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Bobbin Threadbare
Jan 2, 2009

I'm looking for a flock of urbanmechs.

"BioShock" is a variation of "System Shock," an old-fashioned term which refers to what is now known simply as "shock." Shock is, medically speaking, a sudden drop in blood pressure typically brought about by intense physical trauma (such as a large bleeding wound), sepsis, a severe allergic reaction, or a spinal cord injury. Shock can also be brought on psychosomatically; if you are, for instance, frightened beyond all understanding, your brain might end up giving your heart an overdose of adrenaline, sending it into an abnormal rhythm which can quickly lead to shock. Shock is extremely life threatening and can easily lead to death if untreated.

System Shock is also the name of a cyberpunk/horror game made in 1994 which was born into the muddy period between 2.5D and proper 3D first-person action games. Its evolutionary path did not diverge from iD Software's Wolfenstein/Doom/Quake line so much as it ran parallel: the developers at Looking Glass Studios cut their teeth on the Ultima Underworld series which actually beat iD to several first-person milestones while at the same time maintaining an interesting story and RPG elements. The first System Shock included such things as the rogue AI SHODAN yelling at the PC during gameplay, a plot which the player steadily uncovers by reading logs and emails, an upgrade system, and more weapons than the player can actively carry. System Shock 2 built upon this with audio logs of surprisingly decent quality, a more robust skill upgrade system, a full menu that provided inventory, research, and even minigame options, and a method of respawning which cost money rather than the time it takes to reload a save. And while Warren Spector would later snatch up a number of Looking Glass alumns to work on Deus Ex 1 and 2 and Thief 3, other members left a bit earlier and founded Irrational Games, which would go on to create Freedom Force, a squad-based superhero game; SWAT 4, a first-person police procedural game; and then finally BioShocks 1 (but not 2) and Infinite.

These days Irrational no longer exists, although the core team is still with 2K Games; evidently while Infinite may have been a commercial and critical success, 2K did not appreciate Ken Levine's seat-of-his-pants development style and so he is now in charge of smaller story-driven games.



While BioShock Infinite's gameplay is entirely a refinement of Irrational's previous works, the setting is an almost complete departure from anything they did before. The basic BioShock formula is the same, mind you: there is a city in the [sky/ocean] based around the principles of [American Exceptionalism/Objectivism] and the natives can use special powers thanks to [quantum physics/genetic manipulation]. The story, however, is significantly more important, and the main character is not only a real person rather than a silent protagonist but he also has an AI companion who provides both mechanical benefits and conversation throughout most of the game. There are even stretches in which the protagonists are able to interact with peaceful crowds of civilians and NPC's, something rather lacking in previous titles in the series.

BioShock Infinite was an immediate hit upon release, receiving not only exceptional critical praise but also outstanding sales, distinguishing it as very possibly the best Shock game of them all. That said, the game is not perfect, and so after its initial success Infinite went through a period of backlash once the hype levels inevitably surpassed the game's actual quality. The plot has some issues, after all, such as important characters making seemingly irrational decisions (pun not intended), decisions made more for gameplay or (protagonist) character development purposes than because the characters would have considered them the best possible options. The themes themselves are hamfisted at times, and I wouldn't really call Infinite an open text, but I feel I should point out that BS:I is downright subtle compared to other video games with a Message and the racism is if anything less cartoonishly horrible than it actually was in 1912. The ending is also...esoteric, and I'll be getting into my analysis of what all it means and doesn't mean when the time comes. As for the gameplay, while I must say it's the most fun I've had playing a Shock game, I will admit that there are way too many weapons for just two slots and I don't really appreciate how half of them are weird variants of the other half which need their own ammo and upgrades and only appear long after you've started to invest in the normal versions.

So is BioShock Infinite a perfect game that lives up to all its praise? No, but neither would I say that it's a bad game that got mysteriously popular. Either way, though, it does feature plenty of references to history, science, literature, and philosophy, and if you'd care to join me I'd like to take some time and explore these themes in detail.

Spoiler Policy: Go Hog Wild!

As I've said in the past, I believe an informed audience is a more appreciative audience, so allow me to state what is both an advisement and a warning: please do not bother tagging your discussions of BioShock: Infinite for any reason. If you are unspoiled and believe it best to remain that way, then I suggest you limit yourself to reading this OP and the table of contents.

Finally, in case you were wondering: yes, I will be playing through the Lost at Sea DLC once the main game is finished.



PS: Debate is fine, but please keep in mind that no matter what your opinions are and no matter what the other guy's opinions are,

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Bobbin Threadbare
Jan 2, 2009

I'm looking for a flock of urbanmechs.





















































































Bobbin Threadbare fucked around with this message at 21:19 on Mar 21, 2016

Magnetic North
Dec 14, 2008

Beware the Forest's Mushrooms
I liked this game when I first played it. Then I watched my girlfriend play through it again and my opinion of the game fell to earth. :haw: I wonder what seeing it here will do to my opinion of the game.

I am also glad that the lecture structure will live on in another LP, as Deus Ex was truly excellent.

Judge Tesla
Oct 29, 2011

:frogsiren:
I found Infinite to be a very fun FPS game with a story that goes completely insane in its second half and this is the point where I lost interest in the story completely, everything else was still good however.

Though not as good as Bioshock 2, which I much prefer.

kalonZombie
May 24, 2010

D&D 3.5 Book of Erotic Fantasy
Screw the haters, this is the best Bioshock game.

1 had a really good story but the gameplay and graphics have not aged well. 2 played better but the graphics weren't much better and the story was bad fanfiction with an antagonist that made no sense.

The game doesn't have a story quite at 1's calibur, and gameplay not quite as good as 2's, but overall is a better experience than both of them.

Klaus88
Jan 23, 2011

Violence has its own economy, therefore be thoughtful and precise in your investment
A Shock franchise playthrough, with Bobbin threadbare at the helm? :getin:

I love the bait and switch they pull with the pistol, like a Bioshock game would ever let you start with a gun.

Gahmah
Nov 4, 2009
Hadn't noticed till now how much that room leading up to the priest is... foreshadowing? theming? With the identical men wandering down the identical pools and the seeming hall of mirrors effect going on. Only fault I had with the story was that it felt like the rules of Elizabeth's powers changed or weren't well explained.

also
:woop: Bobbin Corners!

racerabbit
Sep 8, 2011

"HI, I WANT TO HUG PINS NUTS."
:frolf:
Those were lobster buoys hanging on the boathouse at the beginning. A buoy is attached to a lobster trap via line, and is used to mark the trap's location. The markings on each buoy are unique to the trapper who set the lobster pot.

Samovar
Jun 4, 2011

When I want to relax, I read an essay by Engels. When I want something more serious, I read Corto Maltese.


You know, it's really cool that this LP has started - I just finished reading a book about the alteration of the definition of 'White' to encompass non-Anglo-Saxons, and have just started a book on the history of Asian populations within the U.S.A., so it'll be interesting to see this game again with that info directly to hand.

Edit: Good choice of music for the lecture corner.

Suspicious Dish
Sep 24, 2011

2020 is the year of linux on the desktop, bro
Fun Shoe
I could not beat this game. It was fun at first, but after a little while it felt like all the enemies were just sponges absorbing my bullets while I had to reload eight times to kill one.

There's one boss fight I literally could not tell that I was beating it the correct way since it took almost 10 minutes of constant fire into it before it died.

Maybe I'm just bad at games, iunno

Brainamp
Sep 4, 2011

More Zen than Zenyatta

kalonZombie posted:

Screw the haters, this is the best Bioshock game.

I still loving love this game. The intro is one of my favorite bits of world establishment.

D_W
Nov 12, 2013

Those two characters, the Lettuces (I think that's their names), are the best thing about this game.

But I'm excited to see Bobbin's adventures through Trash Cake land.

Bible Ian Black
Jul 16, 2009

I'M THE GUY
WHO SUCKS

PLUS I GOT
DEPRESSION
Good sir, you have my undivided attention.

I'm curious to see how many people get mad at your lectures for the wrong reasons, but I'm really happy to hear you talk about these things.
e: Happy isn't exactly the right word, but you get my meaning I reckon.

MuLepton
Apr 1, 2011

It's kind of a long story.

kalonZombie posted:

Screw the haters, this is the best Bioshock game.

I tend to agree. I only recently finished it (somehow managed to remain unspoilered) and I loved it, both gameplay and story. Haven't done Burial at Sea yet, but I'm really happy that Bobbin is doing this LP.

GenderSelectScreen
Mar 7, 2010

I DON'T KNOW EITHER DON'T ASK ME
College Slice
This game was hot garbage.

A story so convoluted it ruins any fun with the game you could possibly have. I'm glad the company went out of business.

tlarn
Mar 1, 2013

You see,
God doesn't help little frogs.

He helps people like me.

kalonZombie posted:

Screw the haters, this is the best Bioshock game.

1 had a really good story but the gameplay and graphics have not aged well. 2 played better but the graphics weren't much better and the story was bad fanfiction with an antagonist that made no sense.

The game doesn't have a story quite at 1's calibur, and gameplay not quite as good as 2's, but overall is a better experience than both of them.

I like this installment's gameplay, but I prefer the others because I personally find their societal issues easier to swallow than the near-comical levels of racism this game offers. Also the rube-goldberg antics you can get into with trap setup in 2.

I really can't wait to see what Bobbin has to say about the science-shenanigans later. :allears:

Mikl
Nov 8, 2009

Vote shit sandwich or the shit sandwich gets it!
I was waiting for this :)

I never played this game, and I heard mixed things about it. There are people who say it's really good, and people who say it's really bad. I guess I'll see.

Rigged Death Trap
Feb 13, 2012

BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP

This game's delivers story with the subtlety of a pneumatic jackhammer to the face.
There's no tact or elegance to it.

That being said it's a fun game.


Also more proof that no one can write a good story that revolves around time and space/dimension hopping

BgRdMchne
Oct 31, 2011

Bioshock: Infinite is the Citizen Kane of video games!

Night10194
Feb 13, 2012

We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

This is one of those games where I think I took a completely different theme from it than a lot of the players. I figured, from the racism and other things that come up, the complete idealization of the Founders and their incorporation into religious cults, and the absolute focus on the redemptive and rebirth aspects of Baptism, this was a game about the dangers of whitewashing the past and forgetting the wrinkles and complications of history.

GenderSelectScreen
Mar 7, 2010

I DON'T KNOW EITHER DON'T ASK ME
College Slice

Rigged Death Trap posted:

Also more proof that no one can write a good story that revolves around time and space/dimension hopping

I was going to say Chrono Trigger, but Chrono Cross ruins that.

Erwin the German
May 30, 2011

:3
Your DX LP was incredibly informative and perceptive; this is gonna be a treat. I personally thoroughly enjoyed Infinite as an experience, but I can get that the story has a ton of holes in retrospect. It's still a great game, and I'm looking forward to what you'll talk about.

Night10194
Feb 13, 2012

We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

Hitlers Gay Secret posted:

I was going to say Chrono Trigger, but Chrono Cross ruins that.

Chrono Trigger did it well primarily by not really giving a gently caress about the 'rules' of time travel and having it run on plot. The time periods were different set pieces/settings, nothing more, that sometimes interacted in fun ways, and the focus remained on other things.

Brainamp
Sep 4, 2011

More Zen than Zenyatta

Rigged Death Trap posted:

Also more proof that no one can write a good story that revolves around time and space/dimension hopping

Legacy of Kain has some words for you. Lots and lots of words.

HopperUK
Apr 29, 2007

Why would an ambulance be leaving the hospital?

The Lutece twins entertain me endlessly, so hooray for this.

Anyone who thinks the racism in this game is over the top really needs to go look at some examples of actual racist bullshit from the time.

MaskedTai
May 30, 2011

Hitlers Gay Secret posted:

This game was hot garbage.

A story so convoluted it ruins any fun with the game you could possibly have. I'm glad the company went out of business.

The only fun that could possibly stem from the gameplay is mangled before the story even touches it, with arbitrary limitations on equipment, AI that makes playing a computer in Tic Tac Toe more interesting, and level design that really illustrates the problems this game had in development. The game was CONSTANTLY changing major elements of design until several months before release, and the result is a muddy mess that doesn't do anything well, or even manage to make the trip interesting. Infinite is a roller-coaster ride without the thrill.

I question how you might glean anything from this game Bobbin, but don't let anyone stop you from trying.

D_W
Nov 12, 2013

Brainamp posted:

Legacy of Kain has some words for you. Lots and lots of words.

As a big fan of the LoK series I can say with the utmost clarity that, that series is plagued with plot holes and paradoxes not only from a time travel plot but also from the writing staff changing hands so much. They some how managed to make something semi coherent out their patchwork, but it does suffer from all the same things typical to a time travel plot. And not just Blood Omen 2.

TomViolence
Feb 19, 2013

PLEASE ASK ABOUT MY 80,000 WORD WALLACE AND GROMIT SLASH FICTION. PLEASE.

Anybody who thinks the racism in the game is over-the-top by 1912 standards should probably open a history book. :nms:Lynchings, for instance,:nms: were hardly unheard of throughout the 1910s.

nutri_void
Apr 18, 2015

I shall devour your soul.
Grimey Drawer

Brainamp posted:

Legacy of Kain has some words for you. Lots and lots of words.

Legacy of Kain has lots of words, but it does have its fair share of loops, holes, loopholes, and inconsistencies.
And Blood Omen 2.
That said, I still absolutely love it and I know I'll love this LP too :D

pumpinglemma
Apr 28, 2009

DD: Fondly regard abomination.

When it comes to the quantum corner, let me know if you need some fact checking - I've taken a couple of masters courses in quantum computing, which makes me worse informed than any actual physicist but probably better informed than most people. (Caveat: I know the maths, but I have no clue about the real-world interpretation.)

FoolyCharged
Oct 11, 2012

Cheating at a raffle? I sentence you to 1 year in jail! No! Two years! Three! Four! Five years! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah!
Somebody call for an ant?

So going into this having heard controversial opinions on this game, but not knowing anything about it these are my first impressions from the video:
The literal second person you hear speak after getting control talks of how the city "purged the orient" and "expelled" the voice of the people from their city, which given that it's flying sounds just as lethal.I bet the people here are super friendly :downs:
Oh hey look they're venerating America's founding fathers as saint figures, that means their sect seems to have split off from a catholic group. Oh, and they're batshit crazy.
Barbershop quartet/church choir renditions of the beach boys? Booker, this town needs burned to the ground right this instant!

Samovar
Jun 4, 2011

When I want to relax, I read an essay by Engels. When I want something more serious, I read Corto Maltese.


FoolyCharged posted:

...that means their sect seems to have split off from a catholic group...

Uh... I'm not sure what Catholic churches are like in America, but this looks nothing - NOTHING like any Catholic church I know of, it looks a hell of a lot more like either a Protestant sect, or in my mind more like some form of Mormonism.

FoolyCharged
Oct 11, 2012

Cheating at a raffle? I sentence you to 1 year in jail! No! Two years! Three! Four! Five years! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah!
Somebody call for an ant?

Samovar posted:

Uh... I'm not sure what Catholic churches are like in America, but this looks nothing - NOTHING like any Catholic church I know of, it looks a hell of a lot more like either a Protestant sect, or in my mind more like some form of Mormonism.

I thought the whole praying to saints for representation was a catholic thing? The prophet guy and his story definitely parallels my limited knowledge of the origins of the Mormons though.

anilEhilated
Feb 17, 2014

But I say fuck the rain.

Grimey Drawer

kalonZombie posted:

Screw the haters, this is the best Bioshock game.
This so much. Also, really glad we managed to figure it out from the last thread. Very much looking forward to this one, Bobbin usually manages to put a new spin on my favorite games; first the Thieves, then Deus Ex and now this one.

Bobbin Threadbare
Jan 2, 2009

I'm looking for a flock of urbanmechs.

FoolyCharged posted:

I thought the whole praying to saints for representation was a catholic thing? The prophet guy and his story definitely parallels my limited knowledge of the origins of the Mormons though.

There is a reason they call themselves the Church of Latter Day Saints, after all. That said, Colombianism (might as well call it that since they never attach a formal name) is more a riff on American Christianity in general than Mormanism in particular. And, naturally, I'll be getting to that Corner in due time.

Stormgale
Feb 27, 2010

I always felt that (apart from the DLC which we will get to) Bioshock Infinite got overly maligned simply due to being overshadowed separate by 1 and 2, 1 had a more cohesive world and story and 2 had (in my opinion) better combat game play (barring the far too sparse air rail segments) so it was too painfully :mediocre: for some so it got the hype backlash. It also commits the sin of any game with RPG elements by making you get less stuff to get powers in the harder difficulties if my memory isn't betraying me.

i'll personally never forgive the gutting of 1999 mode, or the later vox uprising chapters

Fake Edit:

kalonZombie posted:

The game doesn't have a story quite at 1's calibur, and gameplay not quite as good as 2's, but overall is a better experience than both of them.
See this guy agrees with me.

As for the tipping your seat, maybe its to get rid of any loose elements that might jostle about and cause injury during the flight?

FoolyCharged
Oct 11, 2012

Cheating at a raffle? I sentence you to 1 year in jail! No! Two years! Three! Four! Five years! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah!
Somebody call for an ant?

Stormgale posted:

As for the tipping your seat, maybe its to get rid of any loose elements that might jostle about and cause injury during the flight?

Nah, the true reason is that the lead designer's boss made him build it in because the boss decided that everyone should be able to look at the rocket engines because it would be cool.

Fabulousvillain
May 2, 2015
I've never played or seen this game, but I have played the first Bioshock. I'm hoping to get to at least the same level of :wtc: but if not the lecture is always good. :allears:

Black Balloon
Dec 28, 2008

The literal grumpiest



I enjoyed the hell out of this game, hated BioShock 1 and 2, and enjoyed this game even more when I moved from hard to 1999 mode. The difficulty really brought out how clever a lot of the encounter design was, and I feel like this is the best designed shooter I've ever played, with great difficulty progression and an interesting (if flawed) story. And I'm really interested in reliving the experience through an LP.

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Stormgale
Feb 27, 2010

FoolyCharged posted:

Nah, the true reason is that the lead designer's boss made him build it in because the boss decided that everyone should be able to look at the rocket engines because it would be cool.

My backup answer was "Put the fear of god into the Pilgrim".

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