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I love that Ewing put Monica Rambeau back in her NEXTwave outfit.
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Jan 20, 2016 21:33
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Anything's better than blackface white girl Monica under Land.
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Jan 20, 2016 22:12
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the way Ewing did it even commented on the way she was portrayed while Land was on the book. It was very well done I think.
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Jan 20, 2016 22:17
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Lurdiak posted:Anything's better than blackface white girl Monica under Land. Hang on, I'm sure Greg Land was tracing black porn stars for Monica.
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Jan 20, 2016 22:18
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zoux posted:Hang on, I'm sure Greg Land was tracing black porn stars for Monica. Is there a story behind this? Cuz it sounds hilarious.
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Jan 22, 2016 03:09
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Norns posted:Is there a story behind this? Cuz it sounds hilarious. Greg Land is an artist notorious for tracing his art from other sources. Sometimes, it's his own art.  But often it's just random poo poo he GIS'd http://www.bleedingcool.com/2015/07/28/good-luck-finding-greg-lands-latest-references/ There's some quote out there about him saying he uses "reference images" including softcore porn to help him draw. I don't know about the "softcore" part.  Basically, dude absolutely traces stuff and it's really obvious if you read a lot of his stuff and look at the poses the women will randomly strike for no real reason. burnishedfume fucked around with this message at 03:22 on Jan 22, 2016 |
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Jan 22, 2016 03:20
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Norns posted:Is there a story behind this? Cuz it sounds hilarious. Monica Lambeau is a black woman who for the vast majority of her comic life either had some variation of an afro or dreads or some other hairstyle that doesn't involve massive chemical treatment if you're black. Then Greg Land started drawing her like a every other woman he draws, only with dark skin. Ewing even called it out while Land was still the artist, having a bystander say "thanks you for helping me to convince my daughter to straighten her hair, she used to complain about the burning." Tl;Dr black hair is a complicated and political topic.
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Jan 22, 2016 03:26
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_hair There's some complicated culture involved.
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Jan 22, 2016 03:33
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It's not that complicated. Society tells black women that to be beautiful they have to look more like white people.
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Jan 22, 2016 05:07
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The complicated part was when my neighbor told me how happy he was that his daughter had "good hair" and my brain tried to figure out how I, being white, could respond.
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Jan 22, 2016 05:15
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Skwirl posted:Monica Lambeau is a black woman who for the vast majority of her comic life either had some variation of an afro or dreads or some other hairstyle that doesn't involve massive chemical treatment if you're black. Then Greg Land started drawing her like a every other woman he draws, only with dark skin. I found a few different artist impressions of Monica Lambeau? Which one would be Greg?    
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Jan 22, 2016 05:59
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The one that very obviously looks like a terrible trace. And doesn't look like the others.
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Jan 22, 2016 06:01
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Goffer posted:I found a few different artist impressions of Monica Lambeau? Which one would be Greg? You know, his Monet is EXACTLY that Monica. She looks like she's in tampon commercial.
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Jan 22, 2016 07:19
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Using reference images isn't necessarily a bad thing. The issue with Land is what references he uses (i.e. bodybuilders, models, and porn, which is why nobody has any natural body language in his books), and that he reuses them so frequently and transparently.
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Jan 22, 2016 07:59
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There's also a line between references and tracing. Transmetropolitan used references extensively, but it doesn't look like a bunch of unrelated photos poorly photoshopped into the comic. It looks like drawings.
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Jan 22, 2016 08:08
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Salvador Larocca traces a bunch, as well, but he actually puts effort into composition and keeping characters' appearances consistent, instead of rearranging the same 20-some pieces of jackoff material for every job. Land is bad. Might be a lovely human being, but as a comic artist, he is a lazy motherfucker who churns out hack trash.
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Jan 22, 2016 08:23
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Lurdiak posted:There's also a line between references and tracing. I said "transparently". 
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Jan 22, 2016 08:45
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Alien Rope Burn posted:Using reference images isn't necessarily a bad thing. The issue with Land is what references he uses (i.e. bodybuilders, models, and porn, which is why nobody has any natural body language in his books), and that he reuses them so frequently and transparently. I don't think Land even uses references anymore I think he's got a stock of pre-traced work set up in photoshop that he plops down like a lovely web comic artist.
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Jan 22, 2016 09:25
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Yeah I know some people hate on Larroca the same way but I can enjoy a book with his work just fine. I won't seek out books with his name on the cover but it won't keep me away like Land's name does. Tracing is cheap and lazy, but at least he puts some effort into tracing things that actually fit into the look and flow of the comic. And he traces more than the same 10 images over and over. Greg Land's traces are the same exact very noticeable things over and over again. And he's so bad he'll trace two different looking people for the same character in different panels in the same book, and sometimes on the same page. His stuff never fits what the scene or dialogue calls for either so it's extra bad. A book has to be really worth reading for me put up with his art. And Ewing's Mighty Avengers was just that.
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Jan 22, 2016 11:33
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Holy poo poo lol. The porn traces are so obvious when you're looking for them. Incredible. I think the tracing thing, and old school light boxing are probably a lot more common than people care to think about. I've never seen such hilarious versions of it prior.
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Jan 22, 2016 16:26
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Norns posted:Holy poo poo lol. The porn traces are so obvious when you're looking for them. Ugh they really are. Any time I notice it in Uncanny X-men I think "well, that's definitely a girl getting hosed" or something similar. So awkward.
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Jan 22, 2016 16:29
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Norns posted:Holy poo poo lol. There's also this tumblr. redbackground fucked around with this message at 16:39 on Jan 22, 2016 |
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Jan 22, 2016 16:31
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Gillen actually had a joke about Land's women all being traced in his Iron Man run- some alien girl (who of course looks exactly like every other woman Land draws) asks Tony if "she looks like any other woman." Tony just smiles. Wish I could find that page.
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Jan 22, 2016 16:31
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For all the mainstream controversy there was with Manara's Spider Woman cover, I'm surprised the Land stuff with the obvious orgasm porn faces has never gotten attention past blogging sites and forums.
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Jan 22, 2016 16:35
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The most galling thing is when he's asked to draw something that he can't just GIS and trace, he's actually fairly solid. I've seen him do some monster designs that actually look pretty good.
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Jan 22, 2016 17:00
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hope and vaseline posted:For all the mainstream controversy there was with Manara's Spider Woman cover, I'm surprised the Land stuff with the obvious orgasm porn faces has never gotten attention past blogging sites and forums. Land repurposing porn images into action scenes looks stupid but doesn't usually look abjectly sexual because Land usually uses sex poses that are somewhat athletic in nature and actions them up enough to make it just look lazy and weird. Plus he also uses non porn celebrity references a lot, like Monica looking like Halle Berry or Tony looking like a backstreet boy. Manera took an action shot reference and porned it up, which is what he's good at, and did it on a book which was directly at odds with that.
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Jan 22, 2016 18:35
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I bet Land gets work because he's fast and doesn't ask for much.
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Jan 22, 2016 19:24
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There was one issue near the end of Land's bit that I thought really different and like a 100x better than his usual poo poo. Like he could totally be a mostly inoffensive artist if he really tried
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Jan 22, 2016 19:25
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twistedmentat posted:I bet Land gets work because he's fast and doesn't ask for much. Yeah. Dude probably always meets deadlines and has never been the cause of a delay. Hell, he can probably get away with last second rewrites or changes better than most.
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Jan 22, 2016 19:27
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I find that any artist who outright traces instead of just using references really compromises any comic I'm reading. The characters' expressions just never quite look right for what's going on, it gives all the art this uncanny valley feeling that's really distracting. Larocca and Hitch don't draw poorly, but it still looks as unnatural as a Poser comic from Deviantart.hope and vaseline posted:For all the mainstream controversy there was with Manara's Spider Woman cover, I'm surprised the Land stuff with the obvious orgasm porn faces has never gotten attention past blogging sites and forums. I remember there was an obviously traced cover that got called out by a BSS lurker's artist friend some time ago, making Marvel pull the cover when the copyright holder of the traced photo got heated under the collar about it. Then Hermanos was like "SNITCHES GET STITCHES" instead of thinking that was a cool thing to do to a hack artist. Marvel even had a press conference where they said tracing would no longer be tolerated, and then a new Land series was announced less than a month later.
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Jan 22, 2016 20:55
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Pretty sure I heard an interview with Neal Adams admitting to traceing and light boxing. Maybe a Fatman on Batman interview if i recall. Seems a lot more common than people would like to admit?
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Jan 22, 2016 21:07
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Norns posted:Pretty sure I heard an interview with Neal Adams admitting to traceing and light boxing. Maybe a Fatman on Batman interview if i recall. Comic Nerds know it's common-ish but Land gets poo poo for putting in no effort. Talentless hack with nerve damaged hands that I am I could probably do a better job then Land by just taking the time to chose better suited tracing material so anybody on this forum with even rudimentary knowledge of google images certainly could.
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Jan 22, 2016 23:36
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It does seem like a big risk for legal hassle, especially on covers. The guy who made those 2 tone Obama HOPE posters back in the day got caught tracing and had the crap sued out of him.
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Jan 22, 2016 23:53
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I'm actually kinda surprised at how positively the end has been taken by most people (it seems). It just felt really inconsistent with how Doom's been written ever and even with how a lot of the stuff with Reed has trended. Maybe I had too high of expectations but it was really kinda disappointing to me how the final conflict actually played out.
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Jan 23, 2016 00:44
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It's not so much a story about Doom as it is about Hickman's Doom, and it seemed entirely in keeping with Hickman's Doom: he got the job done when no one else could have, but his own flaws were built into the system, and once again Reed showed up to bail him out from that. In a broad-strokes version, it's the afterlife machine from their college dorm all over again, but this time, Reed beats Doom until he has to listen.
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Jan 23, 2016 01:34
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Lurdiak posted:I remember there was an obviously traced cover that got called out by a BSS lurker's artist friend some time ago, making Marvel pull the cover when the copyright holder of the traced photo got heated under the collar about it. Here is a New York Post article about it since no comic book website bothers to keep their archive up. This was before hermanos was BSS mod and before BSS even existed I think, so I am not sure where the part about BSS catching it and hermanos trying to get people to stop snitching came from, that might have been something else? This is the only time I remember them pulling a cover over this.
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Jan 23, 2016 02:31
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I forgot about that, it's an especially poor choice since the King of Spain was actually instrumental in bringing back free elections after Castro's death.
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Jan 23, 2016 02:40
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Edge & Christian posted:You might be mixing up this with another story, I don't remember, but Mike Mayhew traced a portrait of the actual King of Spain and it was going to be used for a House of M cover, then the government of Spain went "hey don't trace a portrait of our king to promote a book about a supervillain taking over the world" and they pulled the cover and apologized and etc. Marvel also had the ghost of Princess Di becoming a member of X-Statix at one point, but changed it to a new character after the backlash.
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Jan 23, 2016 02:43
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Edge & Christian posted:You might be mixing up this with another story, I don't remember, but Mike Mayhew traced a portrait of the actual King of Spain and it was going to be used for a House of M cover, then the government of Spain went "hey don't trace a portrait of our king to promote a book about a supervillain taking over the world" and they pulled the cover and apologized and etc. I am talking about a completely separate incident.
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Jan 23, 2016 03:49
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WickedHate posted:Marvel also had the ghost of Princess Di becoming a member of X-Statix at one point, but changed it to a new character after the backlash. Lurdiak posted:I am talking about a completely separate incident.
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Jan 23, 2016 04:32
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