Let's Play Homeworld 2: Frigate Lost

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Rick_Hunter: Jan 5, 2004; My guys are still fighting the hard fight!
(weapons, shields and drones are still online!)

For all the poo poo the game gets for its bland story, messed up scaling, and bugs, it still holds a place in my heart for being one of the only games that does 3D space combat well.

# ¿ Apr 21, 2015 11:36

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# ¿ Apr 25, 2024 15:59

Rick_Hunter: Jan 5, 2004; My guys are still fighting the hard fight!
(weapons, shields and drones are still online!)

RBA Starblade posted:

Also I think the Pride of Hiigara needed something to break up its design, the Kushan banana looks way better because of the top part, imo.

I'm of the opposite opinion and like the Kushan Banana 2.0 better than the 1.0 version. The time between the two motherships shows a transition from novice spacefaring to those that have been doing it for some time - namely an exposed bridge structure. The changes make it look like they changed from a bridge area that gave fleet command a panoramic view of the immediate battlefield to a hardened bunker that's harder to breach and would not result in a catastrophic crew loss. Of course the same cannot be said for frigates and other capital ships - they still have the exposed bridge structure somewhere on the ship. In terms of human(oid) evolution, the transition from blue to black water navy will make builders think twice about an exposed bridge structure. You see this a lot in space animes especially Gundam.

I know this isn't the real reason why the ship changed in the sequel, but I like to think it is. :unsmith:

# ¿ Apr 28, 2015 00:52

Rick_Hunter: Jan 5, 2004; My guys are still fighting the hard fight!
(weapons, shields and drones are still online!)

Calax posted:

Please see my giant expository text dump from the back of the strat guide on the other page. The retcon was that instead of just building and upscaling the entire system, they simply upscaled the power conduits etc around the core because that stuff on the Khar Toba wreck was built for a much more efficient power plant. AND it wasn't even supposed to be on the Khar Toba in the first place, it was basically smuggled onto the ship, with their jumps making it look like they were using smaller drives.

I thought the whole point of the original Hiigaran exodus was that they weren't allowed to use warp jumps and the entire journey was using sublight drives. :confused:

# ¿ May 4, 2015 12:47

Rick_Hunter: Jan 5, 2004; My guys are still fighting the hard fight!
(weapons, shields and drones are still online!)

Willie Tomg posted:

Yeah, I feel like this is borderline begging the question, but Hiigara is getting nuked by a gigantic invasion fleet right now. The Vagyr are landing on smouldering, irradiated soil what used to be densely populated urban areas right now. If the war ended this second and everyone politely agreed to drop the matter and head on home, then even with space trade^TM and wizardly advanced scifi tech Hiigara would be optimistically in a Year Zero situation.

This is not an insurmountable obstacle to a really loving good story, but why oh why am I getting the feeling that the game just pretends none of the things it's said via missions and cutscenes fifteen minutes ago were said?

In this universe's scale, there's little a space bound fleet can do to a planet. Makan and the Vagyr don't have a stockpile of whatever the Taiidan threw down on Kharak so for all intents and purposes, it's a true siege where Hiigara is well-defended and stocked but is isolated and the Vagyr are waiting them out while banging on the walls.

Doesn't make sense at all but \/ :v:

# ¿ May 4, 2015 18:45

Rick_Hunter: Jan 5, 2004; My guys are still fighting the hard fight!
(weapons, shields and drones are still online!)

Willie Tomg posted:

See now that is one very credible way to approach the issue because landing a few million ground troops from orbit is no mean feat of logistics, but then this cutscene is written, illustrated and shipped:

and like, if those aren't nukes then they are several dozen kiloton conventional warheads being shot at cities and by the third mission the actual gameplay has the player casually obliterating Vagyr splinter fleets the size of the unit cap in HW1 so the size of the actual Hiigaran siege fleet is probably theoretically large. They could have addressed why the Vaygr aren't sealing the deal with a single sentence. They want to enslave or compel the surrender of the Hiigarans and not obliterate for cultural/religious reasons, or the Hiigarans burrow deep into the crust of Hiigara for a planetary defense in depth that nukes can't resolve, or Makaan is trying to bait out the flagship fleet for a final by periodically and spectacularly wiping out a few dozen thousand Hiigarans who still probably haven't gotten a hugely bountiful population after being reduced to a few hundred thousand by this point in HW1. Just... something! This isn't hard, the only asset you need to patch this hole with the assets currently in place is one **loving** sentence.

And I have no idea why this of all things is my sticking point and not, say, Gary-Sue Kaiju Spaceship Jesus. But in my quest to find two game-elements in HW2 that agree with each other, this is it. This is where I get off the bus, apparently.

Vivendi ran Sierra so hard into the ground and this game is a banner of how and why. In an industry full of very sad stories, that's probably in the top (bottom?) three.

If that's what you have to do to rationalize it, go for it man. I can only assume the Vaygr are waiting the Hiigarans out like a real siege because of BIG loving SPOILERS. I made peace with this story a long time ago so I don't really understand the hate that everyone gives the story. You know...scratch that. I understand why everyone thinks the story is bad because it is. But from the bottom of my heart I just don't really care about the story in the game. What really drew me to this game is a return to the gameplay that made HW1 fun. Luckily, I got my copy after the patch so I didn't have to deal with 20 Battlecruisers near Thaddis Sabbat (just 7).

This story may be pants on head retarded but in the end it has no real bearing on my life so I'll give the writers a lot of leeway to write their epic space opera even if there are a lot of holes. I'll just fill those in as I go on.

# ¿ May 4, 2015 20:51

Rick_Hunter: Jan 5, 2004; My guys are still fighting the hard fight!
(weapons, shields and drones are still online!)

nweismuller posted:

Where does it say this in the HW1 manual? I'm looking at the ship specs in the manual and I'm not seeing it.

Homeworld Shipyards says 150 crew for the old heavy cruiser, but it doesn't list a source.

Avatar-class Heavy Cruiser

# ¿ May 24, 2015 07:32

Rick_Hunter: Jan 5, 2004; My guys are still fighting the hard fight!
(weapons, shields and drones are still online!)

Dabir posted:

150 then, that's what I was thinking of. Easy mistake to make.

Yeah, no problem, I wasn't calling you out. I was giving the only confirmed crew number that I could find. I agree though that the Homeworld documentation doesn't really have exact numbers other than this one so they leave it up to your imagination. Also, if modern nuclear aircraft carriers have complements of 3000 to run their operations, imagine how much automation is being used in a HW1 carrier to limit the crew to 150 or less.

# ¿ May 24, 2015 21:00

Rick_Hunter: Jan 5, 2004; My guys are still fighting the hard fight!
(weapons, shields and drones are still online!)

Neophyte posted:

Hull breach. Hull breach.

That's totally a 'leak in starboard fusion chamber' moment.

# ¿ Jun 23, 2015 02:31

Rick_Hunter: Jan 5, 2004; My guys are still fighting the hard fight!
(weapons, shields and drones are still online!)

AParadox posted:

Sooo... did this mission got patched up at some point? I clearly remember having to fight 3 keapers at the same time, each with so much HP that you could barely chase one away via concentrated firepower of a maxed up fleet before he could toast a full hp destroyer and they always went straight for them or frigates. And I don't remember this much waiting time either...

I guess the patches didn't just fix the autoscaling nonsense in the latter missions.

That's strange b/c I remember this mission chewing through my cap ship fleet and the patch fixing the autoscaling. Instead of 20+ battlecruisers 2 missions from now, I only remember about 5-7.

# ¿ Jun 29, 2015 18:59

Rick_Hunter: Jan 5, 2004; My guys are still fighting the hard fight!
(weapons, shields and drones are still online!)

ZeeToo posted:

Wait, really? I mean, I know we just got our huge warship and you said that's the last one in the game, but it doesn't feel like we're nearly done.

I guess I speak for the entire thread when I ask: Would you rather this go on for a few more missions?

# ¿ Jul 6, 2015 09:52

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# ¿ Apr 25, 2024 15:59

Rick_Hunter: Jan 5, 2004; My guys are still fighting the hard fight!
(weapons, shields and drones are still online!)

an oddly awful oud posted:

Did you touch on the fact that mission 13 makes no sense, in that the Vaygr destroying the hyperspace gate before the Pride of Hiigara goes through would leave Makaan trapped in the center of the black hole cluster without all three cores to actually awaken Sajuuk?

Haha, oh wow. :psyduck:

10 years and I never even noticed this. Holy poo poo.

# ¿ Jul 29, 2015 17:55

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Let's Play! > Let's Play Homeworld 2: Frigate Lost