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  • Locked thread
Chuu
Sep 11, 2004

Grimey Drawer
There are suburbanites around Chicago that use Uber to get home from the City after a night out. Think ~$25ish fares to get from Lincoln Park to Lincolnwood or ~$35 to Niles.

Do Uber drives like these types of rides, or is it a major pain in the rear end and they only do it because Uber hides the destination from you until it's too late?

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PT6A
Jan 5, 2006

Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

Chuu posted:

There are suburbanites around Chicago that use Uber to get home from the City after a night out. Think ~$25ish fares to get from Lincoln Park to Lincolnwood or ~$35 to Niles.

Do Uber drives like these types of rides, or is it a major pain in the rear end and they only do it because Uber hides the destination from you until it's too late?

Fares are based on distance and time, much like taxis, right? If so, I can't figure out what the hell drivers actually like. I've had them get pissed off at me for taking a 5 minute fare for $8, and I've had them get pissed off at me for a $50 fare to the end of suburban-hell-on-earth. I think what they want is a big fare that will get them to a place where they can immediately pick up another passenger.

Imaduck
Apr 16, 2007

the magnetorotational instability turns me on
If that apps anything like the Austin Yellowcab app, it's absolutely worthless. Actually, it's worse than worthless, because it straight-up gives you bogus information. I've requested cabs with it about 10 different times, and had one pick me up exactly once, 45 minutes later. All the other times it's told me a cab was coming, and never did.

Uber's app has always worked for me (although sometimes the estimated pickup is off a bit), and pickups always happen in 10 minutes or less. The fairs are cheap and the cars and drivers are nice.

I've flagged cabs in this city that have driven off when I told them my destination. I've had cabs purposely take longer, nonsensical routes to get more money out of me. I've had cab drivers argue with me that a 20% tip wasn't enough. I've called cabs to arrange flights to the airport and had them no-show. This poo poo has never happened with Uber.

I 100% agree that Uber needs to be better regulated and that many folks are probably underestimating their costs. What I don't understand is people staunchly defending the existing cab companies. Maybe cabs are nice in your neck of the woods, but cabs have been absolute poo poo in all the places I regularly travel to (SF, Austin, LV).

Guy DeBorgore posted:

After you account for fuel, vehicle maintenance and those risks, you're not much better off than you would be working at Denny's.
And...? Lots of folks would be happy with somewhat interesting jobs that pay better than Denny's. People who work at Denny's, for example.

Imaduck fucked around with this message at 08:18 on May 19, 2015

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009

Imaduck posted:

If that apps anything like the Austin Yellowcab app, it's absolutely worthless. Actually, it's worse than worthless, because it straight-up gives you bogus information. I've requested cabs with it about 10 different times, and had one pick me up exactly once, 45 minutes later. All the other times it's told me a cab was coming, and never did.

This is my experience with the SF yellowvab (or whoever it is) app. They simply do not show up.

Never a problem with Uber.

to0terfish
Apr 4, 2015

Pork Pro
I've been using groundlink's app in Los Angeles, and it's hit or miss. They're supposed to be a reputable limo company. I've missed a flight by an hour and most recently the guy just no-showed completely. I'll be checking out Uber the next time I need a cab, sounds like drivers actually give a poo poo and take accountability.

luminalflux
May 27, 2005



Motronic posted:

This is my experience with the SF yellowvab (or whoever it is) app. They simply do not show up.

Never a problem with Uber.

Same, never had a problem with Uber not showing up in SF. I have had Lyfts not be able to figure out how to get off Market and on to my office's street during Chinese New Year, and had one keep continuing down the highway without any sign of turning around to come to where I was in East Bay.

I still prefer to take Lyft over Uber since you can tip and also because they seem to treat their drivers a little better.

goodness
Jan 3, 2012

When the light turns green, you go. When the light turns red, you stop. But what do you do when the light turns blue with orange and lavender spots?

luminalflux posted:

Same, never had a problem with Uber not showing up in SF. I have had Lyfts not be able to figure out how to get off Market and on to my office's street during Chinese New Year, and had one keep continuing down the highway without any sign of turning around to come to where I was in East Bay.

I still prefer to take Lyft over Uber since you can tip and also because they seem to treat their drivers a little better.

You can tip Uber drivers cash if you have it. You can do card tips with Lyft?

luminalflux
May 27, 2005



Yeah you can tip them in the review flow after the ride.

Armagnac
Jun 24, 2005
Le feu de la vie.
I was just in Cannes, and Uber Drivers had come down from Paris to deal with the overflow for the festival.

UberPop was dirt cheap, as only 4-6 euros for a 5 min drive, (with 3 people cheaper than the bus) and even the black cars were more reasonable than the Taxis, while always providing water and acting like your own personal private driver. We were staying a bit further out, and basically uber made that a complete non-issue. Saving us ~100 euros a day on rent, while only spending an extra ~10-20 euros on transportation per day.

So much cheaper than in NYC too. Apparently the legality of Uber is grey in France though, but holy crap compared to the shittiness of french cabs I'm used to... it was huge. Also Drivers seemed genuinely happy. Getting any job in France is a non-trivial matter, so the idea that you can just work whenever you feel like it was really cool to most of the drivers I met. And the Black Cars, while costing the same as a Cab, was usually an infinity or a mercedes, something super fancy.

I have no idea about the economics of it.

tsa
Feb 3, 2014

Imaduck posted:

And...? Lots of folks would be happy with somewhat interesting jobs that pay better than Denny's. People who work at Denny's, for example.

It's the same pay as Denny's except you need to purchase an expensive car just to have the privileged of working. Ignoring the all of legal and personal risks a driver is taking, the legal gray zone (where it's not already outlawed) and a billion other things. It's weird how many left leaning people support such an awful and exploitative business model. Also :lol: at the glorification of taxi driving into an "interesting" job.

e:

Armagnac posted:

I was just in Cannes, and Uber Drivers had come down from Paris to deal with the overflow for the festival.

UberPop was dirt cheap, as only 4-6 euros for a 5 min drive, (with 3 people cheaper than the bus) and even the black cars were more reasonable than the Taxis, while always providing water and acting like your own personal private driver. We were staying a bit further out, and basically uber made that a complete non-issue. Saving us ~100 euros a day on rent, while only spending an extra ~10-20 euros on transportation per day.

So much cheaper than in NYC too. Apparently the legality of Uber is grey in France though, but holy crap compared to the shittiness of french cabs I'm used to... it was huge. Also Drivers seemed genuinely happy. Getting any job in France is a non-trivial matter, so the idea that you can just work whenever you feel like it was really cool to most of the drivers I met. And the Black Cars, while costing the same as a Cab, was usually an infinity or a mercedes, something super fancy.

I have no idea about the economics of it.

There's no doubting it's definitely a good option for the passengers in a lot of places, if you don't mind supporting such an exploitative company.

tsa fucked around with this message at 16:56 on May 25, 2015

PT6A
Jan 5, 2006

Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

tsa posted:

There's no doubting it's definitely a good option for the passengers in a lot of places, if you don't mind supporting such an exploitative company.

If you mind supporting an exploitative company, you shouldn't use a taxi service either. Their shenanigans are often just as bad (although usually in a different way).

goodness
Jan 3, 2012

When the light turns green, you go. When the light turns red, you stop. But what do you do when the light turns blue with orange and lavender spots?

tsa posted:

It's the same pay as Denny's except you need to purchase an expensive car just to have the privileged of working. Ignoring the all of legal and personal risks a driver is taking, the legal gray zone (where it's not already outlawed) and a billion other things. It's weird how many left leaning people support such an awful and exploitative business model. Also :lol: at the glorification of taxi driving into an "interesting" job.

e:


There's no doubting it's definitely a good option for the passengers in a lot of places, if you don't mind supporting such an exploitative company.

Nobody has to work for Uber. "Exploitive" jobs in the US is laughable.

the worst thing is
Oct 3, 2013

by FactsAreUseless

PT6A posted:

If you mind supporting an exploitative company, you shouldn't use a taxi service either. Their shenanigans are often just as bad (although usually in a different way).

Find me the conglomerate that owns all taxi companies in the world, or even the US. Or even a state. Or even a city. Monopolies create exploitative conditions, and that's what Uber aims to have in the transportation industry, if they get their way (which they won't, but it takes effort to oppose them). They are not innovators, they're taking advantage of a situation where regulation and public opinion has not caught up to what is possible through current (and common) technology.

Boris Galerkin
Dec 17, 2011

I don't understand why I can't harass people online. Seriously, somebody please explain why I shouldn't be allowed to stalk others on social media!

Guy DeBorgore posted:

This is exactly the problem with being an Uber driver, you're taking on a lot of risks and hidden costs that would usually be covered by the taxi company/insurance. Even if the company is feeling generous enough to pay for the damage to your backseat when someone vomits in it, or covers your missed rides, you're still running the chance of getting in an accident and being personally liable for a gigantic amount of money. And then there's the self-employment taxes, and the chance of getting a string of lovely customers who tank your rating below 4.7 and get you kicked off the service. But people suck at accounting for low-probability high-cost risks, so they just see their hourly earnings and think they're doing great. After you account for fuel, vehicle maintenance and those risks, you're not much better off than you would be working at Denny's.

You get kicked from driving for going under 4.7 stars? Out of 5.0? The hell? I've taken Uber a handful of times and have always just given 3 stars if I even remember to rate them at all because what the hell 3 is average and that's how I feel about every ride I've gotten. I mean they've all taken me from point A to B and I don't really care if they're well dressed or offer me candy or anything like a lot of them do.

E: I've given a few 2s before too just because the guy just won't shut up and let me browse the Internet on my phone or play a game in peace. Oh well it's not my fault the rating system is so hosed up.

Boris Galerkin fucked around with this message at 18:24 on May 25, 2015

Guy DeBorgore
Apr 6, 1994

Catnip is the opiate of the masses
Soiled Meat
That's how it works! Well, 4.6 actually. But yeah, a few customers like you could get a driver kicked off fast.

Orange Sunshine
May 10, 2011

by FactsAreUseless

Boris Galerkin posted:

You get kicked from driving for going under 4.7 stars? Out of 5.0? The hell? I've taken Uber a handful of times and have always just given 3 stars if I even remember to rate them at all because what the hell 3 is average and that's how I feel about every ride I've gotten. I mean they've all taken me from point A to B and I don't really care if they're well dressed or offer me candy or anything like a lot of them do.

E: I've given a few 2s before too just because the guy just won't shut up and let me browse the Internet on my phone or play a game in peace. Oh well it's not my fault the rating system is so hosed up.

Yes, you're destroying the ratings of everyone you ride with.

It's the same with ebay or anyone else that pays attention to ratings. The customer is told that 3 stars is average and 4 is good and 5 is excellent. Meanwhile, the seller or driver is told that anything less than a 95% positive rating means they are so bad they aren't fit to be there.

Really, they ought to go with a thumbs up/thumbs down rating system, since anything less than a 5 star rating is essentially thumbs down.

rjderouin
May 21, 2007
I travel a lot for business and I use Uber almost exclusively. I recommend it as a consumer and I have yet to meet an unhappy driver. That may just be because they want 5 stars or they are brain washed into some MLM scheme with Uber. But honestly I would not trust goons opinions when they become this polarized. If you want to do research on something skip the comedy site for answers probably.

nickutz
Feb 3, 2004

Put blue and red chicken in mouth plz

Tautologicus posted:

Find me the conglomerate that owns all taxi companies in the world, or even the US. Or even a state. Or even a city. Monopolies create exploitative conditions, and that's what Uber aims to have in the transportation industry, if they get their way (which they won't, but it takes effort to oppose them). They are not innovators, they're taking advantage of a situation where regulation and public opinion has not caught up to what is possible through current (and common) technology.

Where do you live that taxi companies actually compete with each other? I've never seen them as anything more than a protected oligopoly.

Choadmaster
Oct 7, 2004

I don't care how snug they fit, you're nuts!
I live in an area of 250k people and we have near a dozen companies with fleets of 10 or more cabs, and a couple dozen independents too. The biggest is Yellow Cab unsurprisingly, but there seems to be plenty of competition. OTOH this city doesn't have a medallion system, just nontransferable permits with reasonable requirements (commercial license/insurance, quarterly independent mechanical inspections, background checks, clearly posted fares and an accurate meter, etc.). Limos (sounds more like it would apply to Uber) have slightly fewer requirements (no posted fares, no meter).

the worst thing is
Oct 3, 2013

by FactsAreUseless

nickutz posted:

Where do you live that taxi companies actually compete with each other? I've never seen them as anything more than a protected oligopoly.

Well they don't work with each other. Boston. I never said they did compete, but they are all separate companies in the same industry, so whatever that makes them, that's what they do.

PT6A
Jan 5, 2006

Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

Choadmaster posted:

I live in an area of 250k people and we have near a dozen companies with fleets of 10 or more cabs, and a couple dozen independents too. The biggest is Yellow Cab unsurprisingly, but there seems to be plenty of competition. OTOH this city doesn't have a medallion system, just nontransferable permits with reasonable requirements (commercial license/insurance, quarterly independent mechanical inspections, background checks, clearly posted fares and an accurate meter, etc.). Limos (sounds more like it would apply to Uber) have slightly fewer requirements (no posted fares, no meter).

Medallions are the big problem. If you removed those, and exclusivity to the airport (either by random lottery, or by restricting access to a single company) there could be actual, fair competition.

nickutz
Feb 3, 2004

Put blue and red chicken in mouth plz

Tautologicus posted:

Well they don't work with each other. Boston. I never said they did compete, but they are all separate companies in the same industry, so whatever that makes them, that's what they do.

I have a handful of cab companies to choose from too but they all provide criminally terrible service and have no incentive to improve. I don't believe my city operates on a medallion system either.

the worst thing is
Oct 3, 2013

by FactsAreUseless

nickutz posted:

I have a handful of cab companies to choose from too but they all provide criminally terrible service and have no incentive to improve. I don't believe my city operates on a medallion system either.

Yea I think I should limit my arguments against Uber to its presence in big metropolitan areas. For a lot of small town areas etc there's only improvement possible for local transportation, going by what I see on my travels and read in these threads. But I see Uber cars all over Boston now, I'm generally able to pick them out. They must be doing alright here. Maybe the cab companies do deserve a little bit of shakeup. But Uber can't be the future with its current business model, it's too fly by night a way of doing things. I think they will be forced to change rather than choose to change, because they would like to be as hands-off as possible and collect their 30% from SF.

Eskaton
Aug 13, 2014

FilthyImp posted:

Keep in mind this is the company headed by a dude that said a variation on 'Driverless cars? gently caress yeah I want those. Why pay people when a computer can do it? Oh, our current drivers??? Well I'm sure they'll find other jobs. You know how it is when technology innovates and whatnot!"

Fuckyou.text

Luddism was dumb in the 19th century and still is.

rjderouin
May 21, 2007
Yeah what the above quote said is true. Some day we won't need drivers, thats just a fact. I don't understand why that makes him heinous, it makes him a realist if anything.

Chuu
Sep 11, 2004

Grimey Drawer

Eskaton posted:

Luddism was dumb in the 19th century and still is.

NPR's Planet Money had an interesting podcast about Luddites recently. The really interesting part is that the Luddites were basically rational actors. The machines did take their jobs, and it was generations before a factory worker's living standards got to the point where it was before automation. We're much better off today that they lost the fight -- but the Luddites stood to lose a lot if automation won, and they did lose a lot.

The parallels to today's economy are incredibly obvious.

EDIT: Link here.

Chuu fucked around with this message at 05:01 on May 27, 2015

the worst thing is
Oct 3, 2013

by FactsAreUseless

rjderouin posted:

Yeah what the above quote said is true. Some day we won't need drivers, thats just a fact. I don't understand why that makes him heinous, it makes him a realist if anything.

Some day we may not need drivers in the strictest sense, but that doesn't mean we won't have drivers. And if Uber wants to be a self-driving car renting service, good for them. I think the dynamics of humans sharing the road with self-driving cars is incredibly tricky though, and might never actually happen the way the post-Singularity people imagine it will.

And consider this, as a small example. I'm emptying out a large personal library, donating a bunch and selling a bunch. Today I packed my car full of books in bins and went to find a donation bin about 15 miles away that I knew was there but didn't know the exact location of by street name. When I got there, I backed up onto the sidewalk because there wasn't enough space otherwise and I wanted to get as close to the bin as possible so I could throw books into the bin from the car. It seems like a bunch of those steps are made much much more difficult with a self driving car. Think about what human actions all that required and how they could be replicated with a computer if at all. Also consider work trucks for construction crews and any number of vehicles that require discretionary, precision yet organic movements that really can't be automated algorithmically. It's like, the more you think about the minutiae that go on day to day involving vehicles, the less area you see a possible self-driving car market covering. Highway driving, sure, great. That's easy stuff. What about the rest of day to day life?

Uber's welcome to try doing it but I doubt they will get very far tbh.

Baronash
Feb 29, 2012

So what do you want to be called?

Boris Galerkin posted:

You get kicked from driving for going under 4.7 stars? Out of 5.0? The hell? I've taken Uber a handful of times and have always just given 3 stars if I even remember to rate them at all because what the hell 3 is average and that's how I feel about every ride I've gotten. I mean they've all taken me from point A to B and I don't really care if they're well dressed or offer me candy or anything like a lot of them do.

E: I've given a few 2s before too just because the guy just won't shut up and let me browse the Internet on my phone or play a game in peace. Oh well it's not my fault the rating system is so hosed up.

Are you joking? Do you also give neutral feedback on Ebay when a seller ships you something on time and in working condition? Giving anything less than a 5 out of 5 (or 10 out of 10, etc) to rate the exchange of goods or services has been giving a negative review for at least as long as the internet has existed.

Captain Bravo
Feb 16, 2011

An Emergency Shitpost
has been deployed...

...but experts warn it is
just a drop in the ocean.
I'm surprised nobody has linked this yet.

banned from Starbucks
Jul 18, 2004




lol do uber riders really expect you to give them bottled water and access to phone chargers?

Chuu
Sep 11, 2004

Grimey Drawer

zVxTeflon posted:

lol do uber riders really expect you to give them bottled water and access to phone chargers?

They did when the service first launched. It's also half the price of when it first launched. That article linked above really nails what they've tried to do. Get a really good first impression. Then ride it.

whoredog
Apr 10, 2002

PT6A posted:

Medallions are the big problem. If you removed those, and exclusivity to the airport (either by random lottery, or by restricting access to a single company) there could be actual, fair competition.

SLC, UT International Airport does not permit uber or lyft pickups. Sadly, all the yellow cabs are downtown late at night and airport people typically have to wait quite a while.

PT6A
Jan 5, 2006

Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

whoredog posted:

SLC, UT International Airport does not permit uber or lyft pickups. Sadly, all the yellow cabs are downtown late at night and airport people typically have to wait quite a while.

How can they forbid it? Surely they can just use the standard passenger pickup lane, just like if they were some random joe picking up a friend from the airport.

If that's an intractable problem for Uber and similar services, they're well hosed.

Uncle Jam
Aug 20, 2005

Perfect

Tautologicus posted:

Yea I think I should limit my arguments against Uber to its presence in big metropolitan areas. For a lot of small town areas etc there's only improvement possible for local transportation, going by what I see on my travels and read in these threads. But I see Uber cars all over Boston now, I'm generally able to pick them out. They must be doing alright here. Maybe the cab companies do deserve a little bit of shakeup. But Uber can't be the future with its current business model, it's too fly by night a way of doing things. I think they will be forced to change rather than choose to change, because they would like to be as hands-off as possible and collect their 30% from SF.

Boston has the worst cab service of any large american city. Like, its horrid by many magnitudes. My top 5 list of 'oh god I almost died' is all taxicab rides and 3 of those were in Boston. Many of the cabs don't even have working seatbelts, they're really poo poo.

KYOON GRIFFEY JR
Apr 12, 2010



Runner-up, TRP Sack Race 2021/22

Uncle Jam posted:

Boston has the worst cab service of any large american city. Like, its horrid by many magnitudes. My top 5 list of 'oh god I almost died' is all taxicab rides and 3 of those were in Boston. Many of the cabs don't even have working seatbelts, they're really poo poo.

It's definitely gotten better in the last couple years, at least to the point where cab service from Logan is tolerable. Good loving luck in the rest of the city, though.

the worst thing is
Oct 3, 2013

by FactsAreUseless

Uncle Jam posted:

Boston has the worst cab service of any large american city. Like, its horrid by many magnitudes. My top 5 list of 'oh god I almost died' is all taxicab rides and 3 of those were in Boston. Many of the cabs don't even have working seatbelts, they're really poo poo.

But Tufkanjian just bought a fleet of new Camry hybrids a few years back, it's not the cars that are poo poo..it's all the poo poo drivers, the haitians mostly.

crashdome
Jun 28, 2011
I loving love Uber. I'm only a rider so if the problems are so rampant and bad I must be extremely lucky with the drivers I get. I've taken cabs in the past after drinking and I live in the suburbs about 8 miles from the south end of the city proper and my fares were a crazy ~$30 with tip for one way (8 miles) trip. Also, since the majority of the two taxi companies stayed in the central downtown area it meant I was lucky to get a ride to show up on the south end within 15 minutes or less ~ if at all. When a driver was friendly, I'd ask where they were from, how they like the job etc... and ever single cabbie complained about their job. Every drat one. Saying vehicle costs, etc... cut into their tip pay.

Since I've started taking Uber, the fare was only ~$10 + tip so I upped my tip amount to be about ~$15 just because of the savings over a cab. In addition to nights I go out drinking, instead of busing to a job site during the day, I sometimes contact Uber and they've on more than one occasion given me their personal phone number for trips outside of the city. I also asked them the same questions as the I did the cabbies and every single one of them said something positive.

Maybe it's the lovely cab service here or the crap public transportation but, Uber drivers here have been overwhelmingly friendly and positive about the job.

Oh, and the fact that I don't have to carry cash because the cabs here almost outright refuse credit cards and I never carry cash.

Uber itself being exploitive or not, I've always had the impression cab companies in my city were exploitive as gently caress but, with shittier and more expensive service. When I visit other cities I would occasionally use them in tight situations I couldn't or didn't need a rental and my god it's annoying no matter what city. gently caress taxis.

whoredog
Apr 10, 2002

PT6A posted:

How can they forbid it? Surely they can just use the standard passenger pickup lane, just like if they were some random joe picking up a friend from the airport.

If that's an intractable problem for Uber and similar services, they're well hosed.

Some in SLC senate wanted them both completely banned last year. Now you have to go to the airport and have a background check/inspection + pay a fee. I assume you're on a list the airport staff/police have after that.

Eskaton
Aug 13, 2014

Chuu posted:

The parallels to today's economy are incredibly obvious.

Except in this case the labor is being replaced by computers and not toiling laborers. Those poor drivers are out of a job I guess?

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MisterTurtle
Jul 10, 2001

Cecil Rhodes owns your life.

Uncle Jam posted:

Boston has the worst cab service of any large american city. Like, its horrid by many magnitudes. My top 5 list of 'oh god I almost died' is all taxicab rides and 3 of those were in Boston. Many of the cabs don't even have working seatbelts, they're really poo poo.
As another poster mentioned it has improved a bit in the past few years but on the whole they're still severely lacking. Many cabbies in Boston used to (or maybe still) outright refuse to bring people to certain areas of the city such as East Boston late at night simply because it was inconvenient. I've spent some time in SF and their taxi system was a complete disaster as well.

While I don't dispute the way Uber treats its drivers is ethically questionable such services would never have come into existence if the current taxi system actually worked. For years the taxis in most cities refused to adapt and improve standards - in many cities (Boston included) taxis didn't even have the capability to accept cards until somewhat recently. No one wants to call for a cab, be placed on hold for 20 minutes and then wonder if a driver is ever actually going to show up. The taxi industry brought this 'disruption' onto itself by refusing to adapt and improve so now they've got to figure out a way to survive.

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