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Lycus posted:That one's wrong. Dany really doesn't have much of a climax in S3, which was a common complaint. Conquering and settling in Meereen happens in S4. I still stand by the rest of what I said. The choice of Tywin as a main character is extremely bizarre.
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Mar 31, 2016 12:44
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We've been hearing for years now that "Winter is Coming". Season 1 started in the summer and things have been gradually getting darker as winter approaches. It fits the narrative that poo poo is falling apart. I probably wouldn't expect any happy endings until at least spring time
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Mar 31, 2016 12:44
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meristem posted:Haha, you can see how I really want that subplot to be over. Not the main character, just the narrative focus. The first 4 seasons revolve around the life and times of Tywin Lannister. He's the one who commands Westeros. His death is a real marker of change.
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Mar 31, 2016 13:32
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Tywin spends the first two and a half books getting humiliated by Robb Stark, he then orchestrates one massive betrayal and promptly gets offed himself. The narrative in ASOIAF is so spread out and often disjointed there really isn't a single focal character, there is the overarching ice&fire plot that is basically only brought up in Jon and Sam's chapters but mostly every character just has its own story, when it comes to Iron Throne politics Tyrion is a much more central character than Tywin ever was even if Tywin holds more power within the world. The two most important characters as far as the overall plot is concerned have always been Dany and Jon but that doesn't really matter either.
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Mar 31, 2016 13:38
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Apoplexy posted:Not the main character, just the narrative focus. The first 4 seasons revolve around the life and times of Tywin Lannister. He's the one who commands Westeros. His death is a real marker of change. Narrative focus isn't exactly the right term. The narrative focus of Seasons 1-4 is the Starks vs. Lannisters conflict and how it destroys them both, the Starks having their institutional status be completely exterminated, and the Lannisters falling apart and turning against each other due to the preceding conflict causing huge gently caress off fault lines in their cohesiveness as a family unit. Tywin's death merely completes that arc as now the children of both families are left without their parents (Ned, Cat, and Tywin) and the political figureheads of their houses (Robb, Joffrey). CPFortest fucked around with this message at 14:01 on Mar 31, 2016 |
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Mar 31, 2016 13:59
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The Lannisters are still a somewhat coherent whole, though. Sure, Tywin, Joffrey and Myrcella are dead, and Tyrion is somewhere off, but Cersei, Jaime and Tommen still keep together. More or less. Remember that the show are not the books, and there is no 1:1 correspondence. Season 4 started Jon's and Dany's adventures in leadership, at the Wall and in Meereen respectively, and I think this places it together with 5 and 6 rather than 1-3, which had these characters moving around.
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Mar 31, 2016 14:21
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C-Euro posted:I haven't read past book 1 but I would say that season 5 definitely felt like all build up as well. When I got done watching the finale I remember posting here or telling a friend that I had just watched a 10-hour trailer for season 6 spread out over three months. This is literally book4+5. Like it felt like the trilogy was over and he just couldn't figure it out
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Mar 31, 2016 14:30
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Phi230 posted:In that one episode, Jaime straight up rapes Cersei on the steps whereas in the books IIRC that's the first time Jaime and Cersei see each other in a long time and basically jump one another. Try reading it again, keeping in mind that entire chapter is colored by Jaime's pov. The entire narrative is awash in sexualized violence, the show tones it down if anything. Clumsily.
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Mar 31, 2016 14:59
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meristem posted:The Lannisters are still a somewhat coherent whole, though. Sure, Tywin, Joffrey and Myrcella are dead, and Tyrion is somewhere off, but Cersei, Jaime and Tommen still keep together. More or less. The Lannister dynasty is dead though. Cersei is a Baratheon and so is Tommen. Even if Tommen were to die, the Lannisters have no claim to the throne. Tywin is dead. Tyrion has been exiled for the time being and is a criminal in Westeros. Jaime is a member of the Kingsguard and cant inherit or marry. While the name is still alive because there are hundreds of Lannisters, their dynastic power base is gone....also they are now broke. e: edited out a possible spoiler if they still exist.
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Mar 31, 2016 15:05
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TommyGun85 posted:The Lannister dynasty is dead though. Kevan Lannister still lives and should be in charge of the Seven Kingdoms for now, more or less. Unfortunately Kevan's son is Lancel which will surely be his undoing
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Mar 31, 2016 15:44
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C-Euro posted:I haven't read past book 1 but I would say that season 5 definitely felt like all build up as well. When I got done watching the finale I remember posting here or telling a friend that I had just watched a 10-hour trailer for season 6 spread out over three months. I'm saying everything being build up is book 4/5's only problem imo. Not much happens. If Season 5 has that problem too, it has other issues as well. Things that are damaging to the story. For example, how we have to ask ourselves why Sansa agreed to marry into the Boltons with no plan. The best answer you can give is she just isn't that bright. How Littlefinger doesn't know who Ramsay is when he's going around skinning people alive and why would he agree to marry Sansa to someone he doesn't know about? The answer is LF isn't that bright either. Why did Dany make the obviously dumb decision to have a public execution that would clearly lead to riots? Why did Dany make a big deal out of having a trial only to feed a prisoner to her dragons a few episodes later and then marry another against his will? The answer as far as I can tell is Dany is dumb and insane. Why did Stannis not struggle much with the idea of burning his daughter? It was a pretty immediate decision after his supplies got destroyed. The answer is he's as evil as Ramsay. Not only does it ruin Stannis, it ruins Davos for being such a bad judge of Stannis's character. We don't have to ask those questions in book 4/5. All we have to ask in the book is "Why is there so much filler? Why did it just abruptly end?" Ninkobei posted:We've been hearing for years now that "Winter is Coming". Season 1 started in the summer and things have been gradually getting darker as winter approaches. It fits the narrative that poo poo is falling apart. I probably wouldn't expect any happy endings until at least spring time It's not that it's not giving us a happy ending. It's that Season 5 gave us nothing but misery. (A lot of which felt very forced and unbelievable in order to deliver those moments - ex: LF and Sansa had to have their intelligence lowered. Ramsay had to have 20 invincible ninjas.) Book 5 gave us misery plus other stuff. some bust on that guy fucked around with this message at 16:31 on Mar 31, 2016 |
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Mar 31, 2016 16:10
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Ninkobei posted:Kevan Lannister still lives and should be in charge of the Seven Kingdoms for now, more or less. Unfortunately Kevan's son is Lancel which will surely be his undoing Everyone is going to be dead (hopefully) soon so it doesn't matter if you are a Lannister or not. The sequel, Game of Ice will be better. Summer is coming. Will ice baby get into a good school? Why do I have to keep telling you to take out the garbage and take the wrights for a walk. The hilarity will never end.
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Mar 31, 2016 16:20
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Super Ninja Fish posted:I'm saying everything being build up is book 4/5's only problem imo. Not much happens. If Season 5 has that problem too, it has other issues as well. Things that are damaging to the story. For example, how we have to ask ourselves why Sansa agreed to marry into the Boltons with no plan. The best answer you can give is she just isn't that bright. How Littlefinger doesn't know who Ramsay is when he's going around skinning people alive and why would he agree to marry Sansa to someone he doesn't know about? The answer is LF isn't that bright either. Sansa is a teenage girl raised by honorable parents with no idea how to survive in the Great Game on her own. Even tho Little Finger offered her a "choice" she really didn't have one. Little Finger had to dump Sansa somewhere that she'd be out of the reach of the crown as she's an accomplice to regicide. The Bolton's were a perfect choice to marry Sansa to as she's back in the north, owes LF for getting her there and out of kings landing and Roose understood that the only worthwhile part of being allied with the Lannisters was Tywyn so he had no qualms about accepting Sansa. Now the only way that LF could be considered stupid is if Ramsey is posting about his dick carving skin peeling fetish on Westeros Fetlife which doesn't exactly exist means that he probably keeps that poo poo mostly(outside the castle) on the DL. Which would explain why LF didn't know about it. And even more importantly his goal is to grab power not find Sansa a loving bride groom so you'd have to wonder if he'd give a gently caress either way. And why would someone have to be "invincible" to start some fires and ride their horses away?
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Mar 31, 2016 16:54
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Super Ninja Fish posted:I'm saying everything being build up is book 4/5's only problem imo. Not much happens. If Season 5 has that problem too, it has other issues as well. Things that are damaging to the story. For example, how we have to ask ourselves why Sansa agreed to marry into the Boltons with no plan. The best answer you can give is she just isn't that bright. How Littlefinger doesn't know who Ramsay is when he's going around skinning people alive and why would he agree to marry Sansa to someone he doesn't know about? The answer is LF isn't that bright either. Why did Dany make the obviously dumb decision to have a public execution that would clearly lead to riots? Why did Dany make a big deal out of having a trial only to feed a prisoner to her dragons a few episodes later and then marry another against his will? The answer as far as I can tell is Dany is dumb and insane. Why did Stannis not struggle much with the idea of burning his daughter? It was a pretty immediate decision after his supplies got destroyed. The answer is he's as evil as Ramsay. Not only does it ruin Stannis, it ruins Davos for being such a bad judge of Stannis's character. Almost none of these things were introduced in season 5. The show producers have outright stated the show Ramsay is not as well known as in he was in the books. Littlefinger would have very little way of knowing about his tendencies. Even if he did, Littlefinger made his fortune buying and selling women, and he destroyed a whole country to get what he wanted. Maybe he did know. Why would that have stopped him? Dany is impulsive and inexperienced, and yes, possibly insane (her dad is the Mad King, there's that whole line about the Targaryens and a coin flip). That's a clear part of her character. She's been killing people since season 1. Stannis burning his daughter was appallingly obvious and has been coming almost since she was introduced. Davos has been shown how lovely he is many times. Davos never got it, because he bought into the bullshit Stannis fed him. TommyGun85 posted:The Lannister dynasty is dead though. Besides Kevan still being around, Cersei is very much still a Lannister. All she would need to do is marry someone from a lower house and have a kid, and there would be a new Lannister line. I think she would be Lady of Casterly Rock right now if she wasn't Queen Regent. And Jaime being in the Kingsguard is reversible. Tywin asks him to leave. And we've seen one be released. Sure, it's dishonorable, but he's the Kingslayer already. Bobo the Red fucked around with this message at 21:40 on Mar 31, 2016 |
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Mar 31, 2016 21:32
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Na'at posted:Sansa is a teenage girl raised by honorable parents with no idea how to survive in the Great Game on her own. Even tho Little Finger offered her a "choice" she really didn't have one. He said "Say the word and we turn the horses around." It might not be true, but she didn't test him. She agreed to go when he told her to avenge her family, without asking how in the hell she would be able to do that. If she continued to fight against him and LF forced her into it, that would have made more sense. quote:Now the only way that LF could be considered stupid is if Ramsey is posting about his dick carving skin peeling fetish on Westeros Fetlife which doesn't exactly exist This is basically what he's doing. He flays entire families for not paying their taxes and hangs them on the walls for everyone to see as a message. He isn't keeping it on the DL at all. quote:And even more importantly his goal is to grab power not find Sansa a loving bride groom so you'd have to wonder if he'd give a gently caress either way. It's implied that he does because the show makes it point to tell us that he doesn't know Ramsay. Ramsay lies to LF saying that he wouldn't hurt her. LF believes him and relays that information to Sansa. The implication is that he's leaving her with Ramsay because he thinks that Ramsay is harmless. quote:And why would someone have to be "invincible" to start some fires and ride their horses away? Because the fires they would have to start is in the middle of a camp of thousands that they have to sneak into. They don't know the location of the food stores. Even if they found them, you would think they would have to be heavily guarded. How can they sneak in, rummage through the camp, find the food stores, burn them all, as well as burn the stables and seige weapons, and get out of these guarded areas without being noticed? It's contrived and lazy writing just so they could show a child being burned to death. Bobo the Red posted:Almost none of these things were introduced in season 5. Uh he could take a look around and take note of the skinless people hanging off the walls? Ask people in the north that are dealing with Ramsay? quote:Even if he did, Littlefinger made his fortune buying and selling women, and he destroyed a whole country to get what he wanted. Maybe he did know. Why would that have stopped him? I don't know if it would stop him or not if he knew, doesn't matter. The show says that he didn't know. Handing off a valuable piece to someone he doesn't know is not smart. quote:Stannis burning his daughter was appallingly obvious and has been coming almost since she was introduced. Davos has been shown how lovely he is many times. Davos never got it, because he bought into the bullshit Stannis fed him. Then why was everyone but you surprised by it?
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Mar 31, 2016 22:15
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I always got the impression, from the books at least, that LF actually does care about Sansa because he sees her as a stand-in for Catelyn, whom he couldn't have.
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Mar 31, 2016 23:04
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I always found it weird that Cersei is always referred to as "Cersei Lannister." We know from Catelyn Stark and Lysa Arryn that women take the surnames of their husbands in this land, but Cersei is never referred to as Cersei Baratheon. And then there's Joffrey wearing lions all over his clothes and having "from the houses Lannister and Baratheon" in his official titles. It's like the whole kingdom openly accepts that it's a sham marriage and the kids are bastards, even though it's supposed to be a hush hush thing.
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Mar 31, 2016 23:43
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It's because you don't take the King's family name when you marry him. She stayed Cersei Lannister but their children together are Baratheons.
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Apr 1, 2016 00:10
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Like, Margaery's married three Baratheon kings, but she's still Margaery Tyrell.
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Apr 1, 2016 00:12
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Kevyn posted:I always found it weird that Cersei is always referred to as "Cersei Lannister." We know from Catelyn Stark and Lysa Arryn that women take the surnames of their husbands in this land, but Cersei is never referred to as Cersei Baratheon. And then there's Joffrey wearing lions all over his clothes and having "from the houses Lannister and Baratheon" in his official titles. It's like the whole kingdom openly accepts that it's a sham marriage and the kids are bastards, even though it's supposed to be a hush hush thing. I think the idea is that you take a name if it's higher than yours. So Tully becomes Stark or Arryn because the those are one of the seven ruling houses, and the Tullys aren't. But Baratheon and Lannister (and Tyrell) are on the same level (even if one is ruling the Seven Kingdoms).
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Apr 1, 2016 18:42
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Bobo the Red posted:So Tully becomes Stark or Arryn because the those are one of the seven ruling houses, and the Tullys aren't. Tullys are one of the ruling houses. E: Well, not at the moment, but they were before the War of the Five Kings. Lycus fucked around with this message at 18:51 on Apr 1, 2016 |
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Apr 1, 2016 18:48
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In the books Lysa keeps the Arryn name after wedding Baelish.
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Apr 1, 2016 18:51
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Theory 1: You can pick your name! No stress. Theory 2: GRRM is inconsistent.
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Apr 1, 2016 20:14
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The custom is to take the husband's surname, when a lady keeps her name it's usually a statement, in Cersei's case the statement was basically a gently caress you to Robert and showing off about how her house is still richer and more noble than his, in Lysa's case she keeps the Arryn name because her power as liege lord of the vale draws from her deceased husband and house Baelish are practically nobodies. Joffrey emphasises the Lannister part of his heritage mostly for political reasons.
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Apr 1, 2016 20:56
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Lycus posted:Tullys are one of the ruling houses. The Riverlands aren't one of the Seven Kingdoms though.
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Apr 1, 2016 21:00
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Bobo the Red posted:The Riverlands aren't one of the Seven Kingdoms though. Yes they are, it's why the Freys being Tully bannermen was such a thing early in the show. The Seven Kingdoms are kind of like the Big 12. There's more kingdoms than just seven but everyone keeps the name because of tradition. Macdeo Lurjtux fucked around with this message at 21:39 on Apr 1, 2016 |
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Apr 1, 2016 21:35
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Macdeo Lurjtux posted:Yes they are, it's why the Freys being Tully bannermen was such a thing early in the show. When you got seven gods you better believe it sounds cool when you got seven kingdoms
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Apr 1, 2016 22:29
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Pretty sure it's the 7 kingdoms + the riverlands.
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Apr 1, 2016 23:56
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TOOT BOOT posted:Pretty sure it's the 7 kingdoms + the riverlands. They called it "making the 8" back in my day!
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Apr 2, 2016 02:08
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So is there any word on if season six will be available on any online streaming services? Or are they continuing with the Apple exclusivity like season five?
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Apr 2, 2016 02:55
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TOOT BOOT posted:Pretty sure it's the 7 kingdoms + the riverlands. In this day and age of google there's really no reason to argue over stuff like this. http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Seven_Kingdoms
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Apr 2, 2016 03:40
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Harveygod posted:They called it "making the 8" back in my day! Which is still confusing, since there are 9 regions! Hopefully they just skip the Iron Islands
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Apr 2, 2016 04:10
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MH Knights posted:So is there any word on if season six will be available on any online streaming services? Or are they continuing with the Apple exclusivity like season five? I believe HBO Now has become available on a lot of devices. So, no, I think you can access it for $15/month through pretty much whatever.
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Apr 2, 2016 04:19
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Xealot posted:I believe HBO Now has become available on a lot of devices. So, no, I think you can access it for $15/month through pretty much whatever. Oh that's all HBO Now is? Nice, I'm coming up on a year of having this cable subscription so I'm sure they're about to jack the price up on me.
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Apr 2, 2016 04:36
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C-Euro posted:Oh that's all HBO Now is? Nice, I'm coming up on a year of having this cable subscription so I'm sure they're about to jack the price up on me. HBO basically took all the people screaming why it loving sucked, actually listened, and fixed it. HBO Go is everything the original HBO streaming cluster gently caress should have been, but I'll give them points for actually fixing it. ED: It helps the recent stock market shifts mean programming networks can tell cable networks to suck a dick when they try to force the cable-binding now. Cable is losing it's clout at a sudden freefall now.
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Apr 2, 2016 08:16
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Xealot posted:I believe HBO Now has become available on a lot of devices. So, no, I think you can access it for $15/month through pretty much whatever. Yay I can finally watch the show as it airs!
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Apr 2, 2016 16:18
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So is that crowned white walker basically saying to Jon, "okay... but can you do this?"
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Apr 2, 2016 16:39
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I don't give a poo poo about celebrity couples or anything like that, but Kit Harrington and Ygritte dating IRL is loving adorable.
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Apr 5, 2016 02:31
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Ninkobei posted:except Walder Frey. he's going to outlive us all The Fidel Castro of Westeros.
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Apr 5, 2016 04:39
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Ninkobei posted:except Walder Frey. he's going to outlive us all Don't scare me. Despite the Mountain and Daario, the show has been mostly good with actors - even Peter Vaughan survived to his onscreen death. But if David Bradley dies before Frey gets his comeuppance....
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Apr 5, 2016 05:25
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