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VBane
Oct 31, 2011


Whenever you ask yourself why Superman isn't getting involved, just assume Lex or Brainiac are up to some poo poo of equal or greater stakes and keeping him occupied.

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WarLocke
Jun 6, 2004

You are being watched. :allears:


Superman's not involved because the show is about Supergirl.

That's like wondering why Superman doesn't show up in Gotham and beat up the Joker in every Batman story.

Disposable Scud
Oct 13, 2012

Jesus, I've seen what you've done for the dinosaurs, and I want that for me.

Superman isn't involved because WB doesn't want to fully utilize the character in the television space because there is serious dosh to be made in movies.

Drifter
Oct 22, 2000

Belated Bear Witness


Soiled Meat

Obscurity posted:

The giant "Where the gently caress is Super-Man?" plot hole mess is turning me off and I haven't even watched the pilot yet. Hopefully the show explains why he isn't there, but from what you guys are all saying it sounds like they can't even try.

It's not a plot hole. People complaining about that poo poo seriously are loving spergs of the highest order.

It's a show called Supergirl. About Supergirl, not Superman. it'd be cool, narratively, to have him visit or whatever, but Jimmy seems to be the Superman mouthpiece they're using, so whatever.

Now, I think the MAIN plot is kinda weird that way, but not having superman in a supergirl show isn't an issue. It's all okay, though, and not having Superman in the show shouldn't be a factor about whether you watch the show or not.

Gyges
Aug 4, 2004

NOW NO ONE
RECOGNIZE HULK


More important that Superman, they've got Comet, right? I boycott the gently caress out of any Supergirl property that doesn't include Comet.

Drifter
Oct 22, 2000

Belated Bear Witness


Soiled Meat

Gyges posted:

More important that Superman, they've got Comet, right? I boycott the gently caress out of any Supergirl property that doesn't include Comet.

Comic Supergirl originally had a pet cat, Streaky - mutated by a rare form of Kryptonite.

Aphrodite
Jun 27, 2006



Gyges posted:

More important that Superman, they've got Comet, right? I boycott the gently caress out of any Supergirl property that doesn't include Comet.

She had sex with that horse so maybe don't put that on TV.

tsob
Sep 26, 2006

Chalalala~


Gyges posted:

More important that Superman, they've got Comet, right? I boycott the gently caress out of any Supergirl property that doesn't include Comet.

For a moment I thought you meant Captain Comet and got incredibly excited about the idea of a pulpy sci-fi hero on tv, then I remembered Comet was just a horse version of Krytpo, but even weirder. What I wouldn't give for a tv series with him, or possibly even better: Adam Strange that reveled in full Flash Gordon-esque glory.

Gyges
Aug 4, 2004

NOW NO ONE
RECOGNIZE HULK


Drifter posted:

Comic Supergirl originally had a pet cat, Streaky - mutated by a rare form of Kryptonite.

Yeah, but who wants to read about/watch a super catlady? Besides, everyone knows a super cat would be the real villain the whole time.

Pilot question
So for the last 12 years or whatever a Krytonian Supermax(gently caress this show if it ever plays the pun) population has been running around Earth. Is the DEO really so dumb as to not get Superman to help catch these guys, or is this a job big enough for a man, but ph balanced for a superwoman?

Also if they're all so pissed off at Kara's mom, why haven't they done anything to that nephew of hers flying around like he owns the place?

pentyne
Nov 7, 2012
turdiak


MY COUSIN
YOUR COUSIN
MY COUSIN
YOUR COUSIN
MY COUSIN
YOUR COUSIN.


That is some terrible writing. Were they really afraid that people watching a show called "Supergirl" would have no idea that she's connected to Superman.

All in all, it seemed like a watered down version of the CW shows meant to have a much broader appeal. Not really that bad, but the whole "WE NEED TO KEEP ALIENS SECRET" underlying plot doesn't really make much sense.

pentyne fucked around with this message at 01:01 on May 23, 2015

xeria
Jul 26, 2004

Ruh roh...

Drifter posted:

It's a show called Supergirl. About Supergirl, not Superman. it'd be cool, narratively, to have him visit or whatever, but Jimmy seems to be the Superman mouthpiece they're using, so whatever.

Now, I think the MAIN plot is kinda weird that way, but not having superman in a supergirl show isn't an issue. It's all okay, though, and not having Superman in the show shouldn't be a factor about whether you watch the show or not.

I'm gathering that the complaints are less "baww why isn't Superman just hanging out" and more "if there are serious threats to the entire world and Superman definitely exists in this universe because everyone keeps obliquely referring to him, why wouldn't he be on tap to save said world?"

Mind, I haven't watched the pilot yet, but it sounds like might be some of the same stuff that people ask about all the various single-Avenger-focused movies (eg. people asking why Tony Stark, or Hawkeye or some poo poo, doesn't show up to help Cap when SHIELD goes pear-shaped).

Drifter
Oct 22, 2000

Belated Bear Witness


Soiled Meat

xeria posted:

I'm gathering that the complaints are less "baww why isn't Superman just hanging out" and more "if there are serious threats to the entire world and Superman definitely exists in this universe because everyone keeps obliquely referring to him, why wouldn't he be on tap to save said world?"

Mind, I haven't watched the pilot yet, but it sounds like might be some of the same stuff that people ask about all the various single-Avenger-focused movies (eg. people asking why Tony Stark, or Hawkeye or some poo poo, doesn't show up to help Cap when SHIELD goes pear-shaped).
You're absolutely right.

It's the same way Agents of Shield is in the Marvel Universe but won't ever have anyone or anything from the movies. Were there complaints about that for that show?

It's a fun show. It has a very RomCom-y movie feel even though it's not a romcom.

X-O
Apr 28, 2002

Long Live The King!



Drifter posted:

Were there complaints about that for that show?

Oh God, a million times yes. The smart thing that show did was get away from mentioning Iron Man, Thor, and Captain America in every episode though and then make it a plot point that the team operated completely unknown to those characters so it would be believable that they wouldn't show up. If Supergirl dials down the Superman references to like none and then lets the character do her own thing without everyone talking about her cousin all the time it will be fine. But it was annoying as hell in the pilot because the pilot kept trying to hit you over the head with a giant hammer that said "GIRLS CAN DO THINGS TOO" and then spent the entire episode comparing everything she did to her cousin. It was pretty terrible.

Slamhound
Mar 27, 2010


The pilot was surprisingly enjoyable given the cringe inducing trailer. Melissa Benoist is a strong lead. I didn't mind the "cousin" stuff so much since it was couched as her getting out from under his shadow, but they'll seriously need to dial it back for the series proper. There's still a lot of stupid poo poo, but nothing that can't be fixed by characters not saying more stupid poo poo.

HUGE SPACEKABLOOIE
Mar 31, 2010




Man they aren't even attempting to hide the LA skyline or the WB lot

Gyges
Aug 4, 2004

NOW NO ONE
RECOGNIZE HULK


Drifter posted:

You're absolutely right.

It's the same way Agents of Shield is in the Marvel Universe but won't ever have anyone or anything from the movies. Were there complaints about that for that show?

It's a fun show. It has a very RomCom-y movie feel even though it's not a romcom.

In this case it's mostly because they just won't shut the hell up about Him, the cousin. Also the whole monster of the week thing is being set up to revolve around a Kryptonian Supermax that crashed about 12 years ago, spilling it's criminal aliens over the planet, just a short distance from where he send his cousin to grow up. Why does he seemingly not give a flying poo poo about this? It seems pretty relevant to him. But I guess Lex Luthor and Brainiac have been destroying Metropolis for the last dozen years solid.

Which admittedly could be an issue with Agents of SHIELD frequently being all up in Stark Industries espionage, mythic Norse artifacts, and on the trail of the Winter Soldier. I don't watch it, but whether or not they do it doesn't mean Supergirl isn't starting off on questionable footing.

Aphrodite
Jun 27, 2006



I think it's just the stuff being setup in the pilot means referencing Superman a bunch of times. With that established and presumably mostly monster of the week episodes after I doubt they talk about him as often.

Slamhound
Mar 27, 2010


Aphrodite posted:

I think it's just the stuff being setup in the pilot means referencing Superman a bunch of times. With that established and presumably mostly monster of the week episodes after I doubt they talk about him as often.
Yeah, that's my hope. I guess the references didn't bother me because they were as much references to Krypton as they were to Superman.

Grem
Mar 29, 2004

It's how her species communicates



Hopefully it improves, the whole thing just fell flat for me though.

pentyne
Nov 7, 2012
turdiak


Deadpool posted:

Oh God, a million times yes. The smart thing that show did was get away from mentioning Iron Man, Thor, and Captain America in every episode though and then make it a plot point that the team operated completely unknown to those characters so it would be believable that they wouldn't show up. If Supergirl dials down the Superman references to like none and then lets the character do her own thing without everyone talking about her cousin all the time it will be fine. But it was annoying as hell in the pilot because the pilot kept trying to hit you over the head with a giant hammer that said "GIRLS CAN DO THINGS TOO" and then spent the entire episode comparing everything she did to her cousin. It was pretty terrible.

Agents of Shield was a hot mess for the bulk of season 1 as they struggled to work within the mandated timeline while avoiding any meta references until Winter Solider, but after that it was a fantastic show on its own. Season 2 has been amazing because rather then forcing the show to hold things back for the sake of MCU movies the entire season was a build-up to introducing the Kree and the Inhumans, a major part of the upcoming MCU and not mentioned or referenced in the movies at all. I'd even say that many of the season 2 episodes have been better then some of the recent MCU movies.

Supergirl can be a great standalone show if they make the focus on her and what she does, rather then Jimmy Olsen constantly popping in to say "oh your cousin told me this", and if they dial back the raging sexism. It seems like a natural evolution of the DC tv series; first we had Arrow which is dark and serious most of the time, then they introduced Flash, which was mostly comedic with drama, and now we have Supergirl, which appears to be a girl power light-hearted romcom with a semi-dark meta plot.

Narcissus1916
Apr 29, 2013



Is Supergirl actually his cousin? Ugh. I always thought that takes away from Superman's unique status.

My favorite take on the character was in the superman animated series where she was from a neighboring sister planet of Krypton, spent some time in Kansas, and eventually was a huge part of the Justice League. That's how you do the character right.

But the idea of any version being the "right" one is kinda laughable, since her origin switches up almost as much as power girl.

pentyne
Nov 7, 2012
turdiak


I'm pretty sure Supergirl's origin was always "distant relative from a different planet" the particulars aren't important. The JLU version had her being raised by the Kents. The role of "Supergirl" in the comics is convoluted as gently caress since you have Powergirl as well and it really depends on whatever DC wants to decide is the new origin.

Also, just from watching the episode while comparing it to the CW shows it looks like they are spending a gently caress-ton more money on stuff just based on the backgrounds and number of expensive set pieces. Seems like a waste, but I expected it from a big 4 network not caring about making every dollar count.

HUGE SPACEKABLOOIE
Mar 31, 2010




James Woods Fan posted:

Superman isn't involved because WB doesn't want to fully utilize the character in the television space because there is serious dosh to be made in movies.

This is really the answer to most of the bullshit surrounding DC. WB is just loving up royally with DCs characters. DC is fine. WB is pants on head retarded.

Rarity
Oct 21, 2010

i fucking love scoops


pentyne posted:

MY COUSIN
YOUR COUSIN
MY COUSIN
YOUR COUSIN
MY COUSIN
YOUR COUSIN.


That is some terrible writing. Were they really afraid that people watching a show called "Supergirl" would have no idea that she's connected to Superman.

I don't get why they kept doing this. They called him Superman right at the start of the show! :psyduck:

Drifter
Oct 22, 2000

Belated Bear Witness


Soiled Meat

I don't see that having superman cameo would add any betterment to whatever plot they have for Supergirl.

Gyges
Aug 4, 2004

NOW NO ONE
RECOGNIZE HULK


Rarity posted:

I don't get why they kept doing this. They called him Superman right at the start of the show! :psyduck:

Pretty sure they just called him Kal El. Which I think they said 3 times total and is the least known of his names. Really, DC/WB has just the dumbest rules when it comes to characters being used in their movies.

Drifter posted:

I don't see that having superman cameo would add any betterment to whatever plot they have for Supergirl.

Well, he did cameo twice which was actually surprising since he was clearly Superman but they clearly couldn't say the name Superman. Really though I don't think anyone actually wants him to show up, just for the show to shut the hell up about him. If you don't mention him, her cousin, every scene or so then the audience doesn't wonder why Superman isn't doing anything about his evil aunt and her army of super aliens and Kryptonians who are planing to take over the world. Also why he didn't warn Kara about the anti-alien organization and their rear end in a top hat leader. Especially since he was perfectly fine with telling James Olsen all about her secret identity and had him courier over his baby blanket for her costume.

Rarity
Oct 21, 2010

i fucking love scoops


Gyges posted:

Pretty sure they just called him Kal El. Which I think they said 3 times total and is the least known of his names. Really, DC/WB has just the dumbest rules when it comes to characters being used in their movies.

Nope they definitely called him Superman, it stood out to me cause of everything I'd heard

pentyne
Nov 7, 2012
turdiak


Yeah, it's really dumb. A plot where "When your ship left the Phantom Zone other things followed" would be a great Supergirl story but they shoved the "your cousin" aspect into the pilot way too hard.

Astro Nut
Feb 22, 2013

Nonsensical Space Powers, Activate! Form of Friendship!

pentyne posted:

I'm pretty sure Supergirl's origin was always "distant relative from a different planet" the particulars aren't important. The JLU version had her being raised by the Kents. The role of "Supergirl" in the comics is convoluted as gently caress since you have Powergirl as well and it really depends on whatever DC wants to decide is the new origin.

Kara Zor-El's origin in the comics has always been 'distant relative' and such, but Supergirl's origins got... quite inventive for a while, since the character was still popular by DC did in fact have a strict 'Superman is the last kryptonian' policy. So in the same way that Krypto had to be a dog of similar powers from another dimension (until they retconned that), Supergirl was at one point a shapeshifting angel that got fused to some poor sap.

Decius
Oct 14, 2005



Ramrod XTreme

Narcissus1916 posted:

Is Supergirl actually his cousin? Ugh. I always thought that takes away from Superman's unique status.

My favorite take on the character was in the superman animated series where she was from a neighboring sister planet of Krypton, spent some time in Kansas, and eventually was a huge part of the Justice League. That's how you do the character right.

But the idea of any version being the "right" one is kinda laughable, since her origin switches up almost as much as power girl.

The Nu52-origin is her being his cousin and former baby sitter, whose ship orbited the sun for about a decade instead crashing the same time as his. Seems pretty much the same except replace sun with Phantom Zone

I liked it quite a bit. Turn down the stilted MRA/Grrl power monologues - or simply write them better, invent a reason why Superman didn't deal with the villains and make the government org look like it has more than three people in it.

Decius fucked around with this message at 16:55 on May 23, 2015

Khanstant
Apr 5, 2007

by Azathoth


I feel like this episode is bad enough "the cousin" critiques needn't even be brought out. Also, I like that Jimmy is black, but hate that he isn't a massive dweeb. Ally McBeal could also no be on the show, man, I forgot how nice it was for her to not be on TV where you never have o see her uncomfortable face.

Also, plothole eyebrows. How did her eyebrows get so light and thin as she aged, huh? Must be a Krypton thing.

Drifter
Oct 22, 2000

Belated Bear Witness


Soiled Meat

Khanstant posted:

I feel like this episode is bad enough "the cousin" critiques needn't even be brought out. Also, I like that Jimmy is black, but hate that he isn't a massive dweeb. Ally McBeal could also no be on the show, man, I forgot how nice it was for her to not be on TV where you never have o see her uncomfortable face.

Also, plothole eyebrows. How did her eyebrows get so light and thin as she aged, huh? Must be a Krypton thing.

...Irish Joe?

Khanstant
Apr 5, 2007

by Azathoth


I don't know what that means and I'm primarily master race, genetically.

The casual way there's a bunch of Kyptons chilling on Earth is weird, and also how they all know about how these details about the destruction of Kyrpton and who sent out who's kids and where like it's common knowledge is strange.

edit: Is this one of the women from American Horror Story? I think last time I saw her she was a sabrina teenage mutant witch or something.

Khanstant fucked around with this message at 17:23 on May 23, 2015

Valeyard
Mar 30, 2012




Grimey Drawer

I can't wait to see classic Supergirl villain Cyborg Cousin

"My God, it's like...Him except with all these electronic bits!"

Khanstant
Apr 5, 2007

by Azathoth


The military helicopter blowing poo poo up without a fuss lol.

"Kyptonese" writing. What was wrong with Kyptonian?

This show sucks, but I look forward to watching the season and complaining/laughing about it.

Khanstant fucked around with this message at 17:40 on May 23, 2015

HERAK
Dec 1, 2004


Khanstant posted:


"Kyptonese" writing. What was wrong with Kyptonian?


She actually grew up there so she might know better and actually be able to read it.

Khanstant
Apr 5, 2007

by Azathoth


I meant, I thought the term would be Kryptonian, not Krypotonese. Now that I think more about it, though, I'm not sure if there's a sensible ruleset to determine that sort of thing. Curiously, Kryptonian doesn't trigger my spell-check squiggles, but Kryptonese does.

CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK
Sep 11, 2001





Valeyard posted:

I can't wait to see classic Supergirl villain Cyborg Cousin

"My God, it's like...Him except with all these electronic bits!"

Is Elijah Wood busy?

Blackchamber
Jan 25, 2005



I only half paid attention but was the problem not that they were trying to keep aliens a secret from the public but that her agent sister was trying to keep her hidden from groups/agencies from finding about Cara being one and going after her (although if the agency knew about her and thus recruited her sister, then she wasn't even a secret before).

What they should have done if they wanted to play a 'aliens are a secret' angle was have the Supergirl story take place before the events of Man of Steel. Have her fight some aliens that have made it to earth for a season, and at the end have events tie into MoS. The tv message that broadcast around the world, the destruction in Metropolis, etc. Then have all her secrecy rendered pointless and continue the show with a more public profile. By then people will accustomed to them never mentioning Superman, and they can justify why the big S stays out of her town since shes already shown us/him she has the chops to protect it.

Edit: what I really found amusing was this pilot reminded me alot of the SNL Blackwidow romcom skit.

Blackchamber fucked around with this message at 09:31 on May 24, 2015

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Infinitum
Jul 30, 2004




Agent Conveniently-Supergirls-Human-Sister AKA Scully (Not Scully)
http://i.imgur.com/GNCzFvW.png Nice haircut Scully (Not Scully)


I went in wanting to like it, because Flash and Arrow are a lot of fun and adding Supergirl to that universe would be awesome as hell, but it's just so loving bad.

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