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  • Locked thread
so-i-creep-yeah
May 11, 2015
Not sure what possessed me, but I decided to open a thread and see if we can get a discussion going about my and others' experience of being in the closet.

I'm a 30 year old man, living in the southwestern United States, come from a working class, multiracial background, single, and a homosexual. I've been in the closet (for the most part) nearly my entire life.

I'd say there are two general ways of going about a life in the closet, and I've done both:

The first is to create an act, to actively pretend that you're straight. I've pretended to be interested in women, to find them sexually attractive (this is harder than it might sound, and not necessarily for the reasons you might think. I eventually had to concoct a profile of what my 'type' of woman was in order to keep my story straight (no pun intended)). I've had relationships with women (they were frequent and shallow, for reasons you can probably extrapolate). I've attended social gatherings and maintained friendships I wasn't really interested in in order to not come off suspicious. This was pretty much me through my high school and college years.

The second is omission. You don't put on an act, necessarily, you just go about your life and you just never bring up your sex/love life (or in my case, my current sex life; I could at least talk about some of my past relationships). This more or less describes how I've been handling things for the last 6-7 years or so. It's a lot easier (especially as an adult as more people you meet are prone to mind their business) and while a little bit lonelier, having a 'fake' social life really wasn't much better. I actually like being alone quite often; I like other people but keeping up a social life feels like a burden to me, sometimes even a chore. I just got really, really tired of doing things I didn't want to do. At least now I feel like I can relax a bit. The downside to this one is that, even as an adult, I get the feeling that I come off aloof or asocial, and generally just a little... weird. Though that could just be paranoia.

I'll get what I think might be some of the more obvious questions out of the way:

Have you ever told anyone?
I've told my three closest family members: an older brother, a younger brother about two years my junior, and a cousin who was like a younger brother to me. I've also told a select few friends and by extension some of our mutual acquaintances. I'm generally more comfortable telling this with newer friends or even random new people I meet: I guess my subconscious rule of thumb is that I'm mostly keeping it from the people who knew me from college and prior who had gotten to know me during my 'act the part' phase, and I generally don't want it to get too far out there to the point where it would reach these friends/family. Sometimes I'm more comfortable confiding in strangers than I am with people that I'm "close" with.

Do you plan on ever coming out completely?
I do anticipate a future where people I know generally know which way I swing, but I don't have any concrete plans to actively come out.

People probably already know
That's not a question, but OK. I'm actually fine with the idea that people might know without me telling them. I'd actually prefer if people sort of just 'figured it out'.

So why not just come out? Especially since being gay is becoming more and more accepted?
Honestly, it's not even about being gay anymore. It's more about... not being able to admit to people that I've known forever that I've been lying to them the entire time we've 'known' each other. I used to fantasize about faking my death, flying to a place where no one would recognize me and start a new life fresh. I don't think about this anymore, and as the years go on things get easier: just turning 30 has given me a new perspective - I mean, I was just a kid, really. I did what I felt like I had to do. At this point I'm more in the closet about being in the closet.

I'll leave it there for now, hopefully someone finds this an interesting topic. Being in the closet is something that sounds simple but winds up effecting almost every part of your life and messes with your head. Questions/comments, feel free.

so-i-creep-yeah fucked around with this message at 05:55 on May 12, 2015

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BlindSite
Feb 8, 2009

Do you ever think you're kind of giving this too much thought? Why not just be who you are and ignore everything else? The only people who're going to think less of you for keeping your sexuality a secret are probably going to be pretty poo poo people with no empathy anyway and most of your friends probably won't give a poo poo and just be happy that you're happy. At the end of the day you're not going to get another go 'round might as well live your life.

A friend of mine came out in the last couple of years, until that point he'd always sworn he was straight and even dated a woman or two. When he finally came out and started dating a dude the biggest reaction was probably one guy who said "ha, knew you liked dick" and that was about it. It's not as though any of us were angry he'd been closeted more just felt bad that he didn't think he could be open with us.


One thing I am curious of though, I've been guilty myself and I've heard people who're pretty accepting of all genders, races, sexualities etc of occasionally jokingly calling someone a "fag" or saying "that's gay" in place of "that's lame". I guess the whole south park episode on the issue kind of sums that one up in terms of not realising its insensitive but it's not meant in a hateful way to anyone gay (yes before SJW jump on me here, I know that doesn't make it ok). Is that something that gives you the shits or offends you or does it not bother you?

Canine Blues Arooo
Jan 7, 2008

when you think about it...i'm the first girl you ever spent the night with

Grimey Drawer

BlindSite posted:

One thing I am curious of though, I've been guilty myself and I've heard people who're pretty accepting of all genders, races, sexualities etc of occasionally jokingly calling someone a "fag" or saying "that's gay" in place of "that's lame". I guess the whole south park episode on the issue kind of sums that one up in terms of not realising its insensitive but it's not meant in a hateful way to anyone gay (yes before SJW jump on me here, I know that doesn't make it ok). Is that something that gives you the shits or offends you or does it not bother you?

I'm a dude in the same boat the OP is, opting for the 'Omission' path. My family by in large wouldn't approve much of my sexuality, so to avoid drama, I just avoid the topic. 3 of my closest friends know, and that's probably the way it will stay for the foreseeable future.

Anyway, this question kind of bugs me because I don't think there will ever be a consensus, but just a series of data points. I personally don't care about the language one uses as long as it's not actively used as an insult to a person or a sexuality. Context matters and the 'That's gay' vs 'That's lame' scenario is a really good example of where I feel it's completely inoffensive. More importantly, it's not worth policing that language. I feel like the biggest success the gay community has had is that it's approached universal acceptance at a rapid pace over the last 20 years and continues to do so. The community has work to do left on the 'equal rights' front, but we are getting there, and it's quickly become an issue of 'when' and less of an issue of 'if'. I feel this is largely the result of the gay community accepting the help, friendship and support of those around them at face value. The inclusionary response from both the gay community and the straight community that supports the gay rights movement has together paved the way for gay acceptance to be hugely successful in a relatively short period of time, which leads us to your question.

If you start policing the language of people, you are drawing a line in the sand and saying, 'this isn't acceptable. I don't accept this language'. In doing so, you are saying, 'change, or you don't really count as a support for our cause'. That kind of mindset is extremely dangerous and if we aggressively police language, we risk alienating people who would otherwise support us. To that end, I think it's really important for any social movement to think very hard about what terms they absolutely do not want to hear, because if you are going to spend all your time telling people to not use what amounts to trivial language, you'll quickly find yourself with fewer casual supporters and left with nothing but the diehard, which is not an effective way of winning the acceptance of the masses.

I think hard-core feminism is extremely guilty of this and it's partially why there seems to be a non-trivial amount of backlash against the movement and the people involved with the movement.

I also think this is also where the transgender community needs to be exceedingly careful when picking their battles. Expecting people to use the correct pronouns for the gender you identify with is probably a battle worth having. Expecting people to immediately learn A complete set of new gender-neutral pronouns is probably a bad idea. The entire point of a social movement is to be as inclusionary as possible. It shouldn't matter if it's a member of your community, someone who is passionate about social issues or someone who just thinks there is a wrong that's worth right-ing, they should be invited to be a part of your group. Taking offense to someone because they don't use all the pronouns on that list is a great way of pushing someone from, 'I want to see your community treated as equals and will at least recognize that there is a social injustice here' into 'I don't care about that movement' or worse, 'I don't like the people in that movement'.

There is a cost to policing language and that those in the various communities need to be very careful about what, and how much, they police.

Canine Blues Arooo fucked around with this message at 08:42 on May 12, 2015

Scudworth
Jan 1, 2005

When life gives you lemons, you clone those lemons, and make super lemons.

Dinosaur Gum

so-i-creep-yeah posted:

So why not just come out? Especially since being gay is becoming more and more accepted?
Honestly, it's not even about being gay anymore. It's more about... not being able to admit to people that I've known forever that I've been lying to them the entire time we've 'known' each other. I used to fantasize about faking my death, flying to a place where no one would recognize me and start a new life fresh. I don't think about this anymore, and as the years go on things get easier: just turning 30 has given me a new perspective - I mean, I was just a kid, really. I did what I felt like I had to do. At this point I'm more in the closet about being in the closet.

Dude, I know this is your personal journey and not an easy subject, but this is crazy. Unless you're in a position where your family or job is in peril if you were openly gay, you're just torturing yourself for no reason here. And the worst part is that you seem to know that :(

I can only offer you an anecdotal example:
Within the past 5 years, two members of my extended friend groups have dated and then married same-sex people despite them never (at least openly) dating or even talking about being attracted to the same gender. There was no big sit down COMING OUT drama or discussion. They just worked the person into their life in the same casual way as any other relationship. "Hey everyone this is my boyfriend Ray."
No need to explain it or ask for forgiveness. Any decent people will maybe be confused for a few moments (seriously, just minutes) and then shrug and move on. I'm sure with their families it would have been A Thing, and I can't comment on that because I wouldn't know, but to us it was just like "Oh I guess he's gay now. Or always. Whatever."

If anything I felt concerned that they'd possibly been struggling with this, not that they were "lying" to us all this time. No one in their right mind who enjoys you as a person would think of this as "lying" to anyone but yourself.

MonoAus
Nov 5, 2012

BlindSite posted:

One thing I am curious of though, I've been guilty myself and I've heard people who're pretty accepting of all genders, races, sexualities etc of occasionally jokingly calling someone a "fag" or saying "that's gay" in place of "that's lame". I guess the whole south park episode on the issue kind of sums that one up in terms of not realising its insensitive but it's not meant in a hateful way to anyone gay (yes before SJW jump on me here, I know that doesn't make it ok). Is that something that gives you the shits or offends you or does it not bother you?

Like the other poster said there is no consensus. For me its not hugely offensive but more vaguely off-putting. If someone says it a lot I do notice but I won't be crying myself to sleep at night over it. I think as a general rule maybe it's better to just avoid saying it? I don't know.

That said, my mates keep thinking they need to apologise to me any time "fag" is mentioned but I guess I don't see it as a big enough problem that it warrants an apology from them. I have more a problem if its someone I don't know.


Scudworth posted:

I can only offer you an anecdotal example:
Within the past 5 years, two members of my extended friend groups have dated and then married same-sex people despite them never (at least openly) dating or even talking about being attracted to the same gender. There was no big sit down COMING OUT drama or discussion. They just worked the person into their life in the same casual way as any other relationship. "Hey everyone this is my boyfriend Ray."
No need to explain it or ask for forgiveness. Any decent people will maybe be confused for a few moments (seriously, just minutes) and then shrug and move on. I'm sure with their families it would have been A Thing, and I can't comment on that because I wouldn't know, but to us it was just like "Oh I guess he's gay now. Or always. Whatever."

This is my plan, except with my family!

so-i-creep-yeah
May 11, 2015

BlindSite posted:

Do you ever think you're kind of giving this too much thought? Why not just be who you are and ignore everything else? The only people who're going to think less of you for keeping your sexuality a secret are probably going to be pretty poo poo people with no empathy anyway and most of your friends probably won't give a poo poo and just be happy that you're happy. At the end of the day you're not going to get another go 'round might as well live your life.

A friend of mine came out in the last couple of years, until that point he'd always sworn he was straight and even dated a woman or two. When he finally came out and started dating a dude the biggest reaction was probably one guy who said "ha, knew you liked dick" and that was about it. It's not as though any of us were angry he'd been closeted more just felt bad that he didn't think he could be open with us.


One thing I am curious of though, I've been guilty myself and I've heard people who're pretty accepting of all genders, races, sexualities etc of occasionally jokingly calling someone a "fag" or saying "that's gay" in place of "that's lame". I guess the whole south park episode on the issue kind of sums that one up in terms of not realising its insensitive but it's not meant in a hateful way to anyone gay (yes before SJW jump on me here, I know that doesn't make it ok). Is that something that gives you the shits or offends you or does it not bother you?

"I'm overthinking it" certainly has crossed my mind, and is one of the reasons I stopped actively projecting a phony straight life. That in and of itself was like a 'coming out' for me in a way.

While complete disclosure would cause a bit of drama in my family (I'd be the only known gay person in the history of my family on either side), the real roadblock to that is a very personal psychological one. I wouldn't be just admitting to being gay, I'd be admitting to a decade's worth of related lies and deception that grew like a snowball rolling downhill. It's admitting to being an imposter. I've done my best in recent years to disentangle and distance myself from the pretend life I'd created, but at a point where I'm ready to admit it to everyone. Not yet.

It doesn't help that my coming out to my brothers didn't go 100% smoothly (I told them separately, at different times). At the time - this was both about eight years ago - I was just happy they didn't disown me on the spot, but my older brother eventually made it pretty clear he wanted nothing to do with this part of my life and didn't want to hear about it. our relationship is cordial, but he doesn't seem to understand why I don't talk to him as much anymore. My younger brother was very unsettled by the idea that someone he'd been close to since birth turned out he didn't actually know very well at all. He came around eventually, but his reaction helped fuel my complex about being a fraud.

(In contrast, I told my cousin last year and that went without a hitch).

As for your question on using 'gay' as an insult, in my school days it didn't necessarily bother me, partly because kids just say lovely things and because I went to high school in the midwest in the 90s and college in the south right after: homophobia was pervasive to the point where I just accepted it as a part of life.

These days I probably still wouldn't be bothered to see a teen use 'gay' to mean 'bad', but I don't think I'd be fully comfortable around someone over 25 who still talked that way; I'd either find him immature, or that he knew exactly what he was saying and meant it

Scudworth
Jan 1, 2005

When life gives you lemons, you clone those lemons, and make super lemons.

Dinosaur Gum

so-i-creep-yeah posted:

I wouldn't be just admitting to being gay, I'd be admitting to a decade's worth of related lies and deception that grew like a snowball rolling downhill. It's admitting to being an imposter. I've done my best in recent years to disentangle and distance myself from the pretend life I'd created, but at a point where I'm ready to admit it to everyone. Not yet.


You keep using words like "fraud" and "imposter". You have a serious complex going on here and again- you know it.

This is not how reasonable people will see it. At worst they'll just assume you're bi and have been choosing dudes lately. Does that bother you? That being the worst? Because you don't have to explain yourself. People understand that there's a spectrum at work here and I don't know a single gay person that didn't try straight relationships in their youth.
You will not be admitting to some vast conspiracy.

Jeza
Feb 13, 2011

The cries of the dead are terrible indeed; you should try not to hear them.
What happens when you find somebody you want to spend the rest of your life with? Or is that not part of the plan?

Choco1980
Feb 22, 2013

I fell in love with a Video Nasty
Count me in as another person who lives in the closet by omission. I'm bi, I've always been bi. As soon as I started noticing the girls while growing up, I started noticing the boys. However, my family undoubtedly assumes I'm straight because I've never had a male relationship that would come to their attention, and due to their nosiness, I feel it's none of their business who I sleep with. (I don't think it'd even be something they'd disapprove of, my step-brother is gay and no one cares) Well now I'm in a committed relationship with a trans man (born a woman, wants to be a man) and for all intents and purposes, I consider him my boyfriend. To make matters worse, that's not even the bottom of the rabbit hole because I'm also polyamorous, and he is happily married. To a man. I have custody of my son for two months in the summer, and he wants to spend time together the three of us. It will be hard to not discuss these events with my folks as they are, as I said, very nosy, and will undoubtedly want to know more. I have a feeling some of the cats will be out of the bag very soon.

so-i-creep-yeah
May 11, 2015

Scudworth posted:

You keep using words like "fraud" and "imposter". You have a serious complex going on here and again- you know it.

This is not how reasonable people will see it. At worst they'll just assume you're bi and have been choosing dudes lately. Does that bother you? That being the worst? Because you don't have to explain yourself. People understand that there's a spectrum at work here and I don't know a single gay person that didn't try straight relationships in their youth.
You will not be admitting to some vast conspiracy.

I do understand where you're coming from and appreciate that you want to be helpful. I think most advice on this, if it's of the "just come out, nobody will care" variety probably aren't going to have the intended effect and it's probably best to just keep this thread to general questions/comments.

You're right that it's all a big mental complex I have. Others' reactions are only a small part of what keeps me in the closet at this point. It's mostly about me and my self-esteem that's been whittled down to nothing over the years. Pointing out how silly it is that I'm in the closet isn't going to motivate me to come out--I'm just going to feel silly and stupid and want to retreat further behind my only defense mechanism.

I hate myself for what I put myself through. I hate myself for lying to everyone, for hiding and being pathetic and cowardly, for leading people on, for doing things I didn't want to do, for being friends with people I didn't care for, for having sex with people I wasn't attracted to, for devoting the years of my youth to a stupid charade. I hate myself for hating myself. The only thing I have is that I don't have to face the humiliation of revealing this horrible part of myself to the world if I don't want to.

Anything that makes me feel silly, stupid, or more shameful about this (even if it's not anyone's intention) is just going to set me back further. What I need to be able to do is forgive myself. The only thing that's ever helped is time and perspective; like I said, turning 30 has let me look back on things with fresh eyes. I hate myself less now than I have in a very long time. It takes time. I'll get there. I think.

MonoAus
Nov 5, 2012

Scudworth posted:

You keep using words like "fraud" and "imposter". You have a serious complex going on here and again- you know it.

This is not how reasonable people will see it. At worst they'll just assume you're bi and have been choosing dudes lately. Does that bother you? That being the worst? Because you don't have to explain yourself. People understand that there's a spectrum at work here and I don't know a single gay person that didn't try straight relationships in their youth.
You will not be admitting to some vast conspiracy.

I think you're trying to help here but there are a few things that aren't quite true. It is true that reasonable people will see the situation for what it is and not make judgements that the OP is worried about but you're wrong about how people in general could react.

Perhaps you're lucky that you're surrounded by smart, rational people but unfortunately a lot of us aren't.

In my experience "People" don't understand there is a spectrum. Sometimes it seems straight people barely understand the concept of what it means if someone is "gay", it's routinely conflated with what music you should like, where you should go, how you should act etc. You're giving people way too much credit here.

Also, I'm a gay person and I didn't try straight relationships in my youth.



My only advice to you, as someone who shares some of what you're feeling, is that you're the only person here that knows your situation is you. You're in the best position to make the call on coming out or not. The right answer isn't always obvious or the easiest.

MonoAus fucked around with this message at 02:10 on May 13, 2015

buckets of buckets
Apr 8, 2012

CHECK OUT MY AWESOME POSTS
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https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3788178&pagenumber=405&perpage=40#post474195694

https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3831643&pagenumber=5&perpage=40#post475694634

Choco1980 posted:

Count me in as another person who lives in the closet by omission. I'm bi, I've always been bi. As soon as I started noticing the girls while growing up, I started noticing the boys. However, my family undoubtedly assumes I'm straight because I've never had a male relationship that would come to their attention, and due to their nosiness, I feel it's none of their business who I sleep with. (I don't think it'd even be something they'd disapprove of, my step-brother is gay and no one cares) Well now I'm in a committed relationship with a trans man (born a woman, wants to be a man) and for all intents and purposes, I consider him my boyfriend. To make matters worse, that's not even the bottom of the rabbit hole because I'm also polyamorous, and he is happily married. To a man. I have custody of my son for two months in the summer, and he wants to spend time together the three of us. It will be hard to not discuss these events with my folks as they are, as I said, very nosy, and will undoubtedly want to know more. I have a feeling some of the cats will be out of the bag very soon.

lol

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

Morby
Sep 6, 2007
You're the only one who knows your situation, so I wish you the best of luck. The only comment I have is that you've got this one life to live. I've found that living authentically has been best for me. It hasn't always been easy or pleasant and there are lots of setbacks from time to time, but we are all (my family, partner and I) adjusting.

Talmonis
Jun 24, 2012
The fairy of forgiveness has removed your red text.
One thing I wonder is, have you ever wanted someone close to you to ask if you were gay? My best friend of 17 years (we're in our 30's) has been increasingly withdrawn from our core group of friends of late, and I worry that it's because he's afraid we'll judge him for being gay. I want to ask him since I've always thought so, but worry that he'd be really offended or embarrassed. I want him to come back around more, so I can ask him to be the godfather of my kid.

GORDON
Jan 1, 2006

by Fluffdaddy
I made too many decisions in my life based on what other people and family thought would make me happy. I dumped the girls they didn't like. I married the one they disliked the least. I went to the school they wanted me to go to, studied what they thought I should study. Your early 20's kind of suck for decision making.

Eventually I moved several states away from them for a new job, and became my own person, and did what the hell I wanted to do. I often got disapproval from 700 miles away, but at that point it was easy to put it out of my mind.... until eventually their opinions stopped mattering at all. My own decisions ending up being good ones, and I was finally happy, and my own man.

They say you are never hated as much as by the people in your home town. Get away. Let it go. Be free.

Good luck.

Choco1980
Feb 22, 2013

I fell in love with a Video Nasty

Welp, clearly I was mistaken about this thread being a place to talk about issues with living a closeted life without being made fun of.

buckets of buckets
Apr 8, 2012

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https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3818944&pagenumber=196&perpage=40#post472627338

https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3788178&pagenumber=405&perpage=40#post474195694

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nope, nothing funny about a polyamorous, D&D postin' man, who happens to be in a relationship with a possibly gay-married boygirl. Being amused by that would be morally reprehensible

Keg
Sep 22, 2014

so-i-creep-yeah posted:

Not sure what possessed me, but I decided to open a thread and see if we can get a discussion going about my and others' experience of being in the closet.

I'm a 30 year old man, living in the southwestern United States, come from a working class, multiracial background, single, and a homosexual. I've been in the closet (for the most part) nearly my entire life.

I'd say there are two general ways of going about a life in the closet, and I've done both:

The first is to create an act, to actively pretend that you're straight. I've pretended to be interested in women, to find them sexually attractive (this is harder than it might sound, and not necessarily for the reasons you might think. I eventually had to concoct a profile of what my 'type' of woman was in order to keep my story straight (no pun intended)). I've had relationships with women (they were frequent and shallow, for reasons you can probably extrapolate). I've attended social gatherings and maintained friendships I wasn't really interested in in order to not come off suspicious. This was pretty much me through my high school and college years.

The second is omission. You don't put on an act, necessarily, you just go about your life and you just never bring up your sex/love life (or in my case, my current sex life; I could at least talk about some of my past relationships). This more or less describes how I've been handling things for the last 6-7 years or so. It's a lot easier (especially as an adult as more people you meet are prone to mind their business) and while a little bit lonelier, having a 'fake' social life really wasn't much better. I actually like being alone quite often; I like other people but keeping up a social life feels like a burden to me, sometimes even a chore. I just got really, really tired of doing things I didn't want to do. At least now I feel like I can relax a bit. The downside to this one is that, even as an adult, I get the feeling that I come off aloof or asocial, and generally just a little... weird. Though that could just be paranoia.

I'll get what I think might be some of the more obvious questions out of the way:

Have you ever told anyone?
I've told my three closest family members: an older brother, a younger brother about two years my junior, and a cousin who was like a younger brother to me. I've also told a select few friends and by extension some of our mutual acquaintances. I'm generally more comfortable telling this with newer friends or even random new people I meet: I guess my subconscious rule of thumb is that I'm mostly keeping it from the people who knew me from college and prior who had gotten to know me during my 'act the part' phase, and I generally don't want it to get too far out there to the point where it would reach these friends/family. Sometimes I'm more comfortable confiding in strangers than I am with people that I'm "close" with.

Do you plan on ever coming out completely?
I do anticipate a future where people I know generally know which way I swing, but I don't have any concrete plans to actively come out.

People probably already know
That's not a question, but OK. I'm actually fine with the idea that people might know without me telling them. I'd actually prefer if people sort of just 'figured it out'.

So why not just come out? Especially since being gay is becoming more and more accepted?
Honestly, it's not even about being gay anymore. It's more about... not being able to admit to people that I've known forever that I've been lying to them the entire time we've 'known' each other. I used to fantasize about faking my death, flying to a place where no one would recognize me and start a new life fresh. I don't think about this anymore, and as the years go on things get easier: just turning 30 has given me a new perspective - I mean, I was just a kid, really. I did what I felt like I had to do. At this point I'm more in the closet about being in the closet.

I'll leave it there for now, hopefully someone finds this an interesting topic. Being in the closet is something that sounds simple but winds up effecting almost every part of your life and messes with your head. Questions/comments, feel free.

Fag

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

MonoAus
Nov 5, 2012


Cunts.

Ice Phisherman
Apr 12, 2007

Swimming upstream
into the sunset



Choco1980 posted:

Welp, clearly I was mistaken about this thread being a place to talk about issues with living a closeted life without being made fun of.

Not going to make fun of you, but that whole relationship sounds like there is some sort of current of crazy in it. By themselves I could give it a pass, but the confluence of a relationship with a married person, poly and trans sounds like you're on the crazy train and there are no brakes. You might be into crazy and if so that's cool, but that's just how I read it.

Anyway, I'm a bi man. I like pretty men and my tastes run that way, but I've never had the chance to do much beyond flirting. I did come out to a friend of mine who is married and I recoiled in horror as he made a pass at me. That was the first and last time I did it.

Perfectly fine with women though and thankful for it as the stigma of being gay is pretty awful. Especially since I live in the heart of the bible belt.

buckets of buckets
Apr 8, 2012

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no gendered insults please :angel:

so-i-creep-yeah
May 11, 2015

Jeza posted:

What happens when you find somebody you want to spend the rest of your life with? Or is that not part of the plan?

That's a "we'll cross that bridge when we get there" scenario.

Talmonis posted:

One thing I wonder is, have you ever wanted someone close to you to ask if you were gay? My best friend of 17 years (we're in our 30's) has been increasingly withdrawn from our core group of friends of late, and I worry that it's because he's afraid we'll judge him for being gay. I want to ask him since I've always thought so, but worry that he'd be really offended or embarrassed. I want him to come back around more, so I can ask him to be the godfather of my kid.

This depends on a lot of things. For the most part, I actually would prefer it for a close friend to ask rather than have me try to find some opportunity to come out (in fact, that's sort of my 'policy' at the moment - if someone wants to know, they'll ask, and I'll tell them). I can also see myself, if the topic comes out super out-of-the-blue, denying it almost by instinct and then later feeling obligated to keep the lie going. If you want to go through with it I'd probably focus almost exclusively on your concern about him being so withdrawn, and maybe bring it up like, "you know you could talk to me about anything right? I don't care if you're on drugs, if you're gay, got an eating disorder, whatever, we can talk about anything."

How sure are you about him being gay?

thrakkorzog
Nov 16, 2007
Have you ever considered moving to a big city where being gay isn't that big of a deal? Even in the Midwest there are cities that are known to be gay friendly.

so-i-creep-yeah
May 11, 2015
^^ I do live in a big city. I have considered moving somewhere where my family doesn't reside. It's tough because I actually really do like where I live otherwise.

FreudianSlippers
Apr 12, 2010

Shooting and Fucking
are the same thing!

Are you deep enough to be finding Christmas presents?

RacistGuidingLight
Apr 5, 2009

by FactsAreUseless
What you haven't done is laid out the perceived repercussions of coming out, as a thirty rear end old man. Is there any threat of estrangement or loss of employment?

n8r
Jul 3, 2003

I helped Lowtax become a cyborg and all I got was this lousy avatar
I'd wager 99% of the people that know you well at all probably already know.

Choco1980
Feb 22, 2013

I fell in love with a Video Nasty

Ice Phisherman posted:

Not going to make fun of you, but that whole relationship sounds like there is some sort of current of crazy in it. By themselves I could give it a pass, but the confluence of a relationship with a married person, poly and trans sounds like you're on the crazy train and there are no brakes. You might be into crazy and if so that's cool, but that's just how I read it.

Honestly, it's one of the more boring and drama-free relationships I've been in. mostly it's just "hey it's date day, come over and watch netflix and eat pizza with me, there may be butt touching involved."

Meanwhile, I recently also got out of a relationship with a woman that is as straight as you can get, and ultra feminine, and girly girly and all that, and she was nothing but drama and crazy, to the point where I'm still dealing with its flotsam and jetsam.

lizardman
Jun 30, 2007

by R. Guyovich
EDIT: (OP here, in case there's any confusion)

RacistGuidingLight posted:

What you haven't done is laid out the perceived repercussions of coming out, as a thirty rear end old man. Is there any threat of estrangement or loss of employment?

The repercussions are about 10% family/friend drama and 90% my own personal humiliation at revealing that I've been a closet case my whole life.

***

Listen, (and this is to everyone reading the thread, not just who I'm replying to), I realize this is SomethingAwful.com and being snarky is just what we all do, but I'm exposing the most vulnerable side of myself to you guys. I realize being in the closet is pathetic... and that's exactly what keeps me from admitting it to anyone. Even if you're trying to help, even if you're 'just loving around', even if you think I'm being an idiot for putting something this personal on the forums, you're not going to be doing anybody any favors by being dismissive, critical (even if you're going for constructive criticism), or teasing. I'm not even necessarily looking for advice: this is an Ask/Tell thread, not an E/N thread. I guess I'm just asking for you guys to cool it a little. I've seen you all do it, I know you can.

You can't shame someone out of the closet--it's likely the entire reason they're in it in the first place.

EDIT: AAAAAAAAHAHAHAHA I just posted this on my usual account. Well, I really wouldn't blame you for making fun of me for THIS.

lizardman fucked around with this message at 01:02 on May 15, 2015

FreudianSlippers
Apr 12, 2010

Shooting and Fucking
are the same thing!

They all already know you're gay. When you come out the main response is going to be "We've known for years.".

lizardman
Jun 30, 2007

by R. Guyovich

FreudianSlippers posted:

They all already know you're gay. When you come out the main response is going to be "We've known for years.".

Okay. That's not really the point.

RacistGuidingLight
Apr 5, 2009

by FactsAreUseless

lizardman posted:

EDIT: (OP here, in case there's any confusion)


The repercussions are about 10% family/friend drama and 90% my own personal humiliation at revealing that I've been a closet case my whole life.

***

Listen, (and this is to everyone reading the thread, not just who I'm replying to), I realize this is SomethingAwful.com and being snarky is just what we all do, but I'm exposing the most vulnerable side of myself to you guys. I realize being in the closet is pathetic... and that's exactly what keeps me from admitting it to anyone. Even if you're trying to help, even if you're 'just loving around', even if you think I'm being an idiot for putting something this personal on the forums, you're not going to be doing anybody any favors by being dismissive, critical (even if you're going for constructive criticism), or teasing. I'm not even necessarily looking for advice: this is an Ask/Tell thread, not an E/N thread. I guess I'm just asking for you guys to cool it a little. I've seen you all do it, I know you can.

You can't shame someone out of the closet--it's likely the entire reason they're in it in the first place.

EDIT: AAAAAAAAHAHAHAHA I just posted this on my usual account. Well, I really wouldn't blame you for making fun of me for THIS.



What do you mean drama? Will there be a problem or will it be awkward? If the latter, then ya you should be embarrassed for being in the closet when you're thirty. Like, I'm Mister Don't Come Out. I couldn't talk to my dad for five years and it doesn't necessarily get better, cuz Pixar's Cartoon Candy and Smile factory doesn't have a job lined up and waiting for every homo. If you're just shy then I'm gonna be snarky.

lizardman
Jun 30, 2007

by R. Guyovich
Yes, it would be a problem with certain members of my family.

We're not talking about "just shyness". Decades worth of shame doesn't just magically resolve itself due to self-awareness. It takes time. I'm getting there - and I think I really am making progress since I'm more just mildly annoyed at your comments rather than taking them to heart and fleeing the thread in tears.

Shame isn't anything to gently caress with

quote:

Shame is often confused with guilt--an emotion you might experience as a result of a wrongdoing about which you might feel remorseful and wish to make amends. Where you will likely have an urge to admit guilt, or talk with others about a situation that left you with guilty feelings, it is much less likely that you will broadcast your shame. In fact, you'll most likely conceal what you feel because shame does not make a distinction between an action and the self.

I said before, this stopped being about just being gay quite a while ago.

MonoAus
Nov 5, 2012

FreudianSlippers posted:

They all already know you're gay. When you come out the main response is going to be "We've known for years.".

This isn't necessarily true. When I told my mates I was gay the response was "we had no idea - we feel really embarassed for all the insensitive things we've said about homos now".


RacistGuidingLight posted:

I couldn't talk to my dad for five years and it doesn't necessarily get better, cuz Pixar's Cartoon Candy and Smile factory doesn't have a job lined up and waiting for every homo.

What?

Talmonis
Jun 24, 2012
The fairy of forgiveness has removed your red text.

so-i-creep-yeah posted:

This depends on a lot of things. For the most part, I actually would prefer it for a close friend to ask rather than have me try to find some opportunity to come out (in fact, that's sort of my 'policy' at the moment - if someone wants to know, they'll ask, and I'll tell them). I can also see myself, if the topic comes out super out-of-the-blue, denying it almost by instinct and then later feeling obligated to keep the lie going. If you want to go through with it I'd probably focus almost exclusively on your concern about him being so withdrawn, and maybe bring it up like, "you know you could talk to me about anything right? I don't care if you're on drugs, if you're gay, got an eating disorder, whatever, we can talk about anything."

How sure are you about him being gay?

Maybe 70/30. If he's not he's got something else going on, like being asexual. He's talked to my parents about not sleeping with his ex girlfriend (as in, didn't want to despite feeling like it's expected, and her wanting to) and not knowing why.

thrakkorzog
Nov 16, 2007

lizardman posted:

EDIT: (OP here, in case there's any confusion)


The repercussions are about 10% family/friend drama and 90% my own personal humiliation at revealing that I've been a closet case my whole life.

***

Listen, (and this is to everyone reading the thread, not just who I'm replying to), I realize this is SomethingAwful.com and being snarky is just what we all do, but I'm exposing the most vulnerable side of myself to you guys. I realize being in the closet is pathetic... and that's exactly what keeps me from admitting it to anyone. Even if you're trying to help, even if you're 'just loving around', even if you think I'm being an idiot for putting something this personal on the forums, you're not going to be doing anybody any favors by being dismissive, critical (even if you're going for constructive criticism), or teasing. I'm not even necessarily looking for advice: this is an Ask/Tell thread, not an E/N thread. I guess I'm just asking for you guys to cool it a little. I've seen you all do it, I know you can.

You can't shame someone out of the closet--it's likely the entire reason they're in it in the first place.

EDIT: AAAAAAAAHAHAHAHA I just posted this on my usual account. Well, I really wouldn't blame you for making fun of me for THIS.

Here's the problem. You're being a drama queen about being gay.

I've had plenty of gay coworkers. Yeah, they're out and proud. I didn't give a poo poo about their sexual preferences, I really only cared if they sucked at their job, and I had to cover for them .

OK, so you don't want your parents to know you're gay, that's a fair issue.

But you want us to be sympathetic because you can't come out of the closet even when it's OK to step out of the closet, and everybody is sympathetic. poo poo, I'm a straight dude and my mom never met 75% of the women I've dated over the years.

Jeb Bush 2012
Apr 4, 2007

A mathematician, like a painter or poet, is a maker of patterns. If his patterns are more permanent than theirs, it is because they are made with ideas.
[ASK] A straight dude about how easy being gay is

Jeb Bush 2012 fucked around with this message at 19:52 on May 15, 2015

Sockmuppet
Aug 15, 2009

lizardman posted:

EDIT: AAAAAAAAHAHAHAHA I just posted this on my usual account. Well, I really wouldn't blame you for making fun of me for THIS.

You just came out to us :3: (I have no idea why, but I recognized your username and went "oh, I've seen that guy around from before I even made an account!")

I can only imagine the instant of panic you must've felt when you realised what you'd done, but how does it feel now? This was a pretty harmless dress rehersal for the real thing, since we're weirdo internet people you can get rid of by closing your browser, but maybe it could help you get a more realistic impression of how it's going to be in real life. Personally I'm notorious about building stuff up in my imagination, both the good and the bad things, but in my experience, worst case scenarios are pretty rare. It sounds like you're afraid of your minds exaggerated idea of how bad coming out is going to be, maybe it'd help if you sat down and tried to be honest with yourself about how likely the consequenses you fear, actually are.

(See, now I'm thinking "Oh my god, what if he's trolling and everyone can tell except me, I'm going to look like such an idiot if I make a serious post! I'd better not submit this" - while the reality is that none of you know me from Adam and vice versa, and the worst case scenario here is that some people I'm never going to meet will roll their eyes at me in the privacy of their own basement.)

lizardman
Jun 30, 2007

by R. Guyovich

thrakkorzog posted:

Here's the problem. You're being a drama queen about being gay.

I've had plenty of gay coworkers. Yeah, they're out and proud. I didn't give a poo poo about their sexual preferences, I really only cared if they sucked at their job, and I had to cover for them .

OK, so you don't want your parents to know you're gay, that's a fair issue.

But you want us to be sympathetic because you can't come out of the closet even when it's OK to step out of the closet, and everybody is sympathetic. poo poo, I'm a straight dude and my mom never met 75% of the women I've dated over the years.

I'm starting to think I should have named this thread "Ask me about having lived a fake life" or something. I really don't care if the average person thinks I'm gay. Hell, one of the reasons I'm not all that embarrassed about accidentally posting on my usual account is because I've already admitted on here that I'm gay. I just haven't been able to bring myself to admit to people from my past that I've lied to them for so long.

Weird analogy: say that for most of your life you told everyone in your life that you were Irish (actual Irish people reading, insert another nationality). You put on a fake Irish accent 24/7, you did stereotypical Irish things, dyed your hair and put on makeup to look more Irish, dated Irish folks (regardless if you were attracted to them or had any affection) just to keep up appearances, listened to music that came from Ireland regardless if you liked it, you went out drinking at pubs all the time even though it wasn't something you enjoyed doing because you thought it would make you seem more Irish.

Finally, one day you realize 'what the hell am I doing?' and you're finally dead-tired of pretending, and the whole thing was just so stupid and you can't believe you did it. Thing is, you have no one to turn to because nobody actually knows you. You're not even sure you know who you are yourself. Your entire life revolved around supposedly being Irish. You want to make honest friendships but you have no idea how to be honest. You're not sure what your interests are because you almost never did things because they interested you, you did them because you thought it was something an Irish person would do. You see old pictures and video of yourself and you're so mortally embarrassed at yourself: why did you waste your life doing something so stupid? You kind of hope you don't have to admit to people you meet "yeah, um, I used to pretend to be Irish. For years'. And you dread having to tell people you've 'known' for years that you're not really Irish and pretty much everything you've done was a lie (and in some cases that would mean admitting you never really loved them or were attracted to them ever).

It's such an absurd hypothetical, but I hope it helps some folks understand how rising gay acceptance doesn't by itself necessarily encourage someone to come out of the closet like flipping a lightswitch.

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Anne Whateley
Feb 11, 2007
:unsmith: i like nice words
Pretend you just realized you weren't Irish. "Oh my God I just found out I was adopted by an Irish couple but really I'm Italian!!!" People will be like "wow what are the odds" a little bit, but they won't care much.

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