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Fish Noise
Jul 25, 2012

IT'S ME, BURROWS!

IT WAS ME ALL ALONG, BURROWS!
Yes. Yes, good. I, too, love this game, and look forward to the adventures of Isaac "add ME to the war crimes counter" Clarke in it! Every time I see that "Special Guest" bit in the opening, :allears:

I really only had two problems with the combat gameplay.
1. Mouse acceleration. Sometime after my first playthrough I did find out how to turn it off and immediately went into FUBAR laughing like a Grineer Manic.
2. Console port contextual control stacking. Admittedly, I do have a slight issue with really strange control schemes and button panic, so at least some of this is on me personally.
Ultimately, these wound up so trivial compared to everything else about the game that I was just "yeah whatever it's a little janky so what WE CLEARLY NEED TO CONTINUE ONWARDS"

CJacobs posted:

Walker can only take about fifteen bullets before he dies. You know, very realistic! Although headshots will kill him pretty quick!
One bullet from an AK to the head on FUBAR. That guy with an AK behind the counter when you first go up the stairs in the plane? He's kind of a problem. "Okay, game. I see you aren't loving around."

Also friendly fire always being on is great and totally needs a counter. When an associate first streamed the game, I was the friendly fire counter. I eventually lost count.

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Fish Noise
Jul 25, 2012

IT'S ME, BURROWS!

IT WAS ME ALL ALONG, BURROWS!
The whole "the shooter part of this is pretty much normal and fine so that means the gameplay is an unfun disaster" thing that got latched onto all over the place was just weird as hell.

I'm tempted to blame Extra Credits for starting that, with their whole video on "the running and gunning has been reduced to a banal slog", but really don't remember the timeline of it spreading.

I have some further thoughts on the subject but I'll save it for when a certain loading screen pops or the LP is otherwise sufficiently advanced into the game.

Fish Noise
Jul 25, 2012

IT'S ME, BURROWS!

IT WAS ME ALL ALONG, BURROWS!

Inferior posted:

[MASSIVE SPOILERS FOR EVERYTHING at that link btw.]
Hey come on leave the Neruzing to Neruz.

Fish Noise
Jul 25, 2012

IT'S ME, BURROWS!

IT WAS ME ALL ALONG, BURROWS!

Speedball posted:

Y'know, if this were a Hideo Kojima game, or XCOM: The Bureau I'd buy this.
Dead Space 2, even! Didn't crow notice it during one of Stross' freakouts?

Fish Noise
Jul 25, 2012

IT'S ME, BURROWS!

IT WAS ME ALL ALONG, BURROWS!
You know, I think there's actually a civilian trying to take cover in the middle of the firefight at 3:00. I'm not sure, with everything going on and some bodies despawning, but I think he gets hit by stray gunfire when he tries to run after a 33rd takes cover right across from him.

CJacobs posted:

So occasionally we will come across those guys with the bayonets. The Rambo knives.
The LPs are converging. The spirit of Blind Sally manifests as these Battlefield KaPers who rush forth in an attempt to force you to use your stasis. But this is the wrong game. There is no stasis. There is only gun.

Fish Noise
Jul 25, 2012

IT'S ME, BURROWS!

IT WAS ME ALL ALONG, BURROWS!
A few things.

Nice work on the death and choice edits!

I noticed where this gun landed when its wielder died and laughed every time the camera passed over it again.


That sickly green tinged desaturated lightspace when the phosphorous happened was simply excellent.

Have you done anything about the mouse acceleration? The procedure uses Gibbed's tools. I believe aim sensitivity can be adjusted too. I find that playability is improved, but it also makes experienced mouse users horrifically powerful.

I vote for choice paralysis. So many unknowns, constant new developments, not enough experience with what's going on. How can we possibly judge what is the right thing to do here? Well, if you can't do what's right, you can always do what's left.

Fish Noise
Jul 25, 2012

IT'S ME, BURROWS!

IT WAS ME ALL ALONG, BURROWS!

TomViolence posted:

You think you're here to save people?
Uhh, yes? Mr. Violence, this is not a game about CEC Engineer Isaac "Babypunt" Clark. I understand how this can be confusing, especially since Delta Force Captain Martin Walker never uses stasis, but that's because he doesn't actually have a stasis module.

Fish Noise
Jul 25, 2012

IT'S ME, BURROWS!

IT WAS ME ALL ALONG, BURROWS!

anilEhilated posted:

This is either heavy caliber irony or a setup for really interesting experience on your part. Walker is there for a reason, that's about all that can be said for now.

Fish Noise posted:

I, too, love this game, and look forward to the adventures of Isaac "add ME to the war crimes counter" Clarke in it!
It is a convergence joke. Templar be praised.

Fish Noise
Jul 25, 2012

IT'S ME, BURROWS!

IT WAS ME ALL ALONG, BURROWS!
It's fun comparing this squad leader with that of a certain other concurrent LP.

On my first playthrough, I chose to save the civilians. Chose to, not successfully saved. I may have hosed up the sneaky bit a little too early with some control panic ("okay, I want to scoot to this cover and- OH NO THAT WAS VAULT"). IIRC it turned into the Save Gould result.

And then, That Part.

Personally I didn't have any problems identifying that was a group of civilians. Their location and behavior immediately looked wrong, clustered and milling around in a trench, not reacting like the soldiers. "Okay. THOSE are not soldiers. Alright, alright. Let's see. If I put the shot further over on the humvee..." FWOOSH "...oh! Iiiii think I found their fuel dump too."
Interestingly, on a closer inspection of CJacobs' footage, the civilians appear to all be represented with unarmed soldier models from the mortar camera view. The backpacks and contour of their clothing all indicate soldiers. That's mean, but that's ALSO very interesting. I'll return to this point later.

Went out of my way to shoot the dying guys on the walk through. Also note where the destination marker is when The Cutscene happens. If a player did not realize what the group actually was, that's a really fun surprise. The game has just made you stare into the consequences, and right when it looks like it's about to be over, it grabs you and shoves your face in, LOOK AGAIN!

Watching The Cutscene, the geometry of it doesn't quite line up with the gameplay, but then again

biosterous posted:

Every chapter so far, Walker ends of physically lower than before. Symbolism, yo.
the landscape itself has already gone insane.

Blind Sally posted:

Yeah, the misunderstanding is a totally human response to a hosed up situation. I found it believable.
Agreed. In between Delta Force being lost newcomers and the soldier having been in the poo poo for months and almost put through the wringer by the CIA... people believe what they want to believe.

M.Ciaster posted:

In general, I'm not really getting the vibe of the game judging the player for playing it and having fun (with the gameplay, at least; it looks pretty solid) I was expecting after all I've heard about it - hell, it even lists the player in the opening credits as the "special guest".
I sense the game IS giving a big "gently caress YOU" at something specific, but it's not at the player. More on this... later. again.

M.Ciaster posted:

If anything, I feel like it's judging shooters themselves for pretty much only giving you violent ways of interacting with the world. I kept thinking "for gently caress's sake, guys, stop shooting back and start yelling it's a misunderstanding! Hell, surrender if you have to, you do believe it really is a misunderstanding after all; plus they'll probably bring you to Konrad if you do and Walker is estabilished to have History with the guy so it'll all be ok". But there's no "talk" button.

Which, again, isn't judging the player, but rather modern game devs. It's like that old "but what if you could talk to the monsters?" thing, only y'know actually making sense since the enemies are humans, not demonic invaders from hell. :v:
Shootman is compelled to shoot. Shootman must shoot. Shootman shoots, therefore he is. It's a fantastic exercise in bringing choice back to its basest unscripted levels: When to shoot, where to shoot, to shoot or not to shoot (but you must inevitably shoot, if you want to continue to be). The scripted choice is reduced to walking up to your choice and shooting it in the face. To the computer, it's just a slightly different switch, but to player experience? Holy poo poo.

Fish Noise
Jul 25, 2012

IT'S ME, BURROWS!

IT WAS ME ALL ALONG, BURROWS!

chitoryu12 posted:

You can also see some hypocrisy in Lugo's anger. He hates Walker because he "turned us into killers", but isn't that all they've been doing? The trio are responsible for easily over a hundred deaths by the time they reach the mortar. Obviously dumping white phosphorus on civilians is different from shooting the guys who have been shooting you, but Lugo has been a killer for a long time and has so many lives on his conscience that he's probably lost count. But I think he doesn't view what he's done before as really "killing", maybe to try and justify the world's longest self-defense situation. It wasn't "really" killing, you see? He just defended himself, and bad people happened to die. Right?
Are you saying a line has been crossed?

Fish Noise
Jul 25, 2012

IT'S ME, BURROWS!

IT WAS ME ALL ALONG, BURROWS!

Aces High posted:

Incidentally I have to wonder which is worse, napalm or white phosphorous
Chlorine Trifluoride. nah, that never saw actual deployment

White phosphorous. Obviously, both have direct and proximity effects, but where napalm is a coating, sticking gel, white phosphorous is a penetrating solid that continues to burn internally and has additional chemical effects on survivors.
Napalm is also much more obviously fire. One look, "that's an incendiary weapon", questions start being asked.
But phosphorous, phosphorous doesn't have that characteristic look of roaring fire, so we can continue to use it on all sorts of scales and accompany it with lovely sanitizing words. People have been catching on over the course of the last decade, thus Willy Pete's appearance in SOTL, but we haven't reached an adequate level of disgust yet, and I sense we won't anytime soon.

Fish Noise fucked around with this message at 11:44 on Jun 25, 2015

Fish Noise
Jul 25, 2012

IT'S ME, BURROWS!

IT WAS ME ALL ALONG, BURROWS!

anilEhilated posted:

So it's an atrocity but it's fine to use it as long as it doesn't hit too many unintended targets?
It gets pretty :stare: once you notice the difference between the very generalized way people often thinks it works ("isn't this banned?"/"isn't this a chemical weapon?") and the carefully-worded-fine-print reality ("oh no everybody uses this stuff all the time"/"oh the only reason we don't use this anymore is because we have something better"/"oh no the kill mechanism isn't chemical, you're not supposed to live long enough to experience the poisoning effects"). I believe thermobarics are very fashionable now.

He has conveyed drooling in anticipation through text.

Fish Noise
Jul 25, 2012

IT'S ME, BURROWS!

IT WAS ME ALL ALONG, BURROWS!

Dead Reckoning posted:

To be fair, I think the use of White Phosphorus as an All-Burning Doom Cloud was more a matter of artistic license that trying to make some sort of technical or political statement about the use or misuse of smoke screens. (Some people in the thread may have taken it that way, but hopefully they realize it's just a game.) Real WP doesn't leave a cloud of ghostly fireflies to bathe the scene in surreal light, and the EOD armor the heavies wear also doesn't let you take multiple large caliber gunshots to the face and torso, but drat does that scene where the heavy trooper strides out of the smoke surrounded by burning bodies work with the super-saturated, hallucinatory nightmare atmosphere of the game.
Indeed. Games will inevitably break from reality, for whatever reasons from mechanical playability to dramatic effect. It's essential to consider the latter in Spec Ops' hallucinatory nightmare atmosphere, and whether or not the audience will even recognize the various breaks.

For instance, and this is not directed at anyone in particular: why are there so many AK-"47"s here?

Fish Noise
Jul 25, 2012

IT'S ME, BURROWS!

IT WAS ME ALL ALONG, BURROWS!

Blind Sally posted:

Yeah, for a shooty-man, this game is less about tactical realism and more about story-telling.

Wiggy Marie posted:

Honestly I prefer the rewritten version, because it makes the dissociation stronger as the game progresses. I'd rather be asking "why are we even still here?" than be stuck with "gotta find that dude, that dude y'all." It makes the story more interesting, to me.

There's an inconsistent realism to the game. I love magical realism so I'm fine with it (how did three dudes walk through a sandstorm that took out enough people to cause an entire battalion to give up?), but I can see why people might struggle to justify it. The game is certainly trying to tread that boundary and it just won't work for everyone.
Agreed. Despite any additional insights and tactical consistency, the original script ultimately is not the game that we are watching CJacobs play, and from reading the parts of the original script that are available, I rather prefer the very different sideways hellscape we wound up with.

Fish Noise
Jul 25, 2012

IT'S ME, BURROWS!

IT WAS ME ALL ALONG, BURROWS!

Wiggy Marie posted:

"engaging but not fun" critique that a few prominent reviewers pointed out about this game
God I want to talk about this but it depends on a few loading screens. CJacobs, PM.

Fish Noise
Jul 25, 2012

IT'S ME, BURROWS!

IT WAS ME ALL ALONG, BURROWS!
My initial exposure was the RPS posts leading up to release, and I started with a "do we really need another brown people shooter/stomper?" reaction to the first trailer that didn't really suggest anything beyond standard "hard man making hard decisions" MMS fare. (speaking of which, I look forward to meeting our Preventer character)

The second post reversed that dismissal entirely when they mentioned Heart of Darkness, so I went in ready and expecting to see some poo poo.

In that situation, it was me. I was Isaac "The War Crimes Machine" Clarke there. But now, it's CJacobs turn to be Isaac "You wanna see the death? Let's do it!" Clarke.

EDIT:
The few people I got into the game were also hooked via the Apocalypse Now / Heart of Darkness inspiration, even if some had no idea what the hell that meant at first.
"LOL is that another modern military shooter."
"This one should be different, it's inspired by Apocalypse Now and Heart of Darkness."
"Isn't that a Vietnam movie?"
"Yeah it's a Vietnam War retelling of Heart of Darkness"
"I don't know what that is."
"It's about the Belgian Congo."
"..... :stonk: "
"I'd keep my eye on this one."

Fish Noise fucked around with this message at 06:24 on Jun 28, 2015

Fish Noise
Jul 25, 2012

IT'S ME, BURROWS!

IT WAS ME ALL ALONG, BURROWS!

Shei-kun posted:

Shoot the snipers if that's possible, otherwise Shoot the soldier.

We're committing war crimes either way, might as well go whole hog!
Despite how much I like the SLAUGHTER EVERYONE votes that will bring out your inner Isaac "Does he shoot himself? I hope he shoots himself." Clarke, imma go with Shei-kun here.

Fish Noise
Jul 25, 2012

IT'S ME, BURROWS!

IT WAS ME ALL ALONG, BURROWS!
Well, at least you're not calling him The Prince.

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Fish Noise
Jul 25, 2012

IT'S ME, BURROWS!

IT WAS ME ALL ALONG, BURROWS!

Wayne posted:

* I've heard that the main criticism there is actually aimed at trying to come to grips with being a super-soldier who kills dozens to hundreds to people and how that changes someone. If so, fair enough; but 1) that's like deconstructing James Bond movies on the grounds nobody could save the world 15 times; the movies work because the fans expect continuity, it's never meant to be "realistic," and 2) some soldiers have done exactly that and turned out fine [so far as anyone can tell, anyway].
wait, hold on

article posted:

armor-piercing depleted uranium (DU) shells — which turn radioactive when superheated upon firing
*squint*

Chard posted:

having a gun descend into your hands from the heavens "deal with it" style.
That's pretty much the mystery deagle from earlier.

EDIT: I am now imagining it soaring majestically through the skies when Walker suddenly grabs it out of the air on his way down

Fish Noise fucked around with this message at 20:55 on Jun 29, 2015

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