad. I'm always leery of shows and their relationship to canon because of stuff like this: if I invest in a universe and it's history I expect it to be consistent, and the reality is most tv producers don't care. They care more now, as a lot of fans are making shows and the ones that aren't can see the value in retaining fans with proper canon, but 20 years ago not so much.

I could countenance the idea that they'd throw out the NAs because of the Roddenberry rule that Books Aren't Canon. But for them to rewrite the history of what we'd seen on the old show for some dumb new mythology rankled me. It's funny, because that aborted series' relation to canon was the polar opposite of the 2005 revival: the former disguised itself at first as a direct continuation, with a clear link to the last Doctor, Daleks, history, etc but over time would have thrown most of that stuff out or ignored it in favor of a true rebooted universe. RTD's show on the other hand came in with no clear links to the old show. It was a long time before we knew onscreen that this was, without a doubt, the same universe and history and not just a reboot which had some of the same tropes.

Wheat Loaf
Feb 13, 2012

by FactsAreUseless


The movie also has one of the best DVD commentary tracks (the one with McGann, McCoy and Nick Briggs).

adhuin
Sep 15, 2008

Rugged and authoritative looking


Wheat Loaf posted:

The movie also has one of the best DVD commentary tracks (the one with McGann, McCoy and Nick Briggs).

I'll have to track it down it then.

Is Anyone familiar with the revisitations boxed sets? Are they anything good? First one seems to include the McGann movie special edition.

The_Doctor
Mar 29, 2007

"The entire history of this incarnation is one of temporal orbits, retcons, paradoxes, parallel time lines, reiterations, and divergences. How anyone can make head or tail of all this chaos, I don't know."


adhuin posted:

I'll have to track it down it then.

Is Anyone familiar with the revisitations boxed sets? Are they anything good? First one seems to include the McGann movie special edition.

Yeah, they're great! All the original dvd extras, plus a bunch more!

Davros1 posted:

Almost all of S&S are two and half hours long. It's very atmospheric, but you know you're in trouble when the creator of the show has said "I didn't know what the show was about".

My working theory is now that they're Type 103 TARDISes. Sentient, humanoid in appearance, with powers but seemingly lacking in actual nous about humans.

The_Doctor fucked around with this message at Mar 29, 2015 around 19:14

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


Oh yeah, the TARDIS interior redesign was incredible - I loved it right from the get-go, though the look of the console itself hasn't aged too well over the last twenty years, the large living space with the comfy chair, shelves of books and old gramophone etc just seemed perfect (could have done without the mantel full of clocks though) and I'm glad the revival appears to have taken some cues in that respect.

And yes, the commentary is excellent, McCoy and McGann are lovely. I can't remember if my Special Edition DVD has it or not, but McCoy also filmed a really lovely video diary at the time of filming about saying goodbye to the role of CURRENT Doctor after all these years.

After The War
Apr 12, 2005

to all of my Architects
let me be traitor


The irony being that the iconography created for the TV movie (the TARDIS set, the costume, Eight's demeaon) was a perfect holding pattern for everything following that wasn't on the air. It finally loosed any remaining bonds with the dying days of the original series for novels, comics and, eventually, Big Finish. Going with a general historical, timeless feel made for a great holding pattern over the next eight years. McGann, too, always seemed the most timeless of Doctors equally comfortable and confused no matter where he was, a performance he (still) excels at.

In a way, we did get the best of both worlds. We may not have gotten the series back, but it made the remaining wilderness years so much more open and friendly than the NA era before it.

CobiWann posted:

Big Finish came up a LOT. Not only at panels with the actors, but there were a few panels about introducing people to the audios, and Terry Molloy and Nev Fountain had panels about acting and writing for Big Finish. And there was some spirited bar conversation as well between a few of us.

Your wife told you to go off and have fun. We took you to an alcohol fueled, IRL version of this thread. I'd call that a job well done.

And Terry Malloy pointed out, a few times, that he hasn't done any Big Finishes for a while. You know, like when a character is set to come back in the main series. Not that he's saying anything specific, of course, why would you infer that?

He also said that Davros is coming back in the near future in the main series.

CobiWann
Oct 21, 2009

There are lost episodes of course. Stories that were commissioned but never made. Or made but misfiled, post broadcast. Sheer incompetence, of course.

quote:

Your wife told you to go off and have fun. We took you to an alcohol fueled, IRL version of this thread. I'd call that a job well done.



What made this convention so special to me and the family were how INFORMAL the guests were. Nicola Bryant said at the tea this morning that there was a difference between a "small" Who only convention, where actors and actress could spend a bit of time with the guests off-panel and in the bar, and the bigger conventions where it just seems like an assembly line autograph signing. I definitely got the vibe that the guests wanted to be there in large part because of how great the fans are and how enthusiastic Whovians are (along with the paycheck), versus other sci-fi series gatherings where it sometimes comes off like the guests are there solely for a paycheck.

Illuen
Feb 18, 2011

All comedy is derived from fear.

CobiWann posted:



What made this convention so special to me and the family were how INFORMAL the guests were. Nicola Bryant said at the tea this morning that there was a difference between a "small" Who only convention, where actors and actress could spend a bit of time with the guests off-panel and in the bar, and the bigger conventions where it just seems like an assembly line autograph signing. I definitely got the vibe that the guests wanted to be there in large part because of how great the fans are and how enthusiastic Whovians are (along with the paycheck), versus other sci-fi series gatherings where it sometimes comes off like the guests are there solely for a paycheck.

This is how I felt throughout the entire thing. I was there with my mom, and while there were a few hiccups, especially on day 1 (from what I hear the Hotel was super lovely to the con, and they will be using a different one next year), but everyone was so exceedingly kind and sweet about the whole con. I saw stuff like McCoy pouring a guest a cup of water and one day I had a good 5 minute chat with Patricia Quinn about all sorts of topics. She was so sweet and accommodating my mom was wiping tears out of her eyes after taking a picture with her.

Cerv
Sep 14, 2004

This is a silly post with little news value.

Astroman posted:

if I invest in a universe and it's history I expect it to be consistent
lol nerd have you watched any doctor who ever?


am i the only person here who watched the TV Movie when it first aired and didn't give a poo poo about kissing?

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


Cerv posted:

am i the only person here who watched the TV Movie when it first aired and didn't give a poo poo about kissing?

My memory at the time was just in general being confused by it, like it just didn't make any particular sense to me why it would be there at all. The half-human stuff was far more annoying to me.

Cerv
Sep 14, 2004

This is a silly post with little news value.

Jerusalem posted:

My memory at the time was just in general being confused by it, like it just didn't make any particular sense to me why it would be there at all. The half-human stuff was far more annoying to me.

makes perfect sense. who wouldn't be kissing P McG given the opportunity?

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


Well that is pretty flawless logic, I guess.

The_Doctor
Mar 29, 2007

"The entire history of this incarnation is one of temporal orbits, retcons, paradoxes, parallel time lines, reiterations, and divergences. How anyone can make head or tail of all this chaos, I don't know."


Cerv posted:

am i the only person here who watched the TV Movie when it first aired and didn't give a poo poo about kissing?

I am King of the Wilderness Years nerds and saw it before it aired. It was released on VHS about 2 weeks before airing in the UK, and I went to HMV in Piccadilly Circus for the midnight sale of it, and got my copy signed by Geoffrey Sax, the director. I was 3rd in the queue. Jesus, I was 15.

I got home, watched it all before falling asleep. Watched about half of it again when I woke up, and then went to school very tired, but super excited to tell my two other friends who liked Who all about it. I may have jumped a little in telling them. I didn't give a poo poo about the kissing either.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1x4YzkeQEI

Cerv
Sep 14, 2004

This is a silly post with little news value.

haha, i remember my friend buying the prerelease VHS too. no idea if we watched it or i saw the broadcast.
tried to tell him to just wait in case it wasn't good.
that was several weeks' pocket money too.

Davros1
Jul 19, 2007

You've got to admit, you are kind of implausible

Cerv posted:

lol nerd have you watched any doctor who ever?


am i the only person here who watched the TV Movie when it first aired and didn't give a poo poo about kissing?

The kissing thing was a HUGE thing. I wasn't bothered by it because it made sense in context, but yeah, fandom was in a FUROR over it. As was the "half human" thing. And The Master being put on trial. And him being a snake. And Seventh dying like he did. And the motorcycle chase.

Or course, those fans were conveniently forgetting:

All the sex poo poo in the NAs. The kiss was far more tame than anything those books ever did (and believe me, the fans who hated the movie thought the NAs were the greatest Who ever)
The Master's trial. Why would the Daleks put the Master on trial, they asked? Probably because of the Frontier in Space/Planet of the Daleks stuff, was my guess.
The snake. That upset people a lot too, though it made sense if you were a fan of the show. The Master was always trying to cheat death. If he could shove his consciousness in a gelatinous snake to survive, he would totally do that.
Seventh getting shot. Complaints were why didn't he look through the scanner before stepping outside? Then again, how many episodes did he just rush out a soon as the TARDIS landed?
The motorcycle chase. "Americans put a car chase in Doctor Who! They're ruining it!" said fans who I can only guess had never seen Planet of the Spiders.

I remember one review by a NA author in DWM who bought the video, and said he went to bed disappointed after watching it, saying it "wasn't Doctor Who". Which made me shake my head. Guy wrote for the NAs, he had no position to claim the TV movie "wasn't Who" while working for Virgin.

Fil5000
Jun 23, 2003

HOLD ON GUYS I'M POSTING ABOUT INTERNET ROBOTS


Davros1 posted:

The Master's trial. Why would the Daleks put the Master on trial, they asked? Probably because of the Frontier in Space/Planet of the Daleks stuff, was my guess.

The Master's trial is a bit weird though, you must concede. If they're putting him on trial for the Frontier/Planet stuff, why would they let the Doctor come and collect his remains? The Master annoyed them a bit, the Doctor ruined their plans over and over and over again and made them blow up their homeworld.

The_Doctor
Mar 29, 2007

"The entire history of this incarnation is one of temporal orbits, retcons, paradoxes, parallel time lines, reiterations, and divergences. How anyone can make head or tail of all this chaos, I don't know."


Fil5000 posted:

The Master's trial is a bit weird though, you must concede. If they're putting him on trial for the Frontier/Planet stuff, why would they let the Doctor come and collect his remains? The Master annoyed them a bit, the Doctor ruined their plans over and over and over again and made them blow up their homeworld.

Yadda yadda Act of Master Restitution gubbins.

Fil5000
Jun 23, 2003

HOLD ON GUYS I'M POSTING ABOUT INTERNET ROBOTS


The_Doctor posted:

Yadda yadda Act of Master Restitution gubbins.

Ehhhhhhhhh. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy the movie for what it is, and I don't mind a lot of the other stuff that people seem to have problems with - 7's death is entirely fitting, the master would ALWAYS have an out even if it was being a snake, etc etc. It's just the "trial" and the "half human" bits that grate.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


Yeah, some people seemed confused as to why the Master was able to turn into a snake creature, but it wasn't like the classic series hadn't established time and again he'd been madly experimenting with bizarre ways to cheat death for a long, long time. Also, I just kinda figured the Master's eyes were still all weird and screwed up from his condition in Survival vv


Haha, they put in actual Dalek voices instead of the squeak-jury the actual movie used.

Jerusalem fucked around with this message at Mar 30, 2015 around 11:13

Ratspeaker
Mar 6, 2009

Your minds are too green
I despise all I've seen
You can't stake your lives
On a savior machine

I went to (Re)Generation Who in Baltimore over the weekend. It was my first Doctor Who convention, and it was amazing. It was a tiny little con in its first year, but somehow they managed to convince Colin Baker, Sylvester McCoy, Nicola Bryant, and Sophie Aldred to show up for it, and Tom Baker to Skype in. All of them are incredibly gracious and funny in person, especially Colin Baker. I'd always imagined him as being a bitter old man, but he seemed to genuinely enjoy his panels and had a great rapport with Sylvester McCoy. Sylvester McCoy played the spoons, Sophie Aldred took questions while walking around with a baseball bat, Tom Baker warned us against listening to the advice of old men, and I got my picture taken with the Sixth and Seventh Doctors. It was an amazing weekend

PriorMarcus
Oct 16, 2008

ASK ME ABOUT BEING ALLERGIC TO POSITIVITY


Saw Peter mulling about the building earlier in costume, bad news everyone: that shirt we all disliked is making a return.

CobiWann
Oct 21, 2009

There are lost episodes of course. Stories that were commissioned but never made. Or made but misfiled, post broadcast. Sheer incompetence, of course.

I think the one thing everyone agrees on about the TV movie is that casting Paul McGann as the Doctor was a good idea!

After The War
Apr 12, 2005

to all of my Architects
let me be traitor


Davros1 posted:

The motorcycle chase. "Americans put a car chase in Doctor Who! They're ruining it!" said fans who I can only guess had never seen Planet of the Spiders.

Haha , the motorcycle scene could have been slotted into any and every Tennant episode and no one would have blinked.

Fil5000
Jun 23, 2003

HOLD ON GUYS I'M POSTING ABOUT INTERNET ROBOTS


After The War posted:

Haha , the motorcycle scene could have been slotted into any and every Tennant episode and no one would have blinked.

Maybe if it was a moped or a segway.

Attitude Indicator
Apr 3, 2009


also, there was some motorcycle scenes in season 7, right?

MikeJF
Dec 20, 2003



Attitude Indicator posted:

also, there was some motorcycle scenes in season 7, right?

Matt Smith rode an antigrav motorcycle up the side of The Shard in London to burst in on the evil HQ.

Wheat Loaf
Feb 13, 2012

by FactsAreUseless


PriorMarcus posted:

Saw Peter mulling about the building earlier in costume, bad news everyone: that shirt we all disliked is making a return.

Oh, no. Not the speckled one they nicked from Noel Edmonds's wardrobe?

GonSmithe
Apr 25, 2010

Perhaps it's in the nature of television. Just waves in space.


Maisie Williams (Arya Stark on Game of Thrones) is going to be guest starring in season 9. Finally, an actually good young actor on the show!

josh04
Oct 19, 2008

oscar winning cinema enthusiast



^

And the starry shirt was great and nothing like the offensive mess that is Noel Edmund's day-to-day cult wear.

Sentinel Red
Nov 13, 2007
Style > Content.

Kinda is on the 'Horror' Channel right now and holy gently caress, this poo poo is so bad, I have no idea how you guys keep a straight face saying the old series are still worth watching. Or at least, the ones made in the 70s and 80s, I'll concede the 60s stuff does have a certain je ne sais quoi.

Rhyno
Mar 22, 2003

sorry doesn't bring
me back to life, Hal.


Cerv posted:

makes perfect sense. who wouldn't be kissing P McG given the opportunity?

Buy is it okay to, kiss Paul?

After The War
Apr 12, 2005

to all of my Architects
let me be traitor


Sentinel Red posted:

Kinda is on the 'Horror' Channel right now and holy gently caress, this poo poo is so bad, I have no idea how you guys keep a straight face saying the old series are still worth watching. Or at least, the ones made in the 70s and 80s, I'll concede the 60s stuff does have a certain je ne sais quoi.

Welcome to the Doctor Who Thread. You're going to have fun here.

Burkion
May 10, 2012

Changeman! And Not A Moment Too Soon!


Sentinel Red posted:

Kinda is on the 'Horror' Channel right now and holy gently caress, this poo poo is so bad, I have no idea how you guys keep a straight face saying the old series are still worth watching. Or at least, the ones made in the 70s and 80s, I'll concede the 60s stuff does have a certain je ne sais quoi.

You have to be able to ease your way into the era, though even for when it was made Who was pretty bad looking.

I'm a big fan of toku series of all eras so I'm pretty well used to super cheap production values.

The paradoxical thing about Who was that the longer it ran the worse it looked. The production hit a stride in the 60s and mostly kept that stride in the 70s. However as the decades went on, the costs of making a decent looking show rose, and the budget remained the same.

Rochallor
Apr 22, 2010


Sentinel Red posted:

Kinda is on the 'Horror' Channel right now and holy gently caress, this poo poo is so bad, I have no idea how you guys keep a straight face saying the old series are still worth watching. Or at least, the ones made in the 70s and 80s, I'll concede the 60s stuff does have a certain je ne sais quoi.

Have you made it to the fourth episode yet? If not, oh boy are you in for a treat.

After The War
Apr 12, 2005

to all of my Architects
let me be traitor


Burkion posted:

You have to be able to ease your way into the era, though even for when it was made Who was pretty bad looking.

I'm a big fan of toku series of all eras so I'm pretty well used to super cheap production values.

The paradoxical thing about Who was that the longer it ran the worse it looked. The production hit a stride in the 60s and mostly kept that stride in the 70s. However as the decades went on, the costs of making a decent looking show rose, and the budget remained the same.

The bigger paradox was that the less they had to work with, the more ambitious they got - Enlightenment would have been a nightmare to tackle even with a motion picture budget. It's always nice to hear people who worked on the show pointing out that it really should looked much, much worse but for the effort they put in working with essentially nothing.

Seeing the actors over the weekend really drove him the theatrical nature of the original series. Realism was never the goal, and accepting what's presented as standing in for a larger, more complex world the way you would a play helps a lot.

Now let's see if we can turn this into another "theatre is a dead art form" derail.

CobiWann
Oct 21, 2009

There are lost episodes of course. Stories that were commissioned but never made. Or made but misfiled, post broadcast. Sheer incompetence, of course.

After The War posted:

Seeing the actors over the weekend really drove him the theatrical nature of the original series. Realism was never the goal, and accepting what's presented as standing in for a larger, more complex world the way you would a play helps a lot.

Hearing Sylvester talking about just HOW much fun the pyrotechnics crew had on Remembrance of the Daleks was a hoot.

"So they set the explosions off...and when the dust cleared, three Daleks had been melted in half. Oh, and did I mention this was on the 60th anniversary of the Easter Rebellion? As we heard the sirens, the director said 'well, let's call it a day. Everybody? Please run."

The_Doctor
Mar 29, 2007

"The entire history of this incarnation is one of temporal orbits, retcons, paradoxes, parallel time lines, reiterations, and divergences. How anyone can make head or tail of all this chaos, I don't know."


CobiWann posted:

Hearing Sylvester talking about just HOW much fun the pyrotechnics crew had on Remembrance of the Daleks was a hoot.

"So they set the explosions off...and when the dust cleared, three Daleks had been melted in half. Oh, and did I mention this was on the 60th anniversary of the Easter Rebellion? As we heard the sirens, the director said 'well, let's call it a day. Everybody? Please run."

I remember that story being on the BBC nightly news.

Edward Mass
Sep 14, 2011



Hair Elf

Maisie Williams, who plays Arya Stark on Game of Thrones, will appear in the upcoming series. Despite my avatar's text, I've never watched the show.

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M_Gargantua
Oct 16, 2006

STOMPIN' ON INTO THE POWER LINES

Exciting Lemon

I'm unreasonably excited for that. She's a great actor on GOT and I think she'll do well on Who.

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