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BrigadierSensible
Feb 16, 2012

Don't get my name wrong,
If you want to touch me there.

Scathach posted:

See, while I feel bad for the kids in the situation, all the adult women choose it. I totally have no pity on a woman who is all "Oh you molest little girls? Here, let me marry you and pop some out for ya!" At that point they're as bad as the molestors.

I don't want to single you out for this, coz it touches on a lot of stuff that I also think.

But isn't this a little bit of 'victim blaming'? I mean I know next to nothing about the Duggars, and the women who marry in to the Duggars, but I imagine that whilst they might do it of their own free will, they almost certainly do not have informed consent.

I imagine they come from out of the same brainwashed, fundie, inbred community, and are innundated with the kind of "you are a woman so you are nothing more than a flesh sack to squirt babies from. And that flesh sack is worthless if you don't keep it pure. So get married, (to someone WE choose), and obey his every whim."

You have to feel sorry for them, at least a little bit. I feel bad for the Duggar mum. She has spent nearly as much of her life pregnant as she hasn't. She also has to live in a house full of screaming, pooing, maladjusted fundies, that are being looked after bu other screaming pooing raping maladjusted fundies.

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BrigadierSensible
Feb 16, 2012

Don't get my name wrong,
If you want to touch me there.

Wulfolme posted:

you're alright, kid. you're alright.

*sidehugs*

BrigadierSensible
Feb 16, 2012

Don't get my name wrong,
If you want to touch me there.

Scathach posted:

Like I said, I'm pretty biased from my own upbringing. I just hate ignorance being used as an excuse while kids are having their lives hosed up by a duggerer.

And seeing someone marry a child molestor irks me.

I agree with you that ignorance is no excuse when it comes to abuse, or facilitating abuse. Nor does anything excuse the abuse.

But I still think you are being overly harsh on women who are victims of abuse/isolation/family pressure themselves.

Wulfolme posted:

The mothers of such families should do something about it and they should soberly be held accountable for the fact that they don't, but it must be remembered that they're drowning in this poo poo just as badly as everyone else. The institutionalized abuse and dehumanization began with them. While you can level the demand against Michelle Duggar right now that she should be fighting against all this, if she ever starts to it will accomplish gently caress all to hold her prolonged failure to do so against her.


You're a good'un

BrigadierSensible
Feb 16, 2012

Don't get my name wrong,
If you want to touch me there.

Serious question: what do the Quiverfull and associated fundies think of black/hispanic people?

Obviously they hate brown people as filthy unclean heathen muslim/hindu/buddhists, but what do they think about black Christians?

Obviously as rednecks they hate them, but I am curious as to how they justify it biblically. Do they use the Mormon "their skin is darkened because they are sinners" poo poo?

BrigadierSensible
Feb 16, 2012

Don't get my name wrong,
If you want to touch me there.

I have 2 questions about the Quiverfulls, and associated fundies. both are yucky.

1) How do they actually have sex? Considering it is sinful, and impure et al, do they do it old school jewish style through a sheet with a hole? Given the level of repression I can't imagine either of them enjoy it at all, and if they do, propably feel bad for enjoying it. I am too much of a gentleman to mention the gaping maw that is a vagina that has birthed 19 babies in so many years.

2) How does one go a-courting? Where do they meet 'suitable' partners? And how do they even ask each other out if, as I assume, they aren't allowed to associate with members of teh opposite sex? So then when the parents have negotiated a suitable match, and you go on your chaperoned pizza date where you aren't allowed to touch, lets say you don't like the other person. Are you allowed to break up? Do the parents have to do it for you?

The whole lifestyle baffles and confounds me. I truly am unable to understand how they function in modern society. I am also deeply saddened and angered by the abusive, cultish, misogynistic, homophobic, insular madness that they brainwash little kids into.

BrigadierSensible
Feb 16, 2012

Don't get my name wrong,
If you want to touch me there.

So the girl that rejected Josh, (surely she rejected him and not the otehr way round?), does she get ostracized for not picking a 'perfectly good bachelor boy her parents picked"? Is she somehow sinful for not aquiesing to his/her parents wants? Will no other suitors want her because she is damaged goods, or even worse 'slutty' for having dated multiple men before marriage?

BrigadierSensible
Feb 16, 2012

Don't get my name wrong,
If you want to touch me there.

I asked a similar question earlier in the thread and it got answered with "they are conservative insane people, how do you think?". But I have another query:

What do the Quiverfull/Gothardites think of guns? Are they packing heat? There was something about a paramilitary training thingo that they send the boys to.

I am sorry for the naive questions, but these people and their lifestyle is a source of horrified fascination for me.

BrigadierSensible
Feb 16, 2012

Don't get my name wrong,
If you want to touch me there.

afterhours posted:

"As parents, you're not mandatory reporters... The law allows for parents to do what they think is best for their child."



Yes we are terrible people who covered up for a child molester. But using legalese we are fine. You people are the real monsters!

This also applies to the "child preying on a child" thing. gently caress YOU jimbob! A child was preyed upon. Your child was hurt and molested, but no, must save face. Mustn't stop us from getting those sweet sweet TV dollars. And most of all musn't support the victims or punish the molester coz Jesus reckons women are harlots and men are ace.

to repeat. gently caress you jim bob.

BrigadierSensible
Feb 16, 2012

Don't get my name wrong,
If you want to touch me there.

Jumpingmanjim posted:

The fact that the two girls are going forced, shamed, and bullied into doing to an interview to defend their brother is just disgusting.

Fixed.

BrigadierSensible
Feb 16, 2012

Don't get my name wrong,
If you want to touch me there.

Here's something I think went under the radar a little bit. In the interview jim "I am a literal piece of loving dog poo poo" bob said something along the lines that molestation was common among Quiverfull families. (I think. I haven't seen the interview, only summaries.)

So, will any of these other hosed up fundies get investigated? Hopefully by the police.

Also, who uses that as an excuse? "people in our hosed up insular world are also diddling kiddies. Why are you LIEberal media types and lesbian sherrifs harrassing our poor sweet joshywoshypoopoo?"

BrigadierSensible
Feb 16, 2012

Don't get my name wrong,
If you want to touch me there.

With the Bristol Palin article, and Fox interview I think I understand the mindset of the defenders.

It isn't the "I was forgiven by Jebus", and "women are tempting harlots, even at 5" stuff, (although there is a lot of that in there). This is what the Duggars themselves think, and it is horribl;e beyond words.

I think their defenders/apologists are more "Dem evil Libruls!!!!" It's also why they are attacking noted weirdo, (and obvious lieberall), Lena Dunham.

So in the minds of Conservative America, it is bad to diddle your sister, tut tut. But if you are a part of the *gasp* LIEberall media conspiracy, then that is much much worse.

BrigadierSensible
Feb 16, 2012

Don't get my name wrong,
If you want to touch me there.


The worst part of this for me, (and there is so so much wrong with this picture), is the phrase "IF abused was not at fault."

Implying that the victim could have been at fault, (probably was if she was an evil evil poufy haired temptress of a sinful woman).

All the talk of forgiveness and compassion, and letting the past go etc. leaves out teh fact taht the Duggar family have done gently caress ALL for the victims. They have spent all this time covering for, and protecting Josh, but the people they should have been protecting, (5 year old girls), are hung out to dry and then blamed for what happened to them.

gently caress you Jim Bob.

BrigadierSensible
Feb 16, 2012

Don't get my name wrong,
If you want to touch me there.

Given that the older daughter is refusing to 'court', (in order to protect the younger girls, or because she is gay, or for whatever else reason), I am wondering what happens to 'old maids' in this community.

What happens to the girls that grow older than marrying age but don't find someone to subjugate themselves to totally? Do they have to stay with their parents for eternity?

Also with the boys. Are they allowed to move out and get a job etc. if they don't get betrothed?

BrigadierSensible
Feb 16, 2012

Don't get my name wrong,
If you want to touch me there.

This is a while back, and was old news to most people but the "Nike" stuff was something I didn't know about.

And it is just so horrifyingly misogynistic, even by JimBob standards.

The women, who are forbidden to work and told how to dress and coif their hair, and are considered either baby machines or flithy tempting whores, (even at 5 years old), are required to be the guardians of men's virtue by telling them to avert their eyes whenever they may encounter a *gasp* woman in the wild.

So not only are women to blame, and carry teh sin for causing male lust, no matter how inadvertently they do it, they also have to police that lust and are probably found sinful and lacking if they fail.

"It's not my fault I molested my 5 year old sister. It is your fault for not telling me to look down when I saw that sexy bitches sexy ankles in the street yesterday. And it is my sisters fault for being so alluring. Shame on you."

gently caress you Jim Bob. gently caress you and all who think like you.

BrigadierSensible
Feb 16, 2012

Don't get my name wrong,
If you want to touch me there.

짐봅

BrigadierSensible
Feb 16, 2012

Don't get my name wrong,
If you want to touch me there.

King James was openly Bi by all historical accounts wasn't he?

I am always amused by these hardcore fundies who claim the King James Bible as the only true version, (coz it's in English, which is like American, which is where Jesus should have been from), when it is a document designed to consolidate political power, commissioned by a queer man.

BrigadierSensible
Feb 16, 2012

Don't get my name wrong,
If you want to touch me there.

C.P.A.N. posted:

Is she hot?

I don't know, my other sisters yell 'nike' whenever she's around so I have to look at my shoes.

BrigadierSensible
Feb 16, 2012

Don't get my name wrong,
If you want to touch me there.

How come only the boys get hyphenated names like Jim-Bob?

Where are the Betty-Sues? The Jamie-Lynns? (that last one even starts with a J, so it's suitable for Michelle "eyes as crazy as my vagina is distended" Duggar

BrigadierSensible
Feb 16, 2012

Don't get my name wrong,
If you want to touch me there.

Pvt.Scott posted:

He was doing that to establish dominance. That was on a double date with his daughter and her suitor. They're only allowed to hold hands while standing side to side with plenty of distance. That was purely a power display.

Is this true? Was the Jim Bob dry humping his wife as she played putt-putt on one of the 'supervised' dates?

How loving inappropriate is that? The kids are supposed to be pure, and holy, and all of that poo poo, and you are frotting in front of them. That would be rude if they were strangers, and it is creepy as hell because it is your daughter, and the boy YOU chose for her. (or son and girl that YOU had to approve of)

Also, so this means that Mini Golf is a bible approved, Jesus sanctioned activity, but what in one to do about all the unmarried harlots playing the game in their sinful knee length skirts?

BrigadierSensible
Feb 16, 2012

Don't get my name wrong,
If you want to touch me there.

you irl posted:

this gay guy is courting some chick fyi, but his countenance says "id rather be in an anus"



Those two unmarried people are touching! Burn the fornicators!!!!

Seriously, I thought they weren't allowed to touch/hug/hold hands until marriage.

Just as serioulsy, he is a bald gay twink, and the poor girl marrying him must know that.

BrigadierSensible
Feb 16, 2012

Don't get my name wrong,
If you want to touch me there.

Jumpingmanjim posted:

Some people just have no shame whatsoever.

Sorry to be dense, but can someone explain this? Who are the Dillards?

BrigadierSensible
Feb 16, 2012

Don't get my name wrong,
If you want to touch me there.

Mr Ice Cream Glove posted:

Josh resurfaces




Her eyes are saying "Help Me"

How come he is allowed to use twitter or instagram or whatever? I thought the internet was forbidden for male Duggars in case they catch a glimpse of a woman.

BrigadierSensible
Feb 16, 2012

Don't get my name wrong,
If you want to touch me there.

Three Olives posted:

Where it came out he molested his sister immediately mounds of loony evangelicals came up to defend him but this time I haven't seen anything. Do they think trying to cheat on his wife is worse than molesting children or did they just decide gently caress it, fool me once..

Yes. Yes they do.

Molesting his sisters = "He made a mistake because his sisters are women and therefore tempting slutty harlots who should have worked harder to barricade themselves away from him"
Cheating on his wife = "Hey, as a man of god you need to keep that bitch in line. She is your one and only bitch, it says so here in this book. Don't be out looking at/for other bitches"

or alternatively its "I aint gonna raise a stink about him cheating on his wife because then someone might look a little deeper into my history of marital fidelity."

This leads me into the gay Duggar, (Josiah?). His family would rather he suffer a life of lonliness and pain in an arranged marriage rather than he love another dude, suck his dick and be happy like a normal person.

I also think to these people that for GayDug to end up as a bachelor is more shameful than for him to come out. The poor kid is in a lose/lose/lose situation.

BrigadierSensible
Feb 16, 2012

Don't get my name wrong,
If you want to touch me there.

hepscat posted:

Ahaha the most recent edit took out the pornography reference entirely.

For me this was the thing about the statement that stood out. Because amongst the "I have wronged, please forgive me, God forgives me, I have caused hurt to my loved ones" bullshit was the EXPLICIT line that porn made me do it.

It's not my fault I molested my sisters, it's theirs for being women.
It's not my fault I cheated on my wife, it's porns.

Edit: Also in all this laughing at Joshywoshysweetums fall I think their needs to be some sympathy for his poor wife and kid.

She was arranged marriaged off to a worthless paedophile loser that her family chose from the same isolated fundie community as her. But he had TV money, so at least she and the kids she would be forced to spawn would be cared for. Now he has lost all that TV money, and all potential Right Wing Committee money, so you have this poor woman, who has never been schooled, has been told that it is sinful for her to work, having to take care of a paedophile who doesn't care about her's kids all the while probably blaming herself and praying/self flaggelating.

BrigadierSensible fucked around with this message at 00:34 on Aug 21, 2015

BrigadierSensible
Feb 16, 2012

Don't get my name wrong,
If you want to touch me there.

This is going to sound crazy, but I will defend Josh here, (very slightly and very provisionally)

You see if he had grown up in a house without the misogyny, sexual repression, and religious dogma, then he would still be an arsehole. But had he grown up in that house, he would have been able to talk to/look at women who weren't his sisters at the age of 14. He would have been able to have a crafty wank to a lingerie catalogue when he felt horny. He (hopefully), would have been taught a measure of responsibility and that everything bad wasn't demons/women/the outside worlds fault.

He still would have been a useless conservative manbaby that cheats on his wife with strippers, but that is where it would have ended. We would all go "haha you cheated on your wife and got caught. haha." and moved on. He, (and his wife and kids), would have moved on too. Either to forgiveness, or divorce, or whatever, but life would have moved on and all would be cool with the world.

But instead he is balls deep in this insane misogynistic fundie cult that caused him to have such a hosed up view of sexuality, and women and a lack of personal responsibility that he molested 5 year olds and claimed it was their fault. He still gets horny as an adult, so he cheats on his wife and blames a satanic treefort. And he keeps swimming deeper and deeper into a world where it is not his fault, and all he has to do is love Jesus better and in the right way.

So Josh may be an arsehole, but my contempt goes to the system that creaded him, and enslaves all the poor women around him. (Anna who wont get a divorce because of the 'shame' it would cause etc.)

BrigadierSensible
Feb 16, 2012

Don't get my name wrong,
If you want to touch me there.

Buh posted:

Where I'm from 'bathhouse' inevitably means 'house of gay sex', whether openly or clandestinely. Do people actually go to them to have a sauna in the states or did they seriously just recommend 'go bond with your dad by watching a bunch of dudes banging'

Here in Korea, bathhouses are large communal rooms with showers and baths. They are segregated by gender, and whilst not mandatory, it is common for men to walk around naked in them whilst washing. Also it is common for fathers to wash their small sons. I would imagine it is the same in teh female baths. Again this is all communal.

Everyone I speak to sees no problem with this. It is not sexual in any way shape or form, it is all about family bonding, and cleanliness. You wash yourself, then put on clothes to hang out at the sauna/general area of the bathhouse. It's a fun thing for the whole family. There's even one at Incheon airport for weary travelers to freshen themselves up.

But given that this is coming from a "pray the gay away" camp, I would imagine that the repressed pervs that run it are thinking more along your lines.

BrigadierSensible
Feb 16, 2012

Don't get my name wrong,
If you want to touch me there.

red19fire posted:

Considering how sheltered he was, he was probably genuinely fooled by the message bots/generic messages from interns.

I'm guessing he hooked up with the pornstar while in vegas on a 'fact finding' mission.

That's one of the things for me. Given his sheltered/isolated/fundie background, how did he manage to get the balls to go into a strip club and start chatting up the strippers?

The first time I went to the strippers, (I was 18), I was terrified. Now I know if I had been a repressed married arsehole instead of being a nervous timid teenager, one of them might have hosed me.

BrigadierSensible
Feb 16, 2012

Don't get my name wrong,
If you want to touch me there.

I was thinking about this. 19 kids takes a heavy financial toll. Especially when one of the parent's aren't allowed to work because of their sinful, inferior gender. Losing that TLC paycheck would have been a huge blow, even for a tax-exempt church like the Duggar family is.

They'll always have a fanbase of crazy fundies ready to throw money at them, but without the TV show, those fundies will quickly forget about them and throw their money away on the next Creflo E Dollar, or snake oil salesman that catches their eye. So I could see how they were desperate for their molestation show to go on.

Perhaps JimBob could make money on the personal appearance/speaking circuit, but that racket is pretty full already and after all of this I reckon there would be few, if any, places that would book him.

BrigadierSensible
Feb 16, 2012

Don't get my name wrong,
If you want to touch me there.

On the quiverfulls and sex:

So the woman has to "submit to her husband" whenever he is in the mood right? Does this include oral? Anal? Kinky poo poo?

Coz I would imagine with the lack of knowledge both husband and wife hav e about their own and their spouses sexuality, they wouldn't consider anything other than lights off eyes closed missionary vaginal penatrative sex.

I am thinking way too much about this.

Code Jockey posted:

I was shocked to learn that one of the quiverfulls I work with is almost my age, maybe 3-4 years on me, and he easily looks 20 years older

His wife too, she's like in her late 20s and boy has it not been an easy life

You work with a quiverfull? Work? How did he acquire the skills to get said job considering he would not have been allowed outside the compound to get an education or experience.

BrigadierSensible
Feb 16, 2012

Don't get my name wrong,
If you want to touch me there.

Jumpingmanjim posted:

They have two private planes.

Well it wouldn't be private if there wasn't one for Jim and another for Bob would it?

BrigadierSensible
Feb 16, 2012

Don't get my name wrong,
If you want to touch me there.

Casimir Radon posted:

I should start a Gogundme so I can spread the word at Disneyworld.

Seriously. word it something like "I wish to spread the seed of Jesus in wasteland of decadence and idol worship and gaudy ungodliness." The spreading of the seed line means you can use the cash to gently caress strippers whilst you are in Orlando.

BrigadierSensible
Feb 16, 2012

Don't get my name wrong,
If you want to touch me there.

How do they "minister"to people who don't speak 'Murrican?

I cannot imagine a Duggar, or one who would marry a Duggar deigning to learn Spanish, or Nepalese, or any local language.

Edit: Whoops didn't see that they were trying to learn Spanish. (And laughing about how hard and foreign it all is.)

BrigadierSensible
Feb 16, 2012

Don't get my name wrong,
If you want to touch me there.

Uncle Wemus posted:

So what's their justification when caught in a con

Either Satan-fortress in your heart, or Jesus wanted it that way.

BrigadierSensible
Feb 16, 2012

Don't get my name wrong,
If you want to touch me there.

James Robert.

BrigadierSensible
Feb 16, 2012

Don't get my name wrong,
If you want to touch me there.

Casimir Radon posted:

One of the sons is able to pursue flying as a hobby with an expensive Cirrus plane. That's something that's so far out of the reach of most people with good degrees who work 40 or more hours it's not even funny. That's an excellent illustration of how objectivity has been lost here. If you want to tell the story of a couple of bumpkins who have 19 kids you really shouldn't ignore the financial, emotion, and logistical toll this choice takes on everyone in the family. But TLC went above and beyond ignoring it and made them millionaires.

It's not a hobby though, as fair as I know. Isn't he the families official pilot. As in gets paid a wage from the 'church' coffers and everything.

BrigadierSensible
Feb 16, 2012

Don't get my name wrong,
If you want to touch me there.

As bad as I feel for it, I have a smidgen of sympathy for the Duggars and their ilk.

Because reading about 'blanket training', and the 'keep smiling' poo poo, they are constantly suffering through an inner hell where if they let teh happy facade drop for a second they will be punished, (they are probably also beating themselves up for committing the sin of unhappiness), and are so terrified to do or think anything, anything other than what they are told, that they are paralysed with fear, self loathing, and repressed desires. Add in a bucketful of fundie Christian crazy, the insane sexual mores that they live under, and a pinch of isolation then you get truly hosed up individuals.

How in the name of merciful gently caress do they survive, let alone function in the outside world? This is a legitimate question, because I cannot see them doing so without major mental collapse. This is why they huddle together in incestuous, (Josh Bob), groups and marry within the community and stay at home etc. If they are women tyhen they aren't allowed outside inm the first place, but for the men too, it's safer amongst your own when you don't know what to do, and are scared of doing anything other than what you have known.

So I feel bad for them, coz this is no way to live a life. To have your choices and your agency stripped from you, and to be imprisoned in a community that, (if you are a woman), regards you as a baby mill and property, less valuable than reputation.

So, and I know this is drawing a long long bow and I am giving them far too much credit and giving them sympathies that they don't deserve, but I think that the Dillard's paid South American vacation, (sorry missionary work), is a good thing for them. They get to see people outside their community, people of other cultures and communities. Hell, even learning Spanish will force them to think differently about the world.

I mean gently caress the way they got other people to pay for it, and gently caress the way they are going to sneer at the locals and tell them, "You aren't the proper brand of Christian". But it may change their lives and open their eyes, which can only be a good thing.

BrigadierSensible
Feb 16, 2012

Don't get my name wrong,
If you want to touch me there.

Pvt.Scott posted:

Haha, they're going to a town in with a theme park, a mall, a Walmart and a McDonald's to witness to other Christians (the dirty Mary-worshiping papists!) because anywhere else is too scary. Way to follow Christ's example and really put yourself out of your comfort zone to witness to those most in need. At that rate, they might as well just drive to Utah and witness to the Mormons.

Also they are getting their poo poo shipped in so they wont have to deal with inconvieniences like 'foreign' furniture.

BrigadierSensible
Feb 16, 2012

Don't get my name wrong,
If you want to touch me there.

I know this is old news, but did Josh actually go to the rehab place?

Coz wasn't there a thing where they said he was going but in reality he just disappeared?

Everyone is assuming he is in there now, getting the molester/cheater/stripperfucker prayed out of him, but I remember there being a thing where he did a runner and no-one could find him.

BrigadierSensible
Feb 16, 2012

Don't get my name wrong,
If you want to touch me there.

tacodaemon posted:

Every time I read the name Jinger, my brain pronounces it to rhyme with "singer" or "wringer"

As someone who hasn't watched the show, this bothers me too.

Does Jinger rhyme with Ginger, or does it rhyme with Zinger?

Alsowhy did the gay son gave up his courting? Apart from the "gods will" bullshit.Did the girl figure out he's gay and end it? Did the girls family figure out he's gay and end it? Did the girls family not want the Duggar taint, (bad press because of Josh loving strippers and groping his sisters), and end it? Or did he end it because by pretending to like a lady he got his dad off his back so now its over?

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BrigadierSensible
Feb 16, 2012

Don't get my name wrong,
If you want to touch me there.

I reckon they are going for "The Uncircumspect Heart", but are too stupid/focused on huge throbbing uncut dicks to notice.

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