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Look Under The Rock
Oct 20, 2007

you can't take the sky from me


I'm in a niche group that feels that the thing that takes a DM from good to great is knowing the right moment to fudge a dice roll.

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Somberbrero
Feb 14, 2009

The Pit Awaits


D&D combat is largely arbitrary, I think a DM needs to fudge rolls for the system to work.

Amnistar
Nov 6, 2008

Sometimes the best thing to do is just nod and smile.


If you still have slots I'm in.

Amnistar
Nov 6, 2008

Sometimes the best thing to do is just nod and smile.


Somberbrero posted:

D&D combat is largely arbitrary, I think a DM needs to fudge rolls for the system to work.

And this highly depends upon what game you are playing. For a story game, definately true. For a combat simulator/tactics game, I feel like this defeats the core concept of the game.

Somberbrero
Feb 14, 2009

The Pit Awaits


Amnistar posted:

And this highly depends upon what game you are playing. For a story game, definately true. For a combat simulator/tactics game, I feel like this defeats the core concept of the game.

The amount of variance in the core mechanic, a D20, is massive. Even in 4E, which is one of the better representations of tactics-based roleplaying, you're tied up in a lot of luck. The DM is there to mitigate that factor when it's narratively obnoxious or detrimental. Playing any D&D iteration as written sounds like an exercise in masochism, for either side of the table.

I'm not saying you should let every player side every time they're close to death, but it's a better game all around if the DM doesn't make you roll a new character every time your level one character eats a crit and dies.

GulagDolls
Jun 4, 2011



i wqanna make a d&d character thats like a science space patrol guy. is there a easyway to do that

Amnistar
Nov 6, 2008

Sometimes the best thing to do is just nod and smile.


Somberbrero posted:

The amount of variance in the core mechanic, a D20, is massive. Even in 4E, which is one of the better representations of tactics-based roleplaying, you're tied up in a lot of luck. The DM is there to mitigate that factor when it's narratively obnoxious or detrimental. Playing any D&D iteration as written sounds like an exercise in masochism, for either side of the table.

I'm not saying you should let every player side every time they're close to death, but it's a better game all around if the DM doesn't make you roll a new character every time your level one character eats a crit and dies.

To some extent I can agree with you, especially in pre-4th editions where a single hit could spell death to a character at low levels with no action on the part of the players.

I would also so that if you're playing the game as a tactics simulator you're (the player) making the mechanically superior choices to counteract the fact that luck is such a heavy factor in the game to negate it as much as possible.

But then my friends and I alternate between playing story games where the flavor of the character is the important part and what the math is behind the scenes is unimportant, and power game dungeon crawls where the group designs a party to optimize themselves and plays "against" the DM who is doing something similiar while staying within the bounds of appropriate CR.

Amnistar
Nov 6, 2008

Sometimes the best thing to do is just nod and smile.


GulagDolls posted:

i wqanna make a d&d character thats like a science space patrol guy. is there a easyway to do that

The closest I can think of for this would be using Planescape mechanics, which I believe include spaceships that travel between planes of existance on the Material Plane.

Somberbrero
Feb 14, 2009

The Pit Awaits


Well sure, running whatever kind of game people want is good. I just think that there are systems a little better equipped to handle tactics in general. Whatever is enjoyable for you is the right thing, open rolling does impart it's own kind of drama.

derp
Jan 21, 2010


Lipstick Apathy

i'm a wizard

Kleedrac
Jan 16, 2008

Mii, myself & I


Somberbrero posted:

D&D combat is largely arbitrary, I think a DM needs to fudge rolls for the system to work.

Nope - the maths behind the scenes of D&D (especially 3rd edition onwards) are quite well done and if the DM has a party with adequate equipment and putting them against a balanced challenge rating then statistically the party should win the vast majority of the time - with losses or easy victories being an aberration.

Anomalous Amalgam
Feb 13, 2015


Doctor Rope

1 more brave soul! Welcome to the table Amnistar

Amnistar
Nov 6, 2008

Sometimes the best thing to do is just nod and smile.


Kleedrac posted:

Nope - the maths behind the scenes of D&D (especially 3rd edition onwards) are quite well done and if the DM has a party with adequate equipment and putting them against a balanced challenge rating then statistically the party should win the vast majority of the time - with losses or easy victories being an aberration.

Post 3rd level this is definately true. Prior to 3rd level a single poor die roll on the part of the DM could result in a player death or party wipe.

PERPETUAL IDIOT
Sep 12, 2003


This would be just my second game but I'd like to participate.

Anomalous Amalgam
Feb 13, 2015


Doctor Rope

Welcome Perperual Idiot. I'm out drinking at the moment. I'll send out PMs when I get home.

Anomalous Amalgam
Feb 13, 2015


Doctor Rope

*Perpetual, forgive me.

Amnistar
Nov 6, 2008

Sometimes the best thing to do is just nod and smile.


Alright quick before he sends out role pm everyone pick your character archetype.

I have chosen a 3rd edition gnomes druid, built using point but with 8s in my physical stats and all my mental stats over 16. I will shapes heft all the time to negate this disadvantage and took the feat that let's me cast in wild shape.

Huzzah power gaming.

GulagDolls
Jun 4, 2011



Amnistar posted:

Alright quick before he sends out role pm everyone pick your character archetype.

I have chosen a 3rd edition gnomes druid, built using point but with 8s in my physical stats and all my mental stats over 16. I will shapes heft all the time to negate this disadvantage and took the feat that let's me cast in wild shape.

Huzzah power gaming.

I'm dwarf

PERPETUAL IDIOT
Sep 12, 2003


I give myself 18 points in all the different stats; luck, constitution, you name it and I have 18 points.

drowned in pussy juice
Oct 13, 2009

by FactsAreUseless


I think I'm the only guy in this thread that has never played a game of D&D

I'm cool so I spent my youth doing more important things (like playing text based MMORPGs based off the D&D system)

Kleedrac
Jan 16, 2008

Mii, myself & I


MC Eating Disorder posted:

I think I'm the only guy in this thread that has never played a game of D&D

I'm cool so I spent my youth doing more important things (like playing text based MMORPGs based off the D&D system)

I miss MUDs sometimes

CzarTim
Oct 2, 2012

Only as you gasp your dying breath shall you understand, your life amounted to no more than one drop in a limitless ocean.

Yet what is any ocean but a multitude of drops?


I'm the npc you meet that offers a sidequest you forget to do and have to go back and complete it later because ocd.

Look Under The Rock
Oct 20, 2007

you can't take the sky from me


If you make me a bard I pledge I will post songs like I used to in The Olden Days

GulagDolls
Jun 4, 2011



changed mind,. i'm elf

Amnistar
Nov 6, 2008

Sometimes the best thing to do is just nod and smile.


GulagDolls posted:

changed mind,. i'm elf

why not both?

http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Sandwich_Stoutaxe

drowned in pussy juice
Oct 13, 2009

by FactsAreUseless


Kleedrac posted:

I miss MUDs sometimes

Even though I'm not American, sometimes it is a thing that people will ask you where you were when 9/11 happened and its pretty embarrassing that my answer is "grinding out exp in materia magica" because that's literally how I found out about the epoch defining event of 21st century western civilisation

Somberbrero
Feb 14, 2009

The Pit Awaits


Kleedrac posted:

Nope - the maths behind the scenes of D&D (especially 3rd edition onwards) are quite well done and if the DM has a party with adequate equipment and putting them against a balanced challenge rating then statistically the party should win the vast majority of the time - with losses or easy victories being an aberration.

Even assuming that there aren't any problems with challenge rating, which is very generous, the problem is that you're applying that math across hundreds to thousands of rolls.

GulagDolls
Jun 4, 2011



http://1d4chan.org/images/d/dc/Squats.jpg

i'm this

Kleedrac
Jan 16, 2008

Mii, myself & I


MC Eating Disorder posted:

Even though I'm not American, sometimes it is a thing that people will ask you where you were when 9/11 happened and its pretty embarrassing that my answer is "grinding out exp in materia magica" because that's literally how I found out about the epoch defining event of 21st century western civilisation

I'm Canadian myself - but I remember hearing on the radio on the way to work. Are MUD's still around or have they pretty much been supplanted now?

Somberbrero posted:

Even assuming that there aren't any problems with challenge rating, which is very generous, the problem is that you're applying that math across hundreds to thousands of rolls.

But that's why the statistics hold - a fighter with an on-level weapon against an on-level monster should hit >60% of the time and should be hit <30% of the time.

Somberbrero
Feb 14, 2009

The Pit Awaits


Kleedrac posted:

I'm Canadian myself - but I remember hearing on the radio on the way to work. Are MUD's still around or have they pretty much been supplanted now?


But that's why the statistics hold - a fighter with an on-level weapon against an on-level monster should hit >60% of the time and should be hit <30% of the time.

If that doesn't seem like a huge amount of variance, then enjoy!

Look Under The Rock
Oct 20, 2007

you can't take the sky from me


Kleedrac posted:

I'm Canadian myself - but I remember hearing on the radio on the way to work. Are MUD's still around or have they pretty much been supplanted now?

There are still MUDs. I know of one discworld themed MUD and one high fantasy (I think) called Achaea that I played for literally one day.

drowned in pussy juice
Oct 13, 2009

by FactsAreUseless


oh yeah the discworld mud is definitely still around although it was a bit crap when it first came out so hopefully they've improved it since then. Pretty sure Materia Magica is still around as well although that game basically just became a place for nerds to troll other nerds by the time I stopped playing so I doubt its still worth it

WHICH WAY MADNESS
Apr 28, 2009

You recall this living nightmare, you take comfort in its familiar pain. You smell fermentation and can hear a dull, unending beeping. Someone shouts in a language you do not know.
You love your family. YOU. LOVE. THEM.
Welcome to Red Lobster. Come see what's fresh. Today.


CzarTim posted:

I'm the npc you meet that offers a sidequest you forget to do and have to go back and complete it later because ocd.

You monster.

##vote CzarTim

WHICH WAY MADNESS
Apr 28, 2009

You recall this living nightmare, you take comfort in its familiar pain. You smell fermentation and can hear a dull, unending beeping. Someone shouts in a language you do not know.
You love your family. YOU. LOVE. THEM.
Welcome to Red Lobster. Come see what's fresh. Today.


Look Under The Rock posted:

If you make me a bard I pledge I will post songs like I used to in The Olden Days

Do eeeeet.

WHICH WAY MADNESS
Apr 28, 2009

You recall this living nightmare, you take comfort in its familiar pain. You smell fermentation and can hear a dull, unending beeping. Someone shouts in a language you do not know.
You love your family. YOU. LOVE. THEM.
Welcome to Red Lobster. Come see what's fresh. Today.


MC Eating Disorder posted:

Even though I'm not American, sometimes it is a thing that people will ask you where you were when 9/11 happened and its pretty embarrassing that my answer is "grinding out exp in materia magica" because that's literally how I found out about the epoch defining event of 21st century western civilisation

Not to take away from the magnitude of 9/11, but the 21st century is still young. Hell, look at all the mischief we got up to last century.

drowned in pussy juice
Oct 13, 2009

by FactsAreUseless


yeah I couldn't figure out a better way to phrase it that didn't feel clunky as hell but maybe "post-cold war era of western political relations" is more accurate (nerd)

GulagDolls
Jun 4, 2011



i was in class with my nhead on my desk when I heard that the other kid had moved my pieces around on the checkers board in order to win, and also the towers had exploded

derp
Jan 21, 2010


Lipstick Apathy

i'm a wizard

merk
May 20, 2003



uranus posted:

i'm a wizard

You don't really ever help the party but demand your share of the loot when things go ok.

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drowned in pussy juice
Oct 13, 2009

by FactsAreUseless


Yo I'm a druid and anyone else that wanted to be a druid can SUCK IT

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