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So, I was wondering if there has been any goon commentary or experience on the system side of the Onyx Path Revised New 2.0 World of Darkness™. I'm curious because I've been going through nWoD stuff I picked up at the con, and finally cracked open God-Machine Chronicle, and it actually strikes me as an odd collision of design philosophies. On one hand you have the emphasis on stuff like story beats and encouraging people to play up their flaws, but then you have odd fiddly mechanics like tracking damage done to a improvised weapon by using it or how much damage a human shield can absorb. To some extent it feels almost like some sections of the rules are separately designed from others, or at least designed by committee, and a lot of it uses the good old nWoD evocative tone that often makes it hard to parse rules text. I don't mean to just dump on it, most of it feels positive and well thought-out, but I was curious as to what other folks thought of it. Does the conditions system run smoothly? It seems pretty complicated to track. Are there rules people find themselves not using? Has there been anything that seems really cool at the table that might not be obvious in the rules? I haven't seen a lot of discussion of how the actual play works out, and was curious to find out from people who have given it a whirl.
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Aug 17, 2015 08:55
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Gilok posted:I'm enjoying this argument because it isn't about Mage Don't you jinx this by even mentioning That Game. 
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Aug 24, 2015 22:16
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Nicolae Carpathia posted:It always gets there anyway. I wonder why that is. What the hell is it about Mage? It's a game so extremely confused to its purpose or premise that, given enough sourcebooks, it confirms to whatever preconceived interpretation the reader wants. Then two different readers meet, and have arguments.
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Aug 25, 2015 03:32
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No, it's not about being a wizard, I read Guide to the Technocracy, it's about fulfilling humanity's potential with awesome science.* * I super don't care save to provide an example of how easy it is to start this sort of fire.
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Aug 25, 2015 03:40
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Partly because King isn't a major influence on the World of Darkness, but mainly that the WoD is, at heart, about empowerment. Usually that's of the supernatural sort. The 2004 World of Darkness is a big shift in that it supports disempowering, mundane human-level horror at all. It's still not the core focus, though. The 1991 World of Darkness, on the other hand, had essentially zero support for that kind of play. In the exceedingly rare supplements you played a "normal" human, you were generally part of some badass organization like the Inquisition or Project Twilight empowered to stab or kick the poo poo out of monsters. The concept of being entirely disempowered was practically alien to the 1991 WoD.
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Aug 25, 2015 14:33
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I probably wouldn't have gotten into my current IRL group of 20 years if it hadn't been for WoD PbPs. Just because a lot of people can't hack it doesn't mean it isn't worthwhile. It might be very hard, but I've seen seen WoD function in just about every RP format there is. It's not a game like Hillfolk where the format flat-out doesn't function in PbP.
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Sep 14, 2015 12:23
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What have the various re-releases done regarding the end times metaplot stuff? Has it just been discarded, kicked forward, or what?
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Oct 12, 2015 11:10
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 I see the spirit of White Wolf lives on. Mind, I see how the traditional Masquerade attitude could lead to that weird LARP metaplot - basically, that the game should be laser-focused on the Camarilla power games, and anything else is a troublemaking aberration, so burn it down.
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Oct 12, 2015 22:44
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"Garou Conquistadores". Um. Wait, what?
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Oct 27, 2015 11:33
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Odin Loki Azrael... looks like I have a name for my next character. Thanks!
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Nov 4, 2015 19:12
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Got your placards ready: Just say NO to RAVNOS. We don't WANNA no FIANNA. SATYRS make us HATERS.
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Nov 10, 2015 21:41
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Will one of the antagonist factions still be made up of junkies in a wonderful blame-the-victim turn of logic? Really, the only way I'd have any trust in this project is if they took a copy of Autumn People and burned it as a display of good taste. (And probably Shadow Court, too. And Kithbook: Satyr. And Enchanted. And...)RocknRollaAyatollah posted:Did anyone else notice how all the artwork shown so far seems to be old artwork? I could be wrong about this but I'm pretty sure most of the stuff shown is from previous editions. They've reused the Tony Diterlizzi art at least twice since the first edition (in the second edition, and then for the kithbook covers), this would make it the fourth time if it goes in this book. But yeah, it's all old art.
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Dec 10, 2015 21:11
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 I should hope not, yeesh.
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Dec 10, 2015 22:32
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Kurieg posted:the W20 and CB20 shields were just the full tribe spreads. It would be hilarious if the Changeling one was some faerie stuff straight out of Brucato's fantasies. I like Rebecca Guay and don't even mind the piece but that would be a little odd to have in front of your GM every session. Wait. I just realized the reason they used that image is because that was the left side of the old 2e GM screen.  Oh, Changeling.
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Dec 10, 2015 23:08
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Loomer posted:Which was the junkie faction? I don't quite recall. You know, it took me a bit to remember where the hell I was pulling this from, and it turns out it's from the original Changeling, where it describes Autumn People as basically as either two types: passive addicts (not necessarily of drugs, but harmfully addicted) and authoritarian dream haters who hate dreams because uh reasons. Autumn People itself turned them into more "suits and jerks", for those seeking the challenge of confronting a baddie who's just a salaryman worn down by the 9 to 5. Though I can't help but think of comparisons between Beast and it's delight in harming people over mild transgressions and the delight changelings show in Autumn People for tormenting people for mild transgressions. unseenlibrarian posted:Man, Kithbook Satyr wasn't the bad one. At least not compared to KB: Pooka. I could definitely be mixing up the furry kiths. Satyr did have some dodgy merits, and also had a flaw called "Swarthy" (mainly because they didn't seemingly know what swarthy means...).
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Dec 11, 2015 06:59
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Kurieg posted:If C20 is just as bad I don't see this strategy working out for them. The difference is that Changeling: the Dreaming has hardcore fans that could give two shits about what the game has as long as they can play their favorite flavor again. They could print a napkin that said "Changeling: the Dreaming" that folded out into some reused Diterlizzi art and it'd sell. I've probably mentioned this before but I tried to sell off all my old World of Darkness books this year.. Changeling sold. Entirely. Even the GM screen. Even the CCG. You know what didn't sell? Wraith 2e. I had Shadow Court and Charnel Houses of Europe around the same price. I still own Charnel Houses of Europe. On a more positive note, it earned me the money to collect most of Changeling: the Lost, so there's that. Mors Rattus posted:You know what else was real bad? The Changeling section of Blood-Dimmed Tides. What, you weren't charmed by its blatant lactation fetish?
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Dec 11, 2015 07:34
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Mors Rattus posted:Why would you want to get rid of Charnel Houses, comma, the single best oWoD book? I mean that unironically. I was just scorched-earthing the whole line, I just don't see a future where I'd want to run any of the oWoD games.
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Dec 11, 2015 07:45
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Wyrm stuff is always treated as super banal because destruction leads to stasis, or something? It didn't make any goddamn sense.
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Dec 11, 2015 08:08
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RocknRollaAyatollah posted:Which didn't make any goddamn sense either because they talk about how the unseelie houses like to hang out with Black Spiral Dancers in hives and Sabbat packs. Well, in the core book it was like "well unseelie doesn't necessarily mean evil, it's just winter and darkness and stuff-" and then Shadow Court comes out and is "WHAT WAS THAT ABOUT MORAL RELATIVISM I CAN'T HEAR YOU OVER THE SCREAMS OF THE BABIES I'M STUFFING INTO MY GRINDER". It was really pretty astonishing.
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Dec 12, 2015 16:35
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How do you pronounce "CofD"? Is it "cee-oh-eff-dee"? Or is it "sof-da"? Or "cof-dee"?
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Dec 12, 2015 22:07
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I wish there was a way to preorder the physical version along with this, but alas, I'll probably be waiting until then.
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Dec 12, 2015 22:37
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Yeah, it's easy to forget at one point White Wolf was about 30% of the gaming market during the '90s, especially during the gap that TSR was becoming absent and d20 hadn't landed yet. They've never had that level of success with the ... chess set? Chess set.
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Dec 13, 2015 17:08
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If something does something first in fandom (comics, movies, RPGs) and does it to a moderate degree of success, it'll almost always overshadow later versions unless there's a very large gap between the two. Even Cee-of-Dee has a fairly constant feed of callbacks to the older game - not overwhelmingly so, but notably so. It can't really escape the shadow of the earlier version and, frankly, didn't really ever seem to try.Josef bugman posted:What happened to them then? Did the bubble burst or something? Well, you have to realize that it was a longer-term issue. Basically, all RPGs suffered during the mid-90s due to CCGs eating into their market share, and White Wolf was no exception. Then when the CCG boom burst, suddenly they were taking a loss on things like Rage and Arcadia. Which is why games like Wraith were cancelled, and Changeling was downgraded to their low-overhead imprint Arthaus. Moreover, they were just having diminishing returns on the World of Darkness games in general, and I don't think anybody can claim they were doing much but scraping the bottom of the barrel towards the end, even if some innovative books came out of it. Sales were consistently dropping, and the newer games weren't selling. Then d20 hit. Granted, White Wolf was one of the first to grab onto the d20 license - they got out their monster book before WotC's Monster Manual hit the shelves - and were pretty successful with it. But World of Darkness was hit again by that. If that wasn't enough, d20 started a downward spiral around 2003, and though they'd publish successful d20 material for awhile, it was another boom and burst. With both d20 and the World of Darkness failing... well. It was a desperate sort of logic that got the World of Darkness revised. CCP bought them, and though that was gravy for a few years, the recession of '07 led to them experimenting with PDF and then PoD before being essentially shuttered and refocused into the MMO, which was also shut down after many years of development. Pope Guilty posted:I thought I read somewhere that the rules weren't complete and it wasn't actually playable. It was a functional game, but the first printing of rules was a mess, some of which was fixed in the second printing. The real issues with Rage was that it just had wording issues all over the place, appallingly bad balance, and though it rarely had timing issues (most cards just took effect "when you played them") when it did it was a mess. But the game itself played very fast and was fun and simple when it functioned properly. Unfortunately it had other issues like horrifically bad card distribution. I just sold off my Rage cards this year, and though I had over 1500 cards from one expansion, I was still about 20 cards short of a set. It's had continued life in the furry community, though, and there were at least continuing fan expansions for awhile.
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Dec 14, 2015 04:46
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moths posted:Another strike against Rage happened somewhere around the Las Vegas (i think?) themed expansion. That release was actually a stealth second edition, which wasn't entirely compatible with the first edition. Well, the rights to Rage were sold off to Five Rings Publishing Group, who published it as Rage Across Las Vegas. As mentioned, it was incompatible with earlier sets - I particularly hated that you were now penalized for mixing tribes, as they brought in factional mechanics similar to Legend of the Five Rings. But what's worse, it was a part of Ryan Dancey's infamous Rolling Thunder program of monthly CCG releases, and when that was cancelled, Rage Across Las Vegas went with it. As mentioned, it's had a number of continuing fan expansions (NSFW for hippo tits), mainly for the original Rage. So if you want to play an ajaba or chulorviah deck, they have you all set. 
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Dec 14, 2015 13:18
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What, you didn't like Vicissitude 2: Terror of the Deep?
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Dec 14, 2015 13:23
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It had a few cute ideas but was either dull or disastrous otherwise.
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Dec 14, 2015 13:39
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Luminous Obscurity posted:Dang they didn't do a blurb for old changelings. I was hoping we'd smash cut to an obnoxious non-sequitur about peeing on carpets or w/e ONCE YOU REALLY LIKED POT WHAT HAPPENED TO YOU MAN YOU GOT OLD
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Dec 14, 2015 23:10
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Oh, and I goofed the link earlier today, the fan rage sets can found here. NSFW, once again. Hippo tits.
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Dec 14, 2015 23:48
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Pope Guilty posted:V:tES is coming back, as is the Elder Kindred Network As an LCG, right? I mean. Not as a CCG. That would be crazy.  I mean, I'm not sure I was even able to sell any of my V:tES this year, maybe this'll help me dump it. I always thought of it as "mechanically rigorous without actually being fun". Pope Guilty posted:They're going to crack down on unauthorized uses of their IP Will they finally do something about Dark Phoenix Publishing, then...?
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Dec 15, 2015 05:28
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Yeah I don't know how much penetration the classic wahd had in Europe, but trying to market it to a more international audience faces the issue with the abuse of foreign language seen in the previous games, as well as the ethnic / regional stereotyping. But it could just be mountains and molehills, I don't know if other countries care any more than we Anericans ever did.
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Dec 15, 2015 14:26
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The key problem with oWoD is that I could play it for the kitsch value, but if I run something I could get the same effect with a copy of Geist in one hand and Dudes of Legend in the other. I was never really into the whole cosmic war aspect. Nuwaad fits how I already ran things. Olwaad, however, is mostly just "Gooshy gooze! I remember that!"
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Dec 15, 2015 23:17
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But will they reach the 50 tattoo stretch mark?... that's an unfortunate turn of phrase, I suppose. (No, they won't.)
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Jan 10, 2016 07:00
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It's a neat idea, though, geez, that rubber band metaphor. 
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Jan 12, 2016 17:23
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Kurieg posted:Would you say it was a little bit... strained? It certainly is a stretch.
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Jan 12, 2016 17:44
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I think if you have to explain a metaphor, there's probably a better way of making your point. That being said, as long as I can homage the Demon Bear in Lost, I'll be happy. If not, I'm sure I can clawhammer it in.
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Jan 12, 2016 19:22
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It turns out it's mainly just a plagiarization of everything else MRH has done.
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Jan 22, 2016 08:05
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Maybe it's already been asked, but how are the new investigation rules in Chronicles of Darkness? What's been changed?
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Jan 26, 2016 13:39
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Yawgmoth posted:Yeah this is pretty much the most https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NG0PzrKvqP4
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Feb 14, 2016 18:17
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thing ever and if you don't like it you have Wrong Opinions.
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Ah, yes, the whole "Quantum Physics is maaagic!" bit. How very Deepak. Ultimately, it's sad for me to see. At its height, World of Darkness was surprising and exciting, written not always well, often quite badly, but with a lot of infectious enthusiasm even at its worst. It was modern and in tune with the times it was written in. Now it's just another schtick routine for old gamers to recapture their youth. Congratulations, World of Darkness. You've become Generation X's AD&D, how does it feel? Gilok posted:Frankly I don't think a video game would do a very good job of capturing the eerie, "you don't know what's going on" atmosphere of CoD. OWoD lends itself well to games like Bloodlines, but it would be really hard to capture stuff like Demon or Changeling in a video game, at least one that people would buy. Nah, it's possible; there are plenty of games that actually create such a mood, whether it's Silent Hill or Killer7 or even something like Outlast. Granted, those games probably have more limited appeal than an Werewolf MMO, but it's definitely possible with the right dev team.
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Feb 16, 2016 00:02
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Yeah, I don't think we'd see them do an MMO, it was just a topical example. Hopefully they'll get together with Obsidian on this as rumored.
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Feb 16, 2016 00:10
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