Let's Wear Black: A Gothic Total War/Paradox Mega-LP

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NewMars: Mar 10, 2013

Give me an empire that is holy and roman!

# ? Jun 12, 2015 03:11

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# ? Apr 20, 2024 00:09

Tulip: Jun 3, 2008; yeah thats pretty good

YF-23 posted:

No King nor Emperor was fit to rule the Italian realm. The Central Roman state, having secured Italy from the Emperor of the west but under persistent siege from all sides and unable to pursue dreams of establishing itself as Empire in the Mediterranean entered a crisis of leadership as the purpose of the realm was uncertain. Without any practical source of legitimacy for the pretenders and under pressure from the heretic Goths and pagan Avars to the north, the Italian Romans found a common cause in defence of the faith, with the Bishop of Rome playing an increasingly active role in the state, culminating in a Great Compromise: the acceptance by the Roman Senate and the Italian nobility of the Pope as the highest authority in the realm.

The Western Roman Separatists start CK2 as the Holy Roman Empire, a theocracy under the Pope, who is Emperor over a number of duke- and king-level feudal vassals.

Honestly I was kind of hoping for a straight up Imperial Republic, but this is great.

# ? Jun 12, 2015 03:28

General Antares: Sep 5, 2011; There be corundium up in them thar asteroids!!!

They stood together against Avarian aggression but otherwise remained largely independent of each other.

# ? Jun 12, 2015 03:31

PBJ: Oct 10, 2012; Grimey Drawer

Gonna have to vote for orange, because gently caress the Pope.

# ? Jun 12, 2015 05:24

Merdifex: May 13, 2015; by Shine

Can we start flagchat for Holy Roman Empire

# ? Jun 12, 2015 05:29

AmyL: Aug 8, 2013; Black Thursday was a disaster, plain and simple.
We lost too many good people, too many planes.
We can't let that kind of tragedy happen again.

NewMars posted:

Give me an empire that is holy and roman!

DEUS VULT

# ? Jun 12, 2015 05:55

Lord Cyrahzax: Oct 11, 2012

Merdifex posted:

Can we start flagchat for Holy Roman Empire

I think cannibalizing this from Byzlp would be a good start:

# ? Jun 12, 2015 05:58

Empress Theonora: Feb 19, 2001; She was a sword glinting in the depths of night, a lance of light piercing the darkness. There would be no mistakes this time.

Lord Cyrahzax posted:

I think cannibalizing this from Byzlp would be a good start:

The Key-Rho was so great.

# ? Jun 12, 2015 06:04

Merdifex: May 13, 2015; by Shine

What about keys & chains of St. Peter w/ proper Latin Roman christogram

Or maybe a Catholic version of the Flag of Jihad

Merdifex fucked around with this message at 07:12 on Jun 12, 2015

# ? Jun 12, 2015 06:39

Hiveminded: Aug 26, 2014

YF-23 posted:

No King nor Emperor was fit to rule the Italian realm. The Central Roman state, having secured Italy from the Emperor of the west but under persistent siege from all sides and unable to pursue dreams of establishing itself as Empire in the Mediterranean entered a crisis of leadership as the purpose of the realm was uncertain. Without any practical source of legitimacy for the pretenders and under pressure from the heretic Goths and pagan Avars to the north, the Italian Romans found a common cause in defence of the faith, with the Bishop of Rome playing an increasingly active role in the state, culminating in a Great Compromise: the acceptance by the Roman Senate and the Italian nobility of the Pope as the highest authority in the realm.

The Western Roman Separatists start CK2 as the Holy Roman Empire, a theocracy under the Pope, who is Emperor over a number of duke- and king-level feudal vassals.

amazing

Throw another vote onto the pile, not that it even seems necessary at this point~

e: actually, I do have to ask what king-level vassal(s) would even be available in the chunk of Italy under Papal control; there's Sicily, but that would basically be like half the realm (or more?) under a king under the pope if de jure Kingdom of Sicily borders are used, which kind of really defangs the Pope and raises the question of why the vassal king stronger than his master would still be subservient.

Hiveminded fucked around with this message at 07:13 on Jun 12, 2015

# ? Jun 12, 2015 07:07

Drone: Aug 22, 2003; Incredible machine

Merdifex posted:

What about keys & chains of St. Peter w/ proper Latin Roman christogram

This is spiffy and it evokes a natural evolution from SPQR in my mind.

But why the upside-down crucifix?

# ? Jun 12, 2015 09:10

reignonyourparade: Nov 15, 2012

The upside down cross is associated with Saint Peter, who is also megapope prime.

# ? Jun 12, 2015 09:13

forkis: Sep 15, 2011

Casting my vote for maximum Papacy!

# ? Jun 12, 2015 09:44

Luhood: Nov 13, 2012

Well with Nestorianism out the window as a heresy and its own CK2 religion (I seem to remember most of us agreeing this was a logical step for the world), we do have a seat open for a third Christian Ideology. The very centralized Latin Catholicism under the Pope in the Roman Pontificate, the less secularly powerful but no less spiritually important Greek Orthodoxy under the Ecumenical Patriarch and in turn the Byzantine Emperor, and the very disunited and autocephalous Gothic or possibly Brytho-Gothic Arianism each with their own personal Atta (father in Gothic).

The only ones who fall outside of this dichotomy is the Hispanian Romans considering they are in a very peculiar position. They want to accept the Pope as the head of the Latin Church, but on the other hand being the true Roman Empire they obviously reject the Pope's claim to the title of Roman Emperor. A Catholic Heresy perhaps?

Luhood fucked around with this message at 10:38 on Jun 12, 2015

# ? Jun 12, 2015 10:35

Gantolandon: Aug 19, 2012

Luhood posted:

Well with Nestorianism out the window as a heresy and its own CK2 religion (I seem to remember most of us agreeing this was a logical step for the world), we do have a seat open for a third Christian Ideology. The very centralized Latin Catholicism under the Pope in the Roman Pontificate, the less secularly powerful but no less spiritually important Greek Orthodoxy under the Ecumenical Patriarch and in turn the Byzantine Emperor, and the very disunited and autocephalous Gothic or possibly Brytho-Gothic Arianism each with their own personal Atta (father in Gothic).

The only ones who fall outside of this dichotomy is the Hispanian Romans considering they are in a very peculiar position. They want to accept the Pope as the head of the Latin Church, but on the other hand being the true Roman Empire they obviously reject the Pope's claim to the title of Roman Emperor. A Catholic Heresy perhaps?

Wouldn't it be better to just make them start with an antipope?

# ? Jun 12, 2015 10:53

Merdifex: May 13, 2015; by Shine

Played around with the first design a bit.

Luhood posted:

Well with Nestorianism out the window as a heresy and its own CK2 religion (I seem to remember most of us agreeing this was a logical step for the world), we do have a seat open for a third Christian Ideology. The very centralized Latin Catholicism under the Pope in the Roman Pontificate, the less secularly powerful but no less spiritually important Greek Orthodoxy under the Ecumenical Patriarch and in turn the Byzantine Emperor, and the very disunited and autocephalous Gothic or possibly Brytho-Gothic Arianism each with their own personal Atta (father in Gothic).

The only ones who fall outside of this dichotomy is the Hispanian Romans considering they are in a very peculiar position. They want to accept the Pope as the head of the Latin Church, but on the other hand being the true Roman Empire they obviously reject the Pope's claim to the title of Roman Emperor. A Catholic Heresy perhaps?

I second Gantolondon, an antipope would suffice. It could be explained that they each follow same doctrine but the Hispanians believe that the pope shouldn't be a de facto controller of large territories and doesn't need temporal power over Christendom.

Some have suggested that Gothia be split into a few kingdoms, I suggest at least two, in that case each Gothic Arian king-level or above ruler will have their own autocephalic church leader and everyone within that kingdom will have that autocelaph as their religious head. The title could be Atta, Fadar, or Papa, if the "Father" title cognate is copied from the other churches. Presbyter was also used as a title. This was my suggestion I made earlier in the thread for how Gothic Christianity might work.

# ? Jun 12, 2015 11:19

YF-23: Feb 17, 2011; My god, it's full of cat!

The west Romans and east Romans have a lot in common though, and politically probably recognise each other as the legitimate continuation of the two halves of the Empire. The WRE would then probably not be in schism with the ERE, they'd probably both belong to the same Orthodox Nicene Christianity, in opposition to the Papist Christianity of the Italians.

The Schism happened primarily for political reasons (the Pope making a power grab and the Byzantines rejecting it) which then sought some piss-poor religious justification to back it up (fillioque); here it's the other way around, the WRE and ERE have really good political reason to overcome tiny doctrinal differences and remain united in faith against the Pope's massive overreach.

# ? Jun 12, 2015 11:45

GenderSelectScreen: Mar 7, 2010; I DON'T KNOW EITHER DON'T ASK ME; College Slice

Merdifex posted:

I don't see any way to make [Realm of St. Peter] work in-game.

There's a completely easy way of doing it. Name the title "Realm of St. Peter" and then in the landed_titles file you just add "short_name^* = yes" to the title entry. It's why it doesn't say "Empire of Byzantine Empire" for the Byzantine Empire.

EDIT: * = I'm not sure if that's the right code.

GenderSelectScreen fucked around with this message at 12:10 on Jun 12, 2015

# ? Jun 12, 2015 11:55

Ofaloaf: Feb 15, 2013

Lord Cyrahzax posted:

I think cannibalizing this from Byzlp would be a good start:

Hey, that design looks familiar. I bet whoever made that is a cool dude.

_{e: HGS check your PMs}

Ofaloaf fucked around with this message at 12:57 on Jun 12, 2015

# ? Jun 12, 2015 12:17

Rumda: Nov 4, 2009; Moth Lesbian Comrade

Yeah the T.R.A.I.T.O.R.S flag is literally the best option. Besides text doesn't go well with CK2 CoAs.

# ? Jun 12, 2015 13:10

A Buttery Pastry: Sep 4, 2011; Delicious and Informative!

I guess it doesn't matter, but I'm a fan of the HRE idea too, despite my earlier vote.

YF-23 posted:

The west Romans and east Romans have a lot in common though, and politically probably recognise each other as the legitimate continuation of the two halves of the Empire. The WRE would then probably not be in schism with the ERE, they'd probably both belong to the same Orthodox Nicene Christianity, in opposition to the Papist Christianity of the Italians.

The Schism happened primarily for political reasons (the Pope making a power grab and the Byzantines rejecting it) which then sought some piss-poor religious justification to back it up (fillioque); here it's the other way around, the WRE and ERE have really good political reason to overcome tiny doctrinal differences and remain united in faith against the Pope's massive overreach.

Yeah, the Pope claiming both spiritual and temporal authority would likely help paper over any potential differences between the Iberians and the Byzantines. Them being rather far apart, and on opposite sides of the HRE, would also mean that there would be little reason for a rivalry between the two, which would further cement their unity against the Pope, and thus give them reason to come to a common understanding on religious matters. Plus on a practical/thematic level I think it kinda works that the Popes have exchanged wide-ranging spiritual authority in the West for concentrated temporal authority. Since temporal and spiritual authority are much closer tied together in Romanian* Catholicism, the extension of spiritual authority would probably require some degree flexing temporal authority, meaning the Pope would be sort of a mix of an early Caliph and a Renaissance Pope.

*Too many drat Romes, so I stole the name from the other option.

# ? Jun 12, 2015 13:33

Ofaloaf: Feb 15, 2013

Rumda posted:

Besides text doesn't go well with CK2 CoAs.

c_roma disagrees :colbert:

I do like Merdifex's initial flag proposal, with modifications. It is a little cluttered; the St. Peter's Cross probably could be removed, and even though it was originally the cross of St. Peter there are certain Satanic connotations nowadays which I bet nearly everyone thought of when they saw that initially, so that's another reason for it to go.

The design also needs some empty space and repositioning to work properly as a CK2 flag. The 'center' of coats of arms as seen within the game is actually several pixels above dead center in the raw graphic. As some vanilla examples, below are the flags of d_osterreich (seen in game as an even red-white-red horizontal tricolor) and k_jerusalem (which in-game looks like its golden cross is dead center inside the shield):

What looks to be the center of the image in-game isn't actually the center of the graphic in reality. Unmodified, the proposed flag design would look 'low' in-game, and its edges would disappear beyond the edges of the shield used to contain flag designs in CK2.

# ? Jun 12, 2015 13:39

TTBF: Sep 14, 2005

YF-23 posted:

No King nor Emperor was fit to rule the Italian realm. The Central Roman state, having secured Italy from the Emperor of the west but under persistent siege from all sides and unable to pursue dreams of establishing itself as Empire in the Mediterranean entered a crisis of leadership as the purpose of the realm was uncertain. Without any practical source of legitimacy for the pretenders and under pressure from the heretic Goths and pagan Avars to the north, the Italian Romans found a common cause in defence of the faith, with the Bishop of Rome playing an increasingly active role in the state, culminating in a Great Compromise: the acceptance by the Roman Senate and the Italian nobility of the Pope as the highest authority in the realm.

The Western Roman Separatists start CK2 as the Holy Roman Empire, a theocracy under the Pope, who is Emperor over a number of duke- and king-level feudal vassals.

I mean it's not even really a contest at this point. My main concern is that outside of Crusades the Papacy won't really attempt to expand any.

# ? Jun 12, 2015 14:22

A Buttery Pastry: Sep 4, 2011; Delicious and Informative!

Ofaloaf posted:

I do like Merdifex's initial flag proposal, with modifications. It is a little cluttered; the St. Peter's Cross probably could be removed, and even though it was originally the cross of St. Peter there are certain Satanic connotations nowadays which I bet nearly everyone thought of when they saw that initially, so that's another reason for it to go.

The Papacy is the Whore of Babylon, the Satanic associations are entirely appropriate.

TTBF posted:

I mean it's not even really a contest at this point. My main concern is that outside of Crusades the Papacy won't really attempt to expand any.

You say "outside of Crusades" like the Pope wouldn't have potential crusade targets in every direction. Alternatively, might it be possible to add knightly orders in the vein of the Teutonic Knights to spread the good word.

# ? Jun 12, 2015 14:29

Randarkman: Jul 18, 2011

TTBF posted:

I mean it's not even really a contest at this point. My main concern is that outside of Crusades the Papacy won't really attempt to expand any.

I guess you could go with my idea which is to restrict the HRE to low enough crown authority to allow its vassals to always be able to declare their own wars of expansion, which would at the very least allow them to expand against weaker countries. Maybe also vassalize some holy orders to the vassals to boost up their manpower or something, or just give catholicism a bunch of holy orders in general.

e: Or a different more powerful version of this is to give the pope one king level vassal, who is the liege of all other secular rulers in the HRE, ensure that this vassal can wawge wars outside the realm and the HRE might be able to expand while still being ruled by the Papacy. Mabye call this king something like the Divine Legate or something stupid like that, to represent his position as the leader of the Pope's armies, and make the title elective.

Something like this for the organiztion of the HRE maybe. In which case the Divine Legate and holy orders will be able to wage wars of expansion in the name of the Pope outside of Crusades, provided crown authority is sufficiently low.

code:

                                                   Pope
                                                     |
                                                     |
                           --------------------------|---------------------------------------
                           |                         |                                      |
                    Holy Orders                      |                              Lords Spiritual
     (Mostly in the northern borderland)             |        (Bishops ruling major population centers well removed from the heathens and heretics to the north)
                                                     |
                                            "Divine Legate" (Elected)
                                                     |
                                                     |
                                                     |
                                    Dux-level feudal vassals and below
               Mostly controlling castles in north and central Italy and the hinterlands of the south

Randarkman fucked around with this message at 15:11 on Jun 12, 2015

# ? Jun 12, 2015 14:42

Chatrapati: Nov 6, 2012

dublish posted:

Combine the Western Roman Empire and the Western Roman Separatists into one empire with Byzantine laws. This was just another civil war for them, and the "Separatists" are clearly dominant in 450. The Avars come in later and settle the Po valley, but are unable to capture Rome itself. The Western Roman Empire begins CK2 as a strong naval power in the western Mediterranean, but has lost much of north Italy and controls little of the interior of Iberia.

I like the idea of a unified Mediterranean state. The Roman Empire comprises of the lands around Rome, Sardinia, Corsica, The Beleares and a little bit of Catalonia, The Emperor struggles to rule over such a fractured realm and it is splitting at the seams due the vast cultural differences between the residents in Rome proper and the residents everywhere else. Sicily and Calabria are ruled by the Africans, who have suffered none of the barbarism of the North, they are rich and powerful; Apulia is ruled by the Byzantines who took advantage of the unstable reunification; The North is full of petty Italian Princes whose ancestors disagreed with the terms of the unification, and an Avar Khaganate ruling from Veneto.

# ? Jun 12, 2015 15:45

Luhood: Nov 13, 2012

Gantolandon posted:

Wouldn't it be better to just make them start with an antipope?

Merdifex posted:

I second Gantolondon, an antipope would suffice. It could be explained that they each follow same doctrine but the Hispanians believe that the pope shouldn't be a de facto controller of large territories and doesn't need temporal power over Christendom.

D'oh!

That's a much simpler idea than making it a Heresy! I retract my previous suggestion.

YF-23 posted:

The west Romans and east Romans have a lot in common though, and politically probably recognise each other as the legitimate continuation of the two halves of the Empire. The WRE would then probably not be in schism with the ERE, they'd probably both belong to the same Orthodox Nicene Christianity, in opposition to the Papist Christianity of the Italians.

The Schism happened primarily for political reasons (the Pope making a power grab and the Byzantines rejecting it) which then sought some piss-poor religious justification to back it up (fillioque); here it's the other way around, the WRE and ERE have really good political reason to overcome tiny doctrinal differences and remain united in faith against the Pope's massive overreach.

That said, I now prefer the idea of them actually being Orthodox. I mean, at 450 the western and eastern traditions were very similar despite their differences. More importantly they didn't reject each other's traditions, unlike what they've done with the very Temporally Powerful Pope. Hence having Hispania be Orthodox makes more sense than them being Catholic with an Anti-Pope I'd say.

# ? Jun 12, 2015 16:51

Rumda: Nov 4, 2009; Moth Lesbian Comrade

So were going to have at least 4 major branches of Christianity then Arianism Hispanic orthodox Italic Catholicism Ethiopian orthodox and possibly a variant of Nestorianism.

# ? Jun 12, 2015 17:50

TTBF: Sep 14, 2005

A Buttery Pastry posted:

You say "outside of Crusades" like the Pope wouldn't have potential crusade targets in every direction. Alternatively, might it be possible to add knightly orders in the vein of the Teutonic Knights to spread the good word.

I don't know how much modding could fix this, but religions have preset kingdoms they can holy war for. They may be limited in targets and assistance due to normally Catholic and Muslim lands being held by other denominations of Christianity.

# ? Jun 12, 2015 18:31

Rumda: Nov 4, 2009; Moth Lesbian Comrade

Not limited just weighted. Besides France is weighted pretty heavy as are the Spanish kingdoms

# ? Jun 12, 2015 18:37

TTBF: Sep 14, 2005

And it looks like those kingdoms are going to be held by Christians. Coptic and Orthodox rulers can't have crusades called against them. I don't imagine Gothia's branch would be very different in that regard but that's up to the LPer.

# ? Jun 12, 2015 18:46

BwenGun: Dec 1, 2013

It might be the case that if there aren't strong/dangerously expansive rival religions to contend with that Christianity might well become a lot more fratricidal than was the case in the OTL. I dunno if it's possible in CK2 but different Christian doctrines being able to holy war/crusade against one another would be interesting to watch if, for example, Islam either never appears or is limited in its expansion thanks to a powerful Persian empire or if the German/Northern/Eastern European Pagan realms are either converted in the interim or are far less powerful due to depopulation and internal conflicts than the expanse of territory they control would indicate.

# ? Jun 12, 2015 19:09

YF-23: Feb 17, 2011; My god, it's full of cat!

Rumda posted:

So were going to have at least 4 major branches of Christianity then Arianism Hispanic orthodox Italic Catholicism Ethiopian orthodox and possibly a variant of Nestorianism.

Something I think is worth considering: with Axum holding Egypt, they have an open channel of communication with the Mediterranean. I would imagine that not being nearly as isolated would have an effect on their religious differences with the more mainstream Nicenes. Would they participate in ecumenical councils? Would they adopt orthodox Christianity? Would elements of Ethiopian Christianity get adopted into the Nicene mainstream? These are all questions worth pondering.

# ? Jun 12, 2015 19:17

Merdifex: May 13, 2015; by Shine

Ofaloaf posted:

c_roma disagrees

I do like Merdifex's initial flag proposal, with modifications. It is a little cluttered; the St. Peter's Cross probably could be removed, and even though it was originally the cross of St. Peter there are certain Satanic connotations nowadays which I bet nearly everyone thought of when they saw that initially, so that's another reason for it to go.

The design also needs some empty space and repositioning to work properly as a CK2 flag. The 'center' of coats of arms as seen within the game is actually several pixels above dead center in the raw graphic. As some vanilla examples, below are the flags of d_osterreich (seen in game as an even red-white-red horizontal tricolor) and k_jerusalem (which in-game looks like its golden cross is dead center inside the shield):

What looks to be the center of the image in-game isn't actually the center of the graphic in reality. Unmodified, the proposed flag design would look 'low' in-game, and its edges would disappear beyond the edges of the shield used to contain flag designs in CK2.

True, here's the first one modified to fit properly:

I really want to keep the inverted cross in, not only because St. Peter was an important dude, but also because:

A Buttery Pastry posted:

The Papacy is the Whore of Babylon, the Satanic associations are entirely appropriate.

And I think doesn't work as well for the HRE as much as it does for a Holy Order of sorts, being a Catholic version of the Al Qaeda flag, with a Catholic version of the Shahada and everything:

# ? Jun 12, 2015 19:47

Randarkman: Jul 18, 2011

I'm not sure how good it would look but shouldn't it be it be imperial purple? With the Pope having taking on the role and position of the Roman Emperor and all.

# ? Jun 12, 2015 19:54

Ofaloaf: Feb 15, 2013

VOTING IS CLOSED

And, by my counting, YF-23's Holy Roman Empire proposal wins with 31 votes. Good stuff! The next session will begin shortly.

Merdifex posted:

True, here's the first one modified to fit properly:

I really want to keep the inverted cross in, not only because St. Peter was an important dude, but also because:

Seems good!

# ? Jun 12, 2015 19:57

Ofaloaf: Feb 15, 2013

_{*If you are unsure of what the proper procedure for voting or what the hell even this thing is all about, please refer to the introductory post on this highly intellectual symposium.}

Session III: The fate of the Western Roman Empire

The Western Roman Empire fared very, very poorly during the 5th century, but did not wholly die out. The Imperial court relocated to Sardinia, and a string of forts and cities in southern Hispania remained loyal to the government. In Cordoba, a string of Hispano-Roman tyrants maintained their own realm independent of the WRE, and northern Hispania was largely in the hands of local petty polities. The Iberian Peninsula was in a chaotic state, but all chaos settles down eventually. By the 8th century, a new order was being established.

"[img posted:

http://lpix.org/2083511/onionface2.png[/img]"]The fragmented situation of the 5th century remained steady through to the 8th century. The political breakdown gradually became the basis for a new system of alliances and independent states. There was some notional pledges of loyalty to the Roman remnant in the south, but effectively nobody outside of the coastal towns of Baetica answered to the Emperor anymore. The tyrants of Hispania eventually became the Kings of Corduba, recognized by the Imperial government, and acted as a buffer between the weak but legitimizing Imperial Roman remnant to the south and the powerhungry, squabbling magnates of northern Spain.

Spain will be divided into three parts: The southern coast and Sardinia will belong to the Western Roman remnant, central Spain will be dominated by a Kingdom of Corduba, and the remainder will be controlled by a mix of independent dukes and counts.

"[img posted:

http://lpix.org/2083512/onionface3.png[/img]"]Western Roman fortunes revived in Hispania, and much of the peninsula eventually rejoined the empire. Despite the drastic weakening of the Western Roman Empire, the other fragments of Spain were weaker, and what's more, they all squabbled incessantly. Julius Caesar's maxim was 'divide et impera', but Spain needed very little dividing for Imperial forces to be able to conquer it.

Spain will largely be controlled by the Western Roman remnant, which'll probably be renamed 'Hispania' or maybe just the 'Caralian Empire' as a sort of Spanish Byzantine Empire sort of thing, since the WRE capital at the end of Attila was Caralis.

"[img posted:

http://lpix.org/2083510/onionface1.png[/img]"]The Western Roman Empire died a quiet death, and Spain was controlled by Hispano-Roman successor kingdoms. The Western Roman Empire's decline continued unabated, while local Hispano-Roman magnates managed to consolidate their power into several major blocs. No one power controlled the peninsula, and all realms present in the mid 8th century were modestly-sized kingdoms larged based upon old divisions of Iberia.

The WRE will cease to exist altogether, and Iberia will be dominated by realms like the Kingdom of Lusitania, Tarraco, Gallaecia, etc.

"[img posted:

http://lpix.org/2083516/onionface7.png[/img]"]MY SCHEME! I HAVEN'T TOLD YOU MY SCHEME YET!

Well, spit it out!

This session will run for exactly 24 hours (1 day) from the time of this post.

# ? Jun 12, 2015 20:01

reignonyourparade: Nov 15, 2012

YF-23 posted:

Something I think is worth considering: with Axum holding Egypt, they have an open channel of communication with the Mediterranean.

It's really not that much of a change, since Ethiopian Christianity followed Coptic Christianity which had the exact same open channel of communication.

Edit: Tentative support for

reignonyourparade fucked around with this message at 20:04 on Jun 12, 2015

# ? Jun 12, 2015 20:02

THE LESBIATHAN: Jan 22, 2011; The name Daria was already taken.

This dude knows what's up.

# ? Jun 12, 2015 20:08

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? Apr 20, 2024 00:09

Randarkman: Jul 18, 2011

Yeah this dude seems about right by me.

# ? Jun 12, 2015 20:09

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Let's Play! > Let's Wear Black: A Gothic Total War/Paradox Mega-LP

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