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So 8x is the end of the Lycian arc of the game. This is about 1/3 of the way through the story and a good chance to check how I'm doing on the rankings. Unfortunately, there's no easy way to check most of them like there was in 7. Not now anyway. But I checked the XP gained manually and compared that to the amount required. A surplus of nearly 5000 is nice, but just like in FE7 it could evaporate quickly if one doesn't keep up the work using low level units.  Not doing so great for funds. I have only 14,000 in surplus despite looting everything and stealing everything. That's only enough to promote 2 people. Oh well, some bonanza chapters are coming up. Edit: weeks later, while writing up a similar table for 12x, I realized that I had one significant typo on that sheet: the "Charges when full" for promotion items was listed as 2 instead of 1. Consequently my listed capital from promotion items was 10,000 instead of 20,000. So I actually had a 24,000 surplus. That's significantly better. Melth fucked around with this message at 03:10 on Jul 31, 2015 |
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May 7, 2015 06:03
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We stuck with Bartre in 7 so we should stick with him here too.
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May 7, 2015 07:47
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If your math is saying Bartre is more efficient, I think we should trust the numbers and maximize our gains.
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May 7, 2015 07:58
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Melth posted:I mean, Bartre is bad but Echidna isn't good. Her solid bases mean she's good enough to steal your XP on her chapter and kill Tate's minions who you're trying to keep alive, but her growths are barely better than Marcus's. Like 5% better in most stats. Neither should see use, especially in a max ranking run. So that's a non-factor really. Echidna may not be good in terms of stats or growths or utility or rankings, but she's a female infantry units whose weapon of choice is axes. She's objectively a top tier character, brocipher.  But yeah, if you're not gonna use Echidna, just follow the math. Gonzales will still be top tier.
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May 7, 2015 10:46
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She's a user of the objectively worst weapon type in the game and doesn't even have the Con to use them properly, and that's supposed to be a selling point for her?  E: That's not even a joke, she can't even hold a loving Iron Axe without eating a speed penalty, let alone any of the good stuff. 13 Strength is not particularly impressive for a prepromoted sword user and 18 speed will carry her for a while, but that drops off really loving quick on hard mode. Artix fucked around with this message at 14:24 on May 7, 2015 |
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May 7, 2015 14:13
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Artix posted:She's a user of the objectively worst weapon type in the game and doesn't even have the Con to use them properly, and that's supposed to be a selling point for her? Yes. Axe ladies are cool, and she's the only one in the series that's a foot soldier. Awakening let your healers promote into an awesome joke class, but that's pretty much it.
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May 7, 2015 14:35
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Artix posted:She's a user of the objectively worst weapon type in the game and doesn't even have the Con to use them properly, and that's supposed to be a selling point for her? So I actually did do Top: - Rutger - Alan - Lance - Lalum/Elphin - Miledy High: - Clarine - Dieck - Gonzales [A-Route] - Chad - Astohl - Percival - Tate Upper: - Saul - Ellen - Shin - Fir - Cath - Lugh - Oujay - Echidna - Gonzales [B-Route] Upper-Mid: - Thany - Roy - Sue - Klein - Lot - Noah - Treck - Ray - Geese - Igrene Mid: - Zeiss - Marcus - Bartre - Douglas - Lilina - Garret - Hugh - Cecilia Lower-Mid: - Niime - Fa - Yodel - Zealot - Dorothy - Bors Low: - Barth - Wade - Merlinus - Wolt - Karel Bottom: - Juno - Wendy - Sophia
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May 7, 2015 14:39
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So what you're saying is that even according to the E: And for bonus points is considered the worst of the three heroes to boot. Artix fucked around with this message at 14:53 on May 7, 2015 |
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May 7, 2015 14:44
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Well, yes, if you were designing an autistic utility-based tier list, she wouldn't top it. If that's a measure of a good character to you, that's cool, it's a free country. Doesn't mean Echidna isn't objectively good and cool.
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May 7, 2015 14:57
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The point is you should always use female Axe-users because they're the best. Besides, it's not like anyone complains that apparently lower-rated characters like Thany, Sue, Ray or Geese are unusable or anything. I don't think anyone's been recommending you use her in a Hard-mode max-ranking run. She's been completely fine for me the times I've used her at least.
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May 7, 2015 14:59
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The most important thing to take away from that is Merlinus is above Wolt.
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May 7, 2015 15:39
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McTimmy posted:The most important thing to take away from that is Merlinus is above Wolt. Merlinus has the magical powers to hand someone a speedwing someone else found on the other side of the map and get shanked to death with to no long term consequences. Wolt has 10 attack and if you're drat lucky he'll reach 11 before he is made irrelevant by Sue.
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May 7, 2015 15:51
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I wonder how far up the list Shin and Sue are on the Sacae route and if Thany and Tate move at all. Also Wendy and Sophia are right where they belong. I think Sophia is better than Wendy overall, but she comes so late and the game gives you an amazing alternative three chapters before you get her who is eleven levels higher than she is with decent stats. Oh, and she comes on one of the most bullshit maps in this game, so that doesn't help either.
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May 7, 2015 16:21
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Why is Clarine high? Even being a mobile healer 30% Magic growth does not a good healer make.
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May 7, 2015 17:24
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Better question, why is Ellen so high?
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May 7, 2015 17:27
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Because healers, I'm going to assume.
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May 7, 2015 17:30
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Clarine is a 7-move healer with supports with other high tier units. Ellen and Saul are also up there because staves means healing and restoring and also eventually warping and fixing expensive swag.
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May 7, 2015 17:37
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I'm also not really sure I get the point of an S-rank tier list. If you're S-ranking the game, you're gonna be leveling up any character who isn't total garbage anyway, so I imagine you'd just stick with whomever got the best levels.
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May 7, 2015 17:41
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ApplesandOranges posted:Why is Clarine high? Even being a mobile healer 30% Magic growth does not a good healer make. Even with Clarine's low base and growth in magic, outside of magic users, pegasi and bosses, very few enemy units in this game have resistance worth a drat. Even chip damage can add up, and when she has her full support set up with Dieck, Rutger or Lance, she's boasting a 25% crit chance and able to weaken if not outright roast most infantry units that try to hit her. Also staves become a really big thing in later chapters. There are alot of status effect users as you go along.
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May 7, 2015 17:56
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Kajeesus posted:I'm also not really sure I get the point of an S-rank tier list. If you're S-ranking the game, you're gonna be leveling up any character who isn't total garbage anyway, so I imagine you'd just stick with whomever got the best levels. It takes into account their immediate utility and the probability that a character will turn out good. Like there's a chance Alance will just get only HP for 19 levels straight but they show up in chapter 1, support with each other, and more likely than not will outpace Marcus and Zealot statwise before they even hit level 10 and can hang with Percival when he finally joins in chapter 15. That's why Lugh is so much higher than the other mages. Lugh has so much more availability so by the time Lilina and Hugh even enter the scene you've had Lugh for a while so he's already gotten levels and weapon ranks.
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May 7, 2015 18:00
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Krumbsthumbs posted:I wonder how far up the list Shin and Sue are on the Sacae route and if Thany and Tate move at all. Sophia is Bad in practical terms like most of the underleveled units FE gives you in later stages of the game, but since Nosferatu exists she can still do great if you actually bother. Of course, Ray is the far more sane choice, as would Niime be if she had any way to not get one-shot by the stronger enemies. But my latest run I didn't want to use Ray AGAIN and decided to baby her instead, rewarding me with a fast Sophia, and she's probably my strongest character now solely due to the power of Nosferatu. E: Also let me tell you, having an overpowered Lilina made the bullshit desert level such a breeze comparatively. Manakete more like XP-dispenser. Insurrectionist fucked around with this message at 18:04 on May 7, 2015 |
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May 7, 2015 18:02
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The notion that Gonzalez drops a tier and a half on the B route is nothing short of absurd. As I pointed out, he caps HP and Str in 5 seconds no matter what anyway so the route difference is like +1 to most other stats. The only real difference is that you get fewer levels of using him before he hits 20/20.
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May 7, 2015 20:33
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Melth posted:The notion that Gonzalez drops a tier and a half on the B route is nothing short of absurd. As I pointed out, he caps HP and Str in 5 seconds no matter what anyway so the route difference is like +1 to most other stats. The only real difference is that you get fewer levels of using him before he hits 20/20. he contributes more to the EXP rank, don't ask me I don't make the lists I just google search them. You can feel free to go on Serenes and argue about character tiers with them.
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May 7, 2015 22:39
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Pretty sure at Serenes they base their tiering purely off LTC rather then rank.
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May 7, 2015 23:01
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Dr Pepper posted:Pretty sure at Serenes they base their tiering purely off LTC rather then rank. this thread was specifically about Rank, the other thread about Efficiency has different positions. For one, Percy, Marcus and Zealot jump into the top tier, and Alance drop into High http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=18979
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May 7, 2015 23:11
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Artix posted:She's a user of the objectively worst weapon type in the game and doesn't even have the Con to use them properly, and that's supposed to be a selling point for her?
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May 7, 2015 23:15
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also why are there people using 'autism!!!' as an insult towards people who play the game with the goal of optimization in a let's play thread for an optimized run of the game
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May 7, 2015 23:18
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Endorph posted:also why are there people using 'autism!!!' as an insult towards people who play the game with the goal of optimization Let's be honest, we're in Let's Play. If you're yelling autism it's the pot calling the kettle black.
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May 7, 2015 23:23
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yeah, but this thread especially is the last place anyone should be busting out that one like if you're gonna be a shitheel at least show some self-awareness
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May 7, 2015 23:26
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Uh, that was meant to read as mocking someone backing their humorless argument with "according to the Zulily Zoetrope fucked around with this message at 23:38 on May 7, 2015 |
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May 7, 2015 23:35
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Kajeesus posted:Uh, that was meant to read as mocking someone backing their humorless argument with "according to the I wasn't actually making an arguement either way, I figured my striked out text would have indicated that. If not, I've been in the past one of the biggest proponent for Echidna and FE6 Pre-promotes in general.
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May 7, 2015 23:43
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Echidna is a cool name.
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May 7, 2015 23:51
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Echinda's cool with me for being the only female hero in the GBA games. If nothing else, I like how FE6 includes some cool playable female classes than the other two games don't have, like HeroF, ShamanF, DruidF and NomadF, Nomad TrooperF.
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May 8, 2015 00:01
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to be fair fe7 only has one nomad and shaman, and in fe8 nomads got taken out (and you can make neimi a ranger if you want)
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May 8, 2015 00:20
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Go with which ever route you prefer, Melth. I'm here to learn how to be a pro at FE tactically, I want to see how you crack this over your knee. quote:They know each other; she taught him to fight in Ostia. That’s what the tutorial consists of actually. Why this Etrurian mage is teaching him to fight rather than his father or Hector I’m not sure. Used to be that nobles swapped their children around for training. Sometimes it was a thinly veiled hostage situation; sometimes it was a way of strengthening ties without having to marry into the family, if a marriage wasn't feasible/desirable for whatever reason, as fostering usually leads to strong bonds. Here, if Cecilia trained Roy in Ostia, then that could be for several reasons. It's a sure thing that Roy learned fighting from Eliwood & his knights, but that doesn't mean he wouldn't have more to learn from Cecilia - especially about how to handle battles where magic users are on the field. Etruria's king might have seen an advantage to have his general train Roy - either due to the loyalty Roy would have to Cecilia, or that Cecilia would know how Roy thinks, should Ostia and Etruria go to war. Etruria's king might also have viewed it as a favor to Hector or Eliwood, or in payment for a future favor they would owe him.
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May 8, 2015 05:54
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Come to think of it, does anyone know a better way to make picture of the maps than taking screenshots of each section and editing them together in MS paint?
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May 8, 2015 06:11
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Melth posted:Come to think of it, does anyone know a better way to make picture of the maps than taking screenshots of each section and editing them together in MS paint? Microsoft ICE. It's an image composite creator that'll let you make full-size maps using the aforementioned screenshots. It's a little finicky and you might have to try a few times to get it right though. It works automatically, so it can get confused sometimes. Alternatively, Artix made full-size maps for his FE6 LP, so you can always refer to those if you're feeling lazy.
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May 8, 2015 06:17
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Kacie posted:Go with which ever route you prefer, Melth. I'm here to learn how to be a pro at FE tactically, I want to see how you crack this over your knee. Also keep in mind that Etruria is one of the worlds Super Powers while Lycia... isn't. In fact it's brought up multiple times that Roy could, though his actions in the game, recieve a position of nobility within the Etrurian system. His education would simply be better there, and his training in Ostia is the end of his training with Cecilia, it is likely that he and Lilina have spent many years either in Ostia or Etruria training and studying. It's like the difference between Public and private schools, or community colleage versus a pretigious university, sure you can still provide education, but they'll probably get a better one elsewhere. And goodness, Why didn't Hector take time out of his busy schedual of running the entire league, or his father from dealing with the politics of the Lycian League to teach their kids how to fight? I couldn't begin to think of a reason.
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May 8, 2015 08:23
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 Ding! This chapter is even more of a free XP fest than the last one. It’s full of high level pirates and pirates can’t fight worth a darn. And I have access to something like 12 competent sword users. Anyway, this begins the Western Isles arc. It wouldn’t be bad as a self-contained story, but it’s a bizarre and long and largely pointless interruption just as the plot finally started to move again. Also, one long bit of exposition from Cecilia gets the only story importance it really has out of the way (along with the whole plot of the arc being revealed) before 9 even begins. Chapter Summary: The plot is put on hold so Roy can be sent to fight bandits in the western isles.  Because that would make sense. I mean, Bern attacked Lycia in chapter 3 and totally won and then just did nothing for 5 chapters for no reason. But then Narshen finally made a minor attack and was driven back to rejoin his army, vowing revenge. And Etruria joined the war. Things were looking cool. And instead we get this complete anti-climax. I think it’s worth comparing this to my favorite moment in FE7: the outcome of The Dragon’s Gate. In both places, the story looked like it was building up to a dramatic and important moment- or even the beginning of the end. And then things suddenly veered off in a new direction. But whereas the Dragon’s Gate outcome was exciting, this is a return to boring nothingness as we go fight bandits again. And the Dragon’s Gate made the goal of the party change: they’d been trying to save Elbert, but they failed completely at that and instead suddenly ended up needing to defeat a an undefeatable dark wizard. In this case the goal of defeating Bern stays absolutely the same… we just don’t move toward it for 4 chapters. Furthermore, the whoooole mystery of why Bern isn’t attacking is actually incredibly easy to see through: they have agents working to overthrow Etruria. I mean, fully 50% of the first 8 chapters of this game were fighting people who betrayed Lycia to side with Bern. Most of the rest were bandit encounters. In other words, we have done NOTHING but fight traitors and their surprise attacks. And we know already that Bern also had agents and factions that rebelled to side with them in Sacae and in fact relied heavily upon them there too. So it’s incredibly obvious they’re just waiting for their agents in Etruria to end the war before it begins. Heck, we even find out exactly who the Etrurian traitors clearly are before this chapter begins. So there’s no mystery. So there’s no drama. So it’s all completely pointless. What lousy writing.  Pretty sure that happened after chapter 3.  Good, good. As a masterful diplomat and statesman and a person who knows all about Bern’s treachery in Lycia and Sacae, he’ll surely do something to put a stop to their plot, right? Right? Darn. Well I suppose I can cut him some slack since he’s suffering from mad cow disease.  Wait, when did this happen? Have you been winning battles behind my back, Roy? I thought we had something special! All I saw was Roy defeat a handful of Lycian traitors, then get totally owned by 6 guys from Bern because he’s an idiot, and then get bailed out by the Etrurians without there being any kind of fight at all.  Where did this alleged army which we never actually see any trace of come from anyway? The armies of Lycia were either smashed with Hector or turned traitor or were cut to ribbons fighting traitors and bandits everywhere. Somehow putting together another army is some 2nd Punic War style awesome.  … … … that’s Etruria, man.  Fire Emblem: Binding Blade: Gaiden begins!  Yeah. It makes no sense. They want us to take our army, travel 1000 miles to THEIR colony and then fight some bandits. It’s even stupider and more pointless than it sounds, actually. You see, the evil Etrurian traitors are ALLIED with the bandits. And they’re committing terrible crimes in the western isles with inhumane working conditions in their mines, keeping that secret from the Etrurian court. So… what’s happening here is that the Etrurian traitors are manipulating us into killing their minions and exposing their crimes to the world. Plus totally giving themselves away like 10 times over. This plot runs on high octane stupidity.  Really? Huh. You learn something every day.  This is repeated 10 times over the next 4 chapters.  Remember Paul and Jasmine? This game has at least 4 weirdo lookalikes of them. Maybe another I’m forgetting.  Yeah. You told us that a second ago.  The bandits knew we were coming and are lying in wait. All part of the plan by the traitors. They decided the best way to get rid of Roy was to try to have some random pirates attack his army. This not only tips their hand when the bandits know too much but also had 0% odds of accomplishing anything.  Of course, we just landed. So there is no behind. And sneaking up on a whole army and killing it all off is no mean feat.  Cecilia came all the way out here instead of this conversation happening back in Etruria or Lycia where it would make more sense. She’s got way too much time on her hands. Anyway, she immediately reveals that it was the king’s obviously treacherous advisor- not the king- who ordered that the Lycian army be sent here to fight bandits. And that loads of people in Etruria think that’s both gauche and suspicious.  So I mean, this conversation gives it all away.    Yeah, those guys are clearly up to something.  Good question!   And so the advisor basically took power. Somehow. And no one stopped him even though he’s clearly not doing with the king wants.  The Etrurian army fights in Lycia and the Lycian army fights in Etruria. Nothing is gained.  For no good reason he kicks Guinevere out. Now it will usually just be him and Merlinus talking all the time with no one else AT ALL. The very thought is daunting.  BEST LINE EVER Slugfest Preparations & the Map:  Secondary Objective: Recruit Fir with Noah Secondary Objective: Recruit Shin with Sue Secondary Objective: Get the Silver Sword from the bottom left village Secondary Objective: Pick either the Echidna or the Bartre route depending on which top right village you go for. Secondary Objective: Build some supports Reinforcements: Pirates from every fortress from turns 12-20. The middle ones have handaxes Turn Limit: 20. Tremendously generous if you know how not to get bogged down. The trouble is the reinforcements don’t stop till 20. Fog of War begins its comeback tour! This is the best view of the map I can get on turn 1. If you want one without fog, check out WoD’s: http://www.fireemblemwod.com/fe6/guiafe6/ENG_cap9.htm Now on this chapter you have no torches and can’t use the torch staff because no healer has more than 5 mag. I’m serious about no torches by the way. Not only did the game give out no torches as treasure at any point up till now, but they also weren’t available in stores anywhere. You can actually buy one in this chapter from that north vendor, but that’s much too late. I mean, by land you’ll have completed the whole chapter by the time you get there. By air, it will still take like 5 turns to buy it and get it to a thief, plus the store is carefully watched by several archers and axe users, so it’s certain death to visit without precise maneuvering in and out. And that requires you to already have vision of the place to execute well. Anyway, it’s not actually a rough chapter really; the fog basically does nothing. Partly that’s because all unit types see a significant see further in this game (about 2 spaces usually, but sometimes more depending on the chapter). Partly it’s because the enemy force is numerically small and scattered. Partly because the terrain makes them easy to chokepoint. Partly because they’re mostly non-threatening unit types. The only real threats are a few guys with super effective weapons. With no torches and those weapons often being instant kills to tough units, that’s kinda cheap, but it’s par for the course for this game. And that of course is the real reason the fog isn’t a problem: almost EVERY chapter in this game is functionally fog of war, so one is used to it. In any case, the biggest obstacles are neither the fog nor the enemy. No, the problem is the awful terrain. First of all, there’s the 3-way split starting in the center isle. And then the map is just pretty big and windy. And it’s full of bridges and other chokepoints where you not only get blocked by the enemy but by your own forces. And it’s policed by tons of axe and bow users, so you can’t use Thany effectively at all. The key, as usual, is rescuing.  Units Allowed: 12+ Roy. That limit is actually fairly tight considering you need to bring Noah and Sue among other things. Still not a huge problem. Units Brought: 1) Roy. Required. Moderately useful again since almost every enemy is an axe user. But he’s high level and being almost decent with max support bonuses and constant weapon triangle advantage is still all he can aspire to. 2) Noah. Required for Fir. A bad unit but he can use swords, so he’s (barely) trainable. And as a cavalry unit, he can carry people. That’s useful here. 3) Sue. Required for Shin. Bows continue to be bad, but my Sue is still rocking a great strength blessing so she’s trainable. And as a cavalry unit, she can carry people. That’s useful here. 4) Alan. Way too high level to use regularly, but a great unit when I need things (like the boss) dead. And as a- you get the idea. 5) Lance. Alan but not as good, same as usual. 6) Rutger. Too high level, but wildly effective here. Mostly I just want to keep working on his supports. 7) Dieck. Same as Rutger. 8) Oujay. Only marginally lower level, but still low enough I don’t mind giving him a fair number of kills. He’s not far inferior to Dieck and Rutger now. 9) Chad. Not much worse than Oujay offensively, though he can’t take a hit. Very good for seeing through the fog too. 10) Lugh. My best unit probably. Too high level to be allowed to do a lot, but on the other hand I do want to sage him quickly. 11) Lilina. Very low level but very trainable against these pitiful enemies. This is a great chance to level her. 12) Clarine. A healer, mounted, and also here to build supports. She’s got a lot to do. 13) Saul. I definitely need a second healer. Notable Units Rejected: 1) Thany. I’d definitely like to bring her. I mean, I need to train her to get the Ilia route. And I really want a flyer to get my troops around. But the map has pretty much nothing but units that crush her and she’s mediocre to begin with. 2) Lot. No weapon triangle edge and he’s overleveled and I’m not trying to build supports for him. 3) Treck. I’d like to bring him but there’s no space on the team with Noah here. As usual, this formation is optimized for rescue dropping. My first task is to get as many people as possible over the nearby bridge. The terrain I have to deploy onto is bad and I’ll be tripping over my own army unless I compress it by having lots of people carry other units. Gear is totally standard except for some spare iron weapons for the new recruits. It’s not an interesting chapter or one that requires any unusual tactics besides just carrying people over bridges. The Characters:  A really gullible and kind of dumb young woman traveling around to become a great swordfighter. She’s a heck of a lot less annoying than Karla or Karel since she’s not a psycho, but she unfortunately has even less background and personality than they did. However she’s actually pretty good for a sword user. I never really noticed it before, but statistically she’s Rutger’s match or better at pretty much every level. She even has more Str than him nearly all the time with their HM bonuses. And her affinity is one of the best instead of the very worst. Of course, myrmidon remains a sucky class and her support pool is trash. Still, pretty usable. I think I’ll give her a try.  Oh and she has the Wo Dao. Once again the game hypes it endlessly. Once again it’s mediocre.  ... ... ... As quiet as Rath, Shin is a very loyal member of the Kutolah tribe who venerates chief Dayan and tries to protect Sue. He comes off as kind of a jerk since he just walks away from or doesn’t respond to friendly people. Even more than most Sacaean men do. Mine has almost the worst possible HM bonuses, which is unfortunate since –despite his hype- he’s not actually that good. Despite solid stats. this is still an archer. On a horse, sure, and that’s nice, but being locked to bows till level 20 is absolutely horrible. And when he promotes he’s just another fast sword user with decent Str On a horse. There are just waaaaay too many other, better mounted units who have swords as well as better weapons. Or people like Dieck and Oujay who have comparable stats but have handaxes instead of bows. He's probably juuuuust good enough to earn a promotion, but as much because I want someone to wield Miurgre as anything else.  The least crazy guy to have this face in all of FE (and there are at least 10 of them, maybe more) is just another random bandit who thinks bandits can beat an army in a head to head fight. I’ve heard this joke before. Oh and he raves on and on about the mediocre Wo Dao. His whole evil plan is to acquire it through the most roundabout means possible because it’s valuable. Know what’s more valuable? Any of the village treasures on this chapter. Or his own gear even. Go raid a village like bandits are supposed to instead, man.  Yeah, this is the most dangerous boss to date. 65 crit. 26 damage. If you are hit, you are dead. And he even has a 35 crit chance at range due to his massive berserker bonus. No matter what you do, there is a very high chance of him instant killing you. That’s pretty lame honestly. Playing Through:  A straightforward opening for me; Lance and Alan drop Oujay.  Then Sue and Noah drop Roy. Now there are no targets not armed with swords.  Now things get a little interesting. Infantry can’t move after rescuing, so I have to put people like Lilina next to the spot the rescuer will go to beforehand.    That’s just about maximum possible progress. I could have done a bit more by doing no drops and instead having every single cavalry character just carry someone, but that would leave them more vulnerable.  Noah weakens this one for Sue.  The rare Give command is useful here. Clarine, moving from near the back, can Give Saul to Alan. Then Alan can carry and drop him very far away.  So with Lugh planted here, my drops are complete. Good progress. And very safe. Meanwhile, I maintain my support formation of Rutger next to Clarine and DIeck. And that’s turn 2.  So, semi-unexpectedly, here she is again only 2-3 chapters after she last ran off.  Scott, a bandit, has somehow convinced Fir that he’s actually an honest man defending the townsfolk from Roy’s group (who he accuses of being bandits). This makes absolutely no sense at all. But it’s the official story the Etrurian traitors spread.  She is easily manipulated and falls for this hook, line, and sinker.  She’s assigned to work with Shin here. There is absolutely no reason he would be working with these bandits. He’s supposed to be looking for Sue. Sue should not be here. And she certainly was not here a month ago or whenever he signed on with these cutthroats. He really sucks at his job.  She’s dumb, but at least she’s a decent person- unlike the similar Karel and Karla.  And he’s both a twerp to her for no reason throughout their long conversation and apparently willing to work with bandits for money even when he has an important mission to do instead.  So now he launches into the clue that reveals how to recruit him. And of course you have to restart on your first play because there’s no indication till 2 turns in that these guys even exist here, let alone how you recruit them.  This plan is stupid.  Yeah, there’s like 10 copies.  550 gold. A killing edge is worth more. Your own gear is worth more. Any item from any village on the map is worth more. Anyway. So he has this lone, untrained, and trusting girl in his castle surrounded by his men and he wants to get her sword. And he’s an uber warrior. But he doesn’t kill her or have his men kill her or just swipe it while she’s asleep in his castle. No, his plan is to wait for the Lycian army to arrive, manipulate her into fighting them, have one of his minions stalk her and hopefully not be seen, hope the Lycians kill her but do NOT take her sword, and hope no one stops his minion from loot ninjaing the sword. The sword that isn’t even really valuable. This plan is too stupid to wrap my head around.  Here’s how things look on turn 3. I need to cut through these two and keep moving at an efficient pace.  Oh and I think they forgot to translate this or something. Seihou?  Well Chad kills the mercenary easily enough and gets another sweet level.  Lilina nets a full SIXTY XP from killing the archer. Nice!  What’s left is basically another rescue puzzle.  Roy is dropped to create a screen for others to deploy safely.  This formation is getting really strung out. It’s pretty much the best I can do while still building more supports though. And it’s way better than the no-rescue version where I’d be lucky to even have one person over this bridge.  Stop me if you’ve heard this one before, but I’m weakening targets for other people to finish.  People like Oujay, who could barely reach this guy and was therefore a good choice.  Alan rides over to this spot where he can lure that archer and fighter without blocking access to them.  Noah and Chad drop in LIlina and the rest follow. That’s it. There’s maybe 2 enemies to fight every turn; pretty boring.  Ok, he started off decently fast but he has really been piling the speed on recently. He’s become pretty mediocre in every other stat though.  I believe Fir is here, in the fog. In that case, Roy’s current space is unsafe, but 1 space south would be fine.  But I attack anyway!  Sue gets the kill.  Excellent.  Clarine keeps Saul durable.  And then the cavaliers + Oujay drop Roy and Sue both back to safety. Now there will be nothing in the way as I talk to Fir next turn. Plus Sue is in place in case Shin arrives first. I’m not sure where he is; he should have arrived by now. Next to deal with the bottom units.  Lilina finishes off the fighter. She's doing great.  So here’s the situation. I want Chad to kill the archer, but I also want to heal him. However, I still want Saul in reach of most of the top leftish units. And I want to build supports.  Well first things first, Saul does the heal.  Then Chad gets the kill.  Dieck rescues Saul.  And Rutger moves into the ideal position and drops him. That extra square actually means a lot since it puts him in range of everyone injured. That’s the turn.  Are there EVER multiple units available to talk to?  Fir immediately tries to kill him after he greets her, not bothering to ask questions.  Oh really? That doesn’t calm her down of course.   Dun dun dun! She’s confused because that’s the guy she works for. Then Noah points out that some pirate is following her.  And he gives it away. If it weren’t for Scott’s pointlessly complicated plan to acquire a moderately valuable sword, Fir might never have believed Noah.  I have no idea why Shin isn’t here since he starts ahead of Fir and moves faster. Maybe he just doesn’t move for a turn or two? Whatever the reason, this formation should make it easy to get Sue up to safely talk to him.  Meanwhile, Chad is bait on the bottom front as the kid brigade moves in to sweep out the hardest remaining enemy position. I’d better be careful; this could turn into a slugfest!  Turn 7 begins. This is at least 50% of the enemies who are still alive on the top front of the map. And one of them is Shin, all ready to be talked to and then traded with.  Why were you looking for her here? This is the worst place to look for her. She was sent to Lycia, she was captured in Lycia, and she joined the Lycian army. And he couldn’t feasibly have found out we were suddenly being sent here, found out where we were going to land, beaten us there, got work there, and then just waited for us either. In fact, he seems surprised to see her. This is absurd nonsense.  Sue will keep moving so that he can take her spare bow and then shoot.  But first, Alan weakens the target. One nice thing about support bonuses is that, with positioning, you can turn them on or off at will. That lets you manipulate your damage up and down as you need it to for purposes like this.  NOW Shin takes the bow.  Oujay moves in to open the bridge.  Lance weakens this one for Noah. It’s not like I want to train Noah, but he’s low level and I had to bring him, so I might as well get some good XP using him.  Nice! Unlike Alan, Lance is pretty solidly above average in several stats.  Noah is really hard to use. He can’t double, he can’t take hits, he can’t do damage, and he can’t hit even hit with an iron sword.  So here come all the remaining south enemies. This small but elite group SHOULD be able to beat them.  And I think I can do it without giving many kills to the overleveled Lugh too.  Great!  Man, my whole team seems to be doing well in their offensive stats. I don’t have anyone who can really tank though.  And Chad blocks for the group once again.  Of course. I am just getting fantastic levels this chapt-  Well at least I can always count on you, Saul.  I really need a healer up top; it was probably a mistake to have Clarine delay a turn to heal one of the south group.  So one thing I’ve noticed: enemy units actually seem to move in the reverse of FE7 order. The boss goes last and the further you are BELOW him on the list, the faster you go. I need to test this a bit more.  That caused problems for me. See, I thought the mage would go first, but now the mage is out of range and I’ll have to deal with both it and the archer at once. That’s actually dangerous to Chad.  Well there’s no good way to face them now, so I’m going to have to trust to that 85% odds that Chad survives. It would have been nice to have the sure thing though.  Oujay keeps chopping. The top right enemy group only has a few more guys in it.  He’s turning out fantastic.  The same pattern is repeated as Lance weakens a guy for Noah.  That’s actually a good level. I’m surprised.  These two are the sole survivors.  Noah is nearly dead from 2 iron bow shots over 2 turns.  Alright, things are looking good on the bottom left. If Lilina misses this, Chad will pull out and Lugh will step in and kill the archer. Then everyone should be safe.  Great. Seriously, all she needs is speed right now.  And the bottom is empty.  Lance gives Noah another easy kill.  Which he flubs. Darn.  Well Oujay kills the fighter so there’s no danger at least.  Meanwhile, I want to sweep the top up. There’s this guy and then I think 3 more hidden in the fog. The trouble is safely getting past the boss and then getting back to deal with the reinforcements.  Sue is given this kill, not Shin, because she’s worse than him so it’s harder to find kills for her.  Clarine gets her first good level up in forever.  And on the enemy turn, here come the last 3 guys.  Alright, take another shot at it, Noah.  He hit, so Lance exits with Oujay.  I didn’t have a good position for dealing with these 3, mainly due to needing to avoid the uber boss. Now I need to get Rutger into position by rescuing and then having Shin drop him. That will form a good defensive line.  I hate that no matter what you do and who you use, you cannot get either Scott’s hit or his crit down to 0 with even his handaxe, so there’s always a chance of having to restart here at the end of the chapter.  Roy gets a bad level while tanking. He’s now slightly below average all in all, though that completely mediocre Str with which he can barely get kills even with max support bonuses is still well above his horrible averages.  Noah visits this house here. Now notice where it’s positioned. One always has access to the village nearby BEFORE the house.  Which is absolutely terrible placement. See, this house which you will not get to first is the only place where you’re told that you can’t visit both villages. Thus you will normally get this warning only AFTER visiting a village and therefore being blocked out of the other one. But the worst part is that there's really no indication that this leads to a route split- and they don't even give you a hint about the different treasures in the two villages. In short, the game makes it impossible to make an intelligent choice without consulting a guide.  Well I’m pretty much finished. No one left alive but the boss.  But the reinforcements are coming now and my formation is a mess. I really wish I could have beaten everyone just a single turn earlier. Then I could have straightened this mess out. Oh well. Eliminating absolutely everything before the reins even arrive makes it really easy to just farm them.  Alright, I’m going with the Echidna route. The vote from readers was roughly evenly split (not counting a bunch of people just telling me to do the route I want to). Ultimately, I’m pretty sure that Bartre’s route is the smarter one to take, but I’m also pretty sure that just about everyone does Echidna’s route all the time anyway and that it’s significantly harder, so it’s the one I should show.  In this village we learn about the mines of Mount Ebrakhm to the north, where the miners are forced to work in brutal conditions until they die. The descriptions of what’s happening in this colony are half Congo Free State and half Auschwitz, which is unusually serious for FE. All in all I think they do a pretty good job of portraying the atrocities of colonialism and awfulness of forced labor and that’s one of the things about this arc which could have turned it into a fairly good standalone story.  Well it’s turn 12, so the reinforcements pop up. The one from the south fortress immediately runs for the remaining village to destroy it.  This spot is the place to be. The pirate has no choice but to walk 3 spaces right, attack the sword user, get heavily damaged, and then be finished off by the weak unit of choice. Controlling the pirates is very important. You can’t take the fight to them, so you have to make sure they go where you want and don’t build up into an actually dangerous horde.  Chad got to the village area first of course, and he gets his first bad level defending it. Alas, now it's impossible for him to get 20 str.  Oujay does pretty well moving into position to deal with the steel axe pirates.  So instead of the forecast slugfest, I end up being able to farm the enemy easily. One will always walk up to Lance there, nearly die, then get finished by whoever I want. One will always walk up to Oujay on the southern beach, nearly die, then get finished by whoever I want. And the last one is in the Oujay area but has a handaxe, so Lugh will often kill it immediately. Can’t let the handaxe ones build up.  Anyway, everything from here on out is basically me moving people around for heals and support while getting loads of level ups for free.  A very nice start for Shin, though not unexpected. He’s going to cap all of those anyway.  I’ve decided that since Lilina is easy to train in all sorts of places but Fir is pretty much only easy to train here, I should mostly use Fir instead this chapter. But she’s not even fast enough to double a pirate. Shameful! Oh well. Rutger isn’t actually fast enough either if I have him use a steel sword, so he can weaken it. These pirates are FAST.  Chad gets the silver sword. Could be handy.  Lance, Alan, and Roy eventually regroup and prepare to fight the boss. Rutger takes Lance’s place weakening pirates.  Noah goes shopping before returning and I pick up some more iron swords as well as a hammer. My current one is nearly broken.  Another Shin level for Shin.  Good start! Anyway, the rest of the update is pretty much just level ups.  There we go. Alan can beat this guy with maximum support, hugely blessed speed, solid luck, and the weapon triangle. Of course, Scott can still hit him with his killer axe.  Chad has nothing to do so he visits the bottom left house. Where, after 80-100% of the chapter is over, someone explains the basics of fog of war. What were they thinking with house positions on this level?  Well that’s disappointing. His first level that wasn’t good.  Fir is doing very nicely. Soon she’ll actually be able to double pirates!  Amazing!  Even Clarine isn’t doing terribly.  Meh.  Double meh.  Nice! This fight with Scott is a really long one. I would barely be scratching him without maximum offense support and the weapon triangle.  All she needs is speed, but this stuff helps a bit at least.  It’s turn 21, so the last reinforcements are done and it’s time to kill Scott. Alan is higher level, so I’m giving Lance the kill.  Nice!  Shin finishes the last enemy.  Saul gets yet another bad level. This is a REALLY bad Saul.  We’ve won of course, but I want to do a bit more heal and support grinding.  In particular, Rutger and Clarine now get their B one.  The man has the patience of a saint if she’s only beginning to get on his nerves now after all she’s said to him.  She responds to this completely mild and more than justified remark by starting to cry. Ugh, what a wimp.  Well on turn 24 all healing and supporting and shopping is done, so I’ll end things.  Yep, and their ineffectual and poorly thought out ambush gives the conspiracy away.  I couldn’t have put it better myself. I believe I gained a total of 30 level ups that chapter. That’s more than any chapter of 7 but Cog of Destiny. This game gives you tons and tons of low level but easily usable units and massively high level but weak enemies to train them on. The crazy thing is, this 30 level ups per chapter pace is mostly unsustainable but is the bare minimum on several later chapters. The XP requirement in this game looks unreasonably high so far. Total Restarts: 3 Turn Surplus: -13 (4 turns lost, but I think they were pretty well spent, and I’ve demonstrated that it’s really easy to keep this trending in the right direction when I want it to) Things I Regret Missing: A couple of uses of Marcus’s silver lance on Rude, a Chapter 5 nomad Marcus had to kill Melth fucked around with this message at 04:37 on Jul 31, 2015 |
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May 9, 2015 00:22
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The problem with Fir is that by the time you get her you've already gotten Rutger who is most likely awesome so why bother with a level 1 version of him? And your Strength Blessed Sue continues to amuse me.
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May 9, 2015 00:31
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