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Commie NedFlanders
Mar 8, 2014



afeelgoodpoop posted:

hurr psychologist say you have to be careful with brothers and sisters of same ages when theyre toddlers cause they have no real filiter and will try anything with one another including sex.

goons "OMG THE RAPIST FUCKS PUT THEM IN JAIL"

Kids can't consent to sex or want sex or think about sex you pervert. They are innocent and this deviant propaganda you are spouting is GEttig me TRiGGErEd

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Commie NedFlanders
Mar 8, 2014



The innocence about sexuality is p much the definition of childhood and claiming that kids are actively sexual is nothing but molester propaganda.

And don't start talking about "psychology", Sigman Freud believed everyone wants to fck their mom and dream about penises WHAT A PERVeRT

Commie NedFlanders
Mar 8, 2014



not happy about all of the negative press christianity is getting

Commie NedFlanders
Mar 8, 2014



my wife used to work at a treatment center for child victims of sexual assault and one time she brought a whole bunch of paperwork detailing the numbers and statistics of this sort of thing in this area......


it's freaking shocking how prevalent this type of poo poo is, the ages, the relationships between victims and abusers, etc. i knew poo poo was hosed up and all....but it was a real :psypop: to see the numbers just spelled out like that

Commie NedFlanders
Mar 8, 2014



reading the duggar hate makes me actually feel bad for the family

Commie NedFlanders
Mar 8, 2014



i'm still mostly in the dark about the story but i'll watch this here interview with one megyn kelly and see whats up

Commie NedFlanders
Mar 8, 2014



oh dear Lord they have a lovely family it's really sad that they had to go through this it's good though that they seemed to have made the best out of it they seem committed to living a moral life and i guess if someone never sinned or came from a perfect family they'd have a good place to throw stones from but i don't see the point in piling on these people when you see them vulnerable. it's cruel.

it seems people are letting out all their stinky dirty laundry with regards to how they feel about christianity and God and all that and they are unloading it all on these poor folks.

its like a dog eat dog holier than thou welcome to the jungle pissin contest


for the love of Christ just forgive them in your hearts and let God sort it out

Commie NedFlanders
Mar 8, 2014



this entire thread is just a bunch of terrible attempts at shaming people for growing up in less than fortunate circumstances, being victims of abuse, having sexual abuse occur in one's family, etc. etc.


frankly, it's a bit disheartening to see something so delicate and upsetting being used as a way to take cheap shots at your least favorite demographic.


people are trying to talk like they give a single poo poo about the victims here but what they really want is just to try to elevate themselves by cutting into this family

if people cared about the victims at all they would recognize that having their family issues paraded around like this is not good or healthy or anything for the victims. neither is all of the vitriol aimed at their parents or family o r household or culture or religion.

it's straight up bullying, with a terribly thin half assed feigned nod towards the victim in how it's framed as if that has anything to do with the volume and depth of the public outcry





TL;DR

Commie NedFlanders
Mar 8, 2014



everybody's walking the green mile already

Commie NedFlanders
Mar 8, 2014



Jack Gladney posted:

Trust in Jesus because only a loving god would allow a child to rape his sisters and get away with it because his father had dirt on a crooked cop who made it all go away. God bless.

it's actually because Christ died for the sins of all mankind



also, you say "get away with it" like you're upset about the cosmic injustice of him getting something really sweet like robbing a bank or a candy store you sicko.

the kid was distraught about his actions, as any person with a working heart and soul who committed a terrible sin against someone else and against God, and willfully confessed his sins and sought help.

christian forgiveness may not make sense if you live in a world where doing terrible poo poo is fun and being punished is the cost of that, in that case it's just "cheating the marketplace " or whatever else liberals consider to be immoral

Commie NedFlanders
Mar 8, 2014



CrowdControl posted:

I know this is probably a troll but I'm gonna have to call bull poo poo. It's not like anyone picked a random family and the drug their dirty laundry out for everyone to see.

The problem is that the Duggars have chosen to represent a culture and lifestyle they claim is morally superior

Stop right here.

I think a whole lot of what I'm seeing is people lining up to condemn the Duggars and also other Christians for being sanctimonious hypocrites. I think people are getting satisfaction from someone who claims to have found the truth having just as ugly problems as the rest of us.

Now I understand that many people have had the unfortunate experience of people claiming to use Christianity or Christian values as an exterior to justify at attitude of judging others.

I grew up in the south and unfortunately there's an ugly history of people wrapping up hate in a pretty package. With all of that in mind, I can see how people might think "oh well these people believe they are better than us so it's good to see them suffer in their problems". Here's the thing though, it should be clear to anyone with a passing understanding of Christianity to see that if someone is authentically trying to live a Christian life, they are absolutely not the target of your frustrations.

Christianity is about humility, it's about forgiveness, it's about acknowledging first and foremost that I am a sinner, I messed up, I'm unclean and accepting that and knowing that I have no place to cast judgement on others. It's about the togetherness we find in being alone, unworthy, hell even unlovable in the infinite judgement of God yet still loved and by redemption through Christ we find a way to aim for something better.


I think this whole debacle goes to show that no matter how picture perfect your family seems, everyone has sin, everyone messes up, every single one of us stepped in poo poo. Christians are not above that and there is no Christian justification for behaving as if one is holier than thou.


quote:

only for this monstrosity to come to light. Then rather than step out of the spotlight, they force their kids into an interview to try to convince the public that they did nothing wrong and the only issue with how they handled their son molesting their daughters is that people found out about it.

Josh himself represents the family research council and positioned himself as a moral authority on sex and baby having.

These people absolutely need to be torn from their pedistal for as long as they choose to cling for it. The day they admit that they let this tragedy occur and that they should have supported and protected his victims is when we can just feEl bad it happened and move on.


There seems to be so much of other people projecting intentions and stuff onto this family. I think they have all shown shame, humility,and repentance and I don't think anyone is trying to downplay the significance of this.

It's just not helpful in anyway to anyone (especially the poor girls) to make this into a media spectacle and tear the family to pieces as a way to take a jab at Christianity

Commie NedFlanders
Mar 8, 2014



mdm posted:

lol what difference does their religion make, religion is not the relevant part of the story, it's purely political. This didn't happen because the Duggars are Christian, it happened because they're famous and of the vocal political position that trannies gonna rape or something stupid

whoa hold up perhaps i'm missing something but when was the duggar family going around accusing people of rape or hating on others?

i haven't seen too much about them, but every time i look further they seem very judicious and careful and open and not at all like your fundie aunt who gets drunk and screams about the gays at thanksgiving

Commie NedFlanders
Mar 8, 2014



etalian posted:

Also how they did the whole ideal perfect fundie thing and made millions of dollars from their positive image even though they built a rape house

i think this is closer to being honest about what's driving the criticism.


people don't like that they have a clean and good image by living a christian lifestyle.





i really hate it when people like oreilly and handy bloviate about the "war on christians" but come on, wanting to see people fall and suffer simply for living an ethical life according to their beliefs sadly adds fuel to all of the christian victim perseceution hysteria

Commie NedFlanders
Mar 8, 2014



perhaps in the light of all of this they may see the error of their ways in embracing reactionary neo-fascist politics. they seem reflective and humble. i hope they continue to grow and search and find peace in the Lord God

Commie NedFlanders
Mar 8, 2014



Portals posted:

they are blatantly homophobic and transphobic and most of their practices involve not treating women like fellow humans so basically if you're not a straight cisgendered male you should have an issue with them

yeah no i'm gonna have to hold my judgement on this one.


unfortunately liberals are so quick to cal someone homophobia or transphobic or paint them in these horrible ways simply for disagreeing with them. i've seen it too much.

if they really do have that sort of hatred in their heart, i hope they will heal and grow, but i haven't seen it.

let's be honest here. a lot of what liberals call homophobia or transfobia is really just insensitivity and some faux pas

while i understand there is some bigotry which should NOT be tolerated, don't go tripping over yourselves trying to find every secret homophobe like it's some red scare bs.

here's a lesson perhaps that liberal critics of christianity should learn from christians: when someone does something bad, it is not good or helpful to do it back to them.

if we want an open and tolerant and polite and good society, then we need to slow our roll when it comes to trying to purge out anyone who isn't up to speed yet.

i mean i understand the irony here speaking as a communist, revolutionary terror has its place whatever, but come on

Commie NedFlanders
Mar 8, 2014



Portals posted:

bro look, they sent out a robocall that was blatantly against trans people. it sure as heck wasnt just a "faux pas"

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/govbeat/wp/2014/08/19/listen-to-michelle-duggars-anti-anti-discrimination-robocall/

you know drat well that the entire republican political strategy is trying to dupe people who have honest convictions into voting for their vampire power structure



i don't think she was out trying to hurt trans people, look at the transcript from her robocall:

quote:

Hello, this is Michelle Duggar. I’m calling to inform you of some shocking news that would affect the safety of Northwest Arkansas women and children. The Fayetteville City Council is voting on an ordinance this Tuesday night that would allow men – yes I said men – to use womens and girls restrooms, locker rooms, showers, sleeping areas and other areas that are designated for females only. I don’t believe the citizens of Fayetteville would want males with past child predator convictions that claim they are female to have a legal right to enter private areas that are reserved for women and girls. I doubt that Fayetteville parents would stand for a law that would endanger their daughters or allow them to be traumatized by a man joining them in their private space. We should never place the preference of an adult over the safety and innocence of a child. Parents, who do you want undressing next to your daughter at the public swimming pool’s private changing area? I still believe that we are a society that puts women and children first. Women, young ladies and little girls deserve to use the restroom or any other facility in peace and safety. Will you speak up for protecting women and children?


Now she may be misinformed about whatever law this is (i don't know the specifics, but I do know how effective the right wing propaganda machine is at controlling narratives), but if we just take her at her word, and accept that she believes this law is going to do exactly what she is saying it will do, do you think she is terrible for opposing it?


this doesn't look like she's going around trying to force trans people to see the world her way and accept Christ, it sounds like she was afraid that males with child predator convictions might find a loophole in the law which would allow them to enter private areas.

that doesn't sound to me like westboro baptist church it sounds like a concerned mom

Commie NedFlanders
Mar 8, 2014



i think it's time for American christians to do some soul searching with regards to how the Christian faith has been coopted by political right-wingers and fanatics.

it's no good.


However, all confusions considered, I don't think someone having traditional views of marriage and gender is a terrible thing (not too terrible at least, i think feminism is necessary)

Commie NedFlanders
Mar 8, 2014



Portals posted:

I know the westboro baptist church says that god hates fags, but they're really just under the control of the conservatives. they look more like concerned parents to me, letting people know the dangers of sinning. the drat liberal media is so biased against christians

westboro baptist church is shameful garbage

Commie NedFlanders
Mar 8, 2014



Portals posted:

and the duggar family adults aren't?

do you really see those two groups at the same level? i mean yeah we're all sinners but can you really not see a difference between the duggars family and the phelps family?

Commie NedFlanders
Mar 8, 2014



Pvt.Scott posted:

I hate to break it to you guys, but being right with the Lord doesn't absolve you from being punished by the world for your sins. The laws of God are expressly not the laws of man, and Christians are called on to obey worldly authorities where their laws do not contradict the laws of God. Government authorities are granted the right to rule by God's divine will, for good and for ill. Since Josh and his parents conveniently didn't report this crime until it was no longer punishable by law, it is perfectly acceptable to me that the Duggars take some heat now. Jesus promised his followers a life full of suffering, hardships and unjust persecution, so just trust in the Lord and await your rewards in heaven. If you want a comfortable life free from want or worry, come join me in the atheist camp. :rolleyes:

good post


i agree really, perhaps things are all just working out the way they should....

still though, as for me, i'm in no position to cast stones at anyone so i hope their family can grow from this awful situation

Commie NedFlanders fucked around with this message at 02:01 on Jun 12, 2015

Commie NedFlanders
Mar 8, 2014



mdm posted:

The difference is how they are portrayed in the media

and how they portray themselves and live

the phelps family are purposefully antagonistic, they are trolls, haters, they are trying to mess with people and their worldview is perverted beyond recognition. they are trying to cause suffering to others just to drive home their obsessive interest in their single-topic faith. they want to cause as much trouble as possible for the purpose of shaming gays, it's awful.


the duggers seem to be coming from a place of benevolence and care and they don't seem to be out trying to hurt anyone, but they are limited in their perspective too and they may not always see how to best do this, but this is what comes with a good Christian lifestyle, you find yourself with certain convictions but you don't want to cause problems for others. it's a very :sweatdrop: way to live

Commie NedFlanders
Mar 8, 2014



Pvt.Scott posted:

For starters, the Phelps treat their women much better.

For starters, perhaps that's up to the women themselves to judge

Commie NedFlanders
Mar 8, 2014



Pvt.Scott posted:

Hey man, I'm just repeating what I was taught about The Lord till I was 18. If it makes you feel better, I think it's dumb.

I think you've got a cool brain

Commie NedFlanders
Mar 8, 2014



mdm do you agree with proposed french laws banning niqabs and burkas on women on the grounds that they oppress women and have no place in an open society?

Commie NedFlanders
Mar 8, 2014



mdm posted:

So the Westboro folks are worse because you view the way they pray to Jesus or whatever as inferior to the Duggar version?

James 2:14-18

14 What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? 15 Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. 16 If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? 17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.

18 But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.”

Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds.

Commie NedFlanders
Mar 8, 2014



mdm posted:

lol of course not, France is fascist piece of poo poo with those laws

That doesn't mean we can't criticize the veil as oppressive though

do you accept that some women embrace the veil and that it may offer some liberating potential for them in that context?

Commie NedFlanders
Mar 8, 2014



mdm posted:

Turns out the state forcing religious opinions on people is also a form of oppression, who would have thought

And yes, I do believe people can be brainwashed into ironic opinions

it's a bit condescending to assume women cannot have any agency and make such a decision on their own.


i think in some circumstances veils and coverings may offer liberating potential to women, and it's too simplistic to assume that it can only function one way

Commie NedFlanders
Mar 8, 2014



its already theirs whats with all this "allowing" language

Commie NedFlanders
Mar 8, 2014



perhaps people should give some time to hear from the perspective of the girls themselves, it's really about them and their perspective and it's disingenuous to rally around their victimhood without listening to them

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fevkx229XBs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCpGMoocWcw

Commie NedFlanders fucked around with this message at 04:14 on Jun 12, 2015

Commie NedFlanders
Mar 8, 2014



Jumpingmanjim posted:

They are on TV because Jim Bob (Jim Bob) wants to save the TV show. Putting them up on TV to defend THEIR OWN BROTHER that molested them is just sick.

the girls say why they are talking about it.

they didn't want this to become public, they didn't ask for all of this, and now that it is, the media dn the public are going crazy and everyone is trying to spin in their own way.

their story is theirs to tell, but everyone else with their own agendas are trying to spin this. they are talking about this publicly because it's the only way for them to regain control of the narrative, which is their right as the victims.

Commie NedFlanders
Mar 8, 2014



Geoj posted:

I doubt any of them actually did.

They're just doing what the family patriarch told them to do, as they've been trained to do since before they could walk.

you really enjoy this sort of fantasizing dont ya?

Commie NedFlanders
Mar 8, 2014



Ultimate Mango posted:

I would rather see the girls deal with their feeling and anger and not hide behind a facade of forgiveness.


Maybe it's true. Maybe they actually believe they are fulfilling their role being diddled by older men.





























Jim Bob

actually forgiveness is a wonderful way to deal with things what would you rather them do? post a thread about it?

Commie NedFlanders
Mar 8, 2014



for example, I readily forgive all of the terrible posters ITT for hurting my eyes with their bad posts


feels great bro

Commie NedFlanders
Mar 8, 2014



Shnag posted:

Commie nedflanders, while trolling, is really doing a net positive service. He does a solid job portraying a far right fundie view point. Start off by having a vague idea of whats going on, and then choose the most positive possible view point and go with it. " Sure he touched his sister over her clothes, she was his age and they (implying it was mutual} were just experimenting! It happened only once! and he apologized! (once, and nothing happened after that) Its all a liberal attack!" From that point you have to slowly point out each and every single part of the conversation he got wrong, as if you just info dumped him everything that actually happened, he could smuggly say you have an agenda, or think to much about it. And even after you very slowly point every single aspect of the case, a fundie could always say "Jesus forgives!" . And apparently any and all criticism is forfeit at that point. So really, if anyone is defending the duggers in any sense of the word, its best just to ignore them, and there is quite literally nothing to sway them from their view point, and considering the starting point is incestuous underage molestation, that is saying alot.

What are you even talking about

Commie NedFlanders
Mar 8, 2014



Amarcarts posted:

Part of me wants to read the bible through once just because of how culturally significant it is

Another part of me doesn't want to devote one second to that made up nonsense.

Don't read try picking it up and reading it like a novel.

Different books have different authors and purposes, so do a lil research for context and find your own way

Commie NedFlanders
Mar 8, 2014



drat IT people!

So this whole scandal has made me aware of the Duggar family. While many people were thrilled to have a reason to slander the family, using them as a proxy for all of Christinity, I thought I would hold my judgement until looking into s bit more.

There are unfortunately people who've got a bone to pick with Christians and will take any chance they get to hurl as much vitriol as they can at anything they believe represents the faith. I think this has contributed to the ridiculous outcry that has resulted from this.

This thread is full if he most hyperbolic and outlandish slander aimed at the Duggars and sadly much of it is not in jest but rather representative of people's actual thoughts and beliefs.

I felt it was necessary to first and foremost consider the perspectives of the victims, who gave a full interview on the topic. I thought that was rather illuminating.


I'm the hope of learning even more about the Duggar family from their own point of view (I'm a fan of Primary Sources) I decided to watch some of the show, starting from the first episode. Now I see it's been purged from the Internet, taken down from Hulu or any other source

This is obviously an attention getting family but now all their shows are inaccessible because of this?

I'm pissed

Commie NedFlanders
Mar 8, 2014



This is a fun thread to read but seriously liberals are the last people I want to take sexual moral advice from

Commie NedFlanders
Mar 8, 2014



wow this thread is so long, so what's the goon consensus? is incest actually best?

Commie NedFlanders
Mar 8, 2014



Pvt.Scott posted:

To answer the question about how many child molesters are out there, I assume you'd want to work for Child Protective Services or a sex crime unit for the cops or something. I would recommend having a backup career for your inevitable burnout.

people close to me do in fact work for CPS, some are social workers, some work specifically with victims of child abuse



even from a little bit of a distance, the horror is astonishing. i've become privy of the statistics in my area and it's so upsetting


it is VERY common, like WAYYYYY too common for the brain to handle, and most of the time it's biological parents who are abusing their own children like :froggonk: :froggonk:



just reading the statistics is gut wrenching, but the emotional load of working closely with these victims....... oh Lord bless these brave souls who work in such an emotionally exhaustive environment.

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Commie NedFlanders
Mar 8, 2014



dog buttz posted:

My wife and I watch Toddlers and Tiaras, the TLC show about little kid pageants, and holy poo poo do they try to kill their kids. One mom gives her four year old "tinker tea" which is pixie sticks mixed into a sippy cup with some awful combination of liquids like coffee, energy drinks, red bull, mountain dew, etc.

the worst show

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