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Shaezerus
Mar 24, 2008

God? Or perhaps a devil?
Show me which you'll choose!


Astro Nut posted:

But once the game was playable and that came out, they decided to go at it again, and bringing in Toei so that the case was technically different from what was previously resolved.

Thinking about it, straight up throwing Big One, Battle Fever Robo and Alpha Five into the background of a couple stages couldn't have helped Behold much either.

Like yeah this is still super dickish but at the same time: guys, come on, you're being flagged down just because the game exists, what are you doing.

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girl dick energy
Sep 30, 2009

You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?


Not that it will help much, but here is the form for contacting Toei directly.

Shoehead
Sep 28, 2005

Wassup, Choom?
Ya need sumthin'?


ImpAtom posted:

The plot is such an amazing gently caress you.

I knew who he was supposed to be I didn't even think about it until a friend pointed it out that Dr. Mi Ah's name is just Haim (as in Haim Saban) backwards.

Ooooh! I was wondering, cos it's such a strange name to not be a reference. I'm not really up on my Rangers info.

Golden Goat
Aug 2, 2012



I never actually liked the power ranger as a kid. This game's just doing it for me cause it's so drat goofy.

Scaly Haylie
Dec 25, 2004



Shaezerus posted:

Thinking about it, straight up throwing Big One, Battle Fever Robo and Alpha Five into the background of a couple stages couldn't have helped Behold much either.

Like yeah this is still super dickish but at the same time: guys, come on, you're being flagged down just because the game exists, what are you doing.

Not to mention Bulk and Skull hanging out by the toy shop.

Blockhouse
Sep 7, 2014

You Win!

Lizard Wizard posted:

Not to mention Bulk and Skull hanging out by the toy shop.

Torin's Bravery, SWAT Mode, etc

MisterBibs
Jul 17, 2010

dolla dolla
bill y'all


Fun Shoe

Shaezerus posted:

Thinking about it, straight up throwing Big One, Battle Fever Robo and Alpha Five into the background of a couple stages couldn't have helped Behold much either.

Where's Alpha 5? I've seen Bulk and Skull.

Shaezerus posted:

Like yeah this is still super dickish but at the same time: guys, come on, you're being flagged down just because the game exists, what are you doing.

Yeah, this is my feeling on the matter as well. The analogy that comes to mind is planetary orbits: successful projects like this that operate close enough to the property they are trying to ape (the sun) to attract attention, but are just generic enough to not get in trouble. Behold thought an orbit similar to Mercury would be great, and now they are complaining that it's really hot.

For gently caress's sake, making a game about five folks who started up their own low-budget kids TV show doesn't have to borrow everything from Power Rangers or Sentai. I'm saying this from someone who absolutely loves the game.

deadly_pudding
May 13, 2009

who the fuck is scraeming
"LOG OFF" at my house.
show yourself, coward.
i will never log off


MisterBibs posted:

For gently caress's sake, making a game about five folks who started up their own low-budget kids TV show doesn't have to borrow everything from Power Rangers or Sentai. I'm saying this from someone who absolutely loves the game.

Here's the deal, though-

Unless you are going to suggest that Toei and Saban own the entire concept of 3 or more people who transform into a brightly-colored fighting force to have adventures about hamfisted morality and the magic of friendship, in which case a whole lot of people in Japan are in deep poo poo, then it's bullshit that they are going after Behold for this game.

I could see them getting the Super 1 and Mazinger statues removed, but that's kind of it. Their Zordon reference is sufficiently different, unless Saban is claiming ownership of all brains and/or heads in jars that command a paramilitary force of superheroes. The sentai that they reference are all different-name parodies. The super robo parts don't transform from any other form, and the super robo itself is really generic no matter which parts you use.

Tae
Oct 24, 2010

Hello? Can you hear me? ...Perhaps if I shout? AAAAAAAAAH!


There's a direct Ginyu Force reference!

MisterBibs
Jul 17, 2010

dolla dolla
bill y'all


Fun Shoe

deadly_pudding posted:

Here's the deal, though-

Unless you are going to suggest that Toei and Saban own the entire concept of 3 or more people who transform into a brightly-colored fighting force to have adventures about hamfisted morality and the magic of friendship, in which case a whole lot of people in Japan are in deep poo poo, then it's bullshit that they are going after Behold for this game.

That's basically my point, though. Toei and Saban don't own the entire concept of 3 or more people who transform into a brightly-colored fighting force to have adventures about hamfisted morality and the magic of friendship. There's a lot of ways you can do a game like that where players go "Oh, this is totally a Sentai/PR simulator". As you point out, they do a lot of stuff right in that regard (I think Transitmancer was an outstanding "Looks like Rita if you're drunk" first monster), but I still can't shake the impression that Beyond decided to hew too closely to the copyrighted material, and that's whats causing their problems more than anything.

Christ, the show you quit is called Super Rangers. Call it Super Hyper Fighting Force, and voila, I just took one problem away.

Hwurmp
May 20, 2005

I LIKE TO MAKE VAGUE THREATS TO PEOPLE ON THE INTERNET BECAUSE I AM TOUGH GUY. P.S. ASK ME ABOUT THE TIME A GIRL BEAT ME UP IN GRADE SCHOOL. HER NAME WAS SUZIE SHE DREW A BIG WEINER ON MY FOREHEAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Chamillionaire is the real victim in all this

Section Z
Oct 1, 2008

Wait, this is the Moon.
How did I even get here?

Pillbug

Stallion Cabana posted:

Is anyone else besides me having an issue with Fast Reflexes not working? I ended up with a scout with like 94% dodge chance with Fast Reflexes active and he still never ever Countered. It's quite annoying.

This worked fine for me before the patch. AFTER the patch, I barely counter anything with anyone. Even if they talk about countering. Literally the only time my scout countered in the last fight was at the very end to crit counter the boss to death before I could use the finisher :argh:

I mean, normal mode I could still likely manage with player countering being prettyfucked, but I wouldn't touch hard mode until such things are fixed.

My other bug before and after patch. Since the middle of season 4, my lead has had a striped motorcycle helmet visually (I THINK a mission you went without him until he popped up for some dialogue at the end was the cause?). Swapping items doesn't help. But at least my stats listings seem to be correct to what I have equipped.

Fun Edit: I went with a Crush theme for my team. The Crush Commandos's Megaton Crusher didn't finish off the monster! We need Gigaton Crushing power, summon Crushington!

Section Z fucked around with this message at 01:48 on May 7, 2015

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007



MisterBibs posted:

That's basically my point, though. Toei and Saban don't own the entire concept of 3 or more people who transform into a brightly-colored fighting force to have adventures about hamfisted morality and the magic of friendship. There's a lot of ways you can do a game like that where players go "Oh, this is totally a Sentai/PR simulator". As you point out, they do a lot of stuff right in that regard (I think Transitmancer was an outstanding "Looks like Rita if you're drunk" first monster), but I still can't shake the impression that Beyond decided to hew too closely to the copyrighted material, and that's whats causing their problems more than anything.

Christ, the show you quit is called Super Rangers. Call it Super Hyper Fighting Force, and voila, I just took one problem away.

It still doesn't really work though

Like look at Zettai Hero Project: Unlosing Ranger vs Darkdeath Evilman. That's got, if anything, even more direct references than Chroma Squad. It just gets a pass because even a company like NISA can afford to tell Saban to gently caress off.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

Even though I have nothing, I yearn for something
Trapped with nothing, I closed off tomorrow
Though I have nothing, because I have nothing
I found it here: This melody


MisterBibs posted:

Christ, the show you quit is called Super Rangers. Call it Super Hyper Fighting Force, and voila, I just took one problem away.
yeah i agree, everything that uses rangers has gotten sued







note: none of these things got sued

Stallion Cabana
Feb 14, 2012
1; Get into Grad School

2; Become better at playing Tabletop, both as a player and as a GM/ST/W/E

3; Get rid of this goddamn avatar.

Section Z posted:

This worked fine for me before the patch. AFTER the patch, I barely counter anything with anyone. Even if they talk about countering. Literally the only time my scout countered in the last fight was at the very end to crit counter the boss to death before I could use the finisher :argh:

I mean, normal mode I could still likely manage with player countering being prettyfucked, but I wouldn't touch hard mode until such things are fixed.

My other bug before and after patch. Since the middle of season 4, my lead has had a striped motorcycle helmet visually (I THINK a mission you went without him until he popped up for some dialogue at the end was the cause?). Swapping items doesn't help. But at least my stats listings seem to be correct to what I have equipped.

Fun Edit: I went with a Crush theme for my team. The Crush Commandos's Megaton Crusher didn't finish off the monster! We need Gigaton Crushing power, summon Crushington!

Yeah I'm seeing this too, even the stuff about talking about countering where they aren't.

They apparently somehow turned off countering during their patch. Somehow.

What in the gently caress.

MisterBibs
Jul 17, 2010

dolla dolla
bill y'all


Fun Shoe

Endorph posted:

note: none of these things got sued

This one got in trouble. In this case, it looks like the devs didn't do enough, knowing they were a pushover and would have no chance of fighting back, to distance themselves.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007



MisterBibs posted:

This one got in trouble. In this case, it looks like the devs didn't do enough, knowing they were a pushover and would have no chance of fighting back, to distance themselves.

It doesn't really matter. Saban went after them because they were easy targets. Short of not making it about multicolored superheroes at all it would have probably been the same. It isn't a matter of not doing enough, it's a matter of not having the money to defend themselves. If they did they'd have pretty solid odds of winning.

Million Ghosts
Aug 11, 2011

spooooooky


The balance in the Rider route is all over the place, drat.

Section Z
Oct 1, 2008

Wait, this is the Moon.
How did I even get here?

Pillbug

So I picked the Red Space Sheriff. I end up getting the Blue Space Sheriff :downs: I'm sure it will be fine but I feel like a kid asking grandma for X and getting Y. "This guy has a G in his name the other one didn't! Yes I know they look almost exactly identical"

Also, loving :lol: for Them making The Support a healer Frog when Assault was hypnotized to think her teammates were monsters

Even with the bugs and legal drama, I do not regret buying this thing one bit.

EDIT: Punch arm I loving love you, 1.5x multiplier before I even hit anything. x2.0 multiplier after a 2 hit combo :allears: Though I admit, all those times I miss a 94% hit make me consider trying out as much accuracy as possible, only my first two hits are 100% plus.

Section Z fucked around with this message at 02:44 on May 7, 2015

MisterBibs
Jul 17, 2010

dolla dolla
bill y'all


Fun Shoe

ImpAtom posted:

It doesn't really matter. Saban went after them because they were easy targets. Short of not making it about multicolored superheroes at all it would have probably been the same.

I agree that Saban went after them because they were easy targets; that's my drat point. In making a game like this, any developer has to make the decision between "We're kinda sorta maybe adapting something from the original source and "We're totally stealing this from an original source" with basically everything.

Nintendo et al can usually do the latter because they are Big Guys. That's why we see screenshots like the ones above. Behold aren't, made the latter choice a few too many times, and suffered a lot of grief for it. It's a goddamned shame.

Edit: I misread their name here once and never looked at it in the opening. Mea culpa.

MisterBibs fucked around with this message at 02:52 on May 7, 2015

Waffleman_
Jan 20, 2011



They're called Behold.

Behold.

You see it every time you turn on the game.

Behold.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

Even though I have nothing, I yearn for something
Trapped with nothing, I closed off tomorrow
Though I have nothing, because I have nothing
I found it here: This melody


but the problem is they would have gotten kicked around no matter what, short of completely changing the premise. which they wouldn't do, because the sentai thing is a huge part of the game and is clearly borne of their love for it.

Rocketlex
Oct 21, 2008

The Manliest Knight
in Caketown


Endorph posted:

but the problem is they would have gotten kicked around no matter what, short of completely changing the premise. which they wouldn't do, because the sentai thing is a huge part of the game and is clearly borne of their love for it.

There's really nothing to suggest this is the case. Even the original Kickstarter pitch named the main characters after the characters from Power Rangers. Like, not parody names. The Yellow Ranger was just named Trini. For a parody, they've been way more directly-referential than necessary from the very beginning.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007



MisterBibs posted:

I agree that Saban went after them because they were easy targets; that's my drat point. In making a game like this, any developer has to make the decision between "We're kinda sorta maybe adapting something from the original source and "We're totally stealing this from an original source" with basically everything.

You're missing the point though. It doesn't matter what they did. Unless they didn't make a Super Sentai homage (which in fact defeats the point) they were going to be targeted.

Rocketlex posted:

There's really nothing to suggest this is the case. Even the original Kickstarter pitch named the main characters after the characters from Power Rangers. Like, not parody names. The Yellow Ranger was just named Trini. For a parody, they've been way more directly-referential than necessary from the very beginning.

There are far more blatant things which have been protected, especially when it comes to homage and parody.

MisterBibs
Jul 17, 2010

dolla dolla
bill y'all


Fun Shoe

^^^ Bemoaning that others have done it and didnt get in trouble doesn't really change things when you're a lowly developer. Develop for the reality, not the ideal.

ImpAtom posted:

It doesn't matter what they did.

As we're discussing a game that has had to deal with multiple setbacks due to developers actively/intentionally lifting from a copyrighted material, it clearly does matter what they did and didn't do.

It wasn't inevitable or unavoidable; the developers made some bad decisions about flying too close to the proverbial sun, as Rocket pointed out.

You can rip off the PR format without having the PR folks getting too mad. It's called what happened on TV when Power Rangers got big in real life.

MisterBibs fucked around with this message at 03:22 on May 7, 2015

NotALizardman
Jun 5, 2011



man you're white-knighting for this large corporation awfully hard

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007



MisterBibs posted:

As we're discussing a game that has had to deal with multiple setbacks due to developers actively/intentionally lifting from a copyrighted material, it clearly does matter what they did and didn't do.

No, it doesn't. Again, short of not making a sentai parody, there is nothing they could do to avoid this. Unless they made a Chroma Squad that was entirely unrecognizable as a sentai parody then they would face the exact same situation.

This is the thing you don't seem to get. The entire reason this happened is because they couldn't afford to fight a court case. If they did have the time and money for a court case then there is a not-insignificant chance they would have won. (And likewise, Saban would probably not have bothered to go after them.)

Nobody wants to play a Tattooed Teenage Fighters From Beverly Hills SRPG which is deathly afraid of evenly lightly homaging the source material. The entire point of Chroma Squad is that it is a loving homage/parody to a specific kind of thing.

ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 03:31 on May 7, 2015

MisterBibs
Jul 17, 2010

dolla dolla
bill y'all


Fun Shoe

ImpAtom posted:

No, it doesn't. Again, short of not making a sentai parody, there is nothing they could do to avoid this.

You can parody things without lifting directly from the source. That's sort of what makes parody, you know, parody. Of you're catching flak from the folks who legally own the original stuff, you're not doing it right.

Sentai simulator? Dont be insane. We're just making a parody of all those shows on TV in the 90s that had latex suited punchmen flying about doing karate. What the hell is a KaiJew?

MisterBibs fucked around with this message at 03:40 on May 7, 2015

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007



MisterBibs posted:

Sentai simulator? Dont be insane. We're just making a parody of all those shows on TV in the 90s that had latex suited punchmen flying about doing karate.

... so the exact thing they're parodying. Things like Big Bag Beetle Borgs and Masked Rider were also tokusatsu shows.

Your argument makes literally no sense. You seem to be arguing they should have made a game that somehow at once is recognizable as a parody of a specific genre while also containing no elements of that genre at all.

Rocketlex
Oct 21, 2008

The Manliest Knight
in Caketown


ImpAtom posted:

... so the exact thing they're parodying. Things like Big Bag Beetle Borgs and Masked Rider were also tokusatsu shows.

Owned by Saban, notably.

Now if you want to talk about Tattooed Teenage Alien Fighters from Beverly Hills, then there's a conversation to be had.

MisterBibs
Jul 17, 2010

dolla dolla
bill y'all


Fun Shoe

ImpAtom posted:

You seem to be arguing they should have made a game that somehow at once is recognizable as a parody of a specific genre while also containing no elements of that genre at all.

No specific elements. Don't put characters from That Show in the background. Don't put one of the main characters of That Show in the background. Don't even bring up something close to That Show. Hell, have someone interrupt someone else who gets close to mentioning That Show. No, That Show had a head in a tube, let's not settle for a brain in a tube. Hey, let's make sure your starting cast isn't Red Black Blue Yellow Pink. That Show did that. And why is the exclusive setup Leader-SIC-Nerd-Agile-Friendly? That Show did that.

Be creative. Trust your audience to see the connections without glaring HEY ITS LIKE SENTAI SERIES 4, GET IT littered about that even the blindest of lawyers will sniff out.

MisterBibs fucked around with this message at 03:58 on May 7, 2015

PaletteSwappedNinja
Jun 3, 2008

One Nation, Under God.

ImpAtom posted:

No, it doesn't. Again, short of not making a sentai parody, there is nothing they could do to avoid this. Unless they made a Chroma Squad that was entirely unrecognizable as a sentai parody then they would face the exact same situation.

Leaving out the very conspicuous "Haim Saban is an arsehole" character might have helped just a little bit.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007



MisterBibs posted:

No specific elements. Don't put characters from That Show in the background. Don't put one of the main characters of That Show in the background. Don't even bring up something close to That Show. Hell, have someone interrupt someone else who gets close to mentioning That Show. No, That Show had a head in a tube, let's not settle for a brain in a tube.

Be creative. Trust your audience to see the connections without glaring HEY ITS LIKE SENTAI, GET IT littered about that even the blindest of lawyers will sniff out.

Okay. And how would this have changed anything?

Do you think Saban wouldn't have done the exact same thing if it was a multicolored group of heroes mentored by a flying pig? Or a multicolored group of heroes mentored by a waffle?

ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 03:58 on May 7, 2015

Rocketlex
Oct 21, 2008

The Manliest Knight
in Caketown


MisterBibs posted:

No specific elements. Don't put characters from That Show in the background. Don't put one of the main characters of That Show in the background. Don't even bring up something close to That Show. Hell, have someone interrupt someone else who gets close to mentioning That Show. No, That Show had a head in a tube, let's not settle for a brain in a tube.

Be creative. Trust your audience to see the connections without glaring HEY ITS LIKE SENTAI, GET IT littered about that even the blindest of lawyers will sniff out.

Exactly. If not for copyright, do it because direct-reference humor isn't actually funny at all. Just putting characters from the thing into your thing isn't really a joke.

The Brain-in-a-Tube I actually consider acceptably creative especially since it has a very different..."personality." It's having Alpha 5 and Bulk and Skull just standing around that's...like...really, guys? That's not parody. That's not even a joke.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

Even though I have nothing, I yearn for something
Trapped with nothing, I closed off tomorrow
Though I have nothing, because I have nothing
I found it here: This melody


MisterBibs posted:

No specific elements. Don't put characters from That Show in the background. Don't put one of the main characters of That Show in the background. Don't even bring up something close to That Show. Hell, have someone interrupt someone else who gets close to mentioning That Show. No, That Show had a head in a tube, let's not settle for a brain in a tube. Hey, let's make sure your starting cast isn't Red Black Blue Yellow Pink. That Show did that.

Be creative. Trust your audience to see the connections without glaring HEY ITS LIKE SENTAI SERIES 4, GET IT littered about that even the blindest of lawyers will sniff out.
[You can direct.]
[I'll see you in court.]
[I'll pay you.]

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007



Rocketlex posted:

The Brain-in-a-Tube I actually consider acceptably creative especially since it has a very different..."personality." It's having Alpha 5 and Bulk and Skull just standing around that's...like...really, guys? That's not parody. That's not even a joke.

I don't particularly think it's a joke but "hey, look, it's that thing" is a pretty established form of humor on both sides of the ocean. It's a big selling point of poo poo like Family Guy. Injokes and references being hidden as easter eggs in the background and crowd shots is also incredibly common.

MisterBibs
Jul 17, 2010

dolla dolla
bill y'all


Fun Shoe

ImpAtom posted:

Okay. And how would this have changed anything?

Made the resulting product less of a ripoff and more of a parody, as was supposedly intended. Also, has the benefit of not having a big neon sign saying 'Sue Us' on it.

Rocketlex
Oct 21, 2008

The Manliest Knight
in Caketown


ImpAtom posted:

It's a big selling point of poo poo like Family Guy.

I consider this complete validation of my point.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007



MisterBibs posted:

Made the resulting product less of a ripoff and more of a parody, as was supposedly intended. Also, has the benefit of not having a big neon sign saying 'Sue Us' on it.

So? It doesn't matter. The existing Chroma Squad is already well on the side of parody. This is the thing you continue to ignore. Saban didn't go after them based off the full and finished game. They went after them based off the concept.

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Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

Even though I have nothing, I yearn for something
Trapped with nothing, I closed off tomorrow
Though I have nothing, because I have nothing
I found it here: This melody


hey guys, here's my post

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