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Mr.Morgenstern
Sep 14, 2012

NewMars posted:

What religion is romano-britannia? Hellenic? Christian? Celtic?

Hellenchristic?

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Anticheese
Feb 13, 2008

$60,000,000 sexbot
:rodimus:

Hellenic romano-britannia would be a glorious clusterfuck in CK2.

NewMars
Mar 10, 2013
Great, now I want some weird syncrentic mixup religion for CK2 romano-britannia. Like what people in the 19th century thought celtic/insular christianity was, instead of the debate about tonsure that it really was.

PBJ
Oct 10, 2012

Grimey Drawer

NewMars posted:

What religion is romano-britannia? Hellenic? Christian? Celtic?

It usually spawns with Graeco-Roman paganism, and since the only other major religion in the region is Celtic paganism, it can't really get any weirder/more badass.

Ofaloaf
Feb 15, 2013

Maybe use Mithras for Britain, if they remain a major pagan power until the end of the game? otoh that's more work for me. Probably going to just end up integrating some Paradoxian's enhanced Zoroastrian and Hellenic Paganism mods, and then build more on top of that, since it seems likely that both religions are going to be more dominant here (even after maybe fudging a bit of Christianization over the 300-year jump), so that'll be fun times getting that all to work proper.

It's very tempting to brush over religious differences and switch some places over to different faiths, though. Diplomacy outside of a religious group is a lot more limited, and if Europe is too religiously fragmented, then there won't be many other realms for us to play diplomacy with.

Kinfolk910 posted:

What are the bonus objectives actually?
tbh I keep not paying attention to them at all. For the 400-420 section, I think the bonuses involve sacking three cities, conquering Sarmatia or Dacia, and allying with either the Huns or Eastern Roman Empire.

Raserys posted:

Gotcha covered. At least at a base level, I pretty much stole the names from the IB wiki, so alter as you like. You know, assuming they survive.

I'm so proud of the Brits and really hope the Saxons don't ruin their moment in the sun.
I used both links already to create slightly tweaked versions of those cultures already, stripping out a few repeat names, linking up a few more names together and trying to make up more dynasty names with whatever sounded half-decent.

I tried making up a bunch of cultures before starting the LP, in the hope that some potential outcomes could actually be anticipated and I could just plop in some ready-made stuff without having to spend extra time between Attila and CK2. Some of them will probably end up being used, but plenty of others won't.

Randarkman
Jul 18, 2011

Ofaloaf posted:

It's very tempting to brush over religious differences and switch some places over to different faiths, though. Diplomacy outside of a religious group is a lot more limited, and if Europe is too religiously fragmented, then there won't be many other realms for us to play diplomacy with.

You could maybe play around a bit with the religious groups? Say instead of having a "Christian" group as is the case with vanilla CK2, you could replace that with a "Roman Cults" group that includes Christianity as well as Roman and Celtic paganism (hopefully for the latter there is some mod that makes use of hindu mechanics so you could portray people following the Isis cult, Magna Mater, Mithras, or traditional Gods and ancestor worship), maybe also or instead decide in that in some cases that "paganism" (especially if the area is still religiously diverse by Attila's end) really is some kind of Christian-pagan syncretic relgion and treat it as a heresy of Christianity in CK2.

Either way would still allow diplomacy in Europe without having to just ignore the religious situation present in Attila. Though much is gonna happen in 300 years, particularly since it should be remembered that Christianity has a kind of appeal and way of spreading that the pagan religions simply lack. If there is at least one significant Christian realm remaining when Attila is done there would be a very high probability that missionaries and such from this place would have converted many of their neighbors by the time CK2 comes around.

Randarkman fucked around with this message at 13:40 on May 12, 2015

Ralepozozaxe
Sep 6, 2010

A Veritable Smorgasbord!
There are so many razed provinces, especially in North-Eastern Europe.

Edit: Holy crap Italia in Spain.

Rejected Fate
Aug 5, 2011

Mega-Sassanids make me happy and I hope they continue to blob.

Mr.Morgenstern
Sep 14, 2012

Randarkman posted:

Either way would still allow diplomacy in Europe without having to just ignore the religious situation present in Attila. Though much is gonna happen in 300 years, particularly since it should be remembered that Christianity has a kind of appeal and way of spreading that the pagan religions simply lack. If there is at least one significant Christian realm remaining when Attila is done there would be a very high probability that missionaries and such from this place would have converted many of their neighbors by the time CK2 comes around.

Yeah, I think a lot of pagan groups converted to Christianity over the course of the timespan between Attila and CK2. Joining the Latin Church had a lot of political benefits, and the Christians were very active in spreading their faith. Creating some kind of "Celtic Christianity" I think would be pretty cool, with both pagan and Christian elements.

Ofaloaf
Feb 15, 2013

Chapter 11: Gothia die uno non aedificata est (Summer 424 - Fall 432)

Our capture of Burdigala and loss of Rotomagus has made our borders digustingly ugly. Fixing this is a top priority!


Just look at that, ffs.


The Western Roman Separatists apparently have a solution to that problem, which probably involves just taking Burdigala from us. They attempt to attack us from the southeast, but King Vithericus' army is nearby and intercepts the Romans before they can attack our city.



A river separates our army from the Roman army, and it's not all that clear which ford will be the one that we end up crossing.



We set ourselves up to rush across the southeastern ford, while our enemy foolishly decided to split its forces evenly between the two river crossings. Happily, this means we're only fighting half of the enemy's army at a time.




Marching off to battle

Our army in this fight is King Vithericus' own Gothic Legion, so our army fields a great number of Roman Legio units. The Western Roman Separatists, by contrast, have employed some mercenaries from beyond the Rhine in their army. This leads to the bizarre situation of Gothic Roman legionaries fighting Roman Germanic pikemen.


Our Roman troops attack the Romans' German pikes

But it also means we have superior troops and more men engaged in the fight, so the southern half of the Roman army folds pretty easily to our forces.







With half their army gone, the remnant of the Roman forces is shaken before we make contact with them. Compounding their weakness, they divide their forces again, making it laughably easy to mop up what remains of their army.








With the Western Roman Separatists repulsed, we chose to simply rebuild and recuperate for the time being, and watch the world go by.



Our first bit of news comes in the spring of 427, when we are informed that the Vandals in Sicily have been outright destroyed. A Roman revolt has overthrown them, establishing a regime led by local rebels, unaffiliated with Italia, the Western Roman Empire or the Separatists. With the nascent Vandalian state destroyed, nearly all of Italy is now all in Roman hands of some sort or another. Rebels control Sicily, and the Western Roman Separatists and Italia control nearly the entire remainder of Italy, with the exception of Quadian-controlled Aquileia.


By Spring 428, we have managed to save enough- and haven't been threatened with attack, happily- that we are able to rebuild for once. General Mundus is ordered to march his army to the ruins of Avaricum, and once there is instructed to resettle the area. This costs us a pretty penny and reduces the strength of General Mundus' army, but it's well worth it for two reasons: Firstly, Avaricum is the location of a gold mine, so we should be able to recover the cost of reconstruction fairly quickly. Secondly, it makes our borders far more pretty.






Our realm as it now stands, circa AD 428

It's at this point that we notice that we're not the only ones who've been resettling provinces. The British have moved in on Rotomagus while we focused on Avaricum, so now we share a land border with pagan Romano-British who hate us because of our culture, our religion and our power. This is surely the start of a beautiful friendship.


Of course, upon resettling Avaricum we essentially start with nothing in the province. All its old buildings are useless rubble, more or less, and its our responsibility to pay for all the rebuilding efforts.





The first thing to be done is to rebuild Avaricum's administrative heart, and for that we need to build a torp, what the Saxons would call a thorpe and the West Germanics a dorp or dorf, in the middle of the ruined city. Simply building that is going to take us the rest of the year!




While we wait for construction of the torp to be completed, we're informed that the Garamantians have been destroyed by the Roman revolter-state of Africa. This is shocking news, as we'd been led to believe that the Garamantians were an immensely wealthy and powerful people. While the cause of the Garamantine defeat is confounding, at least the reason for the African attack on their lands is understandable enough- we'd also been told that Garamantine lands were lush and bountiful, and their capital, Gamara, was home to a vast multitude of people. Obviously anyone would want such rich lands!



Or, it turns out, maybe Garamantia really wasn't that rich and fertile. Perhaps the people who told us of Garamantine power were slightly confused?


Come the winter of 429, work on the torp has completed, and we're able to work on the next stretch of ruins in Avaricum. We opt to simply demolish these ruins, as we have two main priorities for the town at this point and two points in town where we could plop specialized buildings. We know we want that precious gold, so one of the ruin locations is going to be the location of a gold mine. There's also a matter of food- while our realm overall has a food surplus, Aquitania is producing very little to eat, and we don't want a local famine on our hands, so the other Roman ruins in Avaricum are going to be cleared away for some farmland.


We clear away one set of ruins


We begin the construction of farmland due to food shortage concerns, and order the demolition of the other ruins in town


Gold mines completed! Yesss.


During this time, we're notified of one other major development on the world stage- similar to the fate of the Vandals, a revolt has erupted in Jute-held Londinium, leaving the Jutes with only a single settlement back in their own Jute-land. This leaves Britain solely in the hands of Romans, with Roman rebels holding Londinium and the Romano-British realm in control of nearly everything in the British Isles except for Londinium itself.



This is looking like it's shaking up to be a very Roman world, despite the collapse of the Western and Eastern empires themselves.

The Romano-British revival is compounded a year later, when we receive word of a special peace treaty...



The Britons and Saxons are now friends.


This Roman upswing seems to upset some of our Germanic neighbors. The Franks, who are now settled in Narbo, convert from their paganism to Latin Christianity, presumably as a means of befriending the Western Roman Separatists to their east and Western Roman Empire proper to their southwest.



Others, who do not change with the times, appear to be suffering immensely.



Like the Vandals and Jutes, the destructors of the Langobards appear to be local Roman rebels, who managed to kill the Langobard king and seize their capital, destroying the kingdom's internal structure and causing their demise. Their destruction is an opportunity for us to expand deeper in Belgica, however, and we take the opportunity to besiege ex-Langobard Durocortorum ourselves.




It is a tumultuous time. Upstart Germanic kings are being overthrown, but the old Roman Empire isn't reviving. Instead, local Roman magnates are seizing control of provinces and establishing little Roman realms- call them Romaniolas, maybe- across the remains of Europe. We're going to have work hard to keep our land of Goths, our Gothia, alive in this tumultuous world!


The world as we know it, circa Autumn 432.

GenderSelectScreen
Mar 7, 2010

I DON'T KNOW EITHER DON'T ASK ME
College Slice

Ofaloaf posted:

While we wait for construction of the torp to be completed, we're informed that the Garamantians have been destroyed by the Roman revolter-state of Africa. This is shocking news, as we'd been led to believe that the Garamantians were an immensely wealthy and powerful people. While the cause of the Garamantine defeat is confounding, at least the reason for the African attack on their lands is understandable enough- we'd also been told that Garamantine lands were lush and bountiful, and their capital, Gamara, was home to a vast multitude of people. Obviously anyone would want such rich lands!



Or, it turns out, maybe Garamantia really wasn't that rich and fertile. Perhaps the people who told us of Garamantine power were slightly confused?

:drat:

Mr.Morgenstern
Sep 14, 2012



So much for Germany. :stare:

And it looks like the Kingdom of Frisia, should it remain for the rest of the playthrough, could start CK2 independent! :toot:

Mr.Morgenstern fucked around with this message at 01:36 on May 19, 2015

Brutus Salad
Nov 8, 2009

Best buddies forever! :3:

Ofaloaf posted:




Or, it turns out, maybe Garamantia really wasn't that rich and fertile. Perhaps the people who told us of Garamantine power were slightly confused?
Oh you
:allears:

Mr.Morgenstern
Sep 14, 2012

edit:n/m

GunnerJ
Aug 1, 2005

Do you think this is funny?
All these scattered Roman polities are weird and kinda dumb but maybe by CK2 if they survive there'll be a confederation of Roman city-states?

Ofaloaf
Feb 15, 2013

GunnerJ posted:

All these scattered Roman polities are weird and kinda dumb but maybe by CK2 if they survive there'll be a confederation of Roman city-states?
Italy-in-Spain, that one Western Roman prov in Illyria and the like will probably be spun off into little independent realms, if they survive to the end of Attila.

Deceitful Penguin
Feb 16, 2011
Considering how much razing is going on one can but hope we'll have either super-poor central Europe or even Tribal Europe as opposed to the settled parts of Spain, Britain and Italy.

NewMars
Mar 10, 2013
Oh god, there's so many Romes around that historians are rapidly losing count. And I thought the byzantine LP was bad enough!

Edit: Also, the Sassanids have smashed the ERE and own Arabia. They're getting really scary.

GenderSelectScreen
Mar 7, 2010

I DON'T KNOW EITHER DON'T ASK ME
College Slice
Also, did the Franks fall to separatists after converting?

NewMars
Mar 10, 2013

Hitlers Gay Secret posted:

Also, did the Franks fall to separatists after converting?

No, they still have a province just south of Aquitaine if you look closely. They must be destroyed.

Raserys
Aug 22, 2011

IT'S YA BOY
Should've settled in Aquitaine and expanded into Tarraconensis in Visigoth style. As is we kind of fall almost perfectly along Frankish borders.

Raserys fucked around with this message at 08:04 on May 19, 2015

Rubix Squid
Apr 17, 2014
I hope this doesn't mean we will turn french.

Ofaloaf
Feb 15, 2013

Hitlers Gay Secret posted:

Also, did the Franks fall to separatists after converting?
I think it's the other way around-- the Franks became Latin Christians because separatists took all the majority-germanic pagan lands.

Raserys posted:

Should've settled in Aquitaine and expanded into Tarraconensis in Visigoth style. As is we kind of fall almost perfectly along Frankish borders.
Making a realm straddling the Pyrenees is hard. One Battle of Vouillé and I'd be tempted to cut my losses and just huddle in Hispania, at which point I'd just be Visigothic Spain, basically.

YF-23
Feb 17, 2011

My god, it's full of cat!


Rubix Squid posted:

I hope this doesn't mean we will turn french.

I hope we do turn French.

Rumda
Nov 4, 2009

Moth Lesbian Comrade

YF-23 posted:

I hope we do turn French.

Hell we have already started a centuries long conflict with the British.

Preid
May 22, 2014
Heh, you brought Gothic architecture to France about 700 years early. I guess you can just leave Romanesque to the Romans now.

Luhood
Nov 13, 2012
Personally my biggest quip is with Britain itself. I mean, how Roman was the isles during this time anyhow? I'd love for the Brythonic - not to mention Celtic and Pictish - citizen of Roman Brittania to rise up against these upstarts and show them who's boss.

That and I think we need way less Romes roaming around. Four is bad enough, we don't need a fifth pseudo-Rome in the isles.

YF-23
Feb 17, 2011

My god, it's full of cat!


Luhood posted:

Personally my biggest quip is with Britain itself. I mean, how Roman was the isles during this time anyhow? I'd love for the Brythonic - not to mention Celtic and Pictish - citizen of Roman Brittania to rise up against these upstarts and show them who's boss.

That and I think we need way less Romes roaming around. Four is bad enough, we don't need a fifth pseudo-Rome in the isles.

If Britain remains how it is I'd expect its Roman administrators to Celtify after two or three generations, probably maintaining Roman titles and using their Roman legacy as a source of legitimacy. But given how many British Celts they would have involved in their internal politics the Romano-British would probably end up bi-lingual real quick and at that point Roman might as well be just a formal language of government and diplomacy.

Raserys
Aug 22, 2011

IT'S YA BOY
I dunno, with the Jutes gone and the Saxons friendly, all of Southeast Britain is a tight Roman core. The celtifying thing happened in Wales and Cornwall, on the farthest possible fringes of roman influence, after all the major areas were eaten up by Saxons. Here though, at least in Brittania itself, Romans are definitely in charge.

How they handle the Picts and Irish, I have no earthly idea.

You know what I'm excited for now? African Romance :allears:

Raserys fucked around with this message at 18:28 on May 19, 2015

YF-23
Feb 17, 2011

My god, it's full of cat!


Raserys posted:

I dunno, with the Jutes gone and the Saxons friendly, all of Southeast Britain is a tight Roman core. The celtifying thing happened in Wales and Cornwall, on the farthest possible fringes of roman influence, after all the major areas were eaten up by Saxons. Here though, at least in Brittania itself, Romans are definitely in charge.

How they handle the Picts and Irish, I have no earthly idea.

Which raises the question of how much of the Romano-British population is "natively" Roman. In lack of a large-scale migration as happened with the Anglo-Saxons I would definitely see the Celts playing a much larger role as a dominant demographic in the Romano-British realm.

A Buttery Pastry
Sep 4, 2011

Delicious and Informative!
:3:

YF-23 posted:

If Britain remains how it is I'd expect its Roman administrators to Celtify after two or three generations, probably maintaining Roman titles and using their Roman legacy as a source of legitimacy. But given how many British Celts they would have involved in their internal politics the Romano-British would probably end up bi-lingual real quick and at that point Roman might as well be just a formal language of government and diplomacy.
The Romano-British are pagan right? I could see a Christian Britain remaining Latin, though with major influence from Celtic, but I think you're right about a pagan one. There'd probably be some major influence in terms of titles and for poo poo which the locals don't have native terms.

Deceitful Penguin posted:

Considering how much razing is going on one can but hope we'll have either super-poor central Europe or even Tribal Europe as opposed to the settled parts of Spain, Britain and Italy.
Hey, there wouldn't be more than maybe a few places to raze in the first place in Central Europe at this point in time. I'm not sure it would really be that much poorer, given the paucity of towns and the fact that tribes from the east are probably just going to fill that poo poo out if there are less natives around. Central Asia is basically the start of a conga line that ends in Europe, and if anyone in Europe gets wrecked hard enough everyone else moves one step west. Plus this is before the invention of the heavy plough, which I think was a major factor in filling out non-Roman Europe in the first place.

Ofaloaf
Feb 15, 2013

Remember, Britain's Greco-Roman pagan right now, not Celtic pagan, so that's not really a pull to de-Romanization right there.

Funky Valentine
Feb 26, 2014

Dojyaa~an

Ofaloaf posted:

Remember, Britain's Greco-Roman pagan right now, not Celtic pagan, so that's not really a pull to de-Romanization right there.

The Viking Age in this timeline is going to be amazing.

GenderSelectScreen
Mar 7, 2010

I DON'T KNOW EITHER DON'T ASK ME
College Slice

Ofaloaf posted:

Remember, Britain's Greco-Roman pagan right now, not Celtic pagan, so that's not really a pull to de-Romanization right there.

I highly doubt Éire would be completely Greco-Roman by this point. There's bound to still be some Celtic influence in the Isles.

Ofaloaf
Feb 15, 2013

Hitlers Gay Secret posted:

I highly doubt Éire would be completely Greco-Roman by this point. There's bound to still be some Celtic influence in the Isles.
Oh, to be sure, Celtic Paganism largely dominates on the ground, but Greco-Roman paganism's the thing that the state supports, not Celtic stuff.

Plus, southeast Britain, where the British capital and the biggest cities are, is plurality Greco-Roman, and its second largest religious group is Germanic paganism. Probably because the Latin Christian WRE diminished Celtic paganism early on in the game, and the Jutes probably built a temple or something in London that fostered Germanic paganism at the expense of Celtic paganism.

There's a very drastic difference between the British 'core' and the rest of its territories.

Ofaloaf fucked around with this message at 21:05 on May 19, 2015

A Buttery Pastry
Sep 4, 2011

Delicious and Informative!
:3:

Ofaloaf posted:

Remember, Britain's Greco-Roman pagan right now, not Celtic pagan, so that's not really a pull to de-Romanization right there.
A Christian Romano-Britain would have a major leg up though in terms of maintaining Roman culture and language, as the Church would be there to connect them with other post-Roman remnants through the use of Latin.

Ofaloaf
Feb 15, 2013

A Buttery Pastry posted:

A Christian Romano-Britain would have a major leg up though in terms of maintaining Roman culture and language, as the Church would be there to connect them with other post-Roman remnants through the use of Latin.
Would a Catholic/Nicene/call-it-what-you-want priest in Rome wanting to visit a bishop in London be able to travel across an Arian realm like the Ostrogoths in Gaul? If so, then fine and dandy, the network connecting churches isn't that badly disrupted, but if Arians are dicks, then the Roman priest would have to sail around the coasts of Spain and western Gaul to reach Britain, effectively putting the British much further away from the reach of Christian priests and missionaries.

Rejected Fate
Aug 5, 2011

Oooh I hope we get a lasting Romano-Maghreb.

GenderSelectScreen
Mar 7, 2010

I DON'T KNOW EITHER DON'T ASK ME
College Slice

Rejected Fate posted:

Oooh I hope we get a lasting Romano-Maghreb.

That depends on how bad they get curbstomped by the Muslims.

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GSD
May 10, 2014

by Nyc_Tattoo
We need less romes.

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