Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Locked thread
Manatee Cannon
Aug 26, 2010



Onmi posted:

Well excuse me for being such a Dorcas but I'm so Erked right now, I tried my best to keep it Pent up but it put me into a Rutger, so I'm afraid that I had to become a little Zealot for FE6, I know if I had better Wil then I would be able to resist making a Hugh mistake, but unfortunatly Fir me, I've got a Lott on my plate, so I'm not able to Ward away all the negative vibes. Lugh, We all just need a Ray of sunshine in our lives, Wendy we get so aggressive? How Haar-headed do you have to be to just gloss over some very Fa points. It feels like I might as well throw a Dart at a spinning wheel. Uther we can act like rational people, or we Kent all go in Sain. I mean if we want Noah more to do with this, just say. Vaida we always have to resort to Tl;dr insults? We're all getting Moulder here Absolutely Micaiah.

Well, you tried

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Manatee Cannon
Aug 26, 2010




Can the final boss of FE8 just not double at all or what? I can't remember but it seems insane that Duessel at 14 speed can't be doubled by the final boss of the entire game.

Manatee Cannon
Aug 26, 2010



Nihilarian posted:

Seth has 11 con, Duessal has 15, Garm weighs 13.

edit: wait, Seth can't wield Garm at all, and Garm gives +5 speed, that's why Fomortiis can double Seth and not Duessal.

Oh, Garm gives bonus speed. That makes way more sense.

Manatee Cannon
Aug 26, 2010



Five Geese spawn, huh? That's a lot of birds.

Onmi I seem to recall you saying you nerfed Gonzalez's stats in your hack and if so it is a terrible shame.

Manatee Cannon
Aug 26, 2010



I would sacrifice all of the other axe units and consider it justified if it let Gonzalez remain as absurd as he is.

Manatee Cannon
Aug 26, 2010



Insurrectionist posted:

Swordmasters just really need higher Strength caps in general. 25 or something. They're already stuck using weak swords after all.
Of course, neither Rutger nor Fir hit their caps on average, but the fact that even Strength-blessings won't help them is dumb.

Eh, 25 strength would tie them with Heroes and make them statistically superior in other ways. Getting axes would still make Heroes better but it'd be a little samey.

Manatee Cannon
Aug 26, 2010



I don't think calling poor or simple writing acceptable because it's for kids is a good thing anyway.

Manatee Cannon
Aug 26, 2010



Considering Karel's growths, he could probably beat most of the game by himself if you got him as your first unit.

Manatee Cannon
Aug 26, 2010



Sounds lame

Manatee Cannon
Aug 26, 2010



That female Berserker's axe is bigger than she is

Manatee Cannon
Aug 26, 2010



I just imagine the crit animation going something like this

Manatee Cannon
Aug 26, 2010



Endorph posted:

Eh, there's lots of dumb things like that in the series. Why can't Guy recruit Rath in FE7? They're both Sacaen and they make a big deal out of the law of Sacae thing. Why can't Karel recruit Karla? Why can't the non-Caelin Lyn Mode characters recruit Wallace? Why can't Ninian recruit Hawkeye? Why can't Fiora or Florina recruit Farina? Why can't Legault recruit Nino?

Guy and Rath don't know each other though so it doesn't matter if they're from the same place. Why would they listen to each other?

Manatee Cannon
Aug 26, 2010



Lilina and four chests right next to your spawning point seems really weird. It's like you're just gifted half of the things on the map for free; at that point, Lilina may as well just join at the beginning and hand you those treasures herself.

Manatee Cannon
Aug 26, 2010



They aren't though because there is a door and you can just open it and be on your merry way. The guy guarding the door can die in the first turn because he's so close and Lilina is in absolutely zero danger, even if there is no safe spot in the cell because you spawn right next to it and can clear the enemies/sit next to the walls and clear a corner.

The chests aren't more of an investment than they would normally have been and your thief has no other pressing goals until you've dealt with the enemies in the immediate vicinity so I disagree on that point. It's all free loot with no planning to get it and there's nothing in the way of it. The reinforcements at the stairs on the other end could provide an interesting time limit if they spawn with a door key though I suppose, especially if they spawn in before your thief has enough time to get everything because then he'll be in a bad position if he stays to get the rest. That's a moot point if you have chest keys though. Or if you have one bulky guy stand in the doorway.

I dunno, it could certainly work but I'm not seeing any challenge inherent in putting that stuff there. I think what you're going for is to present a choice between the chests and Lilina since the enemies being positioned there make me think it's meant to be difficult to achieve both at once, but I'm not really seeing it. All you need is one guy at the chest door to block for your thief and the rest can take out the enemies or move in to help Lilina. There's not enough space between the two for you not to accomplish everything at once regardless of your plan. Though I never much cared for Lilina's box in the first place and am thus biased against it in any form.

Manatee Cannon
Aug 26, 2010



She could spawn in the bigger cell area where those other three people spawn in, they could give her a tome, and then you get four fighting units to break out of the cell up there with. Then that group and your main army meet up in the middle. The tiny box is just an annoyance to me because of the archer. She's totally safe unless you forget to move her, in which case gently caress you I guess.

Melth posted:

The guy guarding the door is listed as a serious guard. I'm thinking a level 1 general or something with a solid weapon. Probably not moving. Also, you'll note that only one person can even attack him on turn 1- assuming you can cut through the entire enemy formation first- and they have to have either 6 move and a ranged weapon or 7 move to do it. And then no one can open the door.

Multiple people can reach him, you're not thinking of the Paladins at all. Cavaliers and Paladins can both reach on turn one easily if you wanted them to. Or, if he's too tough for that, then you just kill everyone else like you would have done anyway and free her on turn two. There's no threat to her and no need for her to be in there, it doesn't make the stage better or more interesting. She's just held back for a smaller amount of time than in regular FE6. It's pointless.

Manatee Cannon fucked around with this message at 08:55 on May 15, 2015

Manatee Cannon
Aug 26, 2010



Lilina can spawn in turn one and the rest can show up later. She can spawn with nothing and they can give her a tome or something, then they break out. Another option to slow Lilina's group down is to remove the lefthand door to the treasure room since you mentioned she'd have Astohl and Roy's group wouldn't be able to reach it as easily.

Manatee Cannon
Aug 26, 2010



Melth posted:

I'm not thinking of the paladins because the paladins are garbage. The cavaliers are way stronger than them at this point. And if you count the squares, only one can reach (or two if one uses a javelin). Smashing through the whole enemy group, taking down that miniboss, and making sure no one shoots Lilina as the longbow people arrive right that turn should make for a really intense turn 1-2 which calls for good formations and planning. I like that kind of thing.

Only have to kill one enemy to get those two Cavaliers to the door, the one at the corner. Though, again, the Paladins can also reach and you thinking the Paladins are bad (and you're not wrong or anything) does not discount their use in practice. If it's faster or more efficient, you'd use it.

There'd be only six enemies in that box you placed, tops. You could clear them in one turn easy and your mounted units would be free to open the door. It'd also free the chests completely from any threat until those reinforcements show up, though they only matter if they can open the door. Lilina's under no threat and neither are the chests. I get what you're going for, I just don't think it works with that map layout.

Manatee Cannon
Aug 26, 2010



I kinda miss some stuff Sacred Stones did. Also Gaiden.

Manatee Cannon
Aug 26, 2010



The supports were great though? I mean yeah it sucked that they couldn't get unique parent and sibling supports for everyone but it was also totally justified.

It's not that pair up did anything to the way you actually played the game, it's that the maps only ever allowed for one thing: kill the boss. Pair up made the game a lot easier but it didn't affect your strategy. Galeforce did though.

Manatee Cannon
Aug 26, 2010



I don't think he was saying you needed to grind, but rather that Awakening allowed for infinite grinding and that breaks the difficulty curve.

Manatee Cannon
Aug 26, 2010



Yeah it's way easier to grind in Awakening or FE8. You aren't stuck grinding on the lowest level enemies, you can use the legacy characters to have enemies as powerful as you want them to be (this isn't a thing in Lunatic though). Or the grinding DLC, if you're willing to pay the money. It's fundamentally different because of the time investment required. You also increase your support rank (important for pair up) and you weapon rank (allowing you to use more powerful weapons). You don't get that kind of benefit in the starter dungeon of a Final Fantasy game.

Awakening and Sacred Stones are both easy games anyway so it's not a huge deal but it does make a difference.

Manatee Cannon
Aug 26, 2010



Cake Attack posted:

where is the line between easy enough that it affects the balance curve, and hard enough that it can be considered insignificant though?

ultimately, in either case the player is going to be making a decision not to take advantage of infinite resources. especially since my level 99 example was an obvious extreme, you could wreck the difficulty curve via far less

The line is different for everyone but most people that play Fire Emblem a lot seem to agree that hard isn't hard on its own merits in Awakening, with or without grinding. And I feel that, regardless of how extreme it is or not, the Final Fantasy comparison doesn't fit because of all of the side benefits you get and just how much easier and quicker it is to do. But I kinda feel we're in different arguments here because I never said it isn't down to player choice to grind. Yes, you don't have to do it, but I never said that you did. But if you're on average 2-5 levels above the enemies, that's a huge advantage that only takes a couple legacy/risen encounters to accomplish. And that's not including support bonuses and weapon ranks you'd potentially get.

If you're saying that grinding isn't inherently a bad thing in and of itself then sure, I agree. But it does make the game easier when it's there because if you have trouble you can back out of a map and grind a few levels, rather than rethink your strategy. Brute force is a much more viable option now.

Manatee Cannon
Aug 26, 2010



Cake Attack posted:

then i guess i can go gently caress myself, i like Ests

I like Est characters, too

they're probably not worth it if you're looking at it strictly from the numbers or whatever (Sophia sure isn't, though she's usable if you feel like putting in the effort) but they're fun to use so I don't care

Manatee Cannon fucked around with this message at 06:13 on May 31, 2015

Manatee Cannon
Aug 26, 2010



Melth posted:

Every game is Wyvern Emblem. Even games that aren't FE.

All of the wyvern classes suck in Awakening because they get trash skills

Manatee Cannon
Aug 26, 2010



Advance Wars is cool and there should be more of it around as a general rule imo

Manatee Cannon
Aug 26, 2010



Like anyone remembers Cecilia exists after the chapter she's forced on your party

Manatee Cannon
Aug 26, 2010



Treck is legit good for his level

I honestly don't remember this map at all. I did get the good ending for this game, so I must have played this map, but it just does not ring a bell. I guess it's like the desert gaiden chapter in FE7 but bigger and without the gimmick?

Manatee Cannon
Aug 26, 2010



Well of course she does; Clarine's promoted, has a horse, and over twice Sophia's speed

this Sophia's really bad and she's not great even on average, but you do gotta keep averages in mind when comparing people

Manatee Cannon
Aug 26, 2010



Her base stats suck, it's true

Manatee Cannon
Aug 26, 2010



fade5 posted:

His caps are also pretty low (I think it's 25 across the board+standard 30 Luck) so even if Roy's really blessed he can only ever end up good, not great.


On the other hand, a speed-blessed Lilina on the other hand is a thing of beauty.:allears:

Yeah. Roy has a cap of 25 for every stat except Luck. I'm not really sure what they were going for with him. 25 is alright but he literally can't excel at anything and so he can never be more than decent at anything even when he's way above average. In practice, he turns out about as well as your Heroes/Swordmasters on average but you can't really use him for a lot of the game. If he were just a regular unit, I don't see any reason to use him over Dieck and Oujay only loses out on join time since they're about the same except Oujay gets axes on promotion. As for the Myrmidons, Rutger blows him out of the water until the later game and Fir is probably better with hard mode bonuses until the Swordmaster strength cap slows her down. Though they do get the crit bonus and it's possible to get 100% crit rate on the Swordmasters, so actually Roy still deals less damage even with his superior strength cap while also being a lot slower. He's not the worst unit ever or anything, but he is pretty bad and fills a redundant niche that he can never even be that good at.

Should have at least given him a horse or something.

Manatee Cannon
Aug 26, 2010



Speaking of the Tellius games, I've always thought that BEXP was a much better system than the rankings. It gives you a real, tangible benefit to completing a chapter fast and completing the side objectives. I like it when a game rewards you for playing well, even if sometimes the side objectives you got BEXP for were kinda dumb.

Manatee Cannon
Aug 26, 2010



FE6 isn't really a bad game (though it's not a good one either; it's solid at best) if you're just playing the game the way you normally would. It's basically a proof of concept for FE7, where they put the changes they made in 6 to much better use.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Manatee Cannon
Aug 26, 2010



Lunatic is very tedious and Lunatic+ is lame because it adds semi random enemy only super skills on top of that

  • Locked thread