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stevewm
May 10, 2005


Thanks Ants posted:

This is definitely one of those times I'd be tempted to look at deploying Chrome with Citrix or those little PCoIP boxes that are just dumb clients for Amazon WorkSpaces.

They are all 12 year old Wyse terminals. Everything is being trashed and replaced with our standard desktops. They have way too many terminals anyways. Most sit unused and thus won't be replaced at all.

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Matt Zerella
Oct 7, 2002

JEG VILLE KLEMME DEG


Ugh, wyse. Gross.

Digital_Jesus
Feb 10, 2011



Internet Explorer posted:

Not unless your RTO is the same for offsite as it is for onsite. And this being the small shop thread, that is doubtful.

Dark Fiber and redundant appliances are a wonderful thing

And Id consider the client im thinking of as a small shop under 300 users.

Rick
Feb 23, 2004
And now the whole nation - pulpit and all - will take up the war-cry, and shout itself hoarse, and mob any honest man who ventures to open his mouth; and presently such mouths will cease to open.

NevergirlsOFFICIAL posted:

if windows: take advantage of your ample free time to learn powershell for your next job

This is a page old but yeah, unless you have a serious problem a 20 user environment is gonna be super slow. If you do have serious problems, well, try and sell your company on how much more expensive it is to fix those problems when you're a 40 person company, and it just gets worse from there. I was apart of a company that had 10 and then as they grew to 50, then 100, then 200+ . . . and then back to 100 (which is right around when I was laid off). There are problems that started when I was the IT guy at 10, that no one wanted to pay to fix, that still existed when i went back to this role (after doing other various jobs, and going back to college and getting a completely non-IT related degree) when they had 70, and there started to be really tangible consequences for these problems, so expensive that I didn't really have the nerve to say "I told you so."

I work at a different company with around 80 people now and it's slow! Although this is partly because the guy who came before me wasn't a moron. He just was old, and all of his tech is old, but for the most part still working, so now so hopefully I don't ruin it as I bring stuff that is for sure going to break or age out in a few years into the modern era a bit for the next guy without breaking it too much.

The next pitch after we get new battery backups is that it might be time to move to office 365.

Tab8715
May 20, 2006


Matt Zerella posted:

Ugh, wyse. Gross.

Have thin clients ever - really - been successful?

Internet Explorer
Jun 1, 2005

OFFICIAL BITCH OF DANBO DAXTER




Oven Wrangler

Digital_Jesus posted:

Dark Fiber and redundant appliances are a wonderful thing

And Id consider the client im thinking of as a small shop under 300 users.

Cool, congratulations on having a client that's in the vast minority.

Sheep
Jul 24, 2003


Defenestrategy posted:

I've joined your ranks as the only IT dude in a twenty-ish user environment. Any sage wisdom you guys could pass down?

Automate everything.

JackDRipper
Feb 13, 2013

Its all about the Fishing.

Tab8715 posted:

Have thin clients ever - really - been successful?

I've seen some small to mid sized business with a custom Ubuntu or Fedora load work surprisingly well. I've never seen it work really well with Windows environments ever...

Thanks Ants
May 21, 2004

I am quite pissed at my fat man avatar.
I am too politically correct to say this out loud though.
I yearn for a reason to exist.
Help.


Fun Shoe

RemoteApp isn't bad, the issue being that one of the appeals of using it is because you have a legacy app that has to run in a controlled environment, but if that app happens to draw things strangely then you're likely to have issues getting it working reliably.

Digital_Jesus
Feb 10, 2011



Tab8715 posted:

Have thin clients ever - really - been successful?

Sure. If youre investing the money to use them for VDI.

Internet Explorer posted:

Cool, congratulations on having a client that's in the vast minority.

Thats definitely not the case. Probably more a reflection of the industry. Right now I've got about 7-8 clients that are all on similar setups with $500k+ investments in infrastructure. Most of them shops under 250 users. The siren song of 6-10 year lifespans on proper server equipment for deploying VDI or RemoteApp infrastructure across multiple small offices is strong when faced with replacing $1500 PCs every 3-5 years. $300-450 thin clients that last just as long and you get better performance out of centralized infrastructure with lower bandwidth requirements helps tremendously.

Working in medical in suburban / metro areas is a lot different from running joes shipping shack in buttfuck nebraska. Not all clients or businesses that are small run roughshod low-budget IT.

If anything it annoys me more that centralized user environments aren't more popular in the small business market. You can do a lot with relatively little investment if the equipment is specc'ed out properly for your users and their workloads. Ive seen too many businesses waste far more $$$ in the long run with cheap poo poo fixes than it would have cost them to do something proper the first go around, but that also requires IT staff capable of justifying the initial expenditure and laying out a long-term budget for the business' technology needs in terms that people who think their shits broke because their monitor is unplugged understand.

E: I guess I should include that we also have our fair share of "Whatever you find in the break room couch is your budget" businesses, but those generally tend to have ties cut with us very quickly because they generate far more email trails and paperwork than the $$/hr is worth maintaining their dumpster-rear end networks. E2: and almost all of them are in industries where cost cutting is considered a good thing, to the detriment of everyones productivity. Client / Ownership education is an incredibly important aspect of what everyone in this thread does (or should be working on doing more of) every day.

Digital_Jesus fucked around with this message at May 19, 2018 around 22:26

Agrikk
Oct 17, 2003

Do not ingest.

stevewm posted:

We are in the process of acquiring 2 existing store locations. I got to take my first physical look at their equipment. There isn't a single computer less than 7 years old at either locations. And I think some of the laptops are even older. Bonus: They have some Windows XP machines. Each location has exactly one ancient HP branded 802.11b only access point, using WEP. And 10/100 HP switches.

There is no domain.

There are some thin clients connecting to a 2003 R2 server. Some of the employees browse the internet on them... using Internet Explorer.

Basically it's all getting trashed and replaced.

Also at this point I am questioning if I can call us a "small shop" anymore. Though I may still qualify given that I am the entirety of the IT "department".

Take this opportunity to build a template for your holdout of small store locations. This way you can bundle it all as a set cost of taking over a location and management won’t be hit by the surprise.

Your template could be:
1 small server
X workstations (each of spec abc)
2 access points of type xyz
1 switch with remote management
Licensing
Backup solution
Etc

This bundle you keep in your pocket and pull out every time you get a new location and insures standardized gear.

Rick
Feb 23, 2004
And now the whole nation - pulpit and all - will take up the war-cry, and shout itself hoarse, and mob any honest man who ventures to open his mouth; and presently such mouths will cease to open.

In both my current and last job we deployed thin clients and it's mostly bad. At the first job, it made a little sense because the EHR we were using ultimately forced everyone who was outside of the main office to RDP into there anyway. The consultant we used for networking was always pushing thin clients and I finally went with it, because all of our machines pretty much had become terminals anyway. Unfortunately I let them talk me into this for our Yuma deployment. On top of being three or four hours away (depending on traffic), Yuma is not a place with very modern infrastructure. And we had just invested a ton of money into managed office with Century Link (not my idea! did not sign off on it!) so we wanted this office to be apart of it, which meant our only option was DSL, and unreliable DSL at that. It made the thin client experience so terrible for the people, and instead of not being able to work on the medical records when the internet had problems, they weren't able to work at all, and their nearest support was me, 3-4hours away. It is true that when individual machines had problems, the solution of being able to just swap the machine with another one was a reality, but the part where I was half a business day away was pretty bad. And if it was an internet problem, the Century Link support came out of Phoenix (every service in Yuma is managed by someone in Phoenix, Tucson, or San Diego). We were able to eventually get Time Warner there, which was also pretty bad as far as ISPs go, but once we had some decent bandwidth the machines magically started to work and staff actually liked them more than the laptops we had brought down there as backups for the thin clients. But of course shortly after that we were able to break the contract with the EHR and the need to connect to the main office became no longer necessary.

My current company also used this same third party consultant, and I can't poo poo on them too much because they vouched for me getting this job (possibly because they knew I'm an idiot who calls them and makes them money), and also pushed thin clients on them. I don't know why, they sold them to both companies at a steep discount and refuse to take money to support them so it's not like they make money off of them. There are a few employees who prefer them because of the small profile but they're still just a huge hassle, and take up the vast majority of my time even though they are a small percentage of our overall infrastructure (which is otherwise pretty good, albeit old).

Sheep
Jul 24, 2003


Sounds like that one is on you guys for not having the proper infrastructure to support your critical business system.

Internet Explorer
Jun 1, 2005

OFFICIAL BITCH OF DANBO DAXTER




Oven Wrangler

Digital_Jesus posted:

Thats definitely not the case. Probably more a reflection of the industry.

I wasn't talking about VDI. I was talking about backups and how most small companies don't have it set up so their RTO is the same for bringing data from off-site as it is from on-site.

Digital_Jesus
Feb 10, 2011



Internet Explorer posted:

I wasn't talking about VDI. I was talking about backups and how most small companies don't have it set up so their RTO is the same for bringing data from off-site as it is from on-site.

As was I. I was replying to your comment about clients in the minority.

Internet Explorer
Jun 1, 2005

OFFICIAL BITCH OF DANBO DAXTER




Oven Wrangler

Digital_Jesus posted:

As was I. I was replying to your comment about clients in the minority.

So your statement is that most small shops have access to dark fiber and redundant appliances because VDI exists and therefore it is okay to store backup data on the same storage as production?

Like, we are talking about how storing backup data on production storage is dumb. You bust with with WELL ACHTUALLY. And then your argument is that most small business (can, should?) be storing backup data on the same storage as production?

[Edit: I realize I am being overly flippant here but I am just really, really confused by your point.]

Internet Explorer fucked around with this message at May 20, 2018 around 15:32

Digital_Jesus
Feb 10, 2011



Internet Explorer posted:

So your statement is that most small shops have access to dark fiber and redundant appliances because VDI exists and therefore it is okay to store backup data on the same storage as production?

Like, we are talking about how storing backup data on production storage is dumb. You bust with with WELL ACHTUALLY. And then your argument is that most small business (can, should?) be storing backup data on the same storage as production?

[Edit: I realize I am being overly flippant here but I am just really, really confused by your point.]


My reply was apparently worded poorly.

Two separate things:

1) I am disheartened that more small businesses dont focus on centralized infrastructure as it can be cost efficient depending on the business.

2) There are plenty of small businesses that have access to higher end infrastructure and are able to use production storage appliances (on dedicated backup pool disk sets, god dont store your backups on the same pool/lun as production data) to store local data and have replicated appliances off-site on high speed WAN links. The commonality of that is dependent on the industry you service and not the size of the business in particular. Small Business and garbage technology are not synonymous.

E: Base point on backups is its fine to use your production appliance for local backups as long as youve got dedicated disk space to do so that doesnt interfere with the operation and performance of your production pools. I did not say it was suitable as your only backup option. Everyone should be keeping backup data in redundant locations.

E2:

Digital_Jesus posted:

TBF putting local backups on the same appliance in a separate storage pool is totally ok as long as youre still pushing it off site somewhere.

Actually no I didn't even miscommunicate my original point.

Digital_Jesus fucked around with this message at May 20, 2018 around 18:08

Methanar
Sep 26, 2013

It always was

What kind of small business are you working for where anyone even knows what a lun is

Digital_Jesus
Feb 10, 2011



Methanar posted:

What kind of small business are you working for where anyone even knows what a lun is

Digital_Jesus posted:

Working in medical

dogstile
May 1, 2012

fucking clocks
how do they work?


I'm slowly succumbing to madness so i'm just testing and retesting our backup solutions while reading a powershell booklet.

We were expecting to be setting up a new location by now, but it got pushed back a year, so i've got 35 users to support and no problems now that i've automated everything.

Nazattack
Oct 20, 2008


NevergirlsOFFICIAL posted:

That MyBusiness OU
The pain is real.

NevergirlsOFFICIAL
Apr 24, 2004



dogstile posted:

I'm slowly succumbing to madness so i'm just testing and retesting our backup solutions while reading a powershell booklet.

We were expecting to be setting up a new location by now, but it got pushed back a year, so i've got 35 users to support and no problems now that i've automated everything.

write documentation

dogstile
May 1, 2012

fucking clocks
how do they work?


NevergirlsOFFICIAL posted:

write documentation

I've written it. Also written a backup plan in case I suddenly die. It's cool i've set up a lab and i'm gonna refresh my memory on a few things. I'd be less bored if the office i worked in had anyone who actually liked eachother in it. Because nobody talks its 100% gogogo on the work and i've moved incredibly fast over the past 6 months getting everything put together.

It also helps that my predecessor wasn't an idiot. I've cursed him a couple of times but 90% of the time everything he's done has made sense, or he's gone above and beyond by setting things with expansion in mind rather than a "that'll do for now" setup.

e: Also i've only got like 35 users and of those only 12 of them at most actively use their computers.

dogstile fucked around with this message at May 22, 2018 around 10:17

Albinator
Mar 31, 2010



dogstile posted:

I've written it. Also written a backup plan in case I suddenly die. It's cool i've set up a lab and i'm gonna refresh my memory on a few things. I'd be less bored if the office i worked in had anyone who actually liked eachother in it. Because nobody talks its 100% gogogo on the work and i've moved incredibly fast over the past 6 months getting everything put together.

It also helps that my predecessor wasn't an idiot. I've cursed him a couple of times but 90% of the time everything he's done has made sense, or he's gone above and beyond by setting things with expansion in mind rather than a "that'll do for now" setup.

e: Also i've only got like 35 users and of those only 12 of them at most actively use their computers.

Sounds like a pretty sweet gig now, and obviously different people want different things from their job, but if you think you'll be in IT for the long haul, you should start thinking about your next job now. You'll need somewhere bigger and with more going on to keep gaining meaningful experience.

dogstile
May 1, 2012

fucking clocks
how do they work?


Albinator posted:

Sounds like a pretty sweet gig now, and obviously different people want different things from their job, but if you think you'll be in IT for the long haul, you should start thinking about your next job now. You'll need somewhere bigger and with more going on to keep gaining meaningful experience.

Yeah, that's my main source of boredom, if this was my first job i'd have been pretty overwhelmed but this is my fourth IT job, so I got in, sorted out the backups (had no offsite, scary times), did my documentation, automated what could be automated and now I just kinda sit pretty and tell people that they need to make sure they have batteries in their mice.

I'm getting through my powershell in a month of lunches (never needed it before, looked interesting) and i'll likely learn python because its been a long time since I did any coding. Plus I can probably make a lovely roguelike on work time. That sounds cool.

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CampingCarl
Apr 28, 2008



Work bought Pleasant server, which is good because I might get other people besides me to do things.
User sends out mass email to company and clients with obvious sketchy email attachment, that is bad. Replaced her computer and changed her passwords but its O365 so who knows how it was compromised. Higher ups have been tasked with making a response because a client wanted to know what we were doing to make sure it doesn't happen again. Should be interesting what they come back with, anything in particular to be worried about?

Unrelated, I found a Panasonic Toughpad buried under a bunch of parts. No idea what the company would have used it for(has company name in marker on the back) and the windows install seems corrupted. Any ideas of something useful I could do with it if recovered?

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