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Quandary
Jan 29, 2008

I pledge allegiance to the Crimson and Cream

DGK2000 posted:

I think she said the word IF. I don't see an implication of 4 scum.

If gridlock was the only scum, he couldn't just hammer right now and win the game because then we'd just go to the next day.

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Dead Cow
Nov 3, 2009

Passion makes the world go round.
Love just makes it a safer place.


DGK2000 posted:

Oh, no. Her views happen to coincide with mine, and I'll take it.

This too, I was the first to see Bowmore being a huge loving liar

Dead Cow
Nov 3, 2009

Passion makes the world go round.
Love just makes it a safer place.


Quandary posted:

If gridlock was the only scum, he couldn't just hammer right now and win the game because then we'd just go to the next day.

If you're not scum, than your vote would be on gridlock.

You know me, you've played with me, you know I'm not good enough to be the last scum alive.

Gridlocked
Aug 2, 2014

MR. STUPID MORON
WITH AN UGLY FACE
AND A BIG BUTT
AND HIS BUTT SMELLS
AND HE LIKES TO KISS
HIS OWN BUTT
by Roger Hargreaves


Quandary posted:

If gridlock was the only scum, he couldn't just hammer right now and win the game because then we'd just go to the next day.

This is actually false. If you were the last copping role and I hammered now I'd just win. No way is there one more cop.

Quandary
Jan 29, 2008

I pledge allegiance to the Crimson and Cream

Seriously though - go look at DC and bowmore's interactions day 1. They spend a lot of time bickering and arguing and calling each other scummy, but its all so forced. I commented way earlier in the game that I didn't understand why DC was all over bowmore for lying about a joke vote and I thought it was a weirdly terrible case at the time, but looking back I'm pretty sure it was forced distancing between two scum buddies.

Dead Cow
Nov 3, 2009

Passion makes the world go round.
Love just makes it a safer place.


Quandary posted:

Seriously though - go look at DC and bowmore's interactions day 1. They spend a lot of time bickering and arguing and calling each other scummy, but its all so forced. I commented way earlier in the game that I didn't understand why DC was all over bowmore for lying about a joke vote and I thought it was a weirdly terrible case at the time, but looking back I'm pretty sure it was forced distancing between two scum buddies.

If that was true then I would have been lynched day 1.

gently caress you

Dead Cow
Nov 3, 2009

Passion makes the world go round.
Love just makes it a safer place.


Quandary posted:

Seriously though - go look at DC and bowmore's interactions day 1. They spend a lot of time bickering and arguing and calling each other scummy, but its all so forced. I commented way earlier in the game that I didn't understand why DC was all over bowmore for lying about a joke vote and I thought it was a weirdly terrible case at the time, but looking back I'm pretty sure it was forced distancing between two scum buddies.

gently caress you and everything you stand for.

Gridlocked
Aug 2, 2014

MR. STUPID MORON
WITH AN UGLY FACE
AND A BIG BUTT
AND HIS BUTT SMELLS
AND HE LIKES TO KISS
HIS OWN BUTT
by Roger Hargreaves


I am feeling a lot of pressure from DGK and DC to just hammer Quandary. That makes me feel off about it, I really wanna see what QPQ has to say first.

That way if QPQ is undecided as well at least I know my issues are not unfounded, and if QPQ drops the hammer and he is wrong at least I don't feel guilty for falling into a trap.

Quandary
Jan 29, 2008

I pledge allegiance to the Crimson and Cream

Gridlocked posted:

This is actually false. If you were the last copping role and I hammered now I'd just win. No way is there one more cop.

It's possible I'm being dumb - if you are the scum and lynched me right now, then killed one QPQ or something, then the next day it would be 3 alive with 1 scum and the game wouldn't be over? I'm not sure how a copping role has any relevance here, especially since ecco made all the cops in the gameworthless.

Quandary
Jan 29, 2008

I pledge allegiance to the Crimson and Cream

Dead Cow posted:

gently caress you and everything you stand for.

Just a game, buddy.

Dead Cow
Nov 3, 2009

Passion makes the world go round.
Love just makes it a safer place.


Quandary posted:

Seriously though - go look at DC and bowmore's interactions day 1. They spend a lot of time bickering and arguing and calling each other scummy, but its all so forced. I commented way earlier in the game that I didn't understand why DC was all over bowmore for lying about a joke vote and I thought it was a weirdly terrible case at the time, but looking back I'm pretty sure it was forced distancing between two scum buddies.

I figured that poo poo out from the very beginning of his comments on Kleedrac, don't you take that poo poo away from me rear end in a top hat. I DID A GOOD MAFIA THING. I FOUND THE BAD GUY.

Quandary
Jan 29, 2008

I pledge allegiance to the Crimson and Cream

Dead Cow posted:

I figured that poo poo out from the very beginning of his comments on Kleedrac, don't you take that poo poo away from me rear end in a top hat. I DID A GOOD MAFIA THING. I FOUND THE BAD GUY.

His comments on Kleedrac weren't scummy though, regardless of him flipping scum. You attacked him on a really bad case to distance yourself if one you did flip.

Dead Cow
Nov 3, 2009

Passion makes the world go round.
Love just makes it a safer place.


Gridlocked posted:

I am feeling a lot of pressure from DGK and DC to just hammer Quandary. That makes me feel off about it, I really wanna see what QPQ has to say first.

That way if QPQ is undecided as well at least I know my issues are not unfounded, and if QPQ drops the hammer and he is wrong at least I don't feel guilty for falling into a trap.

The pressure is on because if you hammer Quandary and he flips scum, we win.

Dead Cow
Nov 3, 2009

Passion makes the world go round.
Love just makes it a safer place.


Quandary posted:

His comments on Kleedrac weren't scummy though, regardless of him flipping scum. You attacked him on a really bad case to distance yourself if one you did flip.

No, it was extremely scummy and I stuck by it through MULTIPLE GAME DAYS. How is that distancing?

Gridlocked
Aug 2, 2014

MR. STUPID MORON
WITH AN UGLY FACE
AND A BIG BUTT
AND HIS BUTT SMELLS
AND HE LIKES TO KISS
HIS OWN BUTT
by Roger Hargreaves


Quandary posted:

It's possible I'm being dumb - if you are the scum and lynched me right now, then killed one QPQ or something, then the next day it would be 3 alive with 1 scum and the game wouldn't be over? I'm not sure how a copping role has any relevance here, especially since ecco made all the cops in the gameworthless.

If I lynched you now, you flip Cop aren't you the last cop role and ergo I'd win? I thought scum win when all cop roles are dead? Or am I totally wrong about the rules?

Dead Cow
Nov 3, 2009

Passion makes the world go round.
Love just makes it a safer place.


Gridlocked posted:

If I lynched you now, you flip Cop aren't you the last cop role and ergo I'd win? I thought scum win when all cop roles are dead? Or am I totally wrong about the rules?

Scum win when they control the vote, I was wrong about the count if there's one scum left.

Quandary
Jan 29, 2008

I pledge allegiance to the Crimson and Cream

Dead Cow posted:

No, it was extremely scummy and I stuck by it through MULTIPLE GAME DAYS. How is that distancing?

Thats exactly distancing. Putting constant pressure on someone but never enough to get them lynched.


Gridlocked posted:

If I lynched you now, you flip Cop aren't you the last cop role and ergo I'd win? I thought scum win when all cop roles are dead? Or am I totally wrong about the rules?

Scum win when they outnumber the town . Roles are irrelevant to win conditions.

Dead Cow
Nov 3, 2009

Passion makes the world go round.
Love just makes it a safer place.


Quandary posted:

Thats exactly distancing. Putting constant pressure on someone but never enough to get them lynched.


Scum win when they outnumber the town . Roles are irrelevant to win conditions.

Because no one would believe me!

Gridlocked
Aug 2, 2014

MR. STUPID MORON
WITH AN UGLY FACE
AND A BIG BUTT
AND HIS BUTT SMELLS
AND HE LIKES TO KISS
HIS OWN BUTT
by Roger Hargreaves


Quandary posted:

Scum win when they outnumber the town . Roles are irrelevant to win conditions.

Ah, that makes more sense. Am kinda tempted to hammer you now just because it could force a win; but if I'm wrong I know for sure DC is gonna go "IT WAS GRIDLOKED THE WHOLE TIME!" and so will DGK.

Gridlocked
Aug 2, 2014

MR. STUPID MORON
WITH AN UGLY FACE
AND A BIG BUTT
AND HIS BUTT SMELLS
AND HE LIKES TO KISS
HIS OWN BUTT
by Roger Hargreaves


Gridlocked posted:

Ah, that makes more sense. Am kinda tempted to hammer you now just because it could force a win; but if I'm wrong I know for sure DC is gonna go "IT WAS GRIDLOKED THE WHOLE TIME!" and so will DGK.

I am also just as happy to vote for DC and leave it up to QPQ to decide. That absolves both my conscience and takes the pressure off.

DGK2000
May 3, 2007

Hotel Soap is super proud of his little perfumed balls that never get dirty or stinky

Quandary posted:

Would also vote DGK. Lots of posting but very little substance. He tried to get involved in that dumb loving 'gotcha' on bowmore, and looked to characterize the vote on dead cow as a policy lynch when there was a lot of evidence behind it. Lots of white noise posting.

I don't like deadcow much either, mostly because of the 'gotcha' vote on bowmore. What possible reason would scum have to lie about something so easily confirmable, thats the worst case. Pushing it is the easiest possible vote and reads really scummy to me.

For now though ##Vote Shanakin

Defense of bowmore, heavily trying to mischaracterize my posts. Throws shade on DC as well for suspicion of Bowmore. This is pretty heavily defensive posting.

Quandary posted:

1. Meta is a pretty bad argument and I don't agree with it, and moreover it's one of the easier arguments to make to characterize a case. I don't like that you also added a conditional "unless its changed" in there as an out as well.
2. Just because it was common to policy lynch DC doesn't excuse the fact that its a bad lynch. Especially given that (almost) everyone else on the case had legitimate arguments and reasons, and then you come along with "oh well I guess we're policy lynching" which is a really bad way to justify a vote on the current vote leader. If you want to avoid a no-lynch that's understandable, but playing it off as a policy lynch is bad and an easy case to bandwagon on.
3. Just because you need to have more posts than Ecco doesnt mean they all have to be meaningless.

I really don't like the way multiple times you find the easiest case to make day 1 and bandwagoned on with both bowmore and DC. Would vote.


Though I do agree with you on this point, it is weird.

More bowmore defense and mischaracterization of my posts.

Quandary posted:

Rereading over bowmore and a few of the votes on him, j really do not see it. It strikes me as bowmore was being lazy d1 but didn't read as particularly scummy, and most of the votes on him are based on joke vote stuff or his reaction to calls out on his joke vote stuff and I really disagree with them. Would not vote.

Also, pretty WIFOMy, but I don't think qpq would have cased kleedrac as scum at the beginning of d2 because he would have known more clearly who was killed. But that's just a gut thing.

Look, even more Bowmore defense.

Quandary posted:

I could see a meinberg vote, but I think Shanakin and DGK are much better votes. Go look at Shanakin for me please

Starts defending Meinberg here.

Quandary posted:

Yeah posts like these are newbie scum 101. Very happy with my vote on shanakin, though I'd switch to dgk or meinberg or DC I guess if that's the way the wind pushes.

Not pictured: Calling Shanakin scum for wanting to lynch Bowmore.

Quandary posted:

Bowmore how do you feel about dgk and shanakin?

Gives his buddy a chance to put down opinions on him calling me scummy.

Quandary posted:

We're -1 to lynching DGK. Someone unvote so we dont lynch and waste a ton of good discussion time.

Scum say this poo poo all the time for town cred.

Quandary posted:

I feel extraordinarly strongly about Shanakin being newbie scum.


This is his vote on DC. Nothing too it at all except a blantant bandwagon. 2 minutes later:


The unvote is in regards to a post DC made about his scum reads. An easy way to unvote and attempt to still show suspicion while preventing a lynch. This is followed up 4 minutes later by a lurker vote, where it stays until deadline. My vote has nothing to do with whether or not Shanakin was away or forgot to come back by deadline to revote DC, it has to do with the way he tried to look like he was on the lynch DC train without staying on it, in the most newbie scum way possible.

In addition, one of the most common newbie scum tells is attempts to try to use 'go town!'rhetoric. I did this a shitton as newbie scum, and Shanakin is doing it here:


Shanakin even does the tried and true method of giving content without content by so kindly doing a votecount for us day 1.

Day 2, this is his scum reads:


The first paragraph is the most nonsense non-commital read possible, and the second half is a toss-up between two of the more primary targets of the day, both thrown out without much reasons. There's a few other posts in there, but his vote has since been switched to DGK with the following well thought out scum hunting:




To summarize this case, Shanakin is newbie scum because he has spent the whole first two days attempting to give reads without scum hunting, jumping around from popular case to popular case without any reasoning, and when reasoning is given its in the most non-commital sense possible, to the extent of even unvoting if challenged. Seriously, read the post history guys.

A lot of this is basically pushing on Shanakin.

Quandary posted:

It would be extremely silly at this point to distrust the cop claim or assume a godfather role. They're both possibilities, but far less likely than the most likely suggestion which is that grandi is telling the truth and that DGK is town

This, when Grandi claimed. There is no loving way he would say this if he was indeed a paranoid cop, as it incredibly undermines his later claim by showing that he has no knowledge of sanity.

Dead Cow
Nov 3, 2009

Passion makes the world go round.
Love just makes it a safer place.


Gridlocked posted:

I am also just as happy to vote for DC and leave it up to QPQ to decide. That absolves both my conscience and takes the pressure off.

Please, hammer Quandary and have the town win.

DGK2000
May 3, 2007

Hotel Soap is super proud of his little perfumed balls that never get dirty or stinky

Quandary posted:

It's possible I'm being dumb - if you are the scum and lynched me right now, then killed one QPQ or something, then the next day it would be 3 alive with 1 scum and the game wouldn't be over? I'm not sure how a copping role has any relevance here, especially since ecco made all the cops in the gameworthless.

This is pure bullshit because of my last point. You had zero knowledge of any sanity variations when Grandi claimed.

DGK2000
May 3, 2007

Hotel Soap is super proud of his little perfumed balls that never get dirty or stinky

Quandary posted:

Thats exactly distancing. Putting constant pressure on someone but never enough to get them lynched.


No, it's not. Distancing is when you make a few points on them and drop it. It's like you have no idea what the word means.

Quandary
Jan 29, 2008

I pledge allegiance to the Crimson and Cream

DGK2000 posted:

This is pure bullshit because of my last point. You had zero knowledge of any sanity variations when Grandi claimed.

I didn't have any knowledge when Grandi claimed. I only realized sanity was an issue when I got a scum read on him and he flipped naive and town when I put it together. I have no idea what lie you're trying to catch me in here.

DGK2000
May 3, 2007

Hotel Soap is super proud of his little perfumed balls that never get dirty or stinky

Quandary posted:

I didn't have any knowledge when Grandi claimed. I only realized sanity was an issue when I got a scum read on him and he flipped naive and town when I put it together. I have no idea what lie you're trying to catch me in here.

Im saying that if you were actually a paranoid cop, you would have counter claimed Grandicap, because your role PM said YOU were the cop.

Dead Cow
Nov 3, 2009

Passion makes the world go round.
Love just makes it a safer place.


DGK2000 posted:

Im saying that if you were actually a paranoid cop, you would have counter claimed Grandicap, because your role PM said YOU were the cop.

Oh yeah, especially if he got a scum on Grandi

DGK2000
May 3, 2007

Hotel Soap is super proud of his little perfumed balls that never get dirty or stinky

Dead Cow posted:

Oh yeah, especially if he got a scum on Grandi



So, give up?

Gridlocked
Aug 2, 2014

MR. STUPID MORON
WITH AN UGLY FACE
AND A BIG BUTT
AND HIS BUTT SMELLS
AND HE LIKES TO KISS
HIS OWN BUTT
by Roger Hargreaves


Dead Cow posted:

Please, hammer Quandary and have the town win.

Now see this is where I am stumped.

If I vote for you and QPQ votes as DGK reckons he will then you get the lynch you want anyway.

If I vote for Quandary and he flips good, then you just got a lynch without QPQ's involvement. It seems like you are trying to do this. Why?

Quandary
Jan 29, 2008

I pledge allegiance to the Crimson and Cream

Might help you guys to read a bit as well.

Quandary posted:

Alright, might as well claim since I'm pretty sure my role is worthless. My flavor name is Ezra Noor, and I'm a cop, though I'm fairly confident I'm a paranoid cop. My role pm also mentions that I grew up with a brother who I learned all my detective skills with so there may be other cops in the game, which is why I wasn't jumping up and down to attack Grandi day 2 when he claimed.

N1 I investigated Shanakin and got a scum result, and N2 I investigated Grandi and got a scum result as well, but when he flipped town and naive, I realized I'm probably the paranoid counterpart to his role. The only way that wouldn't be true is if Grandi was hit by a mafia framer or something, but that seems unlikely and occams razor says I'm probably paranoid. This is also why I've been pushing Shanakin so hard, though obviously it's not trustworthy now. N1 I investigated Shanakin honestly because it was the first name to jump out to me - as you guys know I wasn't around D1 so I kinda picked a name out of a hat. N2 I investigated Grandi because despite what my pm said, there was no guarantee there was another cop or if there was about their alignment.

Now that I can't trust my investigation on Shan, I need to go re-read. I trust the mason crew right now - if they were all scum that means we'd have at least 5 scum in 13 players (since 2 already flipped), which is ridiculous, so the only thing that's possible is that they're town. I need to go re-read DC, Gridlocked, and Shan to see where I think the last scum is.

Also I investigated Grandi N2 in response to his claim, I hadn't gotten a scum result on him at the point where he claimed.

Dead Cow
Nov 3, 2009

Passion makes the world go round.
Love just makes it a safer place.


##unvote

Quandary
Jan 29, 2008

I pledge allegiance to the Crimson and Cream

Im assuming Grandi got the same message about there being other cops, but obviously didn't mention it. I'm assuming this also played a role in him claiming so early as he figured he wasn't the only cop.

Dead Cow
Nov 3, 2009

Passion makes the world go round.
Love just makes it a safer place.


Quandary posted:

Might help you guys to read a bit as well.


Also I investigated Grandi N2 in response to his claim, I hadn't gotten a scum result on him at the point where he claimed.

Then it's gridlock

Gridlocked
Aug 2, 2014

MR. STUPID MORON
WITH AN UGLY FACE
AND A BIG BUTT
AND HIS BUTT SMELLS
AND HE LIKES TO KISS
HIS OWN BUTT
by Roger Hargreaves


Dead Cow posted:

Oh yeah, especially if he got a scum on Grandi

Quandary claimed he investigated Grandi on night 2. He had no way of knowing he was the paranoid cop before that. He was able to deduce that from the fact the returned scum results on both investigations, the guy he investigated was in fact a cop and that that cop was a naive cop which let him deduce that he must be the paranoid opposite.

Also

DGK2000 posted:

Im saying that if you were actually a paranoid cop, you would have counter claimed Grandicap, because your role PM said YOU were the cop.

It would have said he was A cop role not THE cop role. Unless cops get to know each other at the start? Or unless Ecco played set this up slightly differently to what I have been lead to believe is the norm.

DGK2000
May 3, 2007

Hotel Soap is super proud of his little perfumed balls that never get dirty or stinky

Quandary posted:

Might help you guys to read a bit as well.


Also I investigated Grandi N2 in response to his claim, I hadn't gotten a scum result on him at the point where he claimed.

I'm assuming you're bullshitting, because it's pretty easy to add that well after a cop flip.

Dead Cow
Nov 3, 2009

Passion makes the world go round.
Love just makes it a safer place.


I went back and saw that Quandary cased Shan right after day 2 opened, that's why I unvoted.

Gridlocked
Aug 2, 2014

MR. STUPID MORON
WITH AN UGLY FACE
AND A BIG BUTT
AND HIS BUTT SMELLS
AND HE LIKES TO KISS
HIS OWN BUTT
by Roger Hargreaves


Dead Cow posted:

Then it's gridlock

It's not meeeeee.

Dead Cow
Nov 3, 2009

Passion makes the world go round.
Love just makes it a safer place.


Gridlocked posted:

It's not meeeeee.

And it's not me

DGK2000
May 3, 2007

Hotel Soap is super proud of his little perfumed balls that never get dirty or stinky

Grandicap posted:

It is still holiday weekend and I am only reading in the barest of senses, but there are more votes than I am comfortable with flying at DGK. This is a terrible idea with a flipped doc already, but.



I am a Cop.
N1 I investigated DGK and got a TOWN result.

I planned on making a case somewhere else after holiday weekend ended and moved the thread off of DGK with my fabulous mafia abilities, but since I am only going to be around in the barest of senses I think there would have been a good chance he would have been lynched before I got around to it. So, I'm taking the easy way out and claiming. Please look elsewhere.

No, he wasn't going to be around much.

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Gridlocked
Aug 2, 2014

MR. STUPID MORON
WITH AN UGLY FACE
AND A BIG BUTT
AND HIS BUTT SMELLS
AND HE LIKES TO KISS
HIS OWN BUTT
by Roger Hargreaves


Dead Cow posted:

And it's not me

Cooooooould be QPQ?

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