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Alain Post posted:they do it in the laziest way though, where none of the PC attributes are actually reflected in the game world This is a good point. It's actually very easy to include a whole bunch of gender/race options if none of them change anything whatsoever.
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Jun 3, 2015 20:57
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Chomp8645 posted:This is a good point. It's actually very easy to include a whole bunch of gender/race options if none of them change anything whatsoever. I mean, I'd rather them have them than not have them at the end of the day, and I get that the huge variety of races is an issue, but still, it's something that always stuck out about the TES games.
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Jun 3, 2015 21:00
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Chomp8645 posted:I feel you bro. I also am eternally incapable of understanding the difference between a publisher and a developer. I'm with you all the way. i too like to treat someone like an idiot because they're not a big enough nerd. bro. :human being:  
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Jun 3, 2015 21:03
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precision posted:i too like to treat someone like an idiot because they're not a big enough nerd. bro. :human being: I refuse to believe that there is a person left alive in Games that had not heard that before and also that Obsidian made New Vegas
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Jun 3, 2015 21:08
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isnt it what progessive equality driven people want though when it doesnt matter the race/gender that the storyline is the same? shows that its not down to one of those things
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Jun 3, 2015 21:14
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VideoGames posted:isnt it what progessive equality driven people want though when it doesnt matter the race/gender that the storyline is the same? shows that its not down to one of those things in a fantasy game, yes, definitely, because clumsily trying to address something like racism directed at the player character through elves is going to be awkward and off-putting, IMO. still, an occasional "you must be cold, lizard from the tropical swamp" could have been fun.
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Jun 3, 2015 21:23
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precision posted:I have nothing against voice/pre-set characters but at least let me pick "VaultDude" or "VaultChick" lol if you seriously wouldn't buy a game because it doesn't have a gender checkbox
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Jun 3, 2015 21:24
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Why is the assumption always "people should do racisms to the PC" or something? I'd like stuff like dialogue options suggesting I'm some weird fucker who grew up in a swamp or some poo poo.
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Jun 3, 2015 21:25
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Adam Bowen posted:lol if you seriously wouldn't buy a game because it doesn't have a gender checkbox yeah gender slider or riot
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Jun 3, 2015 21:25
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Adam Bowen posted:lol if you seriously wouldn't buy a game because it doesn't have a gender checkbox there are tons of games where i don't care. but what's the point of playing a fallout game in which you don't get to customize your character
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Jun 3, 2015 21:27
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Alain Post posted:Why is the assumption always "people should do racisms to the PC" or something? I'd like stuff like dialogue options suggesting I'm some weird fucker who grew up in a swamp or some poo poo. it comes off as pretty tone-deaf when it's a bunch of elves or cat people talking to each other, though. once somebody starts saying "this isn't your fight, redguard, go home," the parallels invite you to question things like "hang on, what is implied by the redguards getting bonuses to these skills?"
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Jun 3, 2015 21:28
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VideoGames posted:isnt it what progessive equality driven people want though when it doesnt matter the race/gender that the storyline is the same? shows that its not down to one of those things It's because the game doesn't even acknowledge stuff that DOES happen to other members of the same race. In Skyrim the Khajits and Argonians are seen basically as gypsies and barred from cities. But if you are one nobody gives a gently caress and just let you in. The elf Nazis and still jerks to you even if you're an elf. It's the fact that every race thing going on in the game flies out the window in regards to PC. It's just a non-reactive system. That's the thing that is lame, not that the developer didn't include BITING SOCIAL COMMENTARY in your decision to be a Cat Man.
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Jun 3, 2015 21:29
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i can't really think of any game ever that has handled racism well, fantasy elf racism or regular vanilla racism
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Jun 3, 2015 21:32
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lmao if you seriously think bethesda doesn't make the world react to your gender/race because of 'equality' and not because it would be a massive headache because they insist on making a stupidly huge, but ultimately shallow, world.
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Jun 3, 2015 21:34
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It isn't "I want racisms in my games", it's "I want two characters who, by the in-game lore, should have very different ways of looking at the world, to actually see the world differently". I didn't like the game overall but I thought DA:I did a decent job of it.
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Jun 3, 2015 21:35
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Chomp8645 posted:It's because the game doesn't even acknowledge stuff that DOES happen to other members of the same race. In Skyrim the Khajits and Argonians are seen basically as gypsies and barred from cities. But if you are one nobody gives a gently caress and just let you in. The elf Nazis and still jerks to you even if you're an elf. Bicyclops posted:in a fantasy game, yes, definitely, because clumsily trying to address something like racism directed at the player character through elves is going to be awkward and off-putting, IMO. still, an occasional "you must be cold, lizard from the tropical swamp" could have been fun. thank you for explaining more for me, i get the criticisms now :>
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Jun 3, 2015 21:36
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Ekster posted:lmao if you seriously think bethesda doesn't make the world react to your gender/race because of 'equality' and not because it would be a massive headache because they insist on making a stupidly huge, but ultimately shallow, world. i don't think anyone thinks that, of course they made people not react to gender and race because it's easier that way. oblivion even has a few mistakes where people call your character "he" if you play as a woman, because it turns out recording two different versions of dialogue is a pain.
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Jun 3, 2015 21:38
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i honestly don't give a poo poo about anything but playing dress up. social equality isn't my crusade. it's all about fashion. that's why i hate games where clothing items are gender locked also
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Jun 3, 2015 21:44
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precision posted:there are tons of games where i don't care. but what's the point of playing a fallout game in which you don't get to customize your character Yes, the entire appeal of playing Fallout 4 is going to be knowing that I got to choose my character's gender, even though I'll never actually see that character and the choice will be 99% meaningless.
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Jun 3, 2015 21:45
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fallout 4 is the perfect time to introduce bicycles
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Jun 3, 2015 21:48
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precision posted:i honestly don't give a poo poo about anything but playing dress up. social equality isn't my crusade. it's all about fashion. TWEWY was ahead of its time. The dudes just had be brave as all hell to walk around in the purple bikini or maid outfits. Though clothing sadly was not reflected in the sprites, even as a generic sprite per brand. And speaking of, where the hell is TWEWY 2 Squeenix?
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Jun 3, 2015 21:48
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Alain Post posted:It isn't "I want racisms in my games", it's "I want two characters who, by the in-game lore, should have very different ways of looking at the world, to actually see the world differently". I think that casual racism in a game like Skyrim would have made a lot of sense considering the world and the plot of Skyrim. It needs to be thoroughly divorced from reality though, like an Imperial being racist at a Redguard would be a little too close to the real world for my tastes, but a cat person making fun of a Redguard for being hairless isn't a problem.
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Jun 3, 2015 21:51
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Adam Bowen posted:I think that casual racism in a game like Skyrim would have made a lot of sense considering the world and the plot of Skyrim. It needs to be thoroughly divorced from reality though, like an Imperial being racist at a Redguard would be a little too close to the real world for my tastes, but a cat person making fun of a Redguard for being hairless isn't a problem. Yeah I mean there isn't any suggestion that the Imperials at one point enslaved the Redguards and used them to grow Skooma or some poo poo so that kind of stuff would really seem weird. (I don't know TES lore very well, so maybe that actually did happen)
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Jun 3, 2015 21:55
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I'm playing Risen 2 and it's very epic to have the escaped slave enemy be identified as "Savage" by the combat UI. But it's OK because if you talk to a friendly slave he explains in pidgin English that the escaped slaves are possessed by the spirits of their ancestors and thus have a bloodlust that can only be sated by their own death.chumbler posted:TWEWY was ahead of its time. The dudes just had be brave as all hell to walk around in the purple bikini or maid outfits. Though clothing sadly was not reflected in the sprites, even as a generic sprite per brand. JRPGs are cool because half the time the dudes have more fanservice than the ladies.
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Jun 3, 2015 21:55
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Hog Inspector posted:fallout 4 is the perfect time to introduce bicycles only if your character is always getting doored.
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Jun 3, 2015 21:59
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Adam Bowen posted:Yes, the entire appeal of playing Fallout 4 is going to be knowing that I got to choose my character's gender, even though I'll never actually see that character and the choice will be 99% meaningless. lol if you don't play in third person
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Jun 3, 2015 22:09
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you can choose your gender in witcher 3. you could save right before a ciri flashback and reload everytime you finish.
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Jun 3, 2015 22:24
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What if you just assume that Geralt identifies as a woman? Your move liberals.
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Jun 3, 2015 22:25
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Alain Post posted:What if you just assume that Geralt identifies as a woman? Your move liberals. that's actually an npc. you are probably a bigot if you don't play him in gwent.
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Jun 3, 2015 22:32
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Character customization resulting in different experiences is something Fallout is known for and can make it pretty fun (low int runs and such) so if they've got a set character, it's a departure and sort of disappointing considering they could let you could go the other direction and let you pick a race (human, ghoul, super mutant, required stupid furry thing). Really, the trailer is just sort of boring and oh wow, we get to play another vault dweller who has some ties to the old world. The nice thing about NV, regardless of writing quality or bugs, was that they set the whole thing around wasteland denizens instead of retreading "the apocalypse happened!" because yeah, we already know that and don't need our hands held through the game's basic conceit since day one yet again.
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Jun 3, 2015 23:16
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The problem with the lack of racism in skyrim is the same disconnect I would feel if I played as a black character during the American Civil war but was treated the same as if I picked a white character. The problem with the modern Fallout games is that they get treated as post-apocalypse when they're Post-post-apocalypse.
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Jun 3, 2015 23:26
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Bethesda has a history of listening to complaints but addressing them in an annoying way, like how people complained about Oblivion's opening level being a boring dungeon crawl that plays identocally for every characyer so they made the opening to Fallout 3 be like an hour long with a bunch of choices and skill checks that also makes starting a new game be a huge pain in the rear end aftet the first few times. I wouldn't be surprised if making a fixed character was their answer to people complaining about the lack of a morality system or logical character motivation in Skyrim. ie "Why is my hero unquestionably sacrificing an innocent NPC to an elder god to get a unique weapon instead of telling him to gently caress off?" That or after New Vegas got a lot of praise for The Courier being a pre-existing character rather than a complete blank slate they went "gently caress, we can do that too!"
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Jun 3, 2015 23:30
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Nasgate posted:
It is a complete and utter mystery to me why anyone cares at all about this
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Jun 3, 2015 23:40
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Bicyclops posted:It is a complete and utter mystery to me why anyone cares at all about this Because replaying Mad Max over and over gets old, what happens after that is alot more interesting and one of the main reasons New Vegas had such a strong campaign. I guess it depends what you want from the game really, if you just want to explore a place and shoot some dudes I guess it isn't a problem, but if you want to play it as an actual roleplaying game a scenario and locale which isn't tremendously half arsed is basically a requirement
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Jun 3, 2015 23:46
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Bicyclops posted:It is a complete and utter mystery to me why anyone cares at all about this
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Jun 3, 2015 23:56
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The whole point of the series is basically playing Mad Max over and over again. It's like saying "Playing hit the blocks and collect coins over and over again gets old, Mario sucks." "Oh look, another game where x, y, z, really deviating from the norm there" is the most tired of all video game complaints. Play another drat series! Video games are iterative!
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Jun 3, 2015 23:57
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Bicyclops posted:It is a complete and utter mystery to me why anyone cares at all about this That and Honest Hearts is arguably the most post-post-apocalyptic Fallout entry and a lot of the fans hate it because it's all green wilderness and warfare between semi-feral nomad tribes and Biblical theology from Mormon missionaries instead of shooty bang bang and wacky 50s culture parodies.
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Jun 3, 2015 23:59
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Bicyclops posted:It is a complete and utter mystery to me why anyone cares at all about this Who cares about the setting in an RPG?
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Jun 3, 2015 23:59
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Bicyclops posted:The whole point of the series is basically playing Mad Max over and over again. It's like saying "Playing hit the blocks and collect coins over and over again gets old, Mario sucks." This is a really bad comparison because Mario generally does make some effort to change up its aesthetic and gameplay and people have been increasingly critical of the NSMB sub-series for not doing so. No series should ever rest on its laurels and just redo the same stuff without any attempt in variety or improvement Regardless, the original Fallouts were legit roleplaying games with coherent plots and well realised settings, you honestly can't be that confused as to why fans of those games prefer that over Bethesda's slapdash bullshit, even if it doesn't bother you yourself
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Jun 4, 2015 00:10
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Alain Post posted:Who cares about the setting in an RPG? let's be fair tho, there are a LOT of fallout fans who care way too much about the setting, and also about having the setting stay the same for every game. there are people who have told me to gently caress off for saying i want a fallout game set in like germany or the czech republic because "fallout has to have corny 50s Americana in it!" i would be totally fine with fallout 4 moving the plot forward a bunch of years, but the trailer obviously is going for "fallout: reloaded". but the trailer is fundamentally alright, things are well designed and so on, so i'm sure it will be a decent game. the odds of it being terrible are honestly really low. like, nobody was surprised when Unity was a lovely AC game, because that series has a rocky track record. even the worst fallout so far - no matter which one you think it is! - is still at the end of the day "a drat fine game". i dunno, maybe i just like video games... too much???
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Jun 4, 2015 00:18
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