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Insurrectionist
May 21, 2007


Definitely one of the more fun challenging chapters in the game, since the actual challenge is in the first few turns so resetting isn't that big of a deal. It does indeed then continue for far too long with little to do afterwards though.

Also you mixed up Yuno and Sigune in there early on.

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Fionordequester
Dec 27, 2012

Actually, I respectfully disagree with you there. For as obviously flawed as this game is, there ARE a lot of really good things about it. The presentation and atmosphere, for example, are the most immediate things. No other Yu-Gi-Oh game goes out of the way to really make


Here's what Insurrectionist is talking about...

Melth posted:

Now this is decidedly not an air map. The walls and lack of difficult terrain mean they have no mobility advantage, while the several strong ballistae and snipers leave them specially vulnerable. Nonetheless, some are needed to deal with the right flank properly and recruit Sigune.

marshmallow creep
Dec 10, 2008

I've been sitting here for 5 mins trying to think of a joke to make but I just realised the animators of Mass Effect already did it for me



On the J/Y thing, they're also letters that get pronounced like each other frequently depending on the language or accent of a place--my native Spanish students struggle with the difference between "yellow" and "jello" all the time, for example.

Paused
Oct 24, 2010


Melth posted:



Iíd be interested in learning how staff enemies choose their targets.

Going off the Youtube 0% growth with commentary video for this very level, enemy staff AI priorities targets characters lower in the playing order.

Insurrectionist
May 21, 2007


Seems very arbitrary. You'd think they'd have some kind of order of priority instead, but I guess that'd be too complicated.

marshmallow creep
Dec 10, 2008

I've been sitting here for 5 mins trying to think of a joke to make but I just realised the animators of Mass Effect already did it for me



Is playing order set when you select your roster for a map? So if you put your staff-bait at the bottom of the list they'd be much more likely to eat casts?

Onmi
Jul 12, 2013

If someone says it one more time I'm having Florina show up as a corpse. I'm not even kidding, I was pissed off with people doing that shit back in 2010, and I'm not dealing with it now in 2016.


Lotish posted:

Is playing order set when you select your roster for a map? So if you put your staff-bait at the bottom of the list they'd be much more likely to eat casts?

Yes, that's how a lot of 0% growths run, it's a lot like speed running in that there's routing and planning because the main thing that the FE community as a whole uses to judge Fire Emblem is turn-count. So even playing in a category like "0% Growths" you're playing to do it in as few turns as possible. Next is Efficiency which is judged the same way with the addage of "But you still have to get basically everything." So for Wendy, she's at the very bottom of the usability list because her entire use is she thows a javelin to break a wall that gets Ogier out to actually do stuff.

Ranks are probably the last thing the community plays for next to just casually playing through, mostly because there's pretty much no room for improvement on rank scores, and the only real judge for 'skill' is similar to speedrunning, how few turns.

I would seriously recommend checking out, if you want to see FE6 ran in an insane way besides 0% growths, Tootaches run of the game. LTC is pretty bonkers.

Melth
Feb 16, 2015

Victory and/or death!




A horrible chapter. Who in the world though the map design was a good idea? This chapter is a boring waste of time. Itís not challenging, thereís nothing interesting to do, thereís no way to farm much XP, there are no fun treasures to acquire, or anything. Itís just a pointless slog hacking through dozens of walls.

Anyway, this is the second to last legendary weapon sidequest and itís remarkable mainly for being the only one without a trap gimmick. Its gimmick is cracked walls instead. Weíve seen them before. Five times by my count. But they were always in important places and opening them or not was a strategic choice. Now the map consists of nothing else.

Even the legendary weapon is a really boring one; +5 skill is just +10 hit and +2.5 crit.

Chapter Summary:
Roy gets another legendary weapon from another generic Bern commander. Guinevere finally finishes telling Zephielís story.




Good old Castle Eldessa. I like it so much better than Edessa. Or all the other alternate spellings. They really get noticeably sloppy with the translation in this chapter and spell Maltet at least 3 different ways by my count.




So Bern had a big army of seriously strong troops in these ruins right next to Edessa. They could have helped Roartz. They didnít.

Elsewhere, Bern troops had been ordered to do anything necessary to destroy the legendary weapons. They freed notorious bandits to get manpower to seal one up, devoted half their army in Arcadia to doing nothing but trying to destroy Forblaze (even dying to give the others more time to work), and their allies put a crazed rogue Bishop in charge of guarding the tower where Aureola was kept. This weapon has been in their power for months, and they could easily have destroyed it. They didn't.

The writers weren't even trying when they made this game.




UhÖ




Murdock is as lousy a general as Narshen. Every order he gives is either stupid or outright treasonous.




What? Why would we? This is the second time someone has staked their entire battle plan on us just getting bored and walking away from an objective we have to have! Granted this chapter is REALLY boring. But we CANíT skip it.




Prince Mildain remains the go-to guy for knowing stuff. Niime belongs in these conversations, as do several other people who should know a lot about Maltet. Like Zealot. This ruin is right next to his castle. But Roy only talks to Mildain because this game is committed to a destructive policy of never including dialog for any people who might conceivably be dead. Except for Sophia that one time.




Another spelling.




Some praise of Barigan as the greatest knight ever follows. What about Roland?!




Most buildings do. But heís right. This one consists of basically nothing but walls.


Battle Preparations & the Map:



Secondary Objective: Absolutely none. Hope you like attacking walls!
Reinforcements: None. Hope you like attacking walls!
Turn Limit: 25. More than enough time even if you REALLY like attacking walls and decide to destroy them all.

Screw this map! Iím had more than enough of it playing through and I donít feel like talking about it. Itís absolutely terrible, one of the worst in the series. Thatís all I have to say.

Ö

Ö

Ugh, fine. Look, thereís a bunch of walls everywhere. The enemy will not break them. This means you must move at a snailís pace, spending 2-3 attacks (out of only 3 units at most in the top two groups) to break open a door, another turn or two fighting through the weak enemies who block your path, unable to help each other, and then restart the process.

Thereís no challenge because the enemy is locked into the rooms and never breaks the walls, so theyíre totally unable to help each other. Even the numerous longbows on the snipers are at worst a minor nuisance.

The enemies are weak too. Poorly armed and low level by and large.

So there are no circumstances under which you should be at risk of losing a unit here.

The only lasting obstacles are defenseless walls and boredom. Oh and two staff druids. They arenít even strong staff druids. And you can completely control their targets because their range just barely reaches you.




For some reason, thereís like one high level guy among the level 5 promoted enemies. Ooh, scary. Except heís got a hammer (a terrible weapon in this game). Oh and we fought a guy (2 actually) almost precisely this strong 11 chapters ago as a reinforcement in the battle in Djuto.

This is what passes for difficulty here. One enemy as strong as a guy fought half the game ago wielding a terrible weapon and waiting meekly in a box for you to kill him- or skip him outright- at your leisure.




A bad joke of a chapter like this deserves a bad joke of an army. Iím running out of weak people though. This is EVERYONE who is unpromoted and not level 20 (Oh except Fir whoís level 19 with 86 XP). And Roy, whoís level 20 but canít be excluded from the list.

Geese is level 18 with a bunch of XP, Treck and Cath arenít far behind. Noah and Sophia and the archers are all over 10. Only Ward and Bors and Wendy are truly low level.

Anyway, the party is split into 3 groups which are spread out over a gigantic area. The top left and top right groups only get 3 people, so thereís no way for them to really cover all the bases or operate efficiently. Here are the formations I went with:









Units Allowed: 12 + Roy. That's plenty, the problem is that there are 2 isolated groups of only 3 people. They're not going to be effective fighting forces.
Units Brought:
1) Roy. Required. Canít do much. Heís good at feebly poking enemies into low HP for units Iím giving XP to though.
2) Niime. Because I didnít get serious about training a real staff user, Niime is actually my only option for one job I need done to complete this chapter efficiently.
3) Gonzalez. I need one strong guy with an axe for it too.
4) Lalum. Canít do anything interesting without her.
5) Treck. One of my best and most trainable lowish-level units.
6) Ward. One of my worst and least trainable low-level units. For that reason, I am determined to train him here.
7) Zeiss. Mostly I just want to promote him so I donít need to spend a turn on that next chapter. Heíll also be reasonably good backup when the weaklings get in trouble.
8) Ray. Every group needs a healer. Ray is my lowest level one.
9) Wolt. Almost as worthless as Ward. He must be leveled to show my derision.
10) Sophia. I WILL get Sophia to level 20 even though sheís a bad unit and has turned out awfully so far.
11) Lilina. I want to get a bit of staff XP here. Sheís not far from a B rank already.
12) Noah. Actually not strictly worse than Treck for once. See, he has a C in swords and can therefore use a handy Killing Edge. Treck is stuck with iron and javelins.
13) Dorothy. Only a little better than Wolt.
Notable Units Rejected:
1) Wendy. Not even usable here! Not even on a chapter where I can engineer opportunities to train WARD! Sheís just too slow-moving and annoying to deal with and there are too many axe-users.
2) Bors. Like Wendy but heís already disappointed me with several bad levels when I tried to use him.
3) Barth. He's a bit better but not even actually low-level.
4) Cath. Sheís outright high level already. Iím going to get her to 20. But not here.

Some thought went into the exact group structure, though in retrospect I probably should have switched the places of Dorothy and Wolt as well as Noah and Treck.

Gonzalez is armed to the teeth with axes. Iron, hand, swordreaver, hammer, and Armads. Each to deal with one particular foe on his mission.

Niime has Flux, Eclipse (a remarkably good tool for quickly disposing of walls), Heal, Physic, and Warp.

Zeiss has an iron lance, javelin, vulnerary, killer lance, and Elysian Whipe.

Lalum is carrying a Restore for Niime and an iron sword for Zeiss.

Gear for Roy is his usual: iron sword, killing edge, light brand, and vulnerary.

Ward canít use any interesting axes, so he just has iron and hand. Treck has fairly generic cavalier gear.

Ray has Flux and Nosferatu and Heal.

Sophia has Flux and Nosferatu.

Wolt and Dorothy canít use many bows, so each has iron and steel and long.

Noah has generic cavalier gear + a Killing Edge.

And Lilina has Heal, Restore, and Fire.

Thus every team has a healer, most have a restorer, nearly everyone can fire over walls or past each other, and Iíve got a plan to eliminate the staff enemies quickly.


The Characters:




A generic general and General. Heís more or less strictly worse than Roartz last chapter. Not a problem and not even really a character. I think he's even the 3rd or 4th boss to have this face.


Playing Through:




Zeiss moves and promotes. Nice bonuses. You can see that the whole left side is already close to capped.




Next Gonzalez attacks the wall with his handaxe. It had to be this wall and the precise move order and positioning is critical here.




Because now Lalum can trade Zeiss his iron sword and dance for Gonzales at the same time.




Which allows Niime to warp him in- juuuuust barely, he had to stand in that row- ready to move.




He scores a decent level killing the Berserk druid. On anyone else, this would be pretty great.




The rest move in, Ward opens the wall up, and Treck blocks the axe users.




The right crew break a wall and Dorothy takes a shot at the enemy.




The left side's broken wall is less conveniently located and the team is also weaker. Wolt and Sophia will both be doubled or instant killed or both by even the feeblest enemies here. I must make sure theyíre never attacked or countered. Even Ray is pretty fragile.




Iíd been worried about an attack on Gonzales, but the sleep druid uselessly targets Zeiss instead.




Noah weakens this target for Dorothy and then Lilina heals. This is a new turn, by the way. Iím going to just blur through turns here; thereís very little to say.




On the left, Wolt and the others are unsafe but Iíve found a way to feed at least one kill to them instead of Ray.




Gonzalez kills the Sleep druid with his Swordreaver at the ready.




Lalum gets the Restore to Niime in exchange for the Warp she no longer needs and she fixes Zeiss.




Treck gets a bad level fighting the tough warrior.




The left side is really struggling. Theyíre incredibly weak.




The right side can at least break walls.




I arrange for Treck to kill the warrior and he gets a sweet level. Treck did quite well. Heís just not quite good enough to make the team anyway.




Gonzalez has had poor luck dodging and worse hitting, so I pull him back for some Physicing.




Joy.




Gonzalez continues to do rather badly.




As I was saying.




Lilina tanks for the right group.




Ray gets a bad level. Due to some unexpected hits and misses, my plan to give one of the kills to Wolt or Sophia has been set back.




Sophia gets this one at least, but Iíd had a chance at 2.




The next wall is weakened but not yet broken.




Ward is borderline untrainable, as you can see. Those are actually about the best odds of winning you can possibly get. I mean, he needs to miss and then be hit twice to die.




Screw you, man! It wasnít easy giving you that XP!




Gonzalez finally kills the swordmaster.




Treck is actually safe in this position. Only 2 of the enemies can hit him and it would take all 3 to kill him.




Lilina gets a bad level, but sheís already capped the important stuff, so thatís ok.




This enemy will stand there like a slack-jawed idiot and not run to make room for his ranged allies as Wolt chips him down.




He gets a lousy level off the first chip.




Lilina fed a warrior to Dorothy, who is becoming absurdly strong.




Still, theyíre not making much progress. No one is.




Niime does both close and long ranged healing this turn and then is dropped to safety.




Gonzalez picks a fight with a new group.




Wolt is still chipping away as his buddies move in.




Itís tricky to weaken this guy without killing him or putting someone in the Sniperís longbow range.




More heals.




Nice!




Dorothy finally gets the kill and some stats that arenít str.




And that room is cleared.




No more longbow; they can advance safely.




These guys havenít even broken one wall.




Treck is easy to feed compared to the rest.




Roy himself is beginning to fight through. He has to reach the throne eventually.




Gonzales kills another Longbow user.




Man, heís doing badly this chapter.




Time to get to safety.




And pinned! Now I can give Ward the kill. Of course, he whiffs several times first.




Right group is mostly moving down, Dorothy chipping away at a myrmidon.




Wolt finally drops a target- stepping back to attack from safety with his longbow- and gets a decent level.




Sophia got a kill too. Both have been chipping away for a while.




Speed, thatís a good stat.




Just moving down.




They move into the room they emptied.




Finally a good level on Ward when he drops the archer at last.




Treck is the only one pulling down real levels consistently.




A path has been cleared for Roy.




Well thatís terrible.




Dorothy is still trying to fight.




And failing to level.




Noah is ready for his next target.




Weapons and patience mostly. Gonzales is wielding Armads because his hammer canít hit. Thereís no reason not to kill this guy early since there's no reinforcements it could stop.




Moving down.




The way is opened for Roy.




Gonzalez takes a while, but finally kills Teck.




There we go. Thatís a good level for this guy.




The last few enemies are too scattered to hunt down efficiently.




Well thatís awful.




Zeiss gets another bad level from one of the last few enemies.




And turn 13 win. There are 2 enemies left, but killing them would take way too long to be worth it.




And spelled in yet another way.




How? Did they have others who werenít even in this ruin and didnít help in either battle?




Merlinus wants to attack the people fleeing. Therefore thatís a bad idea, as Roy immediately concludes.




Considering how fanatical many of these people turn out to be, this is kind of a bad idea.




About time! Weíve spent all game waiting for this to finally begin.




She gets back into Zephielís story. Once again, they have to give us a recap because itís potentially been so long since the last part. That really should have told them they were doing something wrong.




Roy immediately realizes the man was jealous.




To punish his son, Desmond declared that the throne would pass to Guinevereís husband instead of Zephiel.




How? How is that bad at all? This whole hereditary monarchy thing is stupid to begin with.




Zephiel actually reacted reasonably.




The story finally goes somewhere. Itís been at least 3 chapters.




This time frame (and everything else about this incident actually) makes it rather implausible how in 7 Hector and Eliwood get such totally confused reports.




Somehow.




Desmond decided to just kill Zephiel, his wife, Murdock, and everyone else too.




Zephiel finally responds with a scheme of his own.




Itís implied that Zephiel sat up and stabbed him from his coffin or something, though not explained exactly.

That reminds me of a legendary viking raid on the Italian city of Luna. Seeing that the city was far too well defended for them to attack, the raiding party put their leader in a coffin and wept as they walked up to the gate unarmed. They asked for the bishop and lords of the city to give their lord the proper funeral a man of his stature deserved. At the funeral, their ďdeadĒ leader sat up and killed the bishop and revealed weapons stashed beneath him inside his coffin, at which point his men were able to capture the rulers of the city and sack it from inside.




And then Zephiel was evil!




What? No you didnít. That was like 10 years ago or something. You didnít decide to do anything until he started this war, you said so yourself.




Suddenly, the Fire Emblem theme is playing. At long last, the game actually uses good music at an important point. Granted itís not a unique theme for this scene as it would be in a better game in the series, but itís something at least.




This just sounds silly. As far as he knows at the moment, the Fire Emblem is just a random jewel.


Total Restarts: 16 (None here)
Turn Surplus: +48 (+12 here)
Things I Regret Missing: A couple of uses of Marcusís silver lance on Rude, a Chapter 5 nomad Marcus had to kill, two Chapter 12 fighters I couldnít kill since I needed supports built elsewhere, a pirate and a wyvern rider on 14x who I didnít have time to go after, 2 enemies in a room I didnít have time to kill on chapter 20x.
Legendary Weapon Scoreboard: Durandal slew Ohtz using Oujay on chapter 14x, turn 2; and the top left mamkute using Oujay on chapter 16, turn 9; and Arcard using Oujay on chapter 17, turn 16. Forblaze slew the top right mamkute using Lugh on chapter 16, turn 6. Forblaze slew the left section hero using Lugh on chapter 20, turn 2. Forblaze slew the purge bishop using Lugh on chapter 20, turn 5. Armads slew Teck using Gonzalez on chapter 20x, turn 10.

Melth fucked around with this message at 22:18 on Aug 18, 2015

Keldulas
Mar 18, 2009


That was entertainingly painful to watch. The characters themselves, and your levels for like the last 4 chapters. It seems that the game is determined to have the garbage characters cement their status.

Manatee Cannon
Aug 26, 2010





Treck is legit good for his level

I honestly don't remember this map at all. I did get the good ending for this game, so I must have played this map, but it just does not ring a bell. I guess it's like the desert gaiden chapter in FE7 but bigger and without the gimmick?

Insurrectionist
May 21, 2007


drat, that's a nice Treck. Also even for Sophia this Sophia is bad, I'm amazed you can manage to feed her levels. On the other hand, Dorothy seems to be specializing in just that - an Archer with such poo poo speed (not that Wolt is doing any better) is worthless for actually contributing, but with her strength she should have little problem dealing the requisite damage to finish off most enemies.

E: I find it especially funny that Sophia is even or ahead on HP, Skill, Luck and Res...and behind on Mag, Speed and Def. It's like she's conspiring to distribute her stats the worst ways possible. I guess that extra .8 Skill lets her hit a liiiittle bit easier.

Insurrectionist fucked around with this message at 13:30 on Jun 21, 2015

marshmallow creep
Dec 10, 2008

I've been sitting here for 5 mins trying to think of a joke to make but I just realised the animators of Mass Effect already did it for me



I'm sure if Sophia had strength or something equally useless for mage she'd funnel all her points there.

Melth
Feb 16, 2015

Victory and/or death!


Keldulas posted:

That was entertainingly painful to watch. The characters themselves, and your levels for like the last 4 chapters. It seems that the game is determined to have the garbage characters cement their status.


Yeah, it's really been remarkable how the weak characters I've gone out of my way to painstakingly train keep pulling down particularly horrible levels.


Manatee Cannon posted:


I honestly don't remember this map at all. I did get the good ending for this game, so I must have played this map, but it just does not ring a bell. I guess it's like the desert gaiden chapter in FE7 but bigger and without the gimmick?

It's really boring and not really memorable, so I'm not surprised. I wouldn't compare it to Genesis really, that map has a bunch of stuff to do and legitimately dangerous enemies loaded up with long-ranged staves and tomes. Plus a gimmick that's actually interesting and many fewer cracked walls. I think a better comparison might be Tower of Valni 6 or Lagdou Ruins 4. Even those are flawed comparisons because they're much smaller and have fewer walls and do have other stuff going on.

Melth fucked around with this message at 18:42 on Jun 21, 2015

marshmallow creep
Dec 10, 2008

I've been sitting here for 5 mins trying to think of a joke to make but I just realised the animators of Mass Effect already did it for me



Ha. Last time I reached Tower of Valni 6 I said, "Oh yeah, I remember this; I have better things to do" and just quit.

fade5
May 31, 2012

by exmarx


Melth posted:

It's really boring and not really memorable, so I'm not surprised. I wouldn't compare it to Genesis really, that map has a bunch of stuff to do and legitimately dangerous enemies loaded up with long-ranged staves and tomes. Plus a gimmick that's actually interesting and many fewer cracked walls. I think a better comparison might be Tower of Valni 6 or Lagdou Ruins 4. Even those are flawed comparisons because they're much smaller and have fewer walls and do have other stuff going on.
Artix did a fun version of this chapter involving Berserk shenanigans, so that's the only reason I remember it. I'm happy you did some similar shenanigans here, namely warping in Gonzales and having him go nuts.:v:

Also you're way beyond the Levels/EXP requirement by now, right? I mean you got an insane number of levels in Ch 17, you trained Cath (somehow), and you got even more levels here in addition to leveling your strong guys normally.

Melth posted:

2) Niime. Because I didn't get serious about training a real staff user, Niime is actually my only option for one job I need done to complete this chapter efficiently.


Which allows Niime to warp him in- juuuuust barely, he had to stand in that row- ready to move.
So you were saying about Niime being horrible?:v:

Nah, but I basically agree with Insurrectionist:

Insurrectionist posted:

Some good points on Niime but totally disagree on staff leveling. 250 turns to get to A-rank is far more effort than I can be bothered with at least, and even 100 turns to Restore, while obviously simple before the end of the game, takes a few maps of constant staff-grinding. Of course, I usually go with the leveling a healer and promoting them approach rather than using the prepromotes, but still.
It's nice to have a guaranteed A-rank staff user with high magic since everyone's magic growths except Lilina's are just so drat shaky. Lilina with an A-rank in staves will of course blow Niime out of the water, and Ellen probably will too, but Lilina and especially Ellen don't always turn out good, while Niime is a known quantity every time. Plus Niime can always be an extra Physic-bot from halfway across the map, which is useful. There's also the painful lack of Guiding Rings available before the end of Ch 16, which makes it hard to train up your promoted magic guys in a timely manner.

Personality-wise, yeah I can see why you dislike Niime.

quote:


Gonzalez continues to do rather badly.
The dude just ate a critical from a Killing Edge Swordmaster and didn't flinch. For the most of the rest of your army that would be instant death, but Gonzales just laughs at it. I don't call that doing badly.:colbert:

fade5 fucked around with this message at 21:39 on Jun 22, 2015

Melth
Feb 16, 2015

Victory and/or death!


fade5 posted:


So you were saying about Niime being horrible?:v:

Nah, but I basically agree with Insurrectionist:

It's nice to have a guaranteed A-rank staff user with high magic since everyone's magic growths except Lilina's are just so drat shaky. Lilina with an A-rank in staves will of course blow Niime out of the water, and Ellen probably will too, but Lilina and especially Ellen don't always turn out good, while Niime is a known quantity every time. Plus Niime can always be an extra Physic-bot from halfway across the map, which is useful. There's also the painful lack of Guiding Rings available before the end of Ch 16, which makes it hard to train up your promoted magic guys in a timely manner.



The dude just ate a critical from a Killing Edge Swordmaster and didn't flinch. For the most of the rest of your army that would be instant death, but Gonzales just laughs at it. I don't call that doing badly.:colbert:

I mean, Pent was nice to have in large part due to his A in staves. He was one of the game's handiest staff users, even if Canas and Lucius were better. But that was because he was actually good enough that he didn't explode if enemies looked at him, wasn't already level 18 and thus didn't kill your XP ranking if he fought, and joined early enough in the game that it wasn't trivial to have better staff users if you wanted them.

Niime joins very late and is statistically one of the worst units in any Fire Emblem. Even in this game full of horrible staff units she doesn't stand out. I crippled my other staff users to the maximum feasible degree by going out of my way to divide XP among all 3 of them evenly, stopping using them when they hit level 20, not arena grinding, and not trying to start Lilina staff-grinding until a few chapters ago. It's just not hard to have a much better unit than Niime available.

And even for me, with no staff user with more Mag and an A, there's still only 1 time in the whole game where I need her level of Mag with staves. Most of the time you only need to Warp or Physic a handful of squares to make a huge impact (Consider how I played 14x and 16). Being able to help out one time does not make her a good unit. Also, Yodel joins immediately thereafter and is better for nearly all purposes- while still sucking.

The best arguments that can be made for Niime are actually just arguments for Physic being good, which is indisputable. It's kind of like how people say Guy is great because he has a Killing Edge. Killing Edges are great, but they don't make him great.


Also, most people tank swordmaster crits better than Gonzalez. He has fairly poor def for a melee guy and weapon triangle disadvantage. Swordmasters are rarely a threat at all in my experience.

Melth fucked around with this message at 00:17 on Jun 23, 2015

Melth
Feb 16, 2015

Victory and/or death!




Ö is not available in this chapter! You only get the sword after the sidequest. This makes the title rather bad, but on the other hand itís more appropriate narratively.

One really annoying thing about this game is the horrible dramatic timing of the sidequests. Theyíre positioned so that they maximally interrupt the action and kill most dramatic moments. Ostia has been liberated and Lilina saved but there are 5 minutes to get ready before Narshen shows up with his army? Sidequest time! The western isles have been saved but a rebellion has broken out in Etruria and Lycia may be about to be attacked? Sidequest time! Etruria is free and itís time to finally take the offensive against Bern? Sidequest time!

This chapterís sidequest is the only one thatís well positioned.

Anyway, this map is FE6ís Cog of Destiny. Itís much worse than the FE7 version as usual and has several terrible aspects, but is still one of this gameís more interesting and well-done maps.


Chapter Summary:
Roy at last arrives in Bern and fights one gigantic battle against Bern's army led by General Murdock. Then he arrives at the Shrine of Seals.




Thereís finally a good world map theme playing as this last stretch of the game begins. I canít seem to find a version of it that isnít an arrangement, but itís track 32 on this Serenes page:

http://serenesforest.net/music/binding-blade-game-rip/




Why? Thatís not any kind of important military objective. And it looks like itís right in the middle of the country. Donít we have border forts and whatnot to take? But apparently we just get there without incident.




Well the strongest anyway.




Stop pretending Etruria is helping! They arenít!




Murdock meets with his officers to finish their battle plans.




This is your only warning about how his squad will appear out of thin air. However, his squad is tiny and insignificant. The notion that they could turn the tide of this battle is nonsensical.




Murdock apparently thinks Roy- by virtue of being a successful general- must be a great warrior. Maybe if heíd learned anything at all about his enemy he wouldnít be in this situation.




Yodel has apparently come all the way across Sacae on his own to talk with Roy.




He confirms what Roy already thought and the player definitely knew: Bern has been working with the Dark Dragon.




Because Hartmut didnít actually kill it when he had the chance.




This seems like the kind of critical information that should not have been lost.







Oh really?




Ö




Roy asks an actually important question.




Ö No. Weíre not having this discussion about how dragons take human form again!




We talked about this too!




NOW weíre getting somewhere. Of course, the player has known about this for 20 chapters.




Shut up! How many times have we been over this?




Ok, hand them over and stop talking.


Battle Preparations & the Map:



Secondary Objective: Get the Knight Crest from the village
Secondary Objective: Steal the Knight Crest from Murdock
Secondary Objective: Build some supports
Secondary Objective: Do some shopping
Secondary Objective: Do some secret shopping
Reinforcements: Tons and tons, triggered by walking into areas in completely different parts of the map. Theyíre nearly all wyverns, though thereís also one spawnpoint for sets of 4 paladins. Itís all noted on the map.
Turn Limit: 30. After that, you canít get the sidequest either. Is it even possible to take this long though?

I think of this as being one of the gameís biggest maps, but itís really not. Itís average size at best. Which means huge. But for once the hugeness is appropriate. This is a giant battle against most of Bernís army. Which is wyverns. And pretty much nothing else. By my count, you will fight 106 wyverns on this chapter. Hope you like fighting swarms of one unit type for twenty turns in a row!

Anyway, there are basically no non-wyvern enemies. A smattering of weak archers and knights, a couple of bishops with unimpressive gear, and two mamkutes way out of the way. None of the bishops have problematic staves or purge or anything. Nor are there, say, ballistae. Itís a completely straightforward and simple giant battle against nothing but wyverns.

The only complicating factor is how the reinforcements work. Kind of like Cog of Destiny and Victory or Death and a few other maps, theyíre triggered when your units enter certain areas rather than on specific turns. Unlike most of those maps, they poof out of thin air in the middle of the map. They often do so in areas nowhere near the trigger zone too.

And since this is FE6, they appear and move immediately on the enemy turn.

So basically if you donít know all the possible spawnpoints- and what triggers them- you will randomly lose. Itís terrible and stupid, even worse than most of the spawn-moving reinforcements in this game.

If you do know all about them, the map is much better. Iíve color-coded the spawn zones and the trigger zones. As you can see, theyíre usually very distant from each other and thereís no way to guess where they might be from looking at the map. Anyway, every set of reinforcements (except for these sets of 4 paladins in one area) consists of one wyvern lord and a bunch of wyvern riders. Most of them spawn every turn for 3 turns after one of your characters ends his/her turn in one of the trigger zones, though there are a couple of one-time sets.

Oh and for some reason Murdock has a knight crest to steal? Thatís kind of annoying since thieves are absolutely horrible for anything else on this map.

There are also stores with very good inventories near the starting position and the gameís second and final secret shop. It has amazingly good wares: long-ranged tomes and buyable stat-boosters, including boots!




Oh, for no good reason, there are 2 groups of wyverns that poof out of thin air the instant you start the map but are not visible during battle preparations. Just to screw up your plans.




Oh, all those forests you saw are ďWoodsĒ. They're like FE7 thickets, completely impassable even to people like Gonzalez. That makes the map a lot harder to traverse and less interesting than it looks.




And as one last sidenote, they really just arenít trying with this translation anymore.



Units Allowed: 17 + Roy + Yodel. Thatís the most units ever allowed in the game. Itís a pretty good number for this giant battle.
Units Brought:
1) Roy. Useless.
2) Yodel. Surprisingly handy because wyvverns are so weak to magic and he can stand up to an attack or two.
3) Lalum. YeahÖ I never leave her behind.
4) Cath. I need someone to steal the knight crest. There are actually no enemies on the map she can even scratch though.
5) Sophia. Iím not really going to train many people on this chapter because Iím tired of that, but I AM going to get Sophia to level 20.
6) Miledy. You can use her to uselessly talk to Gale, but this serves no purpose at all other than to waste your turn and deny you XP. The important thing is that sheís an extremely powerful flying unit on an air map.
7) Zeiss. Almost as good as Miledy now. I want them to build up their supports too.
8) Tate. Nowhere near as good as Miledy or Zeiss on this chapter since she sucks against wyverns, but sheís still a reasonably powerful flyer.
9) Thany. Like Tate but worse. They have some support to build too.
10) Lilina. My best unit and primary healer. Magic users- especially sages- are tremendously useful here.
11) Hugh. Almost as good as Lilina on offense, much tougher, and also capable of healing.
12) Lugh. Not quite as good as Hugh.
13) Ray. Not quite as good as Lugh.
14) Clarine. More healers are very good on a giant map like this where I need to split up. And wyverns have even less Res than she has Mag, so she can deal decent damage.
15) Gonzales. This is his map. He could solo the whole thing. No one fights wyverns like he does and there are peaks everywhere for him to walk on.
16) Shin. Surprisingly bad. See, the wyvern riders with javelins are almost always in the back of the enemy formations. Which means you canít easily put Shin on the edge of their range with a bow. And iron swords are totally ineffective here. Still, heís got good move and can reliably kill 1 wyvern per turn.
17) Oujay. Gonzales is a bit better than him on this particular chapter, but heís still one of my best units. Especially since he can use axes as well as Durandal.
18) Alan. Making his triumphant return after 6 chapters! Alan is still one of my best offensive fighters when supported. He can use axes or the new Wyrmslayer to fight wyverns very effectively. And his mobility is great.
19) Lance. Like Alan but not as good.
Notable Units Rejected:
1) Merlinus. My storage is at 94 with everyone holding 5 items. Iíd REALLY like to bring him and sell some stuff, but by my count I can juuuuuust collect everything else in the game without selling anything as long as I continue to break weapons along the way. It will be close. I may need to discard a 1 use javelin or something.
2) Anyone else. Theyíre either level 20 or pitiful. Itís not an accident that I have exactly enough good people to fill the team on this chapter.

Gear is VERY important here. You cannot be too prepared. There are literally over 100 wyverns to fight and some other enemies too. That means well over 200 weapon charges will be consumed. You do NOT want to run out of weapons on one of your important characters before the battle is over, so give them piles of stuff.

Just about everyone has 2 silver weapons and 2 javelins/handaxes and possibly a killer weapon too.

All the sages have 3 Aircaliburs (Remember when I bought more than a dozen of them? This chapter is why). They also have Heal staves. So does Ray. There arenít really many dark magic options in this game, so he just has a couple of fluxes and nosferatu (as does Sophia).

Clarine has no Mag and canít use aircalibur, so she just has Fire. And Mend since she canít heal enough otherwise. Plus Physic and the Silver and Member cards to trade to a flyer later.

Shin has a Physic staff for Yodel to take in exchange for Miugre. Plus an iron sword and a bunch of bows.

Cath is just carrying an iron sword and 3 junk items to leave one spot open for the Knight Crest.

Lalum has spare aircaliburs and heal staves and such.

The paladins have silver lances, javelins, handaxes, and wyrmslayers.

Gonzalez has Armads, Oujay has Durandal, Lugh has Forblaze, Miledy has Maltet, and Shin will get Miurgre. No one will ever be able to wield Aureola.

Now just knowing about the zone-triggered reinforcement spawns is not enough to smash this map. To play efficiently you also need to notice two other things. First of all, basically no enemies spawn in the middle of the map. A classic mistake is to commit a bunch of troops there. That will weaken your army greatly since some of your characters will end up uselessly standing around. Instead you should commit roughly half your forces to traveling down the left edge and half to going across the top.

The second point to notice is that the enemy starts with nearly 50 units on the map and some of the nearby spawn zones will try to create 12 or more reinforcements per turn. If you donít thin the herd a lot before moving into the spawn zones, numerous reinforcements will never appear due to the 50 unit cap, so youíll permanently miss out on XP. Furthermore, if you trigger the reinforcements immediately, youíll be running into them at the same time as the waves of standing forces. That can be overwhelming and bog you down while forcing you to use only the strongest units. The best way to go fast AND maximize XP gain is to take it slow at first.

Each of the two group needs to have at least 2 healers, 3 would be better. They also both need tons of strong units. Thany, Sophia, Roy, Cath, and Yodel are basically worthless, which leaves me with 14 good units to divide. I sent 7 each way, mainly keeping support groups together. The details are relatively unimportant beyond that.

The Characters:




Yodel is a serious, respected, and helpful Bishop in the Elimine church. As far as the story is concerned, he might as well be in charge of the whole organization. He uses that power to help Roy quite a lot. He also knows and finds out useful stuff, much more than Niime even. Or the Arcadians. Heís also kind and friendly and has some fairly nice supports, though heís too critical of the unorthodox but highly effective Saul for my taste.


Yodel, not Niime, is the gameís best pre-promoted staff user. Not that thatís saying much. At all. Heís not slowed by his gear, has just enough Con to carry the many tiny party members around, has way more HP than Niime, is actually a heavy duty magic tank, and has comparable magic power while actually starting with an S in staves. Heís not a good character, but heís way more usable. And quite effective on this particular chapter since wyverns canít instant-kill him, canít double him, and crumple before even weak magic attacks.




He also comes with a pretty great set of stuff, some of which he can put to good use. This is actually the one and only Lightning tome the game will ever give you. Recover is of course a very valuable healing staff and is actually somewhat useful in this game since so many healers have terrible Mag. Miurgre (or Maltet if you did the Sacaean route) is a very nice weapon. And Holy Maiden might be best of all. That staff fully heals AND fixes the statuses of every unit on the whole map. Fantastic. And heís all set to use it. Itís also not worth any money and you donít need it unbroken to get the true ending, so don't think twice about using all 3 charges.




Gale may or may not now be an official Wyvern General of Bern. He was going to be given that post years ago, but Narshen weaseled into it instead. Then was going to get it and replace Narshen as a punishment for Narshenís failures, but weíre never really told what happened with regard to that. He seems to be commanding only 4 people and just working as a minor officer under Murdock at this point. Anyway, heís a serious and reasonably clever and honorable person and was Miledyís lover and Zeissís friend.

Despite several rumors, he does not join you under any circumstances. If Miledy and Zeiss talk to him, he leaves the battlefield and his squad just flies around peacefully. But that doesnít help you at all. You might as well just kill him for the XP and not waste valuable turns.


Anyway, heís decently strong but nothing too impressive. Weíve been fighting wyvern lord bosses for ages now and theyíre not a big deal anymore.




Murdock is the allegedly smart, honorable, dutiful, and amazingly strong best general of Bern. For no reason, he was sent to conquer the inconsequential country of Ilia and then did nothing but deliberately sabotage his own country for the rest of the war. Heís stupid, petty, and treacherous but this is never acknowledged in game.


Why the heck does he have 20 Con? Why does no one remark about how absurdly huge the guy is? Anyway, heís just another general. Only slightly more problematic than wyvern bosses at this point.




Just in case you feel like promoting a cavalier during the last 2 real chapters and somehow didnít have too many knight crests already after the one from the village here and the secret shop, Murdock has another to steal. Having to drag Cath along through this whole map to get it is kind of unpleasant.


Playing Through:




This map really deserves a cool and dramatic map theme like Inexorable Fate or one of the many other wonderful FE lategame themes. Instead it has Beneath a New Light:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0N6UCet_hk&index=13&list=PLwvweEKnS3AHZ4pYIYqzKdBKGFxnZNsNQ

While this is one of the better map tracks in the game, itís completely lacking in weight, seriousness, and awesomeness and feels totally inappropriate for this giant battle and turning point of the war. It would have been much better earlier in the story.




Iíve got to thin the herd before I step into any spawn zones, or Iíll forever miss out on XP.




The right team moves in, with Gonzales ready to do most of the work.




The air team moves in. Miledy and Zeiss will ultimately go right and Tate and Thany will go left.

However, they might first make a quick strike on the middle units depending on how those move. And theyíll certainly pick up the village.




Yodel trades Miurgre for a physic to use.




And the left team is in position.




Gonzales is in his element. Note that if he was on a peak, this wyvern lord would have a -11% chance to hit. Gonzales can solo this whole chapter.




Turn 2. I must not enter or cross the horizontal line marked by the cursor. That restriction will make fighting these newcomers hard.




And I must not enter or cross this vertical line. Thatís easier.




In the middle, the archers were not very obliging, so I give up on an air strike on them. Instead Miledy waits with Maltet to take down the bulk of this wyvern wave.




On the right, Ray and Lugh get to work. You can see that Ray is just not that effective due to his poor accuracy and defenses.




Lugh canít quite manage instant kills, but heís darned close.




The sage is blocked out, so everyone is safe as the enemy continues to advance.




Clarine gets a bad level.




Sophia finishes off the sage and gets a worse one.




Sophia was pulled back and I set my group up to deal with the incoming enemies (the left archer has a longbow unfortunately, so I canít do much about him).




Miledy gets a crit with Malte.




And is so close to instant-killing this wyvern lord.




Gonzalez gets another in a string of recent bad levels.




Turn 3, the right side gets healing as the dwindling supply of wyverns keeps up the attack.




Well thatís pretty bad too.




The right group is having no problems.




The left group is struggling because they canít advance any further south to keep up the attack.




The weakness of javelins lets Lance injure this person for Sophia.




She had to fire from counterable range, but luckily longbows are heavy, so she couldnít quite be doubled if she missed.




Then sheís pulled back to safety.




What about the middle group? They still canít safely attack.




I decided to just have them split up and join the side armies. Miledy stops at the village. Somehow this Bťarnaise wyvern rider of the royal guard serving with a Lycian army is mistaken for an Etrurian.




The people are afraid of usÖ so they give us amazingly valuable presents. Same as when they like us. Or are indifferent to us.

Come to think of it, I donít think this game claimed that the location of the Shrine of Seals is secret. That makes WAY more sense than the FE7 version. I mean, there are villages all around it and several armies have fought pitched battles there.




So the flyers split up and are ready for action next turn.




Alan gets a bad level.




Miledy gets a worse one. At least she has an excuse.




Hugh is really bad at fighting magic users.




He sees the problem and sets about fixing it.




Ok! Hereís the most interesting turn. I need to crush ALL of these enemies and do it while moving Hugh full south. And he needs healing, so Lilina can't fight either.




Itís super-effective!




Itís like using Bombers against A-Airs in advance wars.




And another one down.




Killing the bishop clears Hughís path.




So Hugh sets off with a heal while the paladins try to finish the survivors.




Sophia gets her first good level from the wyvern Yodel weakened for her.




Alright, I couldnít kill every single one but this is good enough.




Hugh is now in range of this whole group. Thatís important, because Iím triggering both of the biggest spawns on the map at once. I need to wipe out most standing forces right now, before those arrive.




Zeiss gets a kill. Itís unfortunate that Miledy canít carry him. Stupid 20Ė Con instead of 25Ė Con rescue limits for womenÖ




Cath moves to trigger the other big reinforcement group.




Iíve wiped out nearly all of the standing army, so itís most efficient to fight the maximum number of reinforcements at once as possible.




Bam, giant army out of nowhere. And this is only a third or so of all the spawns.




Another 2 armies spawn together over there. And there are yet others.




I decided to just send in Gonzalez. He can reliably tank the whole lot. Other people can aggro and kill the survivors.




Oh and another group is coming in over the center, but should veer left.




Oujay saves this wyvern for someone else, but moves into position with a Halberd to kill the approaching paladins.




Hugh is dropped to intercept the group coming from the middle area.




Sophia doesnít take this attack of course. I just want to point out that at level 16 or so she can neither accurately hit nor double knights. Nor could she if her speed was average. Look on these combat stats, ye Sophia fans, and despair.




I eventually end up in this safe, if disorderly formation.




Thatís a bad level, but she already capped the good stuff.




Lugh does better.




As does Gonzalez. Def is always welcome.




Honestly, most of this chapter is just people leveling up and wyverns dying.




Gonzalez cleared the whole wave that was present last turn and part of the new one.




I have enough scattered injured guys that I decided to burn a Holy Maiden to make sure there was no chance of defeat.




Operation: Kill Paladins with Oujayís Halberd was a failure. This one wyvern stepped in the way, got an incredibly lucky dodge, and thus blocked all the paladins from actually getting next to Oujay. Now I have a dangerous number of enemies to deal with.




Nothing for it but to get to work. I think I see a way to chokepoint most of the southern group. Shin gets a good level.




Not bad.




This is a fairly hard defensive position, but those are some fierce enemies. This was the best arrangement I could get.




Over on the right, the enemy is thinned just the right amount to start moving in.




Decent. Heís well ahead on speed and thatís nice and all, but heís not doing so great in the other stats- and he always caps speed and Str regardless.




Better. This fellow could use more Def.




As of this turnís beginning, the main reinforcements are done with.




The right side is already nearly cleared.




But the left side is in some trouble.




WellÖ def is nice.




Shin is great at killing 1 wyvern lord per turn.




The pegasi take out the nearby wyvern threat.




Durandal kills a paladin with Durandal and gets an excellent level.




Lance gets a bad one.




And a wall of sorts is set up. This should be the last tough turn.




Unfortunately, I canít avoid people attacking Lilina and she gets an empty level. I really want to have her fight less.




This pesky wyvern survives a crit from Tate.




A LOT of attacking for a unit I didnít want to use in battle.




Tate gets a wonderful level.




The last right side lord drops.




Thatís a pretty bad level, though I guess Lugh likes that stat pretty well.




Clarine keeps being Clarine.




Zeiss stops just out of Bolting range.




Whoo! Hugh and his Def. Youíre making Canas proud!




The rest still have some light fighting to do. The trouble is, theyíre kind of out of range of the enemy and canít attack effectively.




And itís slow going because I canít advance the fragile people.




Iím always working to give Sophia kills.




And sheís always getting bad levels.




I use rescues to get over the peaks.




Oujay breaks out Durandal to secure a kill for sure.




The map is nearly cleared. There are a few more reinforcements coming, but not many.




Miledy and Zeiss move into the reinforcement zone, which is also the Bolting zone. Time to start using up his ammo.




Gonzalez gets ready. Reinforcements are coming up there.




On the other side, everyone is dropped and packed in. Reinforcements will be coming from the south.




Screw you, man!




Miledy takes out the right mamkute.




Another Str and speed level for Gonzalez. On anyone else it would be great.




Hugh was lying in wait for Gale and takes him out immediately.




Give me your XP and shut up.




Gale gives Hugh a truly excellent level.




Gonzalez stands alone and untouched, soloing wave after wave.




Miledy supports Zeiss for the second time. Their supports are pretty lame. She also takes the silver and member cards that Clarine had given to Zeiss.




The left group works on the enemy.




Alan gets a bad level.




Sophia gets a good one.




Nearly clear.




Turns out the Bolting sage doesnít move, so this is his true range.




Knowing that, Lugh clears a wyvern.




Now how to give one of these to Sophia without anyone ending up in range of the next wave?




Shin gets a great level from one.




Theyíre cleared with some units to spare.




This one wyvern has flown away for some reason. Thereís nowhere to heal on the mapÖ




There we go! Def. I love Def.




Pretty good level, though heís getting close to his caps.




There will be no more spawns.




No more Bolting.




What to do here?




I did an impromptu rescue chain and got Roy dropped all the way over here.




The path is cleared and I got a lot of other people moving in.




Sophia gets her final level from this last wave. Sheís terrible to the very end.




Miledy visits the secret shop.




You can buy any stat-booster. But I pledged not to buy any of them at the beginning. I will pick up a few Boltings though. Probably wonít use them, but I do have enough sages to consider it.




Whoo! Thatís about as good as it gets for this guy.




Gonzales clears the last one.




I canít attack Murdock well, but I crowd everyone in as best I can for now.




He recognizes Zeiss but attacks anyway.




Next turn, Cath steals the Knight Crest.




Lugh and Lilina trade around Forblaze to attack since nothing else can really scratch him.




Ray finishes him.




Not bad I guess, heís got a serious accuracy problem.




Gonzalez was in the lead in every fight, downing dozens of wyverns, and came through completely unharmed.




Turn 15 win.




I smell a sidequest!




Ö

Come on, man. Youíve had MONTHS to learn about the Divine Weapons since you learned of their importance and you still donít even know the basics of their number or location?


Total Restarts: 16 (None here)
Turn Surplus: +63 (I scored fifteen turns here!)
Things I Regret Missing: A couple of uses of Marcusís silver lance on Rude, a Chapter 5 nomad Marcus had to kill, two Chapter 12 fighters I couldnít kill since I needed supports built elsewhere, a pirate and a wyvern rider on 14x who I didnít have time to go after, 2 enemies in a room I didnít have time to kill on chapter 20x.
Legendary Weapon Scoreboard: Durandal slew Ohtz using Oujay on chapter 14x, turn 2; and the top left mamkute using Oujay on chapter 16, turn 9; and Arcard using Oujay on chapter 17, turn 16; and a bottom left paladin using Oujay on chapter 21, turn 7; and a bottom left wyvern rider using Oujay on chapter 21, turn 9. Armads slew Teck using Gonzalez on chapter 20x, turn 10. Forblaze slew the top right mamkute using Lugh on chapter 16, turn 6. Forblaze slew the left section hero using Lugh on chapter 20, turn 2. Forblaze slew the purge bishop using Lugh on chapter 20, turn 5. Maltet slew a middle area wyvern rider using Miledy on chapter 21, turn 2; and a middle area wyvern lord using Miledy on chapter 21, turn 2; and the right mamkute using Miledy on chapter 21, turn 10.

Melth fucked around with this message at 23:01 on Aug 25, 2015

Edward_Tohr
Aug 11, 2012

In lieu of meaningful text, I'm just going to mention I've been exploding all day and now it hurts to breathe, so I'm sure you all understand.


Melth posted:



Sophia gets her final level from this last wave. Sheís terrible to the very end.


:stare:

Level 20 Sophia is only very slightly better than Canas is the instant he loving joins.

Jesus.

Cake Attack
Mar 26, 2010



tbf his sophia is pretty below average where it counts - she's like 5 points down in magic, around 3 in def and 1 in speed

Keldulas
Mar 18, 2009


While true, it's been hilariously pain-staking just how much he had to work to get Sophia those kills. Way too effort for a character that ends up subpar to pretty much any anima mage in this game. Hell, CLARINE fights better than Sophia does.

Manatee Cannon
Aug 26, 2010





Well of course she does; Clarine's promoted, has a horse, and over twice Sophia's speed

this Sophia's really bad and she's not great even on average, but you do gotta keep averages in mind when comparing people

The Iron Rose
May 12, 2012

:minnie: Cat Army :minnie:


Manatee Cannon posted:

Well of course she does; Clarine's promoted, has a horse, and over twice Sophia's speed

this Sophia's really bad and she's not great even on average, but you do gotta keep averages in mind when comparing people

Sophia would be a decent unit if, having the same growths, she had those level 20 stats at level 5.

Manatee Cannon
Aug 26, 2010





Her base stats suck, it's true

Insurrectionist
May 21, 2007


As I mentioned I had Sophia solo this map for me just because I could.

Then I reset and did it the real way because that was way too much wasted XP and Nosferatu tomes for me.

The samey unit-composition and reinforcements on this map, combined with the lack of enemies in the middle, really makes for a surprisingly boring experience overall. The only 'excitement' is figuring out how not to leave anyone vulnerable to getting zerged down by the left-side spawns while simultaneously picking them off at a decent pace to not get overwhelmed.

Melth
Feb 16, 2015

Victory and/or death!


Insurrectionist posted:


The samey unit-composition and reinforcements on this map, combined with the lack of enemies in the middle, really makes for a surprisingly boring experience overall.

True, but it's still more exciting than usual. You could be forced to restart at any time by reinforcements that come out of nowhere on unclear timing at unpredictable points on the map unless you look up a guide on exactly where every reinforcement comes from! Can't you just smell the fun?

fade5
May 31, 2012

by exmarx


Melth posted:


You can buy any stat-booster. But I pledged not to buy any of them at the beginning. I will pick up a few Boltings though. Probably wonít use them, but I do have enough sages to consider it.
I've always found it weird that FE6 was the only GBA game that had the really fun stuff available/buyable in a Secret Shop. Promotion items in FE6 are actually useful to buy since the game is kinda stingy with them otherwise, you can get Angelic Robes in the Ch 16 Shop and then all the stat boosters and Siege tomes here. And there are no secret shop Physic staves because you can just straight-up get those in non-hidden shops.

By comparison, Physic is basically the best thing the secret shops in FE7 and FE8 sell. Otherwise it's just promotion items, Killer Weapons (okay), Barrier/Unlock (okay/meh), Blade weapons (meh), and effective weapons, which are loving useless in FE7. You can get stat boosters in FE8's Creature Campaign, but that's only after the game is over. Half the time I never even bother with FE7 and FE8's secret shops except for buying some Physic Staves, whereas in FE6 it's always a really high priority.

And I would hope you'll use those Boltings, I mean you have the Bolting goddess available at full power:

Seriously, a speed-blessed Lilina is a thing of beauty to see.:allears:

On a last note, I've never understood why Serenes seems to dislike Gonzales. I mean holy poo poo Illa and this map are basically made for him, and even with the disturbing number of one and two-stat levels he's pulled he's still insanely loving overpowered (as Melth took care to note:v:).

E: Say Melth, any chance of an update on how you're doing for S-rank requirements? By this point you've got to be ahead if not hilariously ahead on all of them.

fade5 fucked around with this message at 22:44 on Jun 23, 2015

Melth
Feb 16, 2015

Victory and/or death!


fade5 posted:

I've always found it weird that FE6 was the only GBA game that had the really fun stuff available/buyable in a Secret Shop. Promotion items in FE6 are actually useful to buy since the game is kinda stingy with them otherwise, you can get Angelic Robes in the Ch 16 Shop and then all the stat boosters and Siege tomes here. And there are no secret shop Physic staves because you can just straight-up get those in non-hidden shops.

By comparison, Physic is basically the best thing the secret shops in FE7 and FE8 sell. Otherwise it's just promotion items, Killer Weapons (okay), Barrier/Unlock (okay/meh), Blade weapons (meh), and effective weapons, which are loving useless in FE7. You can get stat boosters in FE8's Creature Campaign, but that's only after the game is over. Half the time I never even bother with FE7 and FE8's secret shops except for buying some Physic Staves, whereas in FE6 it's always a really high priority.


I actually like the contents of 7's secret shops better. Ok, fine, stat boosters can completely break the game, but that's not much fun. In FE6, promotion items and stat boosters are basically all you can buy. Plus Bolting on this chapter.

7 has both more interesting AND numerous secret shops.

To go over some great buys: Buyable chest keys are an amazingly fun toy and almost a must for max ranking! You can just buy those in any shop in FE6, which is kind of lame, but in FE7 they're extremely limited outside the secret shop. Early killer weapons are nice toys too, and you should DEFINITELY snatch up an early physic or two. Being able to buy enough super-effective weapons for more people is great and I definitely picked up some of those. For a lot of purposes, they're actually just as strong as their FE6 counterparts, which I went over before. Furthermore, Barrier is nice to have spares of and that + torch provides some ways to staff-grind if you want.

And all of that stuff is available well before the end of the game. The last few secret shops that only offer promotion items are the boring ones.

I'll concede that FE8 secret shops weren't really very cool (other than Barrier and Physic) before you beat the game though.



fade5 posted:


E: Say Melth, any chance of an update on how you're doing for S-rank requirements? By this point you've got to be ahead if not hilariously ahead on all of them.

Ah, I had figured people were probably bored of those and wasn't planning on doing another. Maybe I'll do one after 21x, not sure. The end of the game is coming soon, so you'll see how ahead I am then if not before.

Oh, and I'm moving, so it'll be a few days before I continue.

Melth
Feb 16, 2015

Victory and/or death!


Back by popular demand, it's a status update on the rankings! This isn't really a particularly good time for one, but the end of the game is coming in just a few chapters. And I'm moving, so I don't have time to do a real update for a few days.


Survival remains unfailable. Power remains exactly the same thing as XP.

Combat has only been further solidified at the 5 star level since the last update. The enemy power level stopped growing noticeably 8 chapters ago but my characters have become very high level and can now easily one-round them en masse.


So the real ranking categories:

In tactics I currently have 63 turns to spare, and that's only going to go up. I'm going to try to break 100, which will be a little tricky since there's not many chapters left.


What about XP? This time my chart will list both the current requirement and the one I need to reach by the very end:




My surplus has actually nearly doubled since my last update. In fact, I have a bigger surplus relative to the endgame requirements now than I did relative to the current ones after 16x. I doubt I can hit a 20k surplus relative to the endgame requirements since I'm nearly out of low-level people and free XP like unpromoted staff users and Lalum and thieves, but I'm going to try.




My current surplus level has basically not changed since the 16x update, despite stealing every available item and getting all the loot. That's probably because I've started using expensive weapons whenever I want and promoted tons of people (nearly 20 in total). There's no one left I want to promote though, so I should start doing a bit better. Not that I really need to because I'm already well over the intended endgame funds requirement (and 100,000 over the actual endgame funds requirement).


So anyway, I've already completed every requirement and basically cannot lose at this point. It's just a matter of winning by as much as I can.

Melth fucked around with this message at 19:54 on Aug 26, 2015

fade5
May 31, 2012

by exmarx


Melth posted:

To go over some great buys: Buyable chest keys are an amazingly fun toy and almost a must for max ranking! You can just buy those in any shop in FE6, which is kind of lame, but in FE7 they're extremely limited outside the secret shop. Early killer weapons are nice toys too, and you should DEFINITELY snatch up an early physic or two.

The last few secret shops that only offer promotion items are the boring ones. I'll concede that FE8 secret shops weren't really very cool (other than Barrier and Physic) before you beat the game though.
Ah, I see the disconnect now. To me Chest Keys/Torch Staffs/Barrier Staffs are just nice utility items rather than "fun" items. They're useful in speeding up existing strategies or getting Staff ranks faster, but they don't let you go full-on insanity. What I mean by that having the ability to pull off a completely off-the-wall strategy like a Bolting Snipe (or multiple snipes), or your giant Rescue chain, or (say) Warping Gonzales into the middle of a map, or Berserking/Sleeping/Silencing a problem enemy, or giving Lilina 3 Angelic Robes and turning her into a hilarious tank, or giving Roy 15 move so he can cross a map in 3 turns.

To me, those kinds off-the-wall things are the really "fun" parts of Fire Emblem, and the more crazy toys you have access to, the greater the insanity you can come up with. It's me, I'm the guy who buys 7 Mire tomes in Awakening from Spotpass as soon as I have a Dark Mage who can use them.:v:

And yeah, the later FE7 Secret Shops were the main ones I was thinking of. Oh boy, buyable promotion items 6 Chapters after everyone's already promoted, hold me back.:rolleyes:

Melth posted:

So anyway, I've already completed every requirement and basically cannot lose at this point. It's just a matter of winning by as much as I can.
Overachiever.:golfclap: Seriously though, nice work, and also good luck on your move.

fade5 fucked around with this message at 19:27 on Jun 24, 2015

Melth
Feb 16, 2015

Victory and/or death!




The last sidequest! And the last fog of war chapter! Good riddance to both!

This is a bad chapter. They really should have done better on as momentous an occasion as the final sidequest. But instead of anything cool, we got a pile of luck-based traps, time-wasting walls and water to pad things out, and yet another enormous map with nearly nothing on it. Disappointing.


Chapter Summary:
Roy dungeon crawls through the area below the Shrine of Seals and retrieves yet another legendary weapon. Then he finally claims the Sword of Seals and becomes slightly less terrible. And also sees a weird vision that never really pays off in any way.




Pereth and his group were late to the party because I finished the last chapter in time. If only Murdock hadnít procrastinated until the last second, they could have destroyed this legendary weapon months or years ago.




Kind of like in Arcadia- with a guy this one is just a palette swap of- it would have made waaaaay more sense to have Perethís group just fight alongside Murdockís. They might have actually been able to beat us then, thus obviating the need to frantically try to destroy the tome outright. Or, in this case, better yet they could have destroyed it before the game even began.




One of the natives is consulted.




And knows something! Rumors are always true in videogames.




Yeah. Obviously. And we should know which one by process of elimination. As if it wasnít bad enough that Roy mysteriously knows nothing about anything half the time, Elphin sometimes is totally ignorant too. Iím entirely unsure what the writers thought would be gained by having the characters sit around talking about how they donít know what the divine weapon is this time before each chapter.




Itís like a clue that you might actually need them. But not quite. Let alone any kind of indication that you canít unlock the true ending without them. The worst part though is that itís too late. You already HAVE the final sidequest and cannot avoid getting this weapon by the time you see this message. He should have said this kind of thing on 8x or something.




Wonderful. Get out your d20s, itís time for an old-fashioned dungeon crawl.




Roll up a rogue. Yeah, this advice is worthless. Or less than worthless even, as I'll soon explain.


Battle Preparations & the Map:


Ever read one of the old D&D adventure modules from when everyone was a terrible GM? Back when fantasy worlds were apparently full of enormous, sealed underground complexes full of implausible traps in ludicrous locations and monsters that look like treasure chests?

Meet the Fire Emblem version.



Secondary Objective: Get the elixirs from 50% of the chests
Reinforcements: None.
Turn Limit: 20. This is more or less impossible if youíre just walking along the course set out for you. Fortunately, itís late enough in the game that thatís not the only option.

A long time ago, when writing about chapter 8 of this game, I commented that the map was so enormous and the hallways so twisted that it would take Roy 19 turns to get to the throne if there were no enemies at all. I said I didnít think there was a bigger map in the whole series. I was wrong.

By my count, Roy would need twenty-one turns to walk from start to throne with no enemies (and no traps). And when he had done all that, he would still only have covered half the map. 8 at least had stuff going on. Real treasure to acquire, characters to recruit, Lilina to protect, etc. This one is just a mostly linear slog through mediocre enemies in fog of war. And as usual for this game, the enemies are really spread out and not concentrated enough anywhere to present a real challenge.

So this is another generic, lousy FE6 map. Maybe slightly worse than usual. Plus fog of war of course.




Fog doesnít actually affect things much. Everyone has +5 vision over normal on this chapter. Still, it DOES mean you donít know about that perfect Mag Silence druid when deploying.

Iíve realized I was wrong about some of my earlier comments about how Fog of War works in this game. Back on chapter 9 I thought every unit just had 5 base vision instead of FE7ís much more restrictive 3. But actually it looks like the amount of vision varies wildly from character to character and from chapter to chapter for some reason. You always do have better vision than in FE7 though, which makes Fog easier to deal with (and more pointless).

But enemies hidden in Fog of War are really not the biggest source of unpleasant surprises in this chapter.




There is no indication that any of the squares in this long hallway (or the mirror image one on the right) are unusual, but actually itís a minefield. Step onto half of the squares and your units take 10 damage. This only happens once. Honestly, the game might as well just flip a coin and give you 10 damage if it comes up heads whenever you move. This is not an acceptable mechanic for a strategy game.

If a thief steps onto one of the traps, I believe itís disarmed (This also happens with lava traps in FE8 as I recall). But since thereís no way to know which squares are trapped and the traps are single-use anyway, this is completely worthless. If you tried it, you would have to slow your entire army to a complete crawl.




Thereís no more indication of where the minefield ends than where it begins, but it turns out to be just that one hallway. Then when you think youíre safe, suddenly there are spikes that stick out of the walls when you end in certain squares. ItísÖ basically the same as mines except always next to a wall at least. Oh and the damage is 10-Def or something instead of a flat 10. Yet another trap thatís purely luck-based on your first play and that doesnít actually make much difference.

Pretty much no one takes any damage at all from these, which is conclusive proof that the development team didnít actually do much thinking about what they were doing. Iím not sure if thieves can disarm these or not, or if theyíre single-use or not. Doesnít really matter at all. This trap is harmless, just another point of bad map design.




All of that was just to make you lower your guard for the most brutal and stupid trap in the entire series. 50% of the treasure chests on this map (determined randomly every time, no less!) inexplicably contain mamkutes. Yeah. There are dragons stuffed into the treasure chests just waiting for you to open them so they can walk out and attack. Oh and opening the chest with a thief does NOT help. All it does is guarantee that you have a unit in range who will be instant-killed.

It is completely reasonable to step on your cartridge or delete your emulator file and never play this game again when you see this. Actually, we passed that point a long time ago. Chapter 11 probably.


http://www.fireemblemwod.com/fe6/guiafe6/cap21x.htm

As usual, the folks at FireEmblemWoD have a de-fogged picture of the map which even notes all the trap spots if youíre interested in that.



Units Allowed: 9 + Roy. Very few considering you must do at minimum 2 groups. Itís much, much harder when one attempts 3. This is another reason that bringing along thieves to disarm traps is not viable.
Units Brought:
1) Roy. Last chapter was his nadir. This chapter heís still awful but at least not every enemy is a lance-toting wyvern rider. And itís all going to get better from here.
2) Lalum. Always great even though sheís max level now. Sheís going to be essential for some tricky maneuvers Iím doing this time, plus sheís always good for training weak people.
3) Niime. Actually, come to think of it, Niime is here by mistake. Sheís an artifact from an earlier version of this strategy where she still wasnít very useful. All I really needed was a staff user with 12 or more Mag, which is absolutely everyone except Clarine. I only brought Niime because the others are level 20. With this current strategy. Clarine would have worked much better. Oops.
4) Lilina. A real staff user. Iíd love to finish staff-grinding her up to an A rank here, but the map is really not conducive to that since I need to spread out and move fast. And sheís also problematic since sheís just too powerful. Except for the very toughest units (like high level generals) she ORKOs everything in the game even with Fire. Which means I canít use her to feed any of the low-level guys.
5) Dorothy. One of the low-level guys in question. Nearly everyone else is level 20 or close to it. Of those that remain, Dorothy is the lowest level and also the most usable at this point due to her ridiculous Str gains.
6) Noah. Actually harder to train than Dorothy now because of his awful previous levels. He canít scratch a lot of these enemies even with a killing edge (the best weapon he can equip). Bringing him and Dorothy is of course unnecessary and just a way of trying to make things interesting.
7) Miledy. My best air unit. The strategy Iím going to employ for this map requires every air unit I can bring (except Yuno, who totally doesnít count).
8) Zeiss. Almost as good as Miledy at much lower level.
9) Tate. Not as good as the wyvern riders, but still quite strong.
10) Thany. Ugh. Yeah, she just kind of has to be here and will be mostly a liability on this chapter.
Notable Units Rejected:
1) Cath. WAY too weak. The enemies here are pretty elite. Plus I donít need her vision since everyone else sees really far. And I have more than enough chest keys to open all these boxes, thereís nothing to steal, and disabling traps is completely worthless.
2) Yuno. Iím not that desperate.
3) Ellen & Saul. Both could totally do Niimeís job despite being unpromoted, but theyíre at the level cap.
4) Clarine. Oops. In my first strategy, Clarine had 1 less point of Mag than necessary for a trick I wanted to do so I switched her for Niime. In my second strategy, Clarine would have been way better than Niime but I didnít remember to switch her back in. Oh well.
5) Gonzalez. Would have been both very good and very handy for what Iím going to do, but heís too high level and would crowd out either someone more important or one of the newbs Iím trying to train.
6) Hugh & Lugh. Crowded out by Lilina because she can use Hammerne and they canít.
7) Most other people. Either theyíre level 20 or theyíre not even worth considering because they canít cross lakes (Note that the water is all lakes, not rivers or seas or anything else easy to cross).

Now with my strategy there will be an initial 3-way party split. And then I may end up with as many as 5 groups by the end. This means I need to be sure every group is as self-sufficient as possible.

Healing is going to be scarce since I need to split up a lot, so nearly everyone has a vulnerary too. Elixirs are tempting and would help, but I think I can scrape by without them.

This is the last fog chapter, so thereís no reason to conserve torches. I brought out all the ones I have left and distributed them around. Chest keys too.

Tate will be going with only Roy into a very dangerous area and will need to fight some Mamkutes as well as snipers and more. Consequently sheís taking Maltet and the Delphi Shield.

Niime has Warp and an assortment of staves. Lilina has Hammerne and also Forblaze for any dragons she runs into.

Everyone else pretty much has a mix of silver weapons, javelins and handaxes, and really weak weapons like slim swords that should hopefully be able to just barely leave enemies alive for other people to finish.


The Characters:




Another fairly generic Bern officer with no background and no future. Pereth does show a very strong loyalty to Murdock and is disappointed not to have been able to die alongside him. That might be interesting if we hadnít already seen some characters like that and werenít about to see more.


Heís actually weaker than some of the generic druids on his map. In particular, he has less Mag and is using Nosferatu instead of Fenrir. Now Nosferatu is better overall, but Fenrir hits HARD. If you can beat his many underling druids, you can beat him.


Playing Through:




Alright, the first turn is going to be pretty cool. Lilina starts things off by using Hammerne on the Warp staff. This is one of the best things to use Hammerne on in every FE game that has both. Warp is hugely expensive and amazingly valuable. Way more so than any lame legendary weapon.




Dorothy then picks up Lilina so that Niime can Warp them both across the lake at once. Note that even 0 Mag would be sufficient for this purpose, so once again Niimeís only strength is not actually helpful.




Then Noah and a wyvern drop Niime across the river. It may not be obvious at first, but this is a VERY important move. Itís only the use of Noah that allows me to drop Niime immediately instead of next turn and to bring the wyvern back to rescue someone else. Thatís key.




The wyvern moves to where it can be danced for.




Tate picks up Roy, whoíll be her partner for most of this map.




And they fly over there, out of the way.




Lalum dances for the wyvern who will now carry her across the river.




Sheís powerful to have ready, so Thany takes and drops her immediately.




Zeiss trades with Niime and takes away all of her staves. As Omni helpfully pointed out months ago, it turns out that enemy Silence staff users do not target people with no staves in this game. Weird but true.




Anyway, he then picks up Noah (precise positioning was critical every step of this turn) and then moves so that Niime can take back her staves and then warp Tate at the same time next turn.

Bam! I got 10 units across the river in one turn with only 4 flyers, and I even got a bunch of them unloaded and ready to fight.

Why did I do this? Well for one thing, it saves a ton of time. Most of the enemies from the southern parts of the path will now come charging up this way, which saves me a lot of walking, but doubles the number of units I have to fight at once. For another, itís a good stepping stone to the center area for Tate and Roy.

The disadvantage is that this is going to be a much harder fight and my forces are going to be split up more ways more quickly. Plus for one turn I have my pants down with most of my best units either carrying someone else or being carried.




So this will be a tense turnÖ




And I need to make it even worse by spending Niimeís turn to send Tate and Roy elsewhere. She takes back her staves.




She warps Tate and Roy in.




Well, thatís a lousy final level. About average for her. I may have mentioned before that sheís terrible.




Tate drops Roy and gets ready to fight. Itís going to be a tough few turns.




Alright, I had to pull in one of the right group wyverns, but the left side is now stabilized.




Dorothy drops Lilina and Lalum dances for her. Lilina is the most powerful piece I have available, and I need to get her into play immediately even if Iíd rather not have her OHKOing some of these enemies.




A little weak, but she capped most of the good stuff already. And with that, every group is safe.




Unimpressive.




Niime is silenced, but thatís alright now.




Things are not going so great in the top front, so Tate switches sides and breaks out Maltet to secure the instant kill.




Roy switches her back to a javelin for the remaining sniper and druid while getting into the safe space below her.




Noah canít scratch the general, so Zeiss and Miledy take it down. Each of them now has a javelin out, which means one of the mercenaries should survive for Noah.




Sweet! Iím particularly glad to have that Def since heíll cap the left side sooner or later.




Not much to do but move in and wait.




I believe this marks the true edge of the druidís enormous silence range since he doesnít move. I canít let Lilina get silenced yet, so sheís out of there.




Here is safe. She lights a torch.




Everyone gets in position to start killing.




Lilina gets in a heal.




Now where to go? Thany is no match for one of those heroes, so Lilina has to deal with them. Thereís enough guys back there that Iíd like to go back and fight them instead of letting them come in behind me, but I donít want to spend the time.




On the left, Noah is all ready to get a kill while the others keep fighting.




Huh. Thatís actually a good level.




Thereís no choice but to have Roy finish a druid off. He then takes like 2 damage from a spike trap. No one cares.




The other druid bites the dust and now things are stable. A sniper is bad, but a druid with 29 Mag and Fenrir is an instant kill on Roy and not much less on Tate if it hits.




Miledy gets a very good level as enemies come out of the fog.




Lilina gets silenced. Itís annoying, but unavoidable. If the center fight had gone more smoothly I would have been able to kill the silence druid this turn and prevent this, but oh well.




So next turn the center is under control with this kill.




This hero is my next big foe and heís a piece of work with his high stats and brave sword, but I have all the time I need to prepare.




Dorothy pulls out her killer bow and drops a knight THany had weakened twice. This side is now in crisis. Lilina canít fight, Thany is no match for several of the enemies, and 50% of my troops need to be protected from two sides.




The left side has it easier. Only the snipers can threaten the wyverns. Noah canít scratch many things though.




Tate chugs a vulnerary and I take a risk. She can now survive both hits from the heroís brave sword and she can kill the druid with Maltet, but if the druid is lucky enough to hit then she will die.




On the left side, I begin wandering into the minefield. You pretty much have to just ignore it since youíll need to stop on some mined squares to fight effectively.




They make a tactical retreat to make sure only the ideal units are attacked by the sniper and hero.




Thany heals herself and prepares for more action.




My Dorothy continues to be my Dorothy as she kills the knight.




Zeiss pulls down a pretty good level. Heís getting close to his caps.




Maltet kills the Silence druid and Tate gets a solid level.




Next turn she finishes the hero.




The last left sniper bites the dust and now the hero is blocked from helping the mercenary.




Noah snags the kill.




And Niime gets healing.




Thany chugs two vulneraries in one turn thanks to Lalum as I keep up my fighting retreat. Iím now up against the wall because of that hugely powerful general. Fortunately Iíve bought enough time and Lilina will fairly soon be un-silenced.




I was all ready to kill a mamkute and itís almost disappointing to get an Elixir instead.




Well instead of a dragon, sheíll just fight a shaman I guess.




The right group is able to drop the sniper.




And then they wall up. Not much longer!




The left group just moves up.




Beautiful! Alright, right group enemies, your turns are numbered


!

Roy tries the next chest.




A wild mamkute appears! These are the strongest ones yet.




I made sure not to move the left group before finding the chest contents so that I could do this if there was a dragon.




So Tate takes down the Mamkute with the only weapon that can do it.




Only Str, but honestly thatís not so bad. She could use more.




Well with the physicing done, Miledy and Zeiss carry Niime up and drop her off safely.




This is what Thany has been dealing with. Heroes are hardcore. But I think I can give this one to Dorothy with Lalum helping Thany.




Ooh, nice.




Dorothy. Well she hit! Nothing is more disappointing than concocting a careful plan to feed a kill to someone weak and then having them miss.




Roy takes a nuisance poke as he moves up.




Lilina really gets to work, tearing this general apart. Iíve decided to have Lalum and Lilina go top to deal with the highest def enemies while Thany and Dorothy try to kill the remaining southern ones.




Thereís not many left, but thereís one unseen hero and even a mercenary is tough for Thany and Dorothy.




Noah is trying to be Dorothy.




Not much left over here.




Solid.




These druids are well positioned to support each other. Even with healing from Niime, Tate will not be able to kill them easily.







Pereth attacks. That line would make more sense if he was wielding Apocalypse.




Thany prepares the way.




Iím going to be properly ready before opening that chest.




Tate moves to deal with the next druid and Roy comes into throne range.




Darn, that was kind of anti-climactic.




These guys get a mamkute though.




Zeiss and Niime take it down immediately.




MIledy is ready with an iron sword.




This will be a tricky business; that hero is bearing down on us.




Nice, nice.




And then Thany pulls her to safety.




The last right side guy is cleared.




This fellow will be an easy kill for Noah.




Pretty bad, but who cares at this point?




To counteract Nosferatu, Tate just moves next to him instead of attacking.




Thany drops Dorothy off and then returns.




Good!




Another Elixir. No chance to use Forblaze afterall.




Another mamkute.




Nice! Zeiss has been gaining some sweet Def this chapter.




Dorothy is ready for action.




Maltet finishes Pereth off.




And Dorothy kills the last right side enemy on the next turn.




Noah kills the archer.




This actually doesnít wipe out the enemy. Thereís this one straggler over here who apparently doesnít move. Whatever, Iím not wasting another turn just to kill him (Thany canít double)




Turn 15 win.




By process of elimination, there is only one possibilityÖ




Duh.




It never occurred to me until this playthrough that seeing Bramimond in FE7 was probably meant to be a pretty serious reveal for fans of FE6 whoíd been wondering what the truth about him is since this conversation.




How WAS this forgotten though? I mean Athos knew the whole truth, the other legends must have known at least most of it, and they all went on to be the heads of countries.




ďAnd why theyíre usually an annoying gimmick that adds nothing interesting to the battle.Ē




Too late! But yeah, there actually isnít a reason anymore, it was all pointless.




Alright, Iíve got the last legendary weapon!




At long last!




Merlinus, why were you even trying to?




When exactly was this established, actually? Roy suddenly knows all about it.




Time for a weird vision that never really pays off!




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXHMIHrlisU

Itís a weird piece of music. And despite being called Idounís theme, it really isnít played much when sheís around. Oh well. I think this is actually one of the gameís better tunes. I mean, Iíd never just listen to it, but it seems to set the appropriate mood in-game for once.




He somehow immediately realizes that this is from Hartmutís memory. It makes no sense.




Idoun appears for maybe half a second.




Too bad his memories apparently donít include any information whatsoever. Why does the sword even HAVE his memories though?




And the Fire Emblem theme plays as a critical plot moment arrives. Itís pretty awesome, but they totally already did it before, so some of the effect is lost.




Why did we even come here if you didnít plan to take it?










You know, I think it might have been THIS sequence of conversations that most influenced FE7. So many ideas and themes and questions brought up here play a much bigger role in the prequel.




Back to the plot!




Yay! They just canít make up their minds about the name though. Also, Iím not sure where the sword was canonically being held. This chapter makes it look like it was underground here, but if you donít unlock the sidequest then instead it looks like it was outside?




Yay. These gains arenít even that good. At all. Heís still one of the most worthless members of the team.

Well I came in a few turns under time and scored 3 levels more than I needed to since I worked so hard to train Dorothy and Noah, and I got precisely the average number of elixirs. Not a bad outcome. But man, that level was boring enough that I stopped updating for weeks just to avoid it.


Total Restarts: 16 (None here)
Turn Surplus: +68 (Another 5. Every little bit counts)
Things I Regret Missing: A couple of uses of Marcusís silver lance on Rude, a Chapter 5 nomad Marcus had to kill, two Chapter 12 fighters I couldnít kill since I needed supports built elsewhere, a pirate and a wyvern rider on 14x who I didnít have time to go after, 2 enemies in a room I didnít have time to kill on chapter 20x, this one lazy mercenary on chapter 21x.
Legendary Weapon Scoreboard: Durandal slew Ohtz using Oujay on chapter 14x, turn 2; and the top left mamkute using Oujay on chapter 16, turn 9; and Arcard using Oujay on chapter 17, turn 16; and a bottom left paladin using Oujay on chapter 21, turn 7; and a bottom left wyvern rider using Oujay on chapter 21, turn 9. Armads slew Teck using Gonzalez on chapter 20x, turn 10. Forblaze slew the top right mamkute using Lugh on chapter 16, turn 6. Forblaze slew the left section hero using Lugh on chapter 20, turn 2. Forblaze slew the purge bishop using Lugh on chapter 20, turn 5. Maltet slew a middle area wyvern rider using Miledy on chapter 21, turn 2; and a middle area wyvern lord using Miledy on chapter 21, turn 2; and the right mamkute using Miledy on chapter 21, turn 10; and the middle right sniper using Tate on chapter 21x, turn 3; and the silence druid using Tate on chapter 21x, turn 7; and Pereth using Tate on chapter 21x, turn 14.

Melth fucked around with this message at 23:27 on Aug 26, 2015

Broken Loose
Dec 25, 2002

PROGRAM
A > - - -
LR > > - -
LL > - - -


Roy just got his promotion and there are how many missions left?

Fionordequester
Dec 27, 2012

Actually, I respectfully disagree with you there. For as obviously flawed as this game is, there ARE a lot of really good things about it. The presentation and atmosphere, for example, are the most immediate things. No other Yu-Gi-Oh game goes out of the way to really make


Broken Loose posted:

Roy just got his promotion and there are how many missions left?

Three. Maybe four if we're being technical.

Yapping Eevee
Nov 12, 2011

STAND TOGETHER.
FIGHT WITH HONOR.
RESTORE BALANCE.

Eevees play for free.


quote:


Let's see, average stats for 20/1...

HP: 37.2
Str: 14.6
Skl: 17.5
Spd: 16.6
Lck: 18.4
Def: 11.75
Res: 10.7

Huh. He's honestly not even that far behind his averages either. That's pretty sad.

BlitzBlast
Jul 30, 2011

some people just wanna watch the world burn

Roy's stats are pretty low, but it effectively doesn't matter because most of FE6's endgame enemies are either pretty weak or die horribly in one hit from the Sword of Seals.

Insurrectionist
May 21, 2007


Quite the interesting strategy, definitely looked more fun than doing it the normal slow as poo poo way. Honestly, I completely missed the Mamkute chests my last playthrough because I couldn't remember them at all from my previous FE6 playthroughs (I often get bored around the previous map too so I haven't done this one that often) but I did remember the chests didn't have anything particularly important, so I just decided not to bother opening any. Ahhh well.

And man, your Dorothy is ridiculously lopsided, in a good way too for her role in your run. Can probably finish almost anything but Generals and bosses with that Strength. I guess Mamkutes would be tough too.

Edward_Tohr
Aug 11, 2012

In lieu of meaningful text, I'm just going to mention I've been exploding all day and now it hurts to breathe, so I'm sure you all understand.


BlitzBlast posted:

Roy's stats are pretty low, but it effectively doesn't matter because most of FE6's endgame enemies are either pretty weak or die horribly in one hit from the Sword of Seals.

Better hope Roy doesn't run into more than 20 of them, then.

... Or does it have more uses than that? I don't remember.

Orange Fluffy Sheep
Jul 26, 2008

Bad EXP received


Melth posted:



Itís like a clue that you might actually need them. But not quite. Let alone any kind of indication that you canít unlock the true ending without them. The worst part though is that itís too late. You already HAVE the final sidequest and cannot avoid getting this weapon by the time you see this message. He should have said this kind of thing on 8x or something.


I think Roy just wants in general to have a lot of weapons.

BlitzBlast
Jul 30, 2011

some people just wanna watch the world burn

Edward_Tohr posted:

Better hope Roy doesn't run into more than 20 of them, then.

... Or does it have more uses than that? I don't remember.

No, you're remembering right. But there's only one chapter where that could conceivably happen, and you've really hosed up if that chapter is anything but a boring slog.

fade5
May 31, 2012

by exmarx


BlitzBlast posted:

Roy's stats are pretty low, but it effectively doesn't matter because most of FE6's endgame enemies are either pretty weak or die horribly in one hit from the Sword of Seals.
His caps are also pretty low (I think it's 25 across the board+standard 30 Luck) so even if Roy's really blessed he can only ever end up good, not great.


On the other hand, a speed-blessed Lilina on the other hand is a thing of beauty.:allears:

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Melth
Feb 16, 2015

Victory and/or death!


Broken Loose posted:

Roy just got his promotion and there are how many missions left?

Unless you knew how to unlock every single sidequest before starting the game? Probably 1.

Technically 4 chapters, but basically only 3. Even Eliwood gets 4 real ones (28, 29, 30, and the last one)


Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:

I think Roy just wants in general to have a lot of weapons.



Awesome as usual. Roy is out of luck though. When every single character available is carrying 5 items, Merlinus still has 94/100 spots filled. I will barely be able to accommodate treasure on the next level.

Oh and some of you may be wondering what happens when you get an item that you can't drop (like a legendary weapon) when you can't drop anything you're carrying (they're all legendary weapons) and Merlinus is totally full. The answer turns out to be that you can drop something from Merlinus. I tried that to see what would happen on my second run and was disappointed that I didn't get to see a glitch or anything.

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