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hubel585
Mar 26, 2015

I LIKE BIG BULLETS
AND I CANNOT LIE


First, my name is Ed Hubel, cartridge and big bore experimenter/wildcatter.
I'll post info and pictures about the cartridge and related cartridge/gun work.
I use the word awesome in the title based on what one of your guys called it.
And if you want and have a liking and info and pictures for big bores
.585" and 24ga and up slug and paradox guns please join in.

If you've followed our work in the 12ga FH thread you've seen some info
our 585 HE cartridge and its development and testing. It is a 3.27" long,
belted straight case, with a .654" rim and belt diameter, and
a base diameter ahead of the belt of .634". Bore is .585" same as 577NE.

We have put it in all kinds of guns, and tested it with 650gr bullet over
3000 fps as heavy load to test the brass, and on down to moderate loads
tested for lighter game like deer and hogs and target fun, that we found
using some of 440gr- 540gr 58cal Minie bullets. We can use 750gr. 900gr
jacketed, up to 1100 gr cast, all weights of turned brass bullets.
Can use long pointed bullets for long range shooting.

First picture shows it next to 505 Gibbs, it has same overall loaded length as
a Gibbs. Any long bolt action that handles the Gibbs handles our case,
The cases holds up to 190gr ball powder under jacketed lead core
bullets and lead bullets in the regular loaded length for the four inch
.magazine boxes.. For single shots like Ruger #1s and break actions length is
no problem. It is in about 25 guns world wide and many more being
planned and built right along.

Second picture is part of the bullets and slugs that is available in .585"
size to use in this case. More types of bullets for this size bore than
any caliber over .458...Ed

.

.

hubel585 fucked around with this message at 02:54 on Apr 23, 2015

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Duckboat
May 15, 2012


hubel585 posted:



... target fun...


This must do amazing things to watermelons or water jugs.

TopherCStone
Feb 27, 2013

I am very important and deserve your attention


How many of these have you shot in a single session?

right arm
Oct 29, 2011



you make extremely cool stuff Ed

Ninja Rope
Oct 22, 2005

Wee.


Yeah that's really neat, too bad I'm such a wuss when it comes to big calibers. It looks like some of those bullets are cast and some are machined/lathed? I've always been interested in turning my own bullets on a lathe.

hubel585
Mar 26, 2015

I LIKE BIG BULLETS
AND I CANNOT LIE


Thankyou right arm..

Topher- I've shot 20 or so in 3 hours time. In earlier years testing all
bullet weights and powder types.Shoot a load, check case expansion,
go in and size, load it again, repeat. The first number of years up until
a year ago we had very few cases that I made by putting belt on
long Nyati basic brass. So I used same case 20-40 times. Here is a sketch
of how I built first cases. Put a belt step in the heavy part of the case
near the base so that belt length is .270" and then swage the sides
straight for the right dimensions needed.

.

Duckboat-Here is how it will do big pails of water.

.

Ninja- yes some are turned Barnes and CEBs, some cast, rest jacketed.
We setup guns so they have thick pads, extra weight, and
don't recoil too bad as long as we hold them tight.Most guys load
about 10% faster than 577NE factory loads. Real easy shooting those
considering that top loads are over 50% faster.Ed

hubel585 fucked around with this message at 01:52 on Apr 23, 2015

froward
Jun 2, 2014


How does this not violate US law about > .50 = destructive device?

Mad Dragon
Feb 29, 2004



froward posted:

How does this not violate US law about > .50 = destructive device?
The same way every other huge-bore Nitro Express caliber doesn't. It has a sporting purpose.

froward
Jun 2, 2014


Oh I did not know that! Thank you frend.

Basticle
Sep 12, 2011




Also from his posts in the big game thread I got the possibly mistaken impression hes from Australia.

*edit* thats probably not true.

hubel585
Mar 26, 2015

I LIKE BIG BULLETS
AND I CANNOT LIE


I'm from Brinton, MI. Folks call me the mayor, a little
4 corners farming community.

As for DD we applied for and got a sporting use exemption like
all others over 50cal have done that were not in place before the
GCA law. And all shot gun caliber are exempt.

The 585HE cases are made by Bertram in Australia and guys are building
guns quite fast over there. Here is one of the smiths there, who built the
first one on a Ruger #1, testing it. Allan Swann Gunsmithing,
Facebook site. That gun was built for the poster called Tankhunter over
on the AR forums and it killed the first Australian buffalo
killed with a 585HE....Ed


https://www.facebook.com/swanbarrels/videos

hubel585 fucked around with this message at 02:58 on Apr 23, 2015

Darth Freddy
Feb 6, 2007

An Emperor's slightest dislike is transmitted to those who serve him, and there it is amplified into rage.

I kinda want to hear the speed that you got out of all those loads especially the 1000 grain one. Also rifle pics!

Ninja Rope
Oct 22, 2005

Wee.


Thanks for the sectioned pictures of the case. I was actually about to ask how you form a belted case from a non-belted one and those diagrams made that clear. I didn't even know that was possible.

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

U like it


Ed this thread is ridiculously awesome. Thanks for joining our forum.

How did you get started in wildcatting?

hubel585
Mar 26, 2015

I LIKE BIG BULLETS
AND I CANNOT LIE


Ninja-- Yes it is possible as long as the case has enough thickness in
the lower sides. AS we are only cutting in .010" and that corner on the
cases I used was about .060", and I found some cases that wouldn't work.
I made 180 like that and that got our bunch started with doing a few guns
over a 8 year run, and now we have thousands to play with. Here
is a barrel of them.



Darth-In 585HE, 1000 grain top load 2400 fps. 750 gr top load 2800

Some of the guns--





hubel585 fucked around with this message at 11:26 on Apr 23, 2015

hubel585
Mar 26, 2015

I LIKE BIG BULLETS
AND I CANNOT LIE


Kommienzuspadt--- I 've been into internal ballistics study all my adult life,

Loved big bores and in the 90s finally had time to really do some wildcatting
starting with tame 458, then 585., helped with the 550 Mag,. helped with
12ga From Hell, others,did my 700HE, ..did 8 bore, and 4 bore in my own design
of falling block last few years. Here is 4bore. I built 4bore cases from 20mm brass.
It is 1" bore and cases match the ones Ken Owen had a guy make, by turning brass
stock, the a few 4bore double guns he built...Ed

hubel585 fucked around with this message at 11:32 on Apr 23, 2015

NosmoKing
Nov 12, 2004

I have a rifle and a frying pan and I know how to use them

Holy

Balls



Keep posting.

Any other wildcat developments?

I love poo poo like this.

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

U like it


Cripes. I just looked up the 12ga from Hell. How does that thing feel to shoot?

hubel585
Mar 26, 2015

I LIKE BIG BULLETS
AND I CANNOT LIE


The 12ga FH in our first gun we made for it, was a Savage 212.



Here is case made from BMG brass next to regular case, and it would
at the pressures we could run in the Savage 212, about 35,000 psi,
get a 610 gr bullet over 3000 fps, about the same power as my 585HE
running 650 gr at 3000 using full rifle pressures, 65,000 psi.
The 12ga FH whether in Savage or in the NEFs we did later,
shoot nice as weight them some, port them, use thick pads.



Other wildcats include a 2bore we made from 27 mm steel military
cases, used in aircraft fast firing cannons..
If I live long enough hope to get one done in a big falling block,
built like the 4bore one. Military case left, cut off to make
2 bore case 5" long in the center, and 06 on the right.



And all this is like technical redneck work, and we know we are rednecks
when a lot of our guns are singleshots and our '' safari car''
is a double. The Duck Commander lookalike guy is me. Ed

hubel585 fucked around with this message at 18:04 on Apr 23, 2015

I eats my spinach
Jan 16, 2005

'sup gordon

You look exactly like I had hoped and everything you've posted is the perfect combination of terrifying and awesome. Keep it up, please

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

U like it


What kind of equipment do you use to resize + shape such unconventional brass? Especially the 27mm AA cases... jeez. I'm also really curious as to how you go about re-building these falling block actions to take such massive amounts of kinetic energy...

Butch Cassidy
Jul 28, 2010



I don't have words for this thread. Between the batshit insane cartridges, the plaid, single-shot guns, and awesome deathcar, I am just in awe.

And I remember the 12 gauge from hell being one of the first wildcat projects I read about that made my jaw drop.

Herr Tog
Jun 18, 2011



Grimey Drawer

I am learning so much. Thank you.

Mad Dragon
Feb 29, 2004



hubel585 posted:

Here is case made from BMG brass next to regular case, and it would
at the pressures we could run in the Savage 212, about 35,000 psi,
get a 610 gr bullet over 3000 fps, about the same power as my 585HE
running 650 gr at 3000 using full rifle pressures, 65,000 psi.

Sixgun Strumpet
Feb 16, 2009

Heh, yeah, 'round here I call myself The Enabler. I suspect pretty much everyone wishes they could be me -- I'm kind of a big deal, you see.


hubel585 posted:

The 12ga FH in our first gun we made for it, was a Savage 212.



Here is case made from BMG brass next to regular case, and it would
at the pressures we could run in the Savage 212, about 35,000 psi,
get a 610 gr bullet over 3000 fps, about the same power as my 585HE
running 650 gr at 3000 using full rifle pressures, 65,000 psi.
The 12ga FH whether in Savage or in the NEFs we did later,
shoot nice as weight them some, port them, use thick pads.



Other wildcats include a 2bore we made from 27 mm steel military
cases, used in aircraft fast firing cannons..
If I live long enough hope to get one done in a big falling block,
built like the 4bore one. Military case left, cut off to make
2 bore case 5" long in the center, and 06 on the right.



And all this is like technical redneck work, and we know we are rednecks
when a lot of our guns are singleshots and our '' safari car''
is a double. The Duck Commander lookalike guy is me. Ed



I just want to say two things here:

The first is that you are awesome, never change.

The second is that (and I love this by the way) all your pictures somehow look like they were taken in 1982. It gives me this feeling that you are actually somehow posting with the aid of a time machine. As someone who loves old guns a little too much I think your pictures, however it is you are taking them, are absolutely perfect for illustrating what you are doing here.

Also, never change them.

Sten Freak
Sep 10, 2008

Despite all of these shortcomings, the Sten still has a long track record of shooting people right in the face.


College Slice

I eats my spinach
Jan 16, 2005

'sup gordon

Sixgun Strumpet posted:

The second is that (and I love this by the way) all your pictures somehow look like they were taken in 1982. It gives me this feeling that you are actually somehow posting with the aid of a time machine.

this hypothesis is supported by the inclusion of manual line breaks in every post. I like to think he's writing on an old mechanical typewriter attached to some sort of homespun device that beams his posts to 2015 via quantum entanglement

I eats my spinach fucked around with this message at 19:42 on Apr 23, 2015

Herr Tog
Jun 18, 2011



Grimey Drawer

Ed, don't worry they are not making fun of you. We are honestly not hating but appreciating.

Sixgun Strumpet
Feb 16, 2009

Heh, yeah, 'round here I call myself The Enabler. I suspect pretty much everyone wishes they could be me -- I'm kind of a big deal, you see.


Herr Tog posted:

Ed, don't worry they are not making fun of you. We are honestly not hating but appreciating.

I hope that's clear. I have had a huge grin on my face reading everything in this thread, I love all of it.

right arm
Oct 29, 2011



Herr Tog posted:

Ed, don't worry they are not making fun of you. We are honestly not hating but appreciating.

this guy is actually a hater, but I, am not

hubel585
Mar 26, 2015

I LIKE BIG BULLETS
AND I CANNOT LIE


Thanks folks--- and I am an old fashioned, old timer of 75 years.
No cell phone, no apps, don't pay attention to ads, etc.

To make the falling blocks we use big blocks of alloy steel, side view.
They are as strong as any big BMG action.This is the block partly done
being fitted into one piece thumbhole stock with a dummy tube in
it for doing the barrel channel. I may be the first gun nut to
put falling block actions in that kind of stock.



For the 2 bore steel case we can't size it. I just cut off the military case,
reamed the inside a little and got my 2 bore size, turned off the belt and
ended up with rimmed 2 bore case. Will do 25,000 ft lb loads
without expanding, so just load and fire, and repeat.No sizing needed.

For sizing the brass 4bore and other cases cases we made 2" and 1.5" threaded
dies for big ammomaster press and big walnut hill swage/reloading press.
In the background is my case spinner/lathe that I put the belts
on cases with and other case work.You can see some of the big dies.
For my 585HE 3 die loading die sets, Dave at CH4D makes them.Got bunch here
and some there in stock...ED

.

hubel585 fucked around with this message at 23:50 on Apr 23, 2015

Butch Cassidy
Jul 28, 2010



If I make it to 75 with a lathe as an essential part of my reloading bench, I will be a very happy man.

froward
Jun 2, 2014


penis bandana
Aug 6, 2008


I am so glad this thread exists.

Herr Tog
Jun 18, 2011



Grimey Drawer

penis bandana posted:

I am so glad this thread exists.

I'm pretty happy that ed exists.

NosmoKing
Nov 12, 2004

I have a rifle and a frying pan and I know how to use them

"What should I do today?"

"I know! I'll build a shoulder fired rifle with as much muzzle energy as an anti-aircraft cannon!"

Awesome

hubel585
Mar 26, 2015

I LIKE BIG BULLETS
AND I CANNOT LIE


Technically and legally the 8bore/8ga, 4bore/4ga, 2bore/2ga are shotgun
calibers.My 8g and 4ga have smooth barrels, if I build a 2ga it will be
smooth barrel. But they can be rifled, like rifled 12 and 20 gauges,
and are just shotgun calibers.. Our hopped up shotgun work is just
that. The extra names we give shotgun calibers is just a name,, the
barrel only needs stamped with the gauge.

Here is picture of our 4bore and a FBW Model L FB chambered
with our 585HE. That Model L is the first falling block I put in a one piece
stock, maybe the first in the world, and then I liked idea so well
I put my falling block actions for the 4 and 8 ga in one piece stocks



Here is our ultimate brass case 585, the 585 Hubel Super Magnum.
But it takes a bit a work/expense to make cases and has to use big
expensive BMG sized actions. So I concentrate my 585HE.



Oh and my 585HE makes a real nice Whisper cartridge, with a
long up to 1600 gr bullet at subsonic 1070 fps. Gives 4000 ft lbs the
most powerful whisper load, can be less weight, like 1200gr, 1000gr,800gr,etc
And can fire single shot in the 585 we put in the Enfield bolt actions,
if loaded out long, but can be loaded same length as a 750gr and
have enough powder room to get to 1050 fps easy. ..Ed

hubel585 fucked around with this message at 13:28 on Apr 24, 2015

thermobollocks
Jul 5, 2009

GET A DILLON

hubel585 posted:

Oh and my 585HE makes a real nice Whisper cartridge, with a
long up to 1600 gr bullet at subsonic 1070 fps. Gives 4000 ft lbs the
most powerful whisper load, can be less weight, like 1200gr, 1000gr,800gr,etc
And can fire single shot in the 585 we put in the Enfield bolt actions,
if loaded out long, but can be loaded same length as a 750gr and
have enough powder room to get to 1050 fps easy. ..Ed



not included?

Action Jesus
Jun 18, 2002



hubel585 posted:

Oh and my 585HE makes a real nice Whisper cartridge, with a
long up to 1600 gr bullet at subsonic 1070 fps. Gives 4000 ft lbs the
most powerful whisper load, can be less weight, like 1200gr, 1000gr,800gr,etc
And can fire single shot in the 585 we put in the Enfield bolt actions,
if loaded out long, but can be loaded same length as a 750gr and
have enough powder room to get to 1050 fps easy. ..Ed


My goodness.... please tell me that you have a suppressor for one of these beasts

Also, where do barrel blanks for such a thing come from? Are they special ordered through normal barrel suppliers, or do you do the gundrilling yourself? Or are there actual stocked products for huge bore, heavy wall barrels?

Thank you for sharing this awesome work

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hubel585
Mar 26, 2015

I LIKE BIG BULLETS
AND I CANNOT LIE


I have no suppressor, couple others are planning on them.

I shoot the big bullets slow just to test loads and noise,, in my regular chambers.

There are a few barrel makers that do 585 bores, We found the most economical
for us here in the US, McGowen...
Allan Swann does them in AUS, Pacnor and Krieger in US, couple more in the EU.

We had McGowen make us a huge bunch of heavy profile 585 barrels. Got a pile here,
McGowen got some. Some are contour profiled, some are straight blanks. 1 to 20 twist.

We have a few smooth barrels, And a few slow twist barrels with 1 to 48 twist,,
works good for hollow base Minie bullets. You can see dies and a few
of the cases in picture.



Barrels are 200 bucks. We have dies, CH4D has them, We have reamers.

We sell at our cost a package of barrel, 100 cases, die set,
for $750 including shipping.Ed

hubel585 fucked around with this message at 21:00 on Apr 24, 2015

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