Let's Wear Black: A Gothic Total War/Paradox Mega-LP

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A Buttery Pastry: Sep 4, 2011; Delicious and Informative!

Ofaloaf posted:

You can play much further than 465. I'm probably going to aim for 469 though, just to have a clean 300 years to CK2.

Alternatively, ignore the intervening 300 years and make your own version of The New Chronology.

# ¿ May 3, 2015 07:05

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# ¿ Apr 27, 2024 14:26

A Buttery Pastry: Sep 4, 2011; Delicious and Informative!

Ofaloaf posted:

I've done a little very-preliminary work on the CK2 section, and yeah, I've avoided using the Ostrogoth's brooch-symbol thing because it makes very little sense. My first though was just to make something derivative of the Ostrogoth's symbol in Barbarian Invasion:

but a black cross on a gold field is a rather dull thing for a kingdom, so that'll still probably be changed later on.

One thing to consider is that the identity of a group can change dramatically over the years. Having settled in the most populous region of Europe likely means the Ostrogoths are going to become assimilated over time, just like the Franks and Burgundians. With the Visigoths destroyed, I could see the Ostrogoths just becoming the Goths to both their new subjects and to other peoples, especially since the people they're going to be interacting with the most now would only potentially have heard of the distinction very very recently, which would probably mean the Ostrogoths themselves would start identifying as just Goths as they become more assimilated into the local culture. Eventually, the country could end up just being called something like Gotie, by the time the local Latin population was done with it. The symbols of this country could diverge just as much as from their origins as the name of the people itself.

That said, if you want to maintain some link to their past as the Ostrogoths of old, and make a more interesting flag, perhaps the sun as a symbol would work? Fits with Arianism not being down with trinitarianism, since the sun is singular, and ties back to the origin of the name of the Ostrogoths. I made a very quick mockup, because why not.

It even follows tincture rules! :v:

# ¿ May 3, 2015 19:46

A Buttery Pastry: Sep 4, 2011; Delicious and Informative!

Freudian posted:

The noble symbol of the Ostrogoths: a grapefruit

The House of Grapefruit.

# ¿ May 3, 2015 20:40

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Neruz posted:

Yeah I could imagine someone waving that around as a coat of arms. The bird does look silly but then again some old coats of arms were pretty goddamn silly looking.

Yeah, there's really nothing wrong with having a bit of fun when making coats of arms, no reason they all have to be super badass.

PBJ posted:

It actually looks similar to the House of Sverker's CoA, except with a raven instead of a dragon.

Sassy dragon.

PBJ posted:

gently caress it, let's go maximum ~~Aryan~~ Arian!

I was so tempted to make the sun cross one of those swastika variants, since they've been quite popular throughout history. I like what you did with the grapefruit though, plus it still follows tincture rules.

Randarkman posted:

Maybe a bit early for flagchat for a Gaulish Gothic kingdom isn't it? Climate change and Attila may yet force Ofaloaf to have to flee and relocate once more, depending on how strong he manages to become.

Each place the Goths settle just adds another part to their CoA, until it looks like a quilt made out of old banners.

# ¿ May 4, 2015 18:22

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PBJ posted:

So something like the HRE's CoA?

I recall seeing a CoA with 8x8 or maybe even 16x16 squares, which is probably closer to what I imagined.

PBJ posted:

edit: Also, in the chance that the Huns are out of the way, it may be best to make a dash back to �rheimar, which would provide us will one of the most fertile provinces in the game during the most infertile seasons, as well as restoring the original Gothic realm, which is a bonus mission for the Ostrogoths.

With the added bonus of being in the way of any future Central Asian invasion of Europe.

# ¿ May 4, 2015 19:01

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Mr.Morgenstern posted:

I know that. It's just that he's said in Skype that he doesn't want to do too much of that on top of everything else he has to do.

Even if he doesn't actually create any new religions, the extent of any religion could be very very different. If the Arabs (and Islam) are checked in the east by the Persians, then Islamic influence in Central Asia and India could all but be prevented, limited to perhaps Islamic traders influencing India coastal towns. Meanwhile, the Eastern Roman Empire might be so weak that the Arabs manage to conquer it, which would have a major effect in Europe. Or the Persian threat could simply limit the expansion of Islam, rather than merely redirecting it. That's a long way off from where we are now though. Also happens in the years between TW and CK, meaning Ofaloaf can fiddle with it to create the most interesting scenario for the CK part.

# ¿ May 6, 2015 11:30

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Mr.Morgenstern posted:

That's more or less what he's going for. Just don't expect any brand new religions unless something really weird happens.

Kinda low-effort not creating an entire alternate Abrahamic religion from scratch, including the political implications of it, but I guess some people are just lazy.

:v:

# ¿ May 7, 2015 04:51

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YF-23 posted:

If Britain remains how it is I'd expect its Roman administrators to Celtify after two or three generations, probably maintaining Roman titles and using their Roman legacy as a source of legitimacy. But given how many British Celts they would have involved in their internal politics the Romano-British would probably end up bi-lingual real quick and at that point Roman might as well be just a formal language of government and diplomacy.

The Romano-British are pagan right? I could see a Christian Britain remaining Latin, though with major influence from Celtic, but I think you're right about a pagan one. There'd probably be some major influence in terms of titles and for poo poo which the locals don't have native terms.

Deceitful Penguin posted:

Considering how much razing is going on one can but hope we'll have either super-poor central Europe or even Tribal Europe as opposed to the settled parts of Spain, Britain and Italy.

Hey, there wouldn't be more than maybe a few places to raze in the first place in Central Europe at this point in time. I'm not sure it would really be that much poorer, given the paucity of towns and the fact that tribes from the east are probably just going to fill that poo poo out if there are less natives around. Central Asia is basically the start of a conga line that ends in Europe, and if anyone in Europe gets wrecked hard enough everyone else moves one step west. Plus this is before the invention of the heavy plough, which I think was a major factor in filling out non-Roman Europe in the first place.

# ¿ May 19, 2015 20:07

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Ofaloaf posted:

Remember, Britain's Greco-Roman pagan right now, not Celtic pagan, so that's not really a pull to de-Romanization right there.

A Christian Romano-Britain would have a major leg up though in terms of maintaining Roman culture and language, as the Church would be there to connect them with other post-Roman remnants through the use of Latin.

# ¿ May 19, 2015 21:30

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Ofaloaf posted:

Would a Catholic/Nicene/call-it-what-you-want priest in Rome wanting to visit a bishop in London be able to travel across an Arian realm like the Ostrogoths in Gaul? If so, then fine and dandy, the network connecting churches isn't that badly disrupted, but if Arians are dicks, then the Roman priest would have to sail around the coasts of Spain and western Gaul to reach Britain, effectively putting the British much further away from the reach of Christian priests and missionaries.

True, a non-friendly/hostile Gaul is not conducive to maintaining a link between Britain and Rome, though perhaps the fact there aren't Catholics in Gaul is the bigger issue. I mean, the territory is a natural center of culture, given its massive population in comparison to its neighbors for most of history, so losing that would weaken the connection to post-Roman institutions on its own. Arians being dicks to Catholics would simply compound the issue further. I guess you could end up with a truly syncretic religion in the British Isles, combining Greco-Roman, Celtic, and Germanic paganism with Catholic and Arian Christianity, and hell, the weak connection to Rome might give it a sort of Orthodox flavor too, with a Patriarch of London as the highest religious authority. In any case, I think it's pretty likely that some form of Christianity will take root (eventually), even if Europe is a mess of different Christianities.

As for the language and culture, there is of course always the possibility that Britain will end up being divided more equally between different cultures, rather than having one clearly dominant one.

# ¿ May 20, 2015 21:56

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Luhood posted:

Conquering the Holy Sites? They're held by important priests you need to more or less personally convince that not only is your rule just, it is your bloodline who are chosen by Odin to be his emissary in Midgard. Or they could just be vital places of Worship you need to control in order to perform the correct rites (compare to Stonehenge for the Druids (even though this may technically not be correct)).

At least in the case of the Norse, two of the Holy Sites don't have any historical significance at all as far as I can tell. Maybe they did to the German tribes who used to live there, but Charlemagne was pretty thorough in eradicating their holy sites, not to mention the worshippers. In that case, it's probably more about proving the strength and vigor of yourself and your gods, in the face of the Christians and their Christ, by attacking and beating back some of the strongest Christian powers.

# ¿ May 24, 2015 14:36

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Fox Ironic posted:

A bloated, religiously heterogeneous, fracturing Sassanian Empire, with a strong Jewish and Christian presence, especially in border provinces? We might see Islam after all, though probably not the power it is in a normal run of CK2.

Alternatively, Persia might do a Rome and become the center of its own distinctly Persian version of Christianity.

# ¿ May 24, 2015 21:55

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oystertoadfish posted:

it might be fun to create an eastern, um, anti-chalcedoxy? to go along with the arian catechism that's being built up itt. maybe figure out a way to split up an expanded version of Christendom, one that's still centered on the old Hellenic world but clearly has a new dynamism emerging in the far west, into some theological excuses for murder based on the antitheses of the excuses that emerged from the conflicts of OTL christianity? might be fun but i dont really know what our historical source material would be

Well, heretics make a far better enemy than heathens. I'm imagining the crusades in CK2 combining all the best features of the real crusades with those of the religious wars in Europe following the Reformation.

# ¿ May 24, 2015 22:51

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Rejected Fate posted:

I still think we're being a little too harsh on Zoroastrianism's staying power as a religion - it's at the very least organised enough to attempt to fight back against conversion. I still feel like Iran proper will have a majority of Zoroastrians, albeit perhaps with some changes in their tenants. The rest of the empire to the west, which is quite considerable at this point, does seem ripe for Christianity and Judaism, the bits which aren't already.

You mean like a bunch of them being trampled by Mongol horses? :v:

Merdifex posted:

Sassanids may last long enough that their inevitable death will be brought upon them by Turkic invaders, who may adopt Christianity and Persian or Aramaic as their language of administration. I'm betting their assets in Anatolia and Greece would have been lost long ago, maybe to the ERE, or if even they are too weak for a resurgence, then to some other polity / splinter states.

Given the Nestorian missions along the Silk Road, Christianity seems like a pretty natural choice for any Turkic invader, unless they only manage to take over the core Persian territories. Though even in that case they might still do it, since conversion isn't only a matter of political usefulness. Could be Christianity just made more sense to some Turkic ruler. That's really up to the AI's choices in CK2 I guess.

# ¿ May 25, 2015 18:45

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Merdifex posted:

Who knows if there even is a Nestorian Christianity at all, the oriental church would be of a much different character, surely.

Good point, the guy would be an adolescent at this point I think. Plenty of chances for him to end up dead or otherwise philosophically inclined.

Merdifex posted:

The AI choices for the Turkic tribes are hardcoded. Seljuk is hardcoded to become muslim, Mongols are hardcoded to pick up Islam or Christianity themselves. If there is no Khazar Khaganate then there won't be any Seljuk. In that case some equivalent would be required.

Was not aware of that.

# ¿ May 25, 2015 19:27

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YF-23 posted:

Razing a province probably just means destroying the urban settlements, leaving intact only the rural elements of the province. It's not downright depopulation, but a reduction into some sort of collection of independent village communes that practice autarky and do not maintain the provincial infrastructure.

Yeah, I can't imagine razing meaning much beyond destroying urban settlements, and whatever rural areas the army just happened to pass through. Which in the case of the more urbanized areas of the map might be a real setback (though major urbanization would still be pretty rare.), while the real backwaters would be able to bounce back relatively quickly, if only because what they're bouncing back to might not even reach the standards of a recently razed province in the more civilized parts.

# ¿ Jun 2, 2015 23:57

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Torrannor posted:

Is Constantinople a good province? Has Creative Assembly become a Byzantine fanboy club as bad as Paradox?

It should be a good province during this period though, unlike in 1444 when EU4 starts. The population of the city itself would be 8-10 times greater during this game than it would a thousand years later.

# ¿ Jun 3, 2015 20:43

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Randarkman posted:

Not disagreeing there (bolded part, still think blob is a bad idea).

Blobbing seems like a pretty natural thing for a country in the situation the Gothic Kingdom finds itself in though. It's eastern borders are ripe for expansion, what with the Huns having wrecked any kind of central control in the region*, and even more so because the Arians and the Catholics are likely going to compete over the conversion Central Europe. The most effective way to win that competition is pushing your empire into these pagan lands and loving people up like Charlemagne, which means blobbing.

That said, if the blobbing gets under way now, rather than when the Franks historically started to really blob, the whole thing could have easily fallen apart again by the time CK2 rolls around. That could happen as a result of succession laws, cultural differences, and the arrival of Slavs and other peoples from the east. Something like this quick sketch perhaps.

*unless we're going with the (frankly dumb) idea that empty provinces actually means a province has been largely depopulated.

Merdifex posted:

If that happens, we will just have Hellenized Slavs, meaning that the Greeks won't disappear, not even the ERE maybe, the new group to capture Constantinopolis could very well just take up the mantle of Roman Emperor in the East.

Yeah, the weakness of the ERE could potentially be a boon to Greek civilization. Instead of slowly having its outlying areas be depopulated by warfare and then resettled, they could be taken over while still relatively densely populated. In which case you'd basically see a repeat of the Germanic conquest of the WRE, where only a limited area actually shifted from Romance to Germanic.

e:

Merdifex posted:

So, uh, where're the options, Ofaloaf?

It's like a real democracy, we're supposed to decide which candidate we like better based simply on appearances before we hear their policies.

# ¿ Jun 9, 2015 19:54

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Torrannor posted:

^^e: Nice that the Slavs have pushed the Scandinavians out of Denmark, though I wouldn't have expected you to post such a map.

I think it's pretty obvious from the map that the Slavs have taken over everything but the former Gothic Empire. The struggle in CK2 will be to unite the Empire once more and defend the last free people on Earth from eternal servitude.

# ¿ Jun 9, 2015 20:02

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I don't really see why the Huns would themselves leave a major ethnic legacy*, BUT depending on how you interpret the TW campaign they could have left certain areas open to immigration. Basically, push the Germans west a bit, and let the various peoples to their east follow along. Also, Avars in Northern Italy, just like in the map I posted.

*Were they even a united ethnicity in the first place?

Merdifex posted:

There is only one Gothic Kingdom, united under the mighty...what dynasty do we have?

And if we have a bunch of tiny Germanic duchies to our east, wouldn't that just be space to expand in and find vassals? I would imagine some of those petty kingdoms wanting the suzerainty of the Gothic Kingdom for protection from the others.

I thought it was pretty obvious that this was a map of the post break-up Gothic Empire I imagined in my post, at the start of the CK2 campaign. That there's only one Gothic Kingdom now does not necessarily mean there won't be more eventually. Alternatively, rename (some of) them to Gothic Duchies. The point being, this would not be a united realm, meaning the blobbing which the Goths could very likely do post AD450 would not mean the start of the CK2 campaign would be Ofaloaf controlling a massive empire.

Merdifex posted:

And there's no way the Avars settle North of Italy past the alps, Scandinavia is more realistic.

Why not? Northern Italy could be a battleground between the Goths and the Romans, leaving the area vulnerable to conquest by eastern invaders. Also, just because it's called Avaria does not mean it's majority Avar, they could easily just be the ruling class of an otherwise Romance population, much like the historical Lombards.

# ¿ Jun 9, 2015 21:27

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Ofaloaf posted:

I'm not sure that it really matters-- historically, the Goths themselves weren't a wholly united ethnicity during the Attila timeframe (see how the Rugi fared as one example), and a chunk of Alans attached themselves to the Vandals firmly enough that were the Vandals to've survived to the CK2 start point I would've just combined the Vandals and Alans together in a single Vandal culture, too.

True. I guess my point is, the Huns, having been kinda successful at this whole empire business, would probably be an even more diverse group than your usual tribal conglomeration.

Randarkman posted:

And plains and grasslands in the river basin between the mountains.

Precisely. It's basically a smaller and richer version of where they historically ended up.

Merdifex posted:

Do you mean that we have a divided Francia type situation due to the Germanic gavelkind tradition?

Yes. Like I wrote already, succession law would be part of the break-up of the empire.

ZearothK posted:

No people has ever adapted to different strategic circunstances ever in history.

I mean, not like several of hordes crossed the Carpathians or tore stuff up in Greece or, I don't know, sacked Rome.

The Avars included. Plus, the Mongols invaded across the loving Caucasus Mountains, the Julian Alps shouldn't be a problem.

# ¿ Jun 9, 2015 21:57

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Merdifex posted:

Sure, but even then, holding territory and capturing it is the hardest part. How these nomadic khaganates worked was through exacting taxed from the militarily weaker populace. Italy is not the Pannonian plains, so Avaria in Padania is just very, very unlikely.

Who says they have to stay nomadic? The basic idea is conquer the Po Valley when Gothic-Roman conflict has depopulated it somewhat and install yourself as rulers who will fight off the fuckers that have been ruining poo poo for decades. The locals might be perfectly happy to be taxed by the Avars, if the Avars make good on their part of the deal, defending the territory. Over time the usual assimilation into the local population would probably happen. Still, the people could possibly become their own Romance culture, rather than simply an Italian subgroup.

# ¿ Jun 9, 2015 22:21

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Merdifex posted:

If all that happens, and I don't think it's very likely to, they would end up becoming an Italian subgroup linguistically and culturally. We don't have a Malta situation here, this is one of the cultural centers of Italy.

Italy, France, and Iberia used to be a cultural continuum, but politics and time eventually divided this continuum into separate cultural groups. Why then could Avaria not become a separate Romance culture? It's sitting right there in the middle of two competing kingdoms/religions, and might be further repopulated by various eastern peoples fleeing some other steppe horde. They'd still assimilate, but over time, the place could become culturally distinct nonetheless, especially if they went Arian while Rome remains Catholic.

# ¿ Jun 9, 2015 22:56

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Merdifex posted:

And this wasn't mentioned in the option, I don't think, but do Germanics and Slavs and Balts survive within the borders of the hordes

I think it would make sense to have them at least survive in spots around the map, like having a few small areas which just happened to avoid the Scourge of God by sheer chance, or mountainous areas where survivors concentrated as new invaders followed the devastation wrought by the Huns.

GunnerJ posted:

The "Italia" empire-level title becomes the "Roman Empire" which functions on HRE rules but is composed of republics rather than feudal realms. If possible, the elected holder of the empire title remains a patrician, lending the name "Roman Principality" to the realm. Otherwise I guess the Imperator can function as the head of a feudal realm with a bunch of republic vassals, sounds like a good system!!

# ¿ Jun 11, 2015 20:37

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I guess it doesn't matter, but I'm a fan of the HRE idea too, despite my earlier vote.

YF-23 posted:

The west Romans and east Romans have a lot in common though, and politically probably recognise each other as the legitimate continuation of the two halves of the Empire. The WRE would then probably not be in schism with the ERE, they'd probably both belong to the same Orthodox Nicene Christianity, in opposition to the Papist Christianity of the Italians.

The Schism happened primarily for political reasons (the Pope making a power grab and the Byzantines rejecting it) which then sought some piss-poor religious justification to back it up (fillioque); here it's the other way around, the WRE and ERE have really good political reason to overcome tiny doctrinal differences and remain united in faith against the Pope's massive overreach.

Yeah, the Pope claiming both spiritual and temporal authority would likely help paper over any potential differences between the Iberians and the Byzantines. Them being rather far apart, and on opposite sides of the HRE, would also mean that there would be little reason for a rivalry between the two, which would further cement their unity against the Pope, and thus give them reason to come to a common understanding on religious matters. Plus on a practical/thematic level I think it kinda works that the Popes have exchanged wide-ranging spiritual authority in the West for concentrated temporal authority. Since temporal and spiritual authority are much closer tied together in Romanian* Catholicism, the extension of spiritual authority would probably require some degree flexing temporal authority, meaning the Pope would be sort of a mix of an early Caliph and a Renaissance Pope.

*Too many drat Romes, so I stole the name from the other option.

# ¿ Jun 12, 2015 13:33

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Ofaloaf posted:

I do like Merdifex's initial flag proposal, with modifications. It is a little cluttered; the St. Peter's Cross probably could be removed, and even though it was originally the cross of St. Peter there are certain Satanic connotations nowadays which I bet nearly everyone thought of when they saw that initially, so that's another reason for it to go.

The Papacy is the Whore of Babylon, the Satanic associations are entirely appropriate.

TTBF posted:

I mean it's not even really a contest at this point. My main concern is that outside of Crusades the Papacy won't really attempt to expand any.

You say "outside of Crusades" like the Pope wouldn't have potential crusade targets in every direction. Alternatively, might it be possible to add knightly orders in the vein of the Teutonic Knights to spread the good word.

# ¿ Jun 12, 2015 14:29

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# ¿ Jun 12, 2015 21:28

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Hellenic Islam.

reignonyourparade posted:

If the Caliphate is fighting the Sassanids instead of the Byzantines over the Levant, maybe even fighting ALONGSIDE the Byzantines, I can see them looking at everything the Arabs have accomplished and going "You know what maybe there's something to this whole 'Islam' thing."

Yeah, the political situation could probably help give Islam an in. First by having a former backwater-of-a-backwater kick the rear end of people who have been kicking Byzantine rear end for ages, and then later, assuming the First Fitna still happens, whichever Islamic faction holds Syria might allow* the Byzantines the chance to expand into Anatolia. This would help cement the idea that Islam really is divinely favored, working for both primitive tribal Arabians and noble civilized Greeks. If whatever faction exists in Syria was then defeated, perhaps some of the supporters could move into Byzantine lands to escape whatever punishment the other faction had planned, bolstering the numbers of low-to-mid level followers of Islam, creating a stronger core from which the conversion from Christianity to Islam could spring from.

*As in be unable to oppose during a civil war and trying to save face.

On the more theological side of things, going completely into the "Jesus was just a prophet" camp right away would probably be a bit much, even for an emperor, but if Islam was initially adopted as an alternative Christianity (which I think it might have been seen as early on historically too), and only later moved closer to Islamic orthodoxy (as a result of Arabian scholars and religious figures escaping persecution) then it's not as much of a stretch. Just like Persia had a major influence on Islam, the Byzantines surely would too though, and I imagine Jesus would still have a very prominent place as the prime non-emperor prophet, so as to make conversion easier, with the others being there more to establish the "historical credentials" of the faith.

If Persia remains standing, I suppose the spread of Islam in Eurasia would largely be redirected north and north-west from Byzantium instead of east and north-east from Persia. If we imagine Islam was checked in the west by a stronger Hispanic Empire then you'd have a situation where you had Christianity in the west and Islam in the east, unlike the historical north and south. Perhaps West Africa could also be blessed with Christian missionaries many centuries before they did historically. Alongside Muslim ones, obviously, resulting in fun for the whole family.

# ¿ Jun 14, 2015 06:47

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How about a compromise? Byzantium does not convert, rather it is conquered by the Muslims like Muhammad said they would. While some conversion does happen, it it mostly limited to various steppe nomads* who settle in and around the depopulated Byzantine Empire, while the long-time Christian population largely remains steadfast in their beliefs. This puts the Muslims in a position to push further into Europe* , while Byzantium becomes a natural target for crusaders either wanting to revive it or to bring the heretics up to speed on proper theology.

*Muslim Sarmatia centered around the Carpathian Basin being a menace to their Christian neighbors perhaps? I could see a steppe nomad deciding that submission to a dead prophet is better than submission to a living pope.

Egypt on the other hand can remain in Christian hands, a solid bulwark against an Arab advance into North Africa, with relatively good relations with the Muslim world as a result of their treatment of the earliest followers of Muhammad. Might become victims of over-eager crusaders on their way to the Holy Land though.

# ¿ Jun 14, 2015 21:06

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I would vote for Polish plumbers taking over England, if it wasn't because the Roman fanboys are out in legion, trying to create a new Rome in every round of voting.

# ¿ Jun 15, 2015 06:08

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Blooming Brilliant posted:

The Huns ran roughshod through the lands of Europe in the early 5th century, their reach even going as far as breaking into Scandinavian lands the forcing the native folk to flee further North into the harsh winterlands.

I don't think that happened in the Attila campaign? Eastern and Central Europe were ravaged, but Scandinavia was probably untouched. Well, by the Huns at least, it looks like Zealand has been taken over by the Saxons, and I'm guessing the same goes for Jutland.

Plus the shear madness of invading Scandinavia during this time, like why would you even do that? The first town in Scandinavia was founded 250 years after the death of Attila. It would be akin to Genghis Khan deciding to invade Kamchatka while China was still open for conquest.

Deceitful Penguin posted:

That said Slavic is a terminally boring religion and any religion too far from its holy sites gets into some problems, but that's up to democracy apparently.

I think the idea was Slavic culture replacing the Germanic culture of our reality, not Slavic religion surviving there too. Yeah, reading it again, they were supposed to be Arian Christians.

# ¿ Jun 15, 2015 17:54

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sheep-dodger posted:

The Slavic Takeover

This is no choice at all, of course the Slavs are going to upgrade to Second Rome.

# ¿ Jun 16, 2015 13:36

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Rodyle posted:

Africa is questionable but Britannia is absolutely a Rome, they'd have hailed an Augustus and they dominate the isles

I thought that voted ended up with the Romans in Britain merely hanging on in (parts of) Britain, rather than dominating it?

Ofaloaf posted:

I have no idea what the question even is at this point.

You're assuming a lot here, thinking you're the authority.

# ¿ Jun 16, 2015 21:29

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Rodyle posted:

I think Of said he'd be coming up with a compromise.

That is my interpretation of compromise. :v:

# ¿ Jun 16, 2015 22:34

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Merdifex posted:

Also consider that the Greeks who populated the cities would far outnumber the Slavic invaders at first, so the scenario in which Greeks are reduced to Attica is a bit overblown.

Ofaloaf has 300 years to fiddle with history in to create a situation where those territories become Slavic. (Not that he has to create an exhausting treatise on the subject) The balance between the two could shift* due to repeated warfare and deprivation, which historically reduced the population of Constantinople to a quarter of its previous population over a similar timespan, which allowed Turks to become a majority in Constantinople. The Anatolian countryside could likewise suffer much devastation (as in history), and would be a natural place to settle for the Slavs. Here, like in history, small numbers of invaders could assimilate the disparate groups of Anatolia into their own culture, which would shift the balance further toward the Slavs.

*Maybe Spain and Africa could end up becoming home to a Greek diaspora, fleeing political instability and war? Aside from reducing the number of Greeks further, it could also weaken the Greek institutions and thus slow down the adoption of Greek norms by the Slavs.

In short, 300 years is plenty of time to make the history work, especially for an LP of all things.

# ¿ Jun 17, 2015 16:58

A Buttery Pastry: Sep 4, 2011; Delicious and Informative!

Ofaloaf posted:

Nah, it's pretty easy to shunt that all around. Plus that's why I'd want time beyond when Horse Lords is released, just to make sure it's all working properly.

To keep the thread active, please add voting for character names too, until we've named every major landholder in the game.

# ¿ Jun 17, 2015 22:35

A Buttery Pastry: Sep 4, 2011; Delicious and Informative!

Archaeology Hat posted:

Fermented fish guts?

This goes well with their love of eagles.

# ¿ Jun 19, 2015 19:26

A Buttery Pastry: Sep 4, 2011; Delicious and Informative!

Merdifex posted:

Man, gently caress Rome! But do tell us about those historical linguistic shifts. Will the Goths through ruling over Gallo-Roman speakers ultimately create the Romance-Gothic culture and language? What will come of the Avar speakers? Will we see a distinct dialect with a Turkic influence? What's the story behind Welsh Romance speakers in Normandy?

The Avars will use their renown as horsemen to become the favored messengers of the HRE. They'll then translate every message into their own language, forcing the rulers of Italy to learn the tongue, eventually turning all of Italy Avar.

# ¿ Jun 19, 2015 22:23

A Buttery Pastry: Sep 4, 2011; Delicious and Informative!

nothing to seehere posted:

Of course, the environmental factors which led to the desertification of North Africa are still in place, leading to a slow decline in food production as opposed to a sharp shock (if it ever was)

As far as I've gathered, part of the decline of North Africa was the Med being split in two, making the risk-reward ratio of the farming that used to be done there unfavorable. This encourage farmers in the region into merely doing subsistence agriculture, and the lack of wealth associated with that might have made the impact of climate change on productivity even more pronounced. Basically, there would probably be some reduction in agricultural production, but keeping some provinces pretty wealthy could probably make sense.

# ¿ Jun 19, 2015 22:50

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# ¿ Apr 27, 2024 14:26

A Buttery Pastry: Sep 4, 2011; Delicious and Informative!

Ofaloaf posted:

I'm not exactly sure where else to search, because I can tell you now that Googling "African Romance" returns plenty of results not related to linguistics.

Emperor Mandingus Maximus

# ¿ Jun 19, 2015 23:11

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Let's Play! > Let's Wear Black: A Gothic Total War/Paradox Mega-LP

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