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Two Feet From Bread
Apr 20, 2009


College Slice

Well, it ended up selling for like $1800-1900 so way over what I could have bought new through my supplier. Wasn't expecting that... Got an H&K USP for like $200 off wholesale new. That was cool.

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janklow
Sep 28, 2001

whatever in creation exists without my knowledge exists without my consent.


Kennebago posted:

To ban state goons: how does capacity restriction change your handgun selection? If at all?
super late on this, but personally, since MD's laws allow us to go to VA (or wherever) for magazines, it's not that big of a deal... unless it's something that has hard-to-find magazines (which is more of an issue for some rifles than anything).

Mad Dragon mentioned it but the big crush on new handgun ownership here is the HQL.

MazeOfTzeentch
May 2, 2009

rip miso beno


The thing that shapes my handgun buying the most in MD is the fact that I'll never carry one, so I go with the biggest poo poo I can get. That's how I decided G34 over G19.

If carry ever happens in MD , I'll probably get something with a 10rd capacity just because I don't feel like poking that bear. So I'll probably get a G30S, if my capacity is limited, might as well have 10 of the biggest bullets.

Mad Dragon
Feb 29, 2004



janklow posted:

super late on this, but personally, since MD's laws allow us to go to VA (or wherever) for magazines, it's not that big of a deal... unless it's something that has hard-to-find magazines (which is more of an issue for some rifles than anything).

No, the Maryland law loving sucks rear end because every cool gun that was restricted before is banned now. That means no AKs, no HKs, no AUGs, etc...

edit: This is the list.

(i) American Arms Spectre da Semiautomatic carbine; 26
(ii) AK–47 in all forms; 27
(iii) Algimec AGM–1 type semi–auto; 28
(iv) AR 100 type semi–auto; 29
(v) AR 180 type semi–auto; 30
(vi) Argentine L.S.R. semi–auto; 1
(vii) Australian Automatic Arms SAR type semi–auto; 2
(viii) Auto–Ordnance Thompson M1 and 1927 semi–automatics; 3
(ix) Barrett light .50 cal. semi–auto; 4
(x) Beretta AR70 type semi–auto; 5
(xi) Bushmaster semi–auto rifle; 6
(xii) Calico models M–100 and M–900; 7
(xiii) CIS SR 88 type semi–auto; 8
(xiv) Claridge HI TEC C–9 carbines; 9
(xv) Colt AR–15, CAR–15, and all imitations except Colt AR–15 10 Sporter H–BAR rifle; 11
(xvi) Daewoo MAX 1 and MAX 2, aka AR 100, 110C, K–1, and 12 K–2; 13
(xvii) Dragunov Chinese made semi–auto; 14
(xviii) Famas semi–auto (.223 caliber); 15
(xix) Feather AT–9 semi–auto; 16
(xx) FN LAR and FN FAL assault rifle; 17
(xxi) FNC semi–auto type carbine; 18
(xxii) F.I.E./Franchi LAW 12 and SPAS 12 assault shotgun; 19
(xxiii) Steyr–AUG–SA semi–auto; 20
(xxiv) Galil models AR and ARM semi–auto; 21
(xxv) Heckler and Koch HK–91 A3, HK–93 A2, HK–94 A2 and A3; 22
(xxvi) Holmes model 88 shotgun; 23
(xxvii) Avtomat Kalashnikov semiautomatic rifle in any format; 24
(xxviii) Manchester Arms “Commando” MK–45, MK–9; 1
(xxix) Mandell TAC–1 semi–auto carbine; 2
(xxx) Mossberg model 500 Bullpup assault shotgun; 3
(xxxi) Sterling Mark 6; 4
(xxxii) P.A.W.S. carbine; 5
(xxxiii) Ruger mini–14 folding stock model (.223 caliber); 6
(xxxiv) SIG 550/551 assault rifle (.223 caliber); 7
(xxxv) SKS with detachable magazine; 8
(xxxvi) AP–74 Commando type semi–auto; 9
(xxxvii) Springfield Armory BM–59, SAR–48, G3, SAR–3, 10 M–21 sniper rifle, M1A, excluding the M1 Garand; 11
(xxxviii) Street sweeper assault type shotgun; 12
(xxxix) Striker 12 assault shotgun in all formats; 13
(xl) Unique F11 semi–auto type; 14
(xli) Daewoo USAS 12 semi–auto shotgun; 15
(xlii) UZI 9mm carbine or rifle; 16
(xliii) Valmet M–76 and M–78 semi–auto; 17
(xliv) Weaver Arms “Nighthawk” semi–auto carbine; or 18
(xlv) Wilkinson Arms 9mm semi–auto “Terry”.

Mad Dragon fucked around with this message at 22:34 on May 24, 2015

MrTuffPaws
Feb 7, 2005



Mad Dragon posted:


(xv) Colt AR–15, CAR–15, and all imitations except Colt AR–15 10 Sporter H–BAR rifle; 11


So why are heavy barrel ARs okay? It is still an AR, but it weighs a few ounces heavier.

Naked Bear
Apr 15, 2007

Boners was recorded before a studio audience that was alive!


MrTuffPaws posted:

So why are heavy barrel ARs okay? It is still an AR, but it weighs a few ounces heavier.
You're trying to make sense of laws that don't make sense.

MazeOfTzeentch
May 2, 2009

rip miso beno


MrTuffPaws posted:

So why are heavy barrel ARs okay? It is still an AR, but it weighs a few ounces heavier.

I think it was mostly a cookie to CMP/NRA hi-power shooters, to keep them from bleating about dem lieberals banning are target guns, while still getting rid of most of the AR market. However, since MSP took a pretty loose interpretation, and any heavy barrel is good, it left a nice gaping loophole (plus the pistol/SBR loophole).

TapTheForwardAssist
Apr 9, 2007

Pretty Little Lyres

MazeOfTzeentch posted:

and any heavy barrel is good, it left a nice gaping loophole (plus the pistol/SBR loophole).

Am I wrong/outdated here, or did folks end up concluding that the defining feature of a "heavy" barrel is that is has the word "HEAVY" somewhere on it? Like you could in theory have an M4 barrel with that word and it'd be defensible? In which case, that's basically AR-15 loopholes you could drive a truck through, but huge smackdown on other EBRs. Which, given that the AR15 is pretty much the cheapest EBR, it really limits your choice of aesthetic rather than any actual ability to shoot X cartridge at X speed.

DC law right now is basically the strictest in the country in terms of what models you can get, and the process for registering a gun is slightly vexing, but that said they've loosened it up considerably year after year since Heller. The worst things about the process:
- If you bring in firearms you personally own already, and they're non-AWB rifles and handguns which appear on the CA/MD/etc. approved, you have to physically bring them down to the main police station downtown, and pay like a total of $60 for paperwork, fingerprints, etc.
- If you're buying a new rifle, it's actually easier because you can just tell them what you're getting, get a registration pre-approved before you physically have the rifle, and then the FFL in Virginia or Maryland will release the long-arm to you. However, if you buy a pistol, it has to go to DC's one single FFL, which charges like $100. There was talk a few years back of DC possibly getting sued again for that limitation, especially if they were to lose their one FFL, and some talk of either the Metro PD itself getting its own FFL, or iirc getting some federal exemption to let DC residents buy handguns in VA/MD.

DC used to have off-the-hook ridiculous gun laws right after Heller forced them to allow new gun registrations for the first time in decades. There was a brief period where DC *literally* would only register firearms that were physically incapable of having more than 10 rounds in them. That is, you could register an 8-shot revolver, but you couldn't register a 6-shot semi-auto pistol even if no mag holding more than 6 rounds had ever been made for it in history, because the semi-auto could in theory hold more than 10 rounds. So they'd do revolvers, derringers, manual rifles, and I'd imagine maybe they allowed M1 Garands unless the existence of the BM59 nixed that. But eventually further pushes and threats of lawsuit and all that loosened them up.

I'd imagine overall that DC's laws will only get looser with time, partially because the Teabaggers, in a rare moment of utility, have added it to the list of one of the many ways they want to use DC to score political points. One I would grudgingly support on the notion that it adds to, rather than restricts, residents' freedoms even though it technically limits DC's sovereignty. Also, as DC gentrifies, that decreases the number of people living in bad areas who have legit concerns about gun violence, and adds to the number of residents who have money and a political voice, and just moved here from Texas and are pissed off that they have to leave their guns in Virginia. As it stands now, the registered guns in DC are hugely concentrated in the far Northwest, the upper-middle-class white bastion of the city.

Servicio en Espanol
Feb 5, 2009


TapTheForwardAssist posted:

As it stands now, the registered guns in DC are hugely concentrated in the far Northwest, the upper-middle-class white bastion of the city.


Which is largely the point of gun control laws.

Independence
Jul 11, 2006



TapTheForwardAssist posted:

Am I wrong/outdated here, or did folks end up concluding that the defining feature of a "heavy" barrel is that is has the word "HEAVY" somewhere on it? Like you could in theory have an M4 barrel with that word and it'd be defensible? In which case, that's basically AR-15 loopholes you could drive a truck through, but huge smackdown on other EBRs.

You're correct. If the barrel has heavy or hbar on the barrel it is OK in Maryland provided it meets OAL of 29 inches and doesn't have too many bad features. Sucks I can't get a Fal but iI had to choose between that and a galil.

fuccboi
Jan 5, 2004

by zen death robot


Mag cap doesn't matter for handguns since everyone's using single stack nines these days anyway

Dead Reckoning
Sep 13, 2011


Kennebago posted:

To ban state goons: how does capacity restriction change your handgun selection? If at all?
When I found out I was moving to California, I bought a P220R specifically as a night stand gun. (I have a 96G-SD that could fill the role as well, but the trigger sucks and I'd need to re-lamp the front sight and replace the LPA rear.) After trying it out, as well as my Beretta 96s, my P226, and a few other guns, I ended up going back to my PPQ. No matter how much I practice, I find I'm noticably faster to make accurate follow-up shots with 9mm handguns than with .40 S&W and .45 ACP. I also really like the PPQ's trigger, ergos, Trijicon HD sights, and controls. The Walther OEM ten round mags have run flawlessly for hundreds of rounds, including plenty of hollowpoints.

I'm still glad I bought the P220R. Old German Sigs are cool, and it has one of the nicest double action triggers of any gun I own, to the point where I'm considering sending it to Sig to be converted to DAO when I have the money. But, when it comes down to making a choice, I feel more confident in my ability to use the PPQ, even if the caliber makes sub-optimal use of the magazine well. (A 9mm P220R in DAO or DAK would be the bees knees, though.)

MazeOfTzeentch
May 2, 2009

rip miso beno


TapTheForwardAssist posted:

Am I wrong/outdated here, or did folks end up concluding that the defining feature of a "heavy" barrel is that is has the word "HEAVY" somewhere on it? Like you could in theory have an M4 barrel with that word and it'd be defensible? In which case, that's basically AR-15 loopholes you could drive a truck through, but huge smackdown on other EBRs. Which, given that the AR15 is pretty much the cheapest EBR, it really limits your choice of aesthetic rather than any actual ability to shoot X cartridge at X speed.

I've never really gotten an answer either way, that's not to say I've really asked though. I put an 11.5" heavy barrel on my AR pistol/soon-to-be-sbr, my other AR's are grandfathered AW's so I can do what I want with those and gently caress the MSPo-leece. Beyond that I'll just get other uppers and generally not bother with AR's, as I personally can't really justify more than 3 lowers, one carbine, one rifle, one stubby. Might get an SCR at some point because those doofy things are awesome. Other than that, I've got other gun fish to fry, like a grandfathered AK to build, and some retarded black powder cowboy poo poo.

Duckboat
May 15, 2012


Hey MA residents, anyone know of public access skeet that isn't far from the Merrimack valley?

ScrubbingBubbles
Feb 11, 2009


Duckboat posted:

Hey MA residents, anyone know of public access skeet that isn't far from the Merrimack valley?

Pretty sure there's an open range (more of a sand pit, really) in the Martin H Burns WMA by Newbury. I was up there for bird season, so it wasn't in use at the time, but there were plenty of shell casings around. The WMA itself was decent sized and overall pretty nice, and the local PD we bumped into were actually really friendly.

A Wizard of Goatse
Dec 14, 2014



TapTheForwardAssist posted:

If you're buying a new rifle, it's actually easier because you can just tell them what you're getting, get a registration pre-approved before you physically have the rifle, and then the FFL in Virginia or Maryland will release the long-arm to you. However, if you buy a pistol, it has to go to DC's one single FFL, which charges like $100. There was talk a few years back of DC possibly getting sued again for that limitation, especially if they were to lose their one FFL, and some talk of either the Metro PD itself getting its own FFL, or iirc getting some federal exemption to let DC residents buy handguns in VA/MD.

Didn't that guy stop being able to pay rent on his shop address and basically start shutting down his business a couple years back

I remember there was a scramble to either relocate him in the police headquarters or get the mayor an FFL or something again but didn't follow how it panned out

Duckboat
May 15, 2012


ScrubbingBubbles posted:

Pretty sure there's an open range (more of a sand pit, really) in the Martin H Burns WMA by Newbury. I was up there for bird season, so it wasn't in use at the time, but there were plenty of shell casings around. The WMA itself was decent sized and overall pretty nice, and the local PD we bumped into were actually really friendly.

Interesting, may have to check that out. Always looking for places to bring my shotgun.

janklow
Sep 28, 2001

whatever in creation exists without my knowledge exists without my consent.


Mad Dragon posted:

No, the Maryland law loving sucks rear end because every cool gun that was restricted before is banned now. That means no AKs, no HKs, no AUGs, etc...
edit: This is the list.
right, but the quote i was replying to was Kennebago's question: "To ban state goons: how does capacity restriction change your handgun selection? If at all?"

as a Marylander who bought a fair amount of now-banned firearms in 2013, i am familiar with the AWB aspects of our wonderful new legislation.

Independence posted:

Sucks I can't get a Fal but iI had to choose between that and a galil.
ironically, a FAL was the first "well, this'll get banned" gun i bought, whereas the Galil is the one that got away

MrTuffPaws
Feb 7, 2005



So when you guys say "banned", was there any grandfathering involved?

Independence
Jul 11, 2006



MrTuffPaws posted:

So when you guys say "banned", was there any grandfathering involved?

If the gun was purchased prior to Oct 1 2013, it's cool. Otherwise, you're hosed. It cannot be sold in the state, only inherited to family members upon death. I'm sure that will restricted in the future.

Thanks Martin O'Malley.

Mad Dragon
Feb 29, 2004



Soon to be Preside I can't even finish that

fuccboi
Jan 5, 2004

by zen death robot


Well we all know the REAL reason fun guns are illegal in Maryland


I'm referring to the children of course, and their well-being.

TACTICAL SANDALS
Nov 6, 2009

click clack POW, officer down

So how does it work for non MD residents bringing in banned firearms for recreational purposes? I asked a while back and it seemed to be cool, not sure if anything changed recently though. I own some land down there and wanted to bring my SBR AR-15 and suppressor, that a no go? It's in 22lr fwiw.

MazeOfTzeentch
May 2, 2009

rip miso beno


TACTICAL SANDALS posted:

So how does it work for non MD residents bringing in banned firearms for recreational purposes? I asked a while back and it seemed to be cool, not sure if anything changed recently though. I own some land down there and wanted to bring my SBR AR-15 and suppressor, that a no go? It's in 22lr fwiw.

Those in particular would be fine, generally I'd be wary of bringing in banned stuff, but I'm not 100% on that part of the law

E: the 22AR SBR is fine, it's rimfire, and SBRs are considered pistols for the purpose of MD law

janklow
Sep 28, 2001

whatever in creation exists without my knowledge exists without my consent.


TACTICAL SANDALS posted:

So how does it work for non MD residents bringing in banned firearms for recreational purposes? I asked a while back and it seemed to be cool, not sure if anything changed recently though. I own some land down there and wanted to bring my SBR AR-15 and suppressor, that a no go? It's in 22lr fwiw.
i believe this is MSP's position, which isn't saying a great deal since they've apparently taken some weird positions post-10.2013:

quote:

A Maryland resident who lawfully owned the firearm prior to October 1, 2013 may travel with the firearm to other states and return so long as it is not a violation in the state you are traveling to and the firearm is being transported in accordance with the law. A person may not transport an assault weapon into Maryland for target competition unless the person lawfully possesses, has a purchase order for, or applied to purchase the weapon before October 1, 2013. Federal law allows a person to transport a firearm through Maryland but not to Maryland if the firearm is not in compliance with state law.

George RR Fartin
Apr 16, 2003






Looking for a rec from the MA residents of the thread.

I had asked this in the New England/MA thread a while back and got a few recommendations, but each one turned out to be fairly expensive/distant. I don't need to belong to a "club" in the major sense of how they seem to be organized/run, though I don't mind the concept aside from each one being progressively more expensive the closer they get to Waltham, where I am located. Does anyone know of a range/club that's not expensive as heck and hopefully closer than an hour travel from Waltham I might attend? My sister in law is a member of the Worcester Gun Club, and they're pretty fine, but I have to go with her if I go at all (since she's the member). Weston has a "gun club" that just opened that is, as far as I can tell, a country club that replaced golf clubs with firearms, and the fees there are hilariously, well, appropriate for Weston (I mean like, $500 annual dues + a one time $250 initial fee for god knows what).

I just want to set up targets and shoot them. I'm aware of Wayne's Weapons via a friend (a gun store that's zoned as a range, so as long as you're not a dick and you actually buy ammo or something, you're clear), but it's close to an hour away. I'd prefer rifle capable ranges, but I'll settle for a pistol range at this point. I've settled directly into the beggars/choosers thing.

Tall order, I realize. I'm just on the outskirts of Boston, so there's a prevailing feeling of "you shouldn't even have a gun" going on with most people/places. Between the AWB, godawful defacto internet ammo ban, and the lack of places to shoot without being rich, this state has managed to get its way through a lot of strong-arming.

Suicide Watch
Sep 8, 2009


Shlomo Palestein posted:

Looking for a rec from the MA residents of the thread.

I had asked this in the New England/MA thread a while back and got a few recommendations, but each one turned out to be fairly expensive/distant. I don't need to belong to a "club" in the major sense of how they seem to be organized/run, though I don't mind the concept aside from each one being progressively more expensive the closer they get to Waltham, where I am located. Does anyone know of a range/club that's not expensive as heck and hopefully closer than an hour travel from Waltham I might attend? My sister in law is a member of the Worcester Gun Club, and they're pretty fine, but I have to go with her if I go at all (since she's the member). Weston has a "gun club" that just opened that is, as far as I can tell, a country club that replaced golf clubs with firearms, and the fees there are hilariously, well, appropriate for Weston (I mean like, $500 annual dues + a one time $250 initial fee for god knows what).

I just want to set up targets and shoot them. I'm aware of Wayne's Weapons via a friend (a gun store that's zoned as a range, so as long as you're not a dick and you actually buy ammo or something, you're clear), but it's close to an hour away. I'd prefer rifle capable ranges, but I'll settle for a pistol range at this point. I've settled directly into the beggars/choosers thing.

Tall order, I realize. I'm just on the outskirts of Boston, so there's a prevailing feeling of "you shouldn't even have a gun" going on with most people/places. Between the AWB, godawful defacto internet ammo ban, and the lack of places to shoot without being rich, this state has managed to get its way through a lot of strong-arming.
Mass Rifle Association is in Woburn
Harvard Sportsmen's Club is in Harvard

I've been shopping around for a club as well while waiting for my LTC, and neither of these two is as expensive as Weston. I do wonder where the public ranges are, but it seems like those in the know want to keep them a secret. Mass law does say you can't discharge a firearm within 500ft of a dwelling and 150ft of a road, makes me wish I was out west.

I do have a question about the hi-cap law in MA: Can you use pre-ban mags in a post-ban rifle with an LTC-A?

George RR Fartin
Apr 16, 2003






Yes. The only thing a pre-ban rifle allows is for you to break the "Evil feature" limit. The magazine itself is pre/post ban.

ScrubbingBubbles
Feb 11, 2009


Suicide Watch posted:

Mass Rifle Association is in Woburn
Harvard Sportsmen's Club is in Harvard

I've been shopping around for a club as well while waiting for my LTC, and neither of these two is as expensive as Weston. I do wonder where the public ranges are, but it seems like those in the know want to keep them a secret. Mass law does say you can't discharge a firearm within 500ft of a dwelling and 150ft of a road, makes me wish I was out west.

I do have a question about the hi-cap law in MA: Can you use pre-ban mags in a post-ban rifle with an LTC-A?

I was a member @ MRA for the last few years up until moving into Boston, and it was a great club and the members were very friendly and generally pretty chill (though they take range rules very seriously). I think there was a ~$100 application fee for new/lapsed members, and an annual fee of ~$175 ($50 of which would be waived if you volunteered to help maintain the club for at least 4 hours a year).

I had a great time as a member, and never, ever saw anyone doing anything stupid and/or dangerous (can't say the same for the club Braintree). Word of warning though: they mean it when they say they want you to memorize the rule book and club manual. They flunked 4 guys out during my "entrance exam" and I'm not sure they got their application deposits back. Seemed kinda harsh until I went to the aforementioned Braintree club and watched the RO bumpfire a WASR with a 75 rd drum into the berm from waist level (I was trying to site in a bolt action about 2 feet to his right and got about half the shell casings bounced off my head and ear pro). Never went back there and was pretty happy after that that there was a bit of a higher barrier to entry at MRA.

P.S. They have semi-RP events in winter where they all dress up in old combloc winter gear and shoot Mosins while generally acting silly. Oh, and there are usually free donuts and coffee in the lounge on weekends if you get there before everyone else shows up.

George RR Fartin
Apr 16, 2003






The MRA does seem like the best option from what I could see. I'm not too worried about the rules; most ranges seem to have pretty common sensible rules with minor differences on things that wouldn't even matter to me (whether fully automatic weapons or .50 BMG is allowed and whatnot). I'd rather have to spend a short time memorizing some basic poo poo than have some goober sweep me while clearing a malfunction or showing his new gun off to his buddies.

Duckboat
May 15, 2012


Bumping an old thread to state that an Uplula is an absolute necessity for ten round Beretta factory mags. It's like a night and day difference in trying to load.

Mad Dragon
Feb 29, 2004



Duckboat posted:

Bumping an old thread to state that an Uplula is an absolute necessity for ten round Beretta factory mags. It's like a night and day difference in trying to load.
And twenties.

Duckboat
May 15, 2012


Mad Dragon posted:

And twenties.

Twen-ties? I don't understand, what are these twen-ties of which you speak?

Yuns
Aug 19, 2000

There is an idea of a Yuns, some kind of abstraction, but there is no real me, only an entity, something illusory, and though I can hide my cold gaze and you can shake my hand and feel flesh gripping yours and maybe you can even sense our lifestyles are probably comparable: I simply am not there.


I'm in a weird state NJ so our limit is 15 rounds. For firearms which take more than 15 rounds instead of the normal cap mags or the factory 10 cap ones, we end up permanently modifying the normal ones to 15 rounds. Now that Colorado is in the 15 round club, I'm hoping to see more 15 round mags from the magazine manufacturers because while some shops do a great job on modified mags, some do a terrible job.

ScrubbingBubbles
Feb 11, 2009


Duckboat posted:

Twen-ties? I don't understand, what are these twen-ties of which you speak?



I'm pretty sure he means they tape two 10rd mags together

Craptacular
Jul 11, 2004



ScrubbingBubbles posted:

I'm pretty sure he means they tape two 10rd mags together

Two? Try five.


ScrubbingBubbles
Feb 11, 2009


Craptacular posted:

Two? Try five.




Pretty sure that's an illegal machine gun, mister.

Duckboat
May 15, 2012


Just out of curiosity, are there any states besides MA and CA that have approved pistol rosters?

Basticle
Sep 12, 2011




Duckboat posted:

Just out of curiosity, are there any states besides MA and CA that have approved pistol rosters?

I thought Hawaii did?

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Mad Dragon
Feb 29, 2004



Duckboat posted:

Just out of curiosity, are there any states besides MA and CA that have approved pistol rosters?

http://mdsp.maryland.gov/Organization/Pages/SupportServicesBureau/LicensingDivision/HandgunRoster.aspx

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