Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us $3,400 per month for bandwidth bills alone, and since we don't believe in shoving popup ads to our registered users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
«59 »
  • Post
  • Reply
Diabetes Forecast
Aug 13, 2008

Craptastic
Asslicious
It is for to waste
the time


I'm kinda wondering what classifies as an actual tantrum here

Like I'm not even really annoyed by what you're saying cuz y'know whatever I wasn't gonna post the boobie robot lady here at all but I did it because I thought your reaction would be really funny and I was right about that.
I also don't exactly see what you're saying about the art world needing to be cruel. I get that it needs to be when someone is reacting in a way like their art is amazing when it clearly isn't and they need humility, that's a thing that has to happen. But you're not really expressing anything other than flagrant disregard towards anybody that doesn't appeal to your interests in subject matter. you've yet to make an actual, structured claim as to WHY something is off, wrong, or bad in any way.
loga mira did, however. And that's good!

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Crap
Nov 3, 2012



all your women look like plastic dolls is pretty specific, like what more do you want, a breakdown of each body part

loga mira
Feb 16, 2011

WON'T SOMEONE PLEASE THINK OF THE NAZIS?

Diabetes Forecast
Aug 13, 2008

Craptastic
Asslicious
It is for to waste
the time


Crap posted:

all your women look like plastic dolls is pretty specific, like what more do you want, a breakdown of each body part

that wasn't even directed at me, and I'm the one making plastic dolls

Where exactly is it that I claimed not to want criticism here or whatever
Where am I claiming to be a good artist
Where am I claiming anything that's being alluded to???

Diabetes Forecast fucked around with this message at Jun 20, 2015 around 00:24

Nuns with Guns
Jul 23, 2010

....?


Colon Semicolon posted:

I'm kinda wondering what classifies as an actual tantrum here

Like I'm not even really annoyed by what you're saying cuz y'know whatever I wasn't gonna post the boobie robot lady here at all but I did it because I thought your reaction would be really funny and I was right about that.
I also don't exactly see what you're saying about the art world needing to be cruel. I get that it needs to be when someone is reacting in a way like their art is amazing when it clearly isn't and they need humility, that's a thing that has to happen. But you're not really expressing anything other than flagrant disregard towards anybody that doesn't appeal to your interests in subject matter. you've yet to make an actual, structured claim as to WHY something is off, wrong, or bad in any way.
loga mira did, however. And that's good!

i mean railing on about how ur totally cool w/ criticism as long as its valid criticism with redlines and detailed breakdowns and it has to come from a realy dealy artist to matter and they have to be super polite and neutral by your subjective reading while they do it is pretty classic da tantrum right there

Kanine
Aug 5, 2014


this whole thread is poo poo, all of you

Diabetes Forecast
Aug 13, 2008

Craptastic
Asslicious
It is for to waste
the time


Or it's just common sense rather than just expecting to go off of 'it looks like a barbie doll, fix it' and literally nothing else. You don't have to do all those things at once (according your lovely hyperbole) but atleast acting like a human being and not a prick certainly helps.

but here we are, bowing down to a special snowflake because they're upset at a picture of a lady with 4 boobs.

Troposphere
Jul 11, 2005


psycho killer
qu'est-ce que c'est?

first you try to discredit me as an artist because someone who criticizes you obviously couldn't be one, then you try to dehumanize me like one of your fuckbots (for being mean on the something awful forums, a place well known for its niceness) and call me a special snowflake for saying something anyone who has eyes could see. do you have any other deflections you'd like to try?

but you're not upset, oh no. that would be me

Nuns with Guns
Jul 23, 2010

....?


Colon Semicolon posted:

Or it's just common sense rather than just expecting to go off of 'it looks like a barbie doll, fix it' and literally nothing else. You don't have to do all those things at once (according your lovely hyperbole) but atleast acting like a human being and not a prick certainly helps.

but here we are, bowing down to a special snowflake because they're upset at a picture of a lady with 4 boobs.

look i'm not sure i like your tone Mr! if you're going to criticise the posting in this thread then i expect a civil tone and you should really put out detailed notations of every point you see as wrong or else i don't know if i can consider you credible at all

Fyadophobic
Dec 25, 2014



Oh, lots of activity in this thread since I was here last! Guess I'd better check out all the cool drawings people posted... oh.

I'm not particularly fond of the mega-titty robots, but it's kind of creepy how like 3 separate posters who all compose their text the exact same way as each other jumped down Colon Semicolon's throat about it at the exact same time.

Alaois
Feb 7, 2012



Colon Semicolon posted:

Or it's just common sense rather than just expecting to go off of 'it looks like a barbie doll, fix it' and literally nothing else. You don't have to do all those things at once (according your lovely hyperbole) but atleast acting like a human being and not a prick certainly helps.

but here we are, bowing down to a special snowflake because they're upset at a picture of a lady with 4 boobs.

why do robots need panties

Nuns with Guns
Jul 23, 2010

....?


Fyadophobic posted:

I'm not particularly fond of the mega-titty robots, but it's kind of creepy how like 3 separate posters who all compose their text the exact same way as each other jumped down Colon Semicolon's throat about it at the exact same time.

are u saying there's some kinda cultish anti-titty robot movement on the forums?

Troposphere
Jul 11, 2005


psycho killer
qu'est-ce que c'est?

obviously I bought other accounts to puppetmaster my nefarious anti-tittyrobot sentiment, because multiple people surely cannot find robot pubic mounds distasteful

Szmitten
Apr 26, 2008


It's kinda rude in the sense that you went from naught to gently caress you in one post with no prompting in a "post your art regardless thread" and not a "I'm specifically looking for critque" thread, a "Get tetchy at things I find distasteful" thread, or a "gently caress you we're not obligated to be nice about your drawing you little bitch" thread. If you want to be helpful, help the guy who posted right before you asking for help. Watch out though,they're depicting a naked woman. And it's anatomically iffy!

Szmitten fucked around with this message at Jun 20, 2015 around 08:23

Scribblehatch
Jun 15, 2013



Yes, Szmitten is the correct-est fellow so far.

Tropo, I don't think our subject matter interests one another. You have to realize this is okay. You wouldn't enjoy it if I were as antagonizing to your artwork with my own specific set of values. And I wouldn't do it, because turnabout is fair play. I'm not interested in addressing art the way you do. All I see is fury. I mean has this ever worked out for you? Shouting at people to change their stripes? I'm not closed to any idea, but the discourse has to be all peace and love, or it's never going to work.

I've been in real life critiques, and it's the capital reason I don't put much stock in your own story. Where I was, people pinned their works to a corkboard wall, sat back to look at them all, took turns getting to each others pieces, making civilized comments, making sure to have at least one thing they like and at least one thing they think could use improvement, but often more. And other people would pipe up if they heard something they agreed with. And, generally, improvement was had by all. I never saw one person crying. What I hear you describing sounds more like a crab barrel.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipg4EL_JUyE

Just some needlessly aggressive thing for people who want to get their crabby rocks off. "IT'S A DOG EAT DOG WORLD, MAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN." It's cute and edgy for a second, but not necessary. It's baggage. And I'm sorry that was your experience. It was bad luck, and you deserved better.

I would be more interested to discuss how I can get my poses to look less stiff and unnatural as Loga said. It is something I wrestle with. Until the other day I was going about the idea of gesture drawing totally wrong. And if he said something you meant, he got it across better.

Scribblehatch fucked around with this message at Jun 20, 2015 around 10:05

windex
Aug 2, 2006

One thing living in Japan does is cement the fact that ignoring the opinions of others is a perfectly valid life strategy.

Scribblehatch posted:

I would be more interested to discuss how I can get my poses to look less stiff and unnatural as Loga said. It is something I wrestle with. Until the other day I was going about the idea of gesture drawing totally wrong. And if he said something you meant, he got it across better.

Oh hey invite for constructive commentary let's show them how it's done.

You have some actiony drawings and they look pretty good. Let's talk about the others.

Drawing a standing character is almost always visually boring, and people doing mundane tasks (pool girls in an earlier photo) is also boring.

You can breathe some more life into things by setting up actions in your scene. Symmetry is bad, and theres a lot of it in the four armed girl. When you stand casually, you probably almost never have a completley righted spine, and your hips are probably never completley level, feet straight. She doesn't have legs, which makes this difficult to conceptualize, but reducing symmetry as if she did would help make her look more alive.

Use yourself as a guide, pay attention to how you stand, check positions you want to draw for comfort, since people won't generally sit or stand in an uncomfortable way for long.

Similarly, with the pool girls scene, drawing one of your girls losing balance removing her pants or something and the others reacting to that would basically introduce more asymmetry and frame a scene with more purpose.

The key is, you almost never in life see people in symmetric poses unless they're forcing it. Having your characters interact more also brings them more to life. The pool girls image is well drawn but everybody looks isolated and stiff.

You should also probably practice drawing fat people and others with less slender builds. This makes the symmetry thing way more obvious, too. Everybody knows a person that manages to be attractive and not stick thin, identify how that works in your mind, then draw some of those.

With that said, your linework is great and I like your backgrounds and color choices a lot. Just breathe more life into the characters.

I try to do all these things in my art that sucks but at least it looks pretty alive.

Humboldt Squid
Jan 21, 2006



I'm going to be honest here the robot furries are a bit much. Its kinda really very weirding a lot of people out. No more.

Troposphere
Jul 11, 2005


psycho killer
qu'est-ce que c'est?

I really have no interest in being nice to men who constantly objectify women in their art. if you guys drew anything at all besides unrealistically sexy fetishized women in painful looking sexy poses constantly and had any interest whatsoever in drawing things that don't get you hot and bothered maybe I'd be kinder but as it stands, nah.

this is my constructive critique: look at actual women when you draw. don't use porn and anime as reference. treat your female characters like people instead of mindless cheesecake and maybe you'll stop creeping people out.

Scribblehatch
Jun 15, 2013



Pardon?



I now officially feel entitled to good manners.

But really, you're the first person ever to act creeped out. I doubt I'll be running into many people like you, but I appreciate the concern.

Scribblehatch fucked around with this message at Jun 20, 2015 around 11:24

Alaois
Feb 7, 2012



Scribblehatch posted:

Just some needlessly aggressive thing for people who want to get their crabby rocks off.

"but what if YOU are the masturbaters"

Troposphere
Jul 11, 2005


psycho killer
qu'est-ce que c'est?

Scribblehatch posted:

Pardon?



I now officially feel entitled to good manners.

is this from your comic where you wanted the main character to be nude all the time so you could show off her sick pink pubes that even 4chan was like woah there maybe not do that

Scribblehatch
Jun 15, 2013



Troposphere posted:

is this from your comic where you wanted the main character to be nude all the time so you could show off her sick pink pubes that even 4chan was like woah there maybe not do that
You could read the comic and find out, now couldn't you?

This is the first time I've heard someone describe the creation story that way. I don't think it's very accurate.

Troposphere
Jul 11, 2005


psycho killer
qu'est-ce que c'est?

I'm simply going by your posts about how they wouldn't let you post it if she was nude and how it was totally ruining your artistic vision in the comics thread

what prudes. maybe the robot could use that buzz saw to cut off her clothes that'd be so hawt

Arthil
Feb 17, 2012

A Beard of Constant Sorrow


Troposphere posted:

I'm simply going by your posts about how they wouldn't let you post it if she was nude and how it was totally ruining your artistic vision in the comics thread

what prudes. maybe the robot could use that buzz saw to cut off her clothes that'd be so hawt

I'll admit that drawn art isn't exactly my thing, but all I've seen the past page or two is you raging until you're red in the face. You can make your point without coming off like an rear end. Yes Colon's stuff is a little odd, but to be perfectly honest you were the only one who seemed to be outright offended or weirded out by the material. Going back several pages you'll also see Scribblehatch has been posting art including a variety of subject matter, and yet you felt like it was appropriate to jump down their throat just because they shared something you didn't like.

Yeah, they probably should have just linked the NWS stuff as they had before. But that's not a reason to spew vitriol at them either. I feel like you should just take a step back, look at the situation when you've calmed down, and hopefully apologize for acting as if a couple of pieces of digital artwork had actually hurt you.

As for my own bit of small critique coming from someone who can't draw a damned stick figure, Scribblehatch I feel like the other artwork you've shared earlier in the thread is of higher quality.

Crap
Nov 3, 2012



digital fart thread

Troposphere
Jul 11, 2005


psycho killer
qu'est-ce que c'est?

this has been bubbling up for awhile and their response to my original critique was what pushed me to finally lay it out there. it is a subject that is personally important to me as a female artist and it needed to be said.

people seem scared to death to step on anyone's toes in this subforum and it's absurd-- I'm not going to apologize for being mean on the something awful forums, especially not when it's about someone's sex drawings.

if the mods disagree with my tactics they can probate me. I've said my piece.

loga mira
Feb 16, 2011

WON'T SOMEONE PLEASE THINK OF THE NAZIS?

As a side note, art really is all about "objectifying", "dehumanizing", and other such scares. You see a person as a collection of geometric shapes, color spots, muscles, fat, bones, hair. Sometimes you pay a random person to just sit around and be quiet. And moving down on the wikipedia article


1. Reduction to Body: the treatment of a person as identified with their body, or body parts;[2]
2. Reduction to Appearance: the treatment of a person primarily in terms of how they look, or how they appear to the senses;[2]
3. Silencing: the treatment of a person as if they are silent, lacking the capacity to speak.[2]

Hell, thats any figure drawing class. Of course the teacher will tell you to capture the model's various other implied qualities, but they still come from the artist's mind..

Crap
Nov 3, 2012



you know theres a difference between life drawing and skinny, white, big boob anime wifes, c'mon

loga mira
Feb 16, 2011

WON'T SOMEONE PLEASE THINK OF THE NAZIS?

According to the extremely watered down wikipedia article anime boobs drawn from imagination are better because at least you aren't actively oppressing someone while drawing them. Noones getting paid to essentially act like human furniture.

windex
Aug 2, 2006

One thing living in Japan does is cement the fact that ignoring the opinions of others is a perfectly valid life strategy.

Troposphere posted:

this has been bubbling up for awhile and their response to my original critique was what pushed me to finally lay it out there. it is a subject that is personally important to me as a female artist and it needed to be said.

people seem scared to death to step on anyone's toes in this subforum and it's absurd-- I'm not going to apologize for being mean on the something awful forums, especially not when it's about someone's sex drawings.

if the mods disagree with my tactics they can probate me. I've said my piece.

I was discussing this in PM's with Scribblehatch, and I'll explain to you what I explained to him because both of you have a point.

Nudity is a thing in art that is practically step 1, because it's anatomy, and anatomy is important. Getting this step down is a big deal for artists. And even doing it for one body shape is a major accomplishment. A lot of people get stuck in a rut here because they get positive feedback and it forms a loop. But...

His drawings aren't exactly pornography, and it's not like all he draws are girls sitting spread eagle. But the drawings with nudity lack diversity and focus (meaning, the images seem to be mostly about the nudity and not something else), which is also a thing.

I don't think he's intending to be offensive. I don't think you're trolling either. I do think you guys won't see eye to eye on this, and I do think it's a major derail that was spent mostly in anger and not productively.

I also hate the lack of diversity in many artists work and the art websites that contain nothing but generic nudity, risque poses, and junk. But, the first thing I draw when designing a character is a semi-clothed figure to get the anatomy laid out.

I have seen many people misstep in their personal art journey/curriculum and get stuck drawing naked ladies because it gets them positive feedback and fans. But it doesn't mean that all nudity is porn, or that all male artists that draw female nudity are doing so to objectify women.

But, your criticism is valid, and was echoed by two of us in addition to you. So, it was a valid point, made in an confrontational way, people got mad at words on the internet, and now this thread has a whole page of .

If you dropped the confrontational (even on SA...), your point would've been both valid and more difficult to dismiss.

Troposphere
Jul 11, 2005


psycho killer
qu'est-ce que c'est?

maybe, but I'm not trying to win a debate or anything, just voicing my opinion.

I have taken many figure drawing classes and draw nude women occasionally on my own time myself but there's an obvious difference between artistic nudity and using objectifying angles focusing on butts and tiny waists and unrealistically large racks (a lot of time in the same image which isn't even anatomically possible). it just shows what the artist thinks is important, and it certainly isn't the character, but the character's sexual organs. it makes it look like you don't give a poo poo about women and a lot of women find it gross and I don't think male artists even take it into consideration or realize they're doing it. this is why the whole hawkeye initiative thing was such a hit, it shows how ridiculous the whole situation is.

so I'll repeat: please look at real women when you draw. cheesecake is fine and good but have a tiny shred of self awareness. there are so many male artists that flood the field with stuff like this and it's exhausting and depressing.

loga mira
Feb 16, 2011

WON'T SOMEONE PLEASE THINK OF THE NAZIS?

Male artists constant.y draw porn all the time at every opportunity. Maybe girls too idk. So the real issue is what you share with others. Personally I believe artists should be able to show off anything without fear of castigation or that it may hurt them professionally somehow. That is, if they pick the right place and moment to do it. Anime boobs in a forum that's notoriously averse to such things: bad choice. Anime bbobs on Tumblr: good, fine. Then there's the issue of épatage… but if your intention is to shock ppl then don't act all offended, unless that's also part of the performance.

Basically let artists draw w/e they want and ask them to be socially responsible with how that present it, not with what or how they draw.

Edit: also the context of the artist's own work matters to me, I hate when illustrators who mainly do children's books go on to illustrate like Kama sutra in the same goddamn style thy use in kids books.

loga mira fucked around with this message at Jun 20, 2015 around 15:10

Fyadophobic
Dec 25, 2014



Arthil posted:

I'll admit that drawn art isn't exactly my thing, but all I've seen the past page or two is you raging until you're red in the face. You can make your point without coming off like an rear end. Yes Colon's stuff is a little odd, but to be perfectly honest you were the only one who seemed to be outright offended or weirded out by the material. Going back several pages you'll also see Scribblehatch has been posting art including a variety of subject matter, and yet you felt like it was appropriate to jump down their throat just because they shared something you didn't like.

This is correct.

Troposphere posted:

maybe, but I'm not trying to win a debate or anything, just voicing my opinion.
there are so many male artists that flood the field with stuff like this and it's exhausting and depressing.

This is unfortunately all too correct, but I think your rage is misplaced at this moment. There are threads on this forum better-suited to this kind of discussion than this one. However, I'm not in disagreement with most of what you've said here. And I'm sorry you had a bad experience with critique in the past.


I could be wrong here, but perhaps posting art in this thread should be a prerequisite to starting an argument. Couldn't help but notice that the posters who were the sauciest in this discussion were also the ones that haven't posted anything.

Pick
Jul 19, 2009



Grimey Drawer

Fyadophobic posted:

I could be wrong here, but perhaps posting art in this thread should be a prerequisite to starting an argument. Couldn't help but notice that the posters who were the sauciest in this discussion were also the ones that haven't posted anything.

Troposphere actually has art on this very page.

Fyadophobic
Dec 25, 2014



Pick posted:

Troposphere actually has art on this very page.

???

The only image files on this page are that achewood panel and Scribblehatch's pizzacutter robot thing. Is there something I'm missing?

Pick
Jul 19, 2009



Grimey Drawer

Fyadophobic posted:

???

The only image files on this page are that achewood panel and Scribblehatch's pizzacutter robot thing. Is there something I'm missing?

Yes.

Diabetes Forecast
Aug 13, 2008

Craptastic
Asslicious
It is for to waste
the time


Their avatar doesn't count they didn't actually post the full image

by that logic I post my art everytime I make a post but that doesn't mean anyone knows or cares.
Also I don't get how I'm 'objectifying' when I've only seriously shown like maybe 2 or 3 boobie robots the whole time I've been posting in CC. I try to vary my artwork alot and most of the things I draw aren't meant to be raunchy.

Diabetes Forecast fucked around with this message at Jun 20, 2015 around 15:58

cubicle gangster
Jun 26, 2005

magda, make the tea


Fyadophobic posted:


I could be wrong here, but perhaps posting art in this thread should be a prerequisite to starting an argument. Couldn't help but notice that the posters who were the sauciest in this discussion were also the ones that haven't posted anything.

I did this for Google recently. It's all digital, lot of painting over cgi. Do I have your permission to give someone a hard time about child birth hip tit robots.

http://36.media.tumblr.com/aa59e98d...v7ieo1_1280.jpg

Sharpest Crayon
Jul 16, 2009

Always Wag. Always Friend. Very Safety.


Grimey Drawer

Arthil posted:

Yes Colon's stuff is a little odd, but to be perfectly honest you were the only one who seemed to be outright offended or weirded out by the material.

This has been quoted twice now, and is simply not true. I was also creeped out by the combination of a big-eyed childlike cutesy faces on mechas that otherwise impersonated grown-up anatomy, but I said nothing. I couldn't quite articulate why it was bothering me.
I didn't mind the quadboob, though I did think "this would've been so easy to artistically censor with some conveniently placed hair flowing down the tits" when I saw it.


Here is some digital arts to confirm my validity as a digital artist, I am totes allowed an opinion on the subject.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Pick
Jul 19, 2009



Grimey Drawer

Arthil posted:

Yes Colon's stuff is a little odd, but to be perfectly honest you were the only one who seemed to be outright offended or weirded out by the material.

Seemed to be, because everyone else reads the room and goes and posts their finished digital art elsewhere, including the Daily Doodle thread.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply
«59 »