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QuiteEasilyDone
Jul 2, 2010

Won't you play with me?

fjelltorsk posted:

Motronic: could you shed some light on something for me?

Why does american firefighters seem so stubborn not to don their masks when working a car fire? whenever i see a helmet video or a youtube clip of american fires most of the dudes manning the hose wear their airpacks on their back and the mask on the chest. I also see alot of guys hanging around getting exposed to the smoke for now good reason? One of the reason i ask was that we had two FDNY dudes hanging around our house for a month 2 years ago on a exchange thingie. They would call us out for being sissies for masking up early and often. i guess its just a cultural thing.

The norwegian SOP for car fires is one or two smokedivers in mask and full ppe putting out the fire and getting exposed, with one smoke diver in back up and the rest of the crew for support. This way you reduce the amount of bunker gear you have to bag for decom before rtb and for most car fires you really don´t need more than one dude spraying water or cafs anyhow.

/derail

What are you a pansy? A real man will walk into the smokiest, foulest of fires uncaring of such practicalities such as "carcinogens", "lung melting", or "debilitating lung cancer". :smug: :merica:

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Commodore_64
Feb 16, 2011

love thy likpa




Well, most auto wire insulation is still PVC, right? Polyvinyl chloride turns into some FUN stuff when burned. Nothing like breathing chlorine gas that quickly finds water in your lungs to turn into an acid! ABS gets you Hydrogen Cyanide! Oh boy.

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009

fjelltorsk posted:

Motronic: could you shed some light on something for me?

Why does american firefighters seem so stubborn not to don their masks when working a car fire?

I will kick my guys in the balls right on the fire ground for that kind of macho horse poo poo. It's stupid, but it's a pervasive problem in the US fire service because of watching too many episodes of Emergency and poo poo by guys who are too young to have ever been fighting fires before we didn't know this was a problem and long after demand draw packs where you could just hang your mask and take a hit off of it every once in a while when you "needed to."

It's definitely a department by department thing, but we have too many departments that still don't trust new fangled things like laptops with map books in trucks. Or electric valves on trucks. Or <insert well proven system made past 1980 here>.

Motronic fucked around with this message at 02:02 on Jun 7, 2015

Ferremit
Sep 14, 2007
if I haven't posted about MY LANDCRUISER yet, check my bullbars for kangaroo prints

Just with dry Chems, make sure you take them out of the car every six months and hold them up to your ear as you turn them upside down. The powder has a lovely habit of settling into a brick at the bottom of the cylinder with time and vibrations and won't come out when you press the trigger- you just get a pathetic wheeze of gas.

If you don't hear the powder running when you invert it, hold it upside down and hit it with a rubber mallet until it does run and then shake the poo poo out of it until it's loose again.

Godholio
Aug 28, 2002

Does a bear split in the woods near Zheleznogorsk?
This thread reminded me to check the gauge on my little extinguisher. I keep a 3-lb extinguisher under the seat. For anyone curious, the label says it's good for 8-12 seconds. That's not much time to do anything.

We got some hands-on extinguisher training at work for some reason. I actually learned a lot and would highly recommend anybody to sign up for something like that if you get the opportunity. Also learned why those plastic gas containers aren't supposed to be used for storage, so I'll be getting something like a jerry can as a replacement.

fjelltorsk
Sep 2, 2011

I am having a BALL

Motronic posted:

I will kick my guys in the balls right on the fire ground for that kind of macho horse poo poo. It's stupid, but it's a pervasive problem in the US fire service because of watching too many episodes of Emergency and poo poo by guys who are too young to have ever been fighting fires before we didn't know this was a problem and long after demand draw packs where you could just hang your mask and take a hit off of it every once in a while when you "needed to."

It's definitely a department by department thing, but we have too many departments that still don't trust new fangled things like laptops with map books in trucks. Or electric valves on trucks. Or <insert well proven system made past 1980 here>.

Good to hear that its getting better, carcinogens suck (ask my ball, lol)

The norwegian fire service had major doctrine update in 2001, and another in 08. the last 4 years i have really seen a more influx in new techniques and gear being tested, and getting written as sop when found to be an improvement. i cant wait to get back to doing regular shifts on the house when i get well so i can play with the new toys. i havent even get to drive our new narrow fire truck for narrow streets. You do still see some old school cowboy poo poo when colaborating with the vollies. We have an adjacent volunteer department on a small island we often get called to assist where the mask is a sign of weakness,escape routes are not to mentioned and coughing up soot after a fire is a badge of honour. luckily they mostly deal with grass fires and boating accidents.

atomicthumbs
Dec 26, 2010


We're in the business of extending man's senses.

Hypnolobster posted:

I keep a fancy 2.5lb halon extinguisher in my DD, which I only have because I bought it originally for my old ACVW that I sold. This reminds me that I really need an extinguisher for my apartment, too.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B004BZIK66

If yours is that MX250B, don't be surprised when you use it and powder comes out instead of halon; it's a dry chemical extinguisher.

Just as well, since Halotron 1 extinguishers seem to start around twice as expensive

fjelltorsk posted:

Why does american firefighters seem so stubborn not to don their masks when working a car fire?

atomicthumbs fucked around with this message at 07:50 on Jun 7, 2015

Thelonious
Jul 16, 2005

This is anecdotal, but in my experience working EMS in the Midwest, the small town vollie FD's have been more safety conscious than the larger full time departments.

Which makes it all the more ironic, because of the way that the full timers seem to look down at volunteers.

Mooseykins
Aug 9, 2013

Triangle tits and an annoying sex voice?

Fuuuuck youuuuu sluuuut!

Thelonious posted:

This is anecdotal, but in my experience working EMS in the Midwest, the small town vollie FD's have been more safety conscious than the larger full time departments.

Which makes it all the more ironic, because of the way that the full timers seem to look down at volunteers.

"Hahaha, look at these pussies taking safety and self-preservation seriously! It's almost like they don't want to die at 40 from inhaling carcinogens and smoke!" :v:

They don't do much of the macho poo poo here, but they do have to stop for a cup of tea before they go out on a call. :britain:

spog
Aug 7, 2004

It's your own bloody fault.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/..._rd_p=577138707



Coincidentally, for Brits, the ResQMe tool is going be an Amazon supersale tomorrow at 9am

Which I am hoping the firefighers here will tell me are a good idea to buy, since were not not allowed to carry big knives here.

Actually, on that subject, how do you break a car window in an emergency without a special tool? I have a swiss army knife, but I get the impression that it would struggle?

Mooseykins
Aug 9, 2013

Triangle tits and an annoying sex voice?

Fuuuuck youuuuu sluuuut!

spog posted:

Coincidentally, for Brits, the ResQMe tool is going be an Amazon supersale tomorrow at 9am

Which I am hoping the firefighers here will tell me are a good idea to buy, since were not not allowed to carry big knives here.

Actually, on that subject, how do you break a car window in an emergency without a special tool? I have a swiss army knife, but I get the impression that it would struggle?

I would get this instead, to keep in the car:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Lifehamme...=item4ae5a7fe6e

In the grey end is has the same kind of automatic centre punch mechanism but is much easier to break a window with.

From the inside, you want to hit the window in the middle with it. From the outside it's usually easier to attack a corner. (Due to the curve in the glass)

Not sure how you'd break a window with no tool. I know a couple of people who've punched windows through (macho macho man..) but they've both had broken/fractured fingers as a result. Just hit it with something solid i guess. I keep crow bars in the van for breaking down pallets and a tow bar in the car, so they'd work for it.

I also know someone who tried a plastic safety hammer on a scrap car window and the hammer broke. Imagine you get to a burning wreck and the loving window is stronger than your safety hammer. :stare:

Terrible Robot
Jul 2, 2010

FRIED CHICKEN
Slippery Tilde
The trick to breaking automotive safety glass is to have something pointy. Blunt force rarely ever breaks car windows alone, I've discus thrown old brake rotors at car windows and watched them just bounce right the gently caress off like it was steel :stare: But a few seconds with a sharp rock and they just crumbled.

clam ache
Sep 6, 2009
My uncle who has been a firefighter for the last 27 years of my life always told me, in order to break a window take something sharp and metal and have enough to strike the window sticking out from under my palm and just do a strong stabbing motion*. Then theres always the comedy option of keeping tiny pieces of spark plug porcelain since I have personally made that whip through glass a few times.

Edit: *this does not mean hold the knife part of a blade. Just like the end of a multitool or something metal and similar.

Vanagoon
Jan 20, 2008


Best Dead Gay Forums
on the whole Internet!
The busted up spark plug bits are called ninja rocks, or so I've heard. So named because they are drat good at breaking car windows quickly and quietly.

Godholio
Aug 28, 2002

Does a bear split in the woods near Zheleznogorsk?

Terrible Robot posted:

The trick to breaking automotive safety glass is to have something pointy. Blunt force rarely ever breaks car windows alone, I've discus thrown old brake rotors at car windows and watched them just bounce right the gently caress off like it was steel :stare: But a few seconds with a sharp rock and they just crumbled.

I tossed a minimag flashlight in through the open driver's window, but instead of bouncing and settling on the seat like I expected, it hit just perfectly to bounce and hit the passenger window. And pass right through, shattering it all over the loving place and landing outside the car. So apparently the trick is to try NOT to break the window.

fjelltorsk
Sep 2, 2011

I am having a BALL

Terrible Robot posted:

The trick to breaking automotive safety glass is to have something pointy. Blunt force rarely ever breaks car windows alone, I've discus thrown old brake rotors at car windows and watched them just bounce right the gently caress off like it was steel :stare: But a few seconds with a sharp rock and they just crumbled.

We use carbide tipped spikes with a small handle. i do have one of those in the door card. but they look kinda like a shank, so i also have on of those carbide breaker/seat belt knife that is fastened with velcro to the extinguisher in the cabin. No need to look all mad max if the police search your car. The carbide spiked we use requires a force similar to that required to get your knife to stand in a log. so no need for hulk forces

McMadCow
Jan 19, 2005

With our rifles and grenades and some help from God.
Has anyone tried this particular solution in their Boxster/Cayman? I had an extinguisher in my old car but I haven't been able to figure out a safe mounting point for my 986 and this seems great as long as it doesn't get in the way of my legs.

EDIT: Hurr, no link.
http://www.amazon.com/SpeedTactics-Porsche-extinguisher-bracket-Panamera/dp/B00GDHKWAW

McMadCow fucked around with this message at 23:23 on Jun 7, 2015

Vanagoon
Jan 20, 2008


Best Dead Gay Forums
on the whole Internet!
Since I'm the vanagon goon I should add check your fuel lines!

http://www.xoomee.com/project/vanagon-fuel-line-replacement/

There's a plastic fuel line fitting up at the firewall on the vanagon that's plastic for some insane reason, and it'll break off and douse the engine in fuel. Replace that one with a metal one like so:

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7352163

Vanagoon fucked around with this message at 19:37 on Jun 7, 2015

atomicthumbs
Dec 26, 2010


We're in the business of extending man's senses.

Mooseykins posted:

Not sure how you'd break a window with no tool.

Well, if it's down enough to get your fingers in, see around 2 minutes into this video

Applebees Appetizer
Jan 23, 2006

That guy is a loving idiot and deserved everything he got.

"I'm not driving, I'm traveling" :rolleyes:

astrollinthepork
Sep 24, 2007

When you come at the king, you best not miss, snitch

HE KNOWS
Just a sovereign citizen nutjob

Applebees Appetizer
Jan 23, 2006

Ah ok, one of those. So they're all idiots basically.

kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.
Sucks, man :sigh:

Sometimes you're just too late.

I've been carrying an extinguisher in every car I care about since 2009, when I joined an offroad club and one of their requirements for trail rides was to carry an extinguisher. At first it was just one of those little baby 2.5lb units that is basically useless. I carry 10-pounders now.

Someone in the midwest chapter of the club had an electrical fire* result in the fuel system catching fire as well a while back. One person was hospitalized with burns to one of their feet, everyone else was fine, the jeep is still wheeling today. However, it took over fifty of the little 2.5lb fire extinguishers to put it out, and they started using them about as soon as there was evidence of a fire. The only reason it wasn't a total loss is because it happened at an offroad park, in a well-traveled area, with most people on the same CB channel and everyone equipped with a fire extinguisher.

Carry fire/theft insurance on your car. Carry the largest extinguisher you can, if you actually care about the car. Don't leave it in the trunk, it needs to be within arms reach at most. TURN THE IGNITION OFF AS SOON AS YOU HAVE ANY HINT OF A FIRE, this turns the fuel pump off so at least things will stop getting worse. Remember this may lock your steering column so turn it to off, then turn it back to accessory if you are still rolling and need to steer to the side of the road. Don't open the hood, it gives the fire more air. And last but certainly not least, GET OUT IMMEDIATELY.

One of those life hammers isn't a bad idea either. The only time I've had to rescue someone from a wreck, there was no fire fortunately, and it happened in front of the shop I was working at, less than 100 feet away. Doors were jammed shut but some rather enthusiastic pulling by my coworkers and I got them open.

* this is why it scares me when people who don't know how to do wiring properly do it. Bad wiring practices are pandemic among gearheads and it can result in a total loss and serious injuries far too easily. Yes, "people who don't know how to do wiring properly" includes some OEMs :v:

Godholio
Aug 28, 2002

Does a bear split in the woods near Zheleznogorsk?

atomicthumbs posted:

Well, if it's down enough to get your fingers in, see around 2 minutes into this video

I love this video.

sharkytm
Oct 9, 2003

Ba

By

Sharkytm doot doo do doot do doo


Fallen Rib

Terrible Robot posted:

The trick to breaking automotive safety glass is to have something pointy. Blunt force rarely ever breaks car windows alone, I've discus thrown old brake rotors at car windows and watched them just bounce right the gently caress off like it was steel :stare: But a few seconds with a sharp rock and they just crumbled.

Also, don't hit the window frame. :nws:
http://imgur.com/XMIVhcV :nws:

I used my Leatherman, back hand. Middle of the window, took three hard strikes to break, and then my arm swung through the now-broken window and impaled itself on the frame. 33 stitches, and some hilarious X rays of the glass embedded in my arm.

IOwnCalculus
Apr 2, 2003





kastein posted:

TURN THE IGNITION OFF AS SOON AS YOU HAVE ANY HINT OF A FIRE, this turns the fuel pump off so at least things will stop getting worse.

Apparently, forgetting this step earned my dad a little infamy when his 911 went all ACVW during an autocross. The fact that there were a bunch of corner workers nearby with extinguishers kept it from being a total loss, but it was still a massive repair.

Ferremit
Sep 14, 2007
if I haven't posted about MY LANDCRUISER yet, check my bullbars for kangaroo prints

Dont hit the window full blast in the middle either- Safety glass is hilariously weak on corners so the upper right corner is generally the easiest point to break. We've done training with the Country Fire Service where we lined up a bunch of doors and tried to break the windows out of them with various things. Full swing with a ball pein hammer into the middle of a window will make it bounce off, but a tap with small phillips head screwdriver in the top right corner will make it shatter like you shot it with a shot gun

randomidiot
May 12, 2006

by Fluffdaddy

(and can't post for 11 years!)

Enourmo posted:

I still occasionally meet people who bitch about seat belts.

My stepdad refuses to wear his. Anytime he's in the car with me, I tell him the car isn't moving until he puts it on. If he takes it off while i'm driving, he finds out how hard my dash is and how well my brakes work. I absolutely refuse to get in a car with him behind the wheel, between him refusing to wear a seat belt, and how horrible of a driver he is (how do you rack up 6 tickets in a year without losing your license anyway?).

Vanagoon posted:

I think these are the same group of grognards who bitch about fuel injection. They don't need "The computer" telling them how their drat engine is going to run.

See above. Despite the fact that his 14 year old truck (2001 F-150) has only left him stranded when the fuel pump took a poo poo (he got it when it was 2 years old or so), and gets double the mileage of the same model truck that I was handed down in high school (1980 F-150, I usually got 8 mpg highway, with a similarly sized engine, and less than half the horsepower, and it left me stranded constantly). And the truck he had before this one (a 1992 F-150) made it to almost 275k with nothing more than a starter and alternator before the transmission took a poo poo (did I mention he regularly pulled a trailer that was at least double the rated towing capacity of the truck?). He still thought it was worth getting towed over 100 miles home and dropping over $2k getting the transmission rebuilt, and drove it to nearly 300k before he decided "it smokes slightly at startup, it's a pile of poo poo now".

The only other time his trucks have broken down have been from worn out batteries. He wanted to get rid of his current truck when the last battery took a poo poo, until I stuck a multimeter on it, we jumped it, let it run for about half an hour, then shut it off, and I showed him how quickly the battery died (it went from the ~13.8V of the alternator to <10V within 60 seconds, and was down to under 8 volts within 5 minutes).

He still insisted it was a pile of poo poo for about a week after I put the cheapest possible battery I could find in it. Only issue it's had since then (almost 3 years ago, I think?) is the CD changer jammed.

Domus posted:

Please don't hesitate to help someone in an emergency due to fear of legal ramifications. Most countries have good Samaritan laws, legally protecting anyone who tries to help a person in immediate danger.

This. In the US, there's some loopholes that expose first responders to legal issues (since they're the "professionals"), but the OP tried to get the driver out and was driven back by the heat, even in full riding gear (which we can probably assume was mostly leather, so that fire was very far along by then). :smith:

kastein posted:

Carry fire/theft insurance on your car. Carry the largest extinguisher you can, if you actually care about the car. Don't leave it in the trunk, it needs to be within arms reach at most. TURN THE IGNITION OFF AS SOON AS YOU HAVE ANY HINT OF A FIRE, this turns the fuel pump off so at least things will stop getting worse. Remember this may lock your steering column so turn it to off, then turn it back to accessory if you are still rolling and need to steer to the side of the road. Don't open the hood, it gives the fire more air. And last but certainly not least, GET OUT IMMEDIATELY.

We really need to just quote this and take it to heart as if it's straight out of the Automotive Bible. Especially the ignition switch and insurance parts - comprehensive adds so hilariously little to your premiums, even with a low deductible (mine is $250), but so many people only carry liability. I don't care if it's a $500 beater, toss comprehensive on it, your insurance may wind up valuing it higher than you think if it has 4 round wheels and can move under its own power before the fire/theft/whatever. Also a good reason NOT to keep receipts in the car, keep them at home (better yet, do what I do and scan them, put them on a cloud server, and use the car maker's website to track maintenance - I use GM's Owner Center to keep track of everything) - those new tires you just put on won't be recognizable once the fire is out, nor will the new injectors, or any other work recently done that may have brought up the value.

If it's a vehicle old enough to have a carb, it's possible it has a mechanical fuel pump, so simply shutting off the ignition won't do anything to remove fuel from the fire - only the engine physically stopping will do that. Really depends on the vehicle, the mechanical pumps were far more common up until the early-mid 1980s, and mostly common on domestics (Honda switched to electric pumps in the mid 80s, for example - to the best of my knowledge anyway).

If I have another car fire, I'll try and put it out if I catch it early enough, but otherwise I'm pulling as far off the road as I can, grabbing my phone (and hopefully backpack, since it has all my meds + laptop, and lives on the passenger floorboard), and getting the gently caress out. First call will be to 911 with the location, followed immediately by a call to my insurance company to state "my car is on fire, I've already called 911, but I need to start the claims process". My car has a liner on the underside of the hood, plus a plastic cover over the engine itself, so there's a drat good chance it'll be too far along for me to even think about trying to touch it with an extinguisher by the time I get off the road.

astrollinthepork
Sep 24, 2007

When you come at the king, you best not miss, snitch

HE KNOWS
Super light polyester and mesh actually. A little more than a t shirt as far as heat resistance goes. The chest of my jacket has a fused weave now.

You shouldn't be worried about litigation in regards to first aid. People are not as litigious as common perception would lead you to believe. Good samartian laws protecting you from liability are very much a thing, including a very strong one right here in Ohio. On top that, I am AHA certified which is an extremely easy thing to do that I recommend whole heartedly.

Here is a link directing you to classes in your area.
http://ahainstructornetwork.americanheart.org/AHAECC/classConnector.jsp?pid=ahaecc.classconnector.home

The Royal Nonesuch
Nov 1, 2005

some texas redneck posted:

This. In the US, there's some loopholes that expose first responders to legal issues (since they're the "professionals")

If you have first-hand knowledge on this I'd be keen to hear it - I work at a institution that has a significant tourist flow and one of my main job duties is first responder.

The Royal Nonesuch fucked around with this message at 03:14 on Jun 10, 2015

spog
Aug 7, 2004

It's your own bloody fault.

kastein posted:

Someone in the midwest chapter of the club had an electrical fire* result in the fuel system catching fire as well a while back. One person was hospitalized with burns to one of their feet, everyone else was fine, the jeep is still wheeling today. However, it took over fifty of the little 2.5lb fire extinguishers to put it out, and they started using them about as soon as there was evidence of a fire.

This is a hilarious image: you guys gang-banged a jeep.

In fact, now I think about, did you form a queue; each of you making awkward small talk before taking your turn in the spotlight, only to for it to be over in a disappointingly small time, then join the growing group of the spent, avoiding eye contact and not mentioning your failures to each other?

McMadCow
Jan 19, 2005

With our rifles and grenades and some help from God.

kastein posted:

TURN THE IGNITION OFF AS SOON AS YOU HAVE ANY HINT OF A FIRE, this turns the fuel pump off so at least things will stop getting worse. Remember this may lock your steering column so turn it to off, then turn it back to accessory if you are still rolling and need to steer to the side of the road.

If you don't care too much about keeping the car stock, consider wiring in a fuel pump switch. I did this on my engine swapped '74 2002. I put it on its own circuit and relay, and the switch was up on the dash. I had a constant battle with the old electrics in that car burning up under the hood, being able to kill the fuel flow was just good common sense.

door Door door
Feb 26, 2006

Fugee Face

In relatively modern stick cars (2000+), will the fuel pump cut off after the engine stalls in a crash, or will it keep going until the ignition is turned to off?

drzrma
Dec 29, 2008
From above sounds like it should in most cases, but as they said over and over in our rescue class every crash is different. I started religiously carrying an extinguisher after a car I was parked next to caught fire, was really embarrassing to not be able to do anything but offer my phone and move my car after I'd verified there wasn't anybody stuck in the burning one. Don't buy Kidde extinguishers if you can avoid it, although anything is better than nothing. Should go without saying but if you carry an extinguisher know how to use it, the rural department I was with had an extinguisher training prop and were happy to bring it out and educate. A surprising number of people, even after reading the instructions and listening to the very short and simple lesson that we gave, took a couple tries to actually get it right. Please don't wait till your kitchen/garage/car/cat/whatever is on fire. For building or boat fires don't feel bad just ripping the loving extinguisher off the wall or bulkhead, small extinguishers need to be used right loving now and in the right place in order to have any chance of success, although two people applying two extinguishers simultaneously is generally better than one after the other.

Under no circumstances should you compromise your own safety however, make sure you always have a clear exit path. No points for heroics that then result in you needing rescue. Remember to inspect your extinguishers regularly as well, this includes agitating dry chem extinguishers to prevent the agent from caking. It doesn't dispense well if it has settled into a solid lump at the bottom of the extinguisher.

kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.

door Door door posted:

In relatively modern stick cars (2000+), will the fuel pump cut off after the engine stalls in a crash, or will it keep going until the ignition is turned to off?

That depends. Some will shut the fuel pump off if they don't see a crank position sensor signal for too long, others won't. Safe option is to just turn it off.

At some point I should put together a general "how to wire a car for safety, reliability, and serviceability" thread, but I haven't gotten around to it yet.

randomidiot
May 12, 2006

by Fluffdaddy

(and can't post for 11 years!)

door Door door posted:

In relatively modern stick cars (2000+), will the fuel pump cut off after the engine stalls in a crash, or will it keep going until the ignition is turned to off?

Generally, the engine computer shuts off the engine as soon as it senses that the engine has stalled. There's still enough remaining pressure in the lines to add fuel to the fire (.... literally and figuratively) though. It only takes one drop of fuel and an ignition source to start a fire. If the engine was hot enough, gas hitting the exhaust manifold could potentially start a fire, and a lot of FWD cars have reversed the orientation of their engines so that the exhaust is on the firewall side. Diesel is a bit harder to ignite, but can still burn if poo poo is hot enough.

Like kastein said, it's safest to just assume that the fuel pump will happily keep pumping away until the ignition is shut off, and even then.... you don't know if the ECU may have been damaged in such a way that it continues to supply power to the fuel pump, or if wiring was damaged and somehow shorted that could potentially cause the same issue (such as a relay being crushed in such a way that it can't turn off). This isn't exactly a common thing, but when you're dealing with a vehicle full of flammable chemicals (about the only fluid in a car that's not flammable is coolant), it's best to be as cautious as possible as long as nobody is in immediate danger of further injuries (or worse).

The Royal Nonesuch posted:

If you have first-hand knowledge on this I'd be keen to hear it

No first hand knowledge, it's just been beaten into my head several times. And by first responders I meant fire/ems/police, not a private employee.

I've been told not to touch an injured person by multiple employers as well though, more because they don't want the liability. And not to apologize, because apparently that admits liability. :confused: I got ripped a new rear end in a top hat by one manager once when a diabetic came up to me at work and told me they felt like their blood sugar was low (she was shaking really bad too); I ran and got them orange juice and a chair, told her I'd be calling medics, and asked if she'd like me to contact her family, and stayed with her until medics arrived. Apparently the fact that I got orange juice for her "opened us up to a lawsuit". :fuckoff: I found out last year that I'm diabetic, so I'd be pretty pissed off if I told someone I needed sugar and asked where I could find a sugary drink, and was told "sorry, my boss said I can't do anything except call 911".

(she wound up being fine after a couple of bottles of OJ, medics came out and checked her blood sugar and determined it was low, but was coming up, and she left with a family member - my boss was glad I reacted, store manager was happy she left in better shape, corporate was very unhappy that I even acknowledged her)

randomidiot fucked around with this message at 04:48 on Jun 9, 2015

revmoo
May 25, 2006

#basta
Wayyyy off topic but isn't that hypoglycemia not diabetes? I thought diabetes was when you had too much blood sugar.

Safety Dance
Sep 10, 2007

Five degrees to starboard!

Diabetes is a general term for a few conditions that make the body unable to regulate its blood sugar. In most people, this leads to high blood sugar (and, if poorly controlled, all sorts of complications). It's possible for a person with well-controlled diabetes to make a mistake -- too much insulin, miss a meal they were expecting to eat, etc. -- and suffer from low blood sugar instead.

Computer viking
May 30, 2011
Now with less breakage.

Safety Dance posted:

Diabetes is a general term for a few conditions that make the body unable to regulate its blood sugar. In most people, this leads to high blood sugar (and, if poorly controlled, all sorts of complications). It's possible for a person with well-controlled diabetes to make a mistake -- too much insulin, miss a meal they were expecting to eat, etc. -- and suffer from low blood sugar instead.

Though living with a diabetic (diabetes 1, where the body doesn't make any insulin at all), not carrying a glucose meter and ideally some emergency sugar when planning to spend a while out in public sounds ... strange towards irresponsible.

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door Door door
Feb 26, 2006

Fugee Face

some texas redneck posted:

Generally, the engine computer shuts off the engine as soon as it senses that the engine has stalled. There's still enough remaining pressure in the lines to add fuel to the fire (.... literally and figuratively) though. It only takes one drop of fuel and an ignition source to start a fire. If the engine was hot enough, gas hitting the exhaust manifold could potentially start a fire, and a lot of FWD cars have reversed the orientation of their engines so that the exhaust is on the firewall side. Diesel is a bit harder to ignite, but can still burn if poo poo is hot enough.

Like kastein said, it's safest to just assume that the fuel pump will happily keep pumping away until the ignition is shut off, and even then.... you don't know if the ECU may have been damaged in such a way that it continues to supply power to the fuel pump, or if wiring was damaged and somehow shorted that could potentially cause the same issue (such as a relay being crushed in such a way that it can't turn off). This isn't exactly a common thing, but when you're dealing with a vehicle full of flammable chemicals (about the only fluid in a car that's not flammable is coolant), it's best to be as cautious as possible as long as nobody is in immediate danger of further injuries (or worse).


Good to know.

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