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Kegslayer posted:I find it hilarious that the doctor needs to preserve human culture by only saving a bunch of mostly white middle class Americans. An alien race in Adams' Hitchhiker's Trilogy had the exact same idea. The theory is that boring middle management is what really makes the world work.
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Jun 12, 2015 16:49
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Kegslayer posted:I find it hilarious that the doctor needs to preserve human culture by only saving a bunch of mostly white middle class Americans. In fairness his pool of potential candidates appears to have been Seattle and Idaho.
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Jun 12, 2015 17:01
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precision posted:An alien race in Adams' Hitchhiker's Trilogy had the exact same idea. The theory is that boring middle management is what really makes the world work. Not quite true. That race decided to improve itself by jettisoning its middle-management type like salespeople, telephone sanitizers, bureaucrats, etc, preserving only the truly wealthy/powerful and the people who did actual real work. The idea worked wonderfully until the whole race died from a disease caught from an unsanitized telephone.
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Jun 12, 2015 19:33
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johntfs posted:Not quite true. That race decided to improve itself by jettisoning its middle-management type like salespeople, telephone sanitizers, bureaucrats, etc, preserving only the truly wealthy/powerful and the people who did actual real work. The idea worked wonderfully until the whole race died from a disease caught from an unsanitized telephone. Need to update the list: - Never fight a land war in Asia. - Never engage goons on HHGG lore. (In seriousness, I do remember you're right now, it's just been like 20 years since I re-read the series)
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Jun 12, 2015 19:54
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I'm not encouraged knowing that we'll still be using coins in 2095.
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Jun 12, 2015 21:46
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mincedgarlic posted:I'm not encouraged knowing that we'll still be using coins in 2095. I can't wait for the followup twist that it's only that part of america that's hosed and that the rest of the world is super advanced and doing a zoo within a zoo type thing.
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Jun 12, 2015 21:53
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It's either a stupid or a bold step to reveal all the mystery half the way through the series. I honestly don't see how the narrative could develop from this point on, besides some bad drama with the muppet son clashing against the parents.
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Jun 12, 2015 22:18
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Kin posted:Descendant/clone/froze himself and periodically woke up. He's the same age, or at least looks exactly the same, as in 2014, though. We know they've been freezing people since at least the 1980s. I guess they're unfreezing at slightly different times, hence the discrepancy in how long they've each been there? - How did the rest of the planet get destroyed, basically, but not this place? - Where did they store the bodies? How do they safely get them out? - How do they account for the differences that people know - IE Dillon is from 2014 and Lewis was from around 1990, so mentioning things about the internet and cell phones would be normal to him but she wouldn't know anything about that. - How do the people behind this know the climate wouldn't drastically change? How do they know what provisions to send? - Why are we only building craftsman homes 2000 years from now? - If these crazy creatures manage to take over the planet and destroy the human race (and most other species, it seems) why can't they climb the stupid fence? How come they ran right back out after Howard was killed? - How did they know to build this fence to keep out the creatures? - Why do they separate so many people from their families? Obviously someone is going to try much harder to get out if their spouse, kids, etc aren't with them. - Why did they pick a nurse who's such a bitch? - What the gently caress is the point of this show now?
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Jun 13, 2015 04:15
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People generally don't know they're from conflicting times because of the whole "don't talk about the past" rule. Also supposedly next episode is going to run down how the town is actually run. One thing that's kind of a weird red herring was at the start of the first episode there was that whole scene with Ethan in a psychiatrist's office where they were talking about how Ethan had previously had some kind of breakdown.
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Jun 13, 2015 04:40
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It's a shlocky show but most of the pieces fit if you bend the freezing hibernating thing enough. Except! How or why did Pope seek out Ethans family, wreck their car and preserve them? Also, who killed his partner and why in that fashion? Also, if it is really the last of the humanity, keeping the truth from the adults is a really dumb plot device. A few might despair at humanity dying , but you'd think that they would realize they have a chance to raise a new generation and do things right? Show is dumb.
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Jun 13, 2015 05:39
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muscles like this? posted:People generally don't know they're from conflicting times because of the whole "don't talk about the past" rule. Also supposedly next episode is going to run down how the town is actually run. Yeah, but everybody knows of a way to have an actual conversation without being heard just kind of offhand. Radios, washing machines, wandering out into the woods, music boxes.
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Jun 13, 2015 07:08
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Also his wifes' car looked like it hadn't been washed for two months, instead of standing there for 2000 years. I highly doubt none of the materials wouldn't degrade over time.
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Jun 13, 2015 08:46
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That twist was so dumb it actually made me mad for a second. I do not think this is a very good show and I do not know why I watched it so long.
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Jun 13, 2015 08:50
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meanolmrcloud posted:It's a shlocky show but most of the pieces fit if you bend the freezing hibernating thing enough. Except! How or why did Pope seek out Ethans family, wreck their car and preserve them? Also, who killed his partner and why in that fashion? Ethan's family was actively searching for Ethan and getting too close, just like Ethan and his partner when they were searching for Karen. Capturing them and preserving them just makes sense because, why not? You can never have too many preserved people on your civilization ark.
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Jun 13, 2015 08:53
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the kid is terrible
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Jun 13, 2015 09:33
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I'm guessing the kid will pick up a ham radio signal from another commune/the outside world, and things will go from there.
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Jun 13, 2015 09:55
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Profondo Rosso posted:the kid is terrible He's really the worst.
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Jun 13, 2015 14:06
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midnightclimax posted:Also his wifes' car looked like it hadn't been washed for two months, instead of standing there for 2000 years. I highly doubt none of the materials wouldn't degrade over time. That Boise road sign would have rusted into nothingness in less than 100 years. I suspect "The Truth" was "a lie".
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Jun 13, 2015 15:17
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meanolmrcloud posted:It's a shlocky show but most of the pieces fit if you bend the freezing hibernating thing enough. Except! How or why did Pope seek out Ethans family, wreck their car and preserve them? Also, who killed his partner and why in that fashion? These ones could fit into "the truth" fairly easily. She had already been frozen and transported to Wayward pines somehow before pope intervened and caused the car to crash in the future (to keep up appearances, force them into the hospital, whatever reason). Also, they might have unfrozen Ethan's partner first in order to test an "FBI agent here to help" plan which failed and they killed him. Ethan is take 2 on that plan? It seems like they've either thought of a deeply complex plot that's going to be convoluted enough to work or it's going to be full of holes and irritating to watch,
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Jun 13, 2015 16:09
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I think they fall a bit short in the LOST-copying when they have these conversations where people are supposed to be manipulated or deceived but so far basically at every point in the show, the dishonest party just seems casually dumb. It worked better in Lost where everyone was a genious ultra zealot. I guess this show can be good as long as it moves past the dumb poo poo at a brisk pace.
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Jun 13, 2015 17:05
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SteveVizsla posted:- How do the people behind this know the climate wouldn't drastically change? How do they know what provisions to send? Oh, the climate changed. Boise went from high desert at the base of the foothills  to a coastal pacific rainforest valley  so maybe Oregon fell into the sea?
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Jun 14, 2015 02:46
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This show is more interesting than I thought it was...
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Jun 14, 2015 16:31
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SteveVizsla posted:He's the same age, or at least looks exactly the same, as in 2014, though. We know they've been freezing people since at least the 1980s. Some speculation: - How did the rest of the planet get destroyed, basically, but not this place? I'm assuming 2095 is not a hard and fast date that things ended. That may have just been the end of paper money/coins. I'm surprised they lasted that long, quite frankly. And with inflation, unless artificially adjusted, a quarter would be worth less than a penny in 80 years. I think it was more of an Idiocracy style devolution, where society slowly collapsed and the survivors changed physically. The planet seems fine, it's just gone back to nature. As to how the town itself survived, I think it's related to the next question: - Where did they store the bodies? How do they safely get them out? Ethan was running around a giant parking garage, so there must be a massive underground facility designed to support the town. The cryochambers were there, as were the supplies needed to build the town. It's quite possible that there may have been a cadre of scientists and military types manning the Ark continuously for 2000 years, waiting to thaw out the older gene stock to repopulate. They would have been shielded from existence from the rest of the world by the government, and then just quietly erased from the record as the governments of the world fell. - How do the people behind this know the climate wouldn't drastically change? How do they know what provisions to send? Who knows what they have? Wayward Pines the town is probably the tip of a massive iceberg. - How do they account for the differences that people know - IE Dillon is from 2014 and Lewis was from around 1990, so mentioning things about the internet and cell phones would be normal to him but she wouldn't know anything about that. Doubtless this is why they have so many rules forbidding questions about their own pasts. Or questions in general. - If these crazy creatures manage to take over the planet and destroy the human race (and most other species, it seems) why can't they climb the stupid fence? How come they ran right back out after Howard was killed? I don't think they took over the planet and destroyed the human race. I think society collapsed and people turned into them. As to why the behave the way they do, we don't know enough about them yet. - How did they know to build this fence to keep out the creatures? Most likely they didn't know when the project was designed that humans would devolve into these specific creatures. I'd say Jenkins/Pilcher is basically a Hari Seldon/Davros type: a brilliant scientist who forsaw the end of his civilization and decided to make a long term plan to restore it. Unlike Seldon, he's probably using cryosleep to wake up at strategic points and become actively involved. Unlike Davros, even if he foresaw the devolution of humanity, his solution was to preserve the original gene pool, rather than accelerate the mutations and accomodate them with machinery. I'm betting that they decided to wait to build the actual town until society fully collapsed, so they had years to observe the Abbies and used the supplies they had to build the wall. Had they come out of the Ark while some intelligent humans remained, especially pockets of governance, they'd have been a target for plunder. The Abbies just seem to eat and breed, they don't want to steal things. - Why did they pick a nurse who's such a bitch? She doesn't seem to be a nurse. From her suited up presence on the helicopter ("You look like you could use a nurse!") she's probably military, and placed as an observer in the town for PIlcher. Other questions I've seen ITT: - Why are the cars not so dusty or completely decayed in the parking garage? As I said earlier, either a skeleton team lived through the 2000 years, or people woke up periodically to maintain poo poo. They probably keep even the wrecks somewhat clean, because they'd be valuable for parts. - Why did they just make a white American town to save humanity? Well I'd figure if Pilcher worked for the US government and they funded this project, they weren't going to make a multinational group of people. They were saving American society, not the world. And there are non-whites in the town, we've seen them. The late sheriff was one. - What the gently caress is the point of this show now? This is the bigger question, and in general "why just make a late 20th/early 21st century town?" Surely there were at least 80 more years of society, if not several hundred, to model it off of, use technology of, etc. They may have chosen to retard the tech levels due to needing things beyond basic phones or radio, with no external networks to connect to. But why keep the adults in the dark? Why kidnap randos off the street and put them in Stepford Town? Surely they could find heroic volunteers who believed in Pilcher's vision? Surely the adults could handle it--some might eat car exhaust, but others would step up. The better model would be the compound from Terra Nova--big walls, scientists and military types, going out on expeditions, etc. But there was some talk on the comments on IO9, either speculation or people who'd read the books, saying this is not the first group of adults they thawed. They tried other batches, but they ended up going nuts or revolting. So hiding the truth and revealing it to certain handpicked kids was the only way out. What I'd like to see though, is them moving away from the silliness of the perfect Stepford Town, and going out to rebuild things. Sending people on missions to scavenge tech, maybe run into other groups of intelligent human survivors. Maybe there's some assholes in a bunker from the 23rd century Mexican Empire or militant North Koreans or something. Hopefully it's not all small town drama and Abbies from here on out.
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Jun 14, 2015 22:17
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The show seems to be closer to The Prisoner (and Persons Unknown, though I couldn't watch that to its season end), rather than twin peaks. But it's still feels kind of... a trash summer sci-fi series. Even after the supposed "truth" reveal, there are things that don't make sense eg - Why bother making a point about Ethan seeing a psychiatrist, and the fact that he had hallucinations in the past. Just for a cop-out? - Why insist on Ethan having that brain blood sucking surgery (or somesuch)? - What was the point of trying to trick Ethan about the existence of the bar waitress? - What was the point of simulating the outgoing calls for him (to his home and to his agency) ? - Why would the public executions become an acceptable solution to people that break the rules, when it's clear that it is impossible not to break them, unless you are psychopath who enjoys the regime in the town? And those who would manage to leave town, they would be killed in a matter of seconds anyway. - Why would the citizens be happy with the executions? I mean except from a few faces, most of them were ecstatic about the sheriff slicing that woman's throat. And why then dump her hanging in that decrepit house? Why was the other agent dumped there too and not buried? - Why be so accommodating to Ethan and his family, when Ethan has broken every rule of theirs, tried to escape (with and without assistance), found ways to trick their surveillance (but rarely bothers with that and usually talks in public about all the weirdness), almost killed the nurse, totally killed the sheriff, etc? - And how come are the citizens ok with the whole "He got killed/disappeared, so now I got his job"? I mean, knowing the truth leads to suicide, but this poo poo does not? And there are a lot of other small details, that seem to be set up only for a minor twist in the story, but not well thought out to be consistent with what follows in the story. I'm actually surprised that this is based on a book series.
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Jun 14, 2015 22:33
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Personally I think the premise makes no sense, but I'll try to defend it anyway:Astroman posted:Some speculation: quote:I'm assuming 2095 is not a hard and fast date that things ended. That may have just been the end of paper money/coins. I'm surprised they lasted that long, quite frankly. And with inflation, unless artificially adjusted, a quarter would be worth less than a penny in 80 years. I think it was more of an Idiocracy style devolution, where society slowly collapsed and the survivors changed physically. The planet seems fine, it's just gone back to nature. As to how the town itself survived, I think it's related to the next question: 2095 may be the last year of the Foundation prior to the freezing of the Pines; or it may bear no significance at all. quote:- Where did they store the bodies? How do they safely get them out? quote:- How do the people behind this know the climate wouldn't drastically change? How do they know what provisions to send? quote:- How do they account for the differences that people know - IE Dillon is from 2014 and Lewis was from around 1990, so mentioning things about the internet and cell phones would be normal to him but she wouldn't know anything about that. Of course this makes no sense, because there is only a limited stock of frozen people, and killing them for natural curiosity means endangering the future of the human race. Also why is Burke given so many liberties, while others are murdered almost on whim? quote:- If these crazy creatures manage to take over the planet and destroy the human race (and most other species, it seems) why can't they climb the stupid fence? How come they ran right back out after Howard was killed? quote:- How did they know to build this fence to keep out the creatures? quote:- Why did they pick a nurse who's such a bitch? quote:- Why are the cars not so dusty or completely decayed in the parking garage? quote:- Why did they just make a white American town to save humanity? quote:- What the gently caress is the point of this show now? 1) Burke is chosen to lead the community after the good doctor, because he's a smart and powerful guy; but Burke tries to rebel against the authority laid upon his back, and brings the Pines close to destruction 2) The muppet son somehow endangers the town by being involved in stupid family drama.
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Jun 14, 2015 23:08
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The teacher is old but hot
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Jun 15, 2015 03:29
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Mustached5thGrader posted:The teacher is old but hot The old CIA agent is hot, actually.
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Jun 15, 2015 03:32
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Where are the oil production and refining plants? How about IC chip plants? Jet turbine blades? I don't think storing anything like that for 2000 years would work. And little underground machine shops wouldn't cut it either. Maybe there is a 'jump forward in time' machine?
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Jun 15, 2015 19:20
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The show took a turn for the totally insane but I'm enjoying it a lot, don't even care about the massive plot holes (or perceived plot holes that might be addressed later). It's fun to see a TV series go in a totally different direction than you expect - it's far more like The Prisoner, not much Twin Peaks (which I was expecting) or Lost. In terms of the defenses, I would say that if Matt Dillon can climb up a big cliff to get out of WP, the mutants could pretty easily scale down it to eat everybody in WP up.
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Jun 16, 2015 05:45
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AbstractNapper posted:- Why be so accommodating to Ethan and his family, when Ethan has broken every rule of theirs, tried to escape (with and without assistance), found ways to trick their surveillance (but rarely bothers with that and usually talks in public about all the weirdness), almost killed the nurse, totally killed the sheriff, etc? I don't know the full reason why, but I do know something: Pilcher thinks that Ethan is special, for some reason. Pilcher's the man who thought up the town, and it seems the people who know the town's secrets look up to him almost like a god (see how the teacher talks about him at the end of orientation). So Pilcher, the man most likely at the top of the town's food chain, has decided that Ethan is important, and so the town has to accept him breaking all of the rules and his family getting important positions ahead of long-term residents; Ethan becoming Sheriff over Pam, his wife getting to hand out homes over... whoever it was they said, and his son getting into the First Generation after only being in school for 2 days. I've got nothing on the rest of what you asked. Show's got a lot of explaining to do to cover those up, and I doubt it's gonna happen.
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Jun 18, 2015 02:10
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Oblivion4568238 posted:I don't know the full reason why, but I do know something: Pilcher thinks that Ethan is special, for some reason. Pilcher's the man who thought up the town, and it seems the people who know the town's secrets look up to him almost like a god (see how the teacher talks about him at the end of orientation). So Pilcher, the man most likely at the top of the town's food chain, has decided that Ethan is important, and so the town has to accept him breaking all of the rules and his family getting important positions ahead of long-term residents; Ethan becoming Sheriff over Pam, his wife getting to hand out homes over... whoever it was they said, and his son getting into the First Generation after only being in school for 2 days. Which of course begs the question, knowing what we now know about the timing--if Pilcher thought Ethan was so special (based on his files or whatever Pilcher knew about him before he was "selected" to got to Wayward Pines in 2015), why wait til now to wake him up? He could have woken up Ethan 20 years before, when the town was being set up to be the Sheriff then.
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Jun 18, 2015 04:56
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Could be they started with Pope and he became more and more unhinged over the years. Or they could just be switching gears, changing the town from the current authoritarian direction to one a little more moral.
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Jun 18, 2015 13:52
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Hasn't Ethan always been special though since he was the only one who could 'bring' his family? I don't really get the purpose of Ethan in the bigger picture, unless he's been groomed to take Pilcher's spot, since it's all about the first generation.
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Jun 18, 2015 14:53
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The other thing I don't get, is the "first generation" is all kids of roughly the same age, all of whom arrived from the outside, all apparently in school together, as we never see a "first generation" kid as a young adult. But we know the town has been around for something like 8-10 years at least. -Were all the kids awoken within the last couple of years? -Have no kids been born there?
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Jun 18, 2015 21:17
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My interpretation is that Ethan is special in that he's a strong spirit, with an unwavering sense of justice. The town gets polluted with corruptible individuals as more and more of them get unfrozen - Burke is unleashed upon them as a cleansing force, to bring the town towards a harmonious balance. It probably will misfire.
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Jun 18, 2015 23:36
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So do they have everyone's family on ice waiting for them to freak out? Why didn't they just thaw the Burke's out all at once? What was the point of letting Ethan run around killing/getting people killed if they've had his family in Vita-tubes or something for 2000 years.
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Jun 19, 2015 00:05
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Solice Kirsk posted:So do they have everyone's family on ice waiting for them to freak out? Why didn't they just thaw the Burke's out all at once? What was the point of letting Ethan run around killing/getting people killed if they've had his family in Vita-tubes or something for 2000 years. As a catalyst of the cleansing? To give him a sense of purpose? If they just integrated him into the town with no conflict, he would have no motivation to serve his purpose of identifying the dangerous links.
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Jun 19, 2015 00:09
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I believe the muppet (son) will gently caress poo poo up by interpreting his initiation as needing to antagonize his family. Also there will be a psychic individual wo will almost ruin the Wayward Pines, but will be defeated by a combination of cancer and a secret second town located at the edge of the world, whatever that may mean, with the purpose of overseeing the base
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Jun 19, 2015 00:11
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I think you guys are making a big mistake in assuming that episodes are written with any planning for how the following episodes will work out or any respect for what happened in the previous episodes. Remember that M Night Shyamalan is involved here, people.
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Jun 19, 2015 00:17
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It turns out the town was dead the whole time!
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Jun 19, 2015 00:19
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