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  • Locked thread
Benson Cunningham
Dec 9, 2006

Chief of J.U.N.K.E.R. H.Q.


I hope there is time travel.

Think about it. Hints at time travel all season. A long build up. Show something or some sequence of events that could possibly be construed as time travel.

And then Elliot takes down White Rose and destroys the device before it can be activated on screen. You're always left wondering if it would have worked, if it did work in the past, and what happens now.

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maskenfreiheit
Dec 30, 2004


I think people keep flossing over the fact the address who played Young Angela this season was the same one as the little girl in the room last season.

So does that mean Angela met her past self in that room? Or just someone who looks like her? 🤔

DaveKap
Feb 5, 2006

Pickle: Inspected.





Martian Manfucker posted:

I never thought watching television was a skill that some people could lack until I found TVIV. I will ban myself if season 4 or 5 features literal alternate dimensions and/or time travel. I can't think of anything more thematically distant to Mr Robot than actual time traveling illuminati, jesus christ.
You sure are mad about people falling for a trick made by a show runner to force online speculation.

maskenfreiheit posted:

I think people keep flossing over the fact the address who played Young Angela this season was the same one as the little girl in the room last season.

So does that mean Angela met her past self in that room? Or just someone who looks like her? 🤔
I haven't glossed over it but uhhh some folks are just so ardently against the idea that something weird happened there that they'd rather ignore it. I'll say it again though, we've got 4 things that will happen before this show ends:
1- They never show what happened in that room and Mr. Robot becomes Lost.
2- They show it and it's just some form of hypnosis. Yawn.
3- They show it and it's something time-travel/inter-dimensional related.
4- They do something nobody here has guessed at yet.
At this point, the only good options are 3 and 4 but the ardent realists (who, at this point, are probably right since it's a bit on the late side for explaining how Whiterose "manipulates" people) still have yet to come up with anything other than option 1/2 so either they're right and the show is Lost/boring or they're wrong and we get something unrealistic or unpredictable.

I'm betting on #4 but that's only because I really want this show to wrap up on a high note.

Edit: It is worth noting that plenty of folks have said that what we saw was what Angela saw and her perspective is as accurate and reliable as Elliot's is. Alternately she was convinced because "wishing was the good part" or whatever it is Elliot talked to her about through her front door. Either way, it isn't explained what happened in that room to make her devoted to Whiterose.

DaveKap fucked around with this message at 08:15 on Dec 20, 2017

DeafNote
Jun 4, 2014

Only Happy When It Rains


DaveKap posted:

You sure are mad about people falling for a trick made by a show runner to force online speculation.

I haven't glossed over it but uhhh some folks are just so ardently against the idea that something weird happened there that they'd rather ignore it. I'll say it again though, we've got 4 things that will happen before this show ends:
1- They never show what happened in that room and Mr. Robot becomes Lost.
2- They show it and it's just some form of hypnosis. Yawn.
3- They show it and it's something time-travel/inter-dimensional related.
4- They do something nobody here has guessed at yet.
At this point, the only good options are 3 and 4 but the ardent realists (who, at this point, are probably right since it's a bit on the late side for explaining how Whiterose "manipulates" people) still have yet to come up with anything other than option 1/2 so either they're right and the show is Lost/boring or they're wrong and we get something unrealistic or unpredictable.

I'm betting on #4 but that's only because I really want this show to wrap up on a high note.

Edit: It is worth noting that plenty of folks have said that what we saw was what Angela saw and her perspective is as accurate and reliable as Elliot's is. Alternately she was convinced because "wishing was the good part" or whatever it is Elliot talked to her about through her front door. Either way, it isn't explained what happened in that room to make her devoted to Whiterose.

I am pretty sure LOST was option 3

DaveKap
Feb 5, 2006

Pickle: Inspected.





DeafNote posted:

I am pretty sure LOST was option 3
The wiki page delineating every single thing that went unexplained on Lost begs to differ. As it is, there is very little about Mr. Robot that is a mystery of import. Honestly, outside of "wtf happened to Angela" which is directly related to "how does Whiterose manipulate people" and "what is Whiterose's ultimate goal" I'm at a loss for what else it is we need to know about. The best mystery reveals are typically those you didn't even realize were mysteries. Darlene being a sister, Mr. Robot being dad and inside Elliot's head, the prison, and not being pushed out of a window were all things that were not direct questions needing answering, they were simply misrepresented or undivulged facts. Finding them out was interesting because we weren't seeking an answer to them in the first place. Hell, the question of "why does Price like Angela so much" wasn't even a very directly-asked question on the show, more one the audience caught onto and started asking and once revealed, wasn't all that surprising to anyone since it was hastily guessed-at by plenty of people once we saw the way he was treating her.

Leaving behind direct questions that need answering is what I mean when I say a show is becoming Lost. Twin Peaks Season 3 was Lost, for certain, but that's what everyone expected of it so that's fine. I don't think it's fine if Mr. Robot leaves anything to the imagination when all is said and done unless it pulls off some artistic ending trying to comment on the state of the mind blah blah blah but, whatever it is, it won't make not knowing Angela's experience feel like an OK thing to leave out.

Edit: BTW a random thing that went unmentioned since the finale... Price saying that he's Angela's father "but not really" because he didn't raise her? That's more humble than I expected out of him and kinda made me feel warm fuzzies when he said it.

DaveKap fucked around with this message at 10:40 on Dec 20, 2017

Elias_Maluco
Aug 23, 2007
I need to sleep

It would make no sense that Whiterose plant/secret project if something related to bitcoin mining because that plant/project is much older than bitcoins, since its also responsible for the death of Elliot's father and Angela's mother a long time ago

We dont know what that is, but Im 100% certain that it is something about a ground-breaking tech that does not exists on the real world. I might be that Price is right: Whiterose is insane and delusional, and her project is just that: crazyness.

But how likely it is that this TV show would hint about this super secret project being something fantastic for 3 seasons, make it the motivation behind the main villain actions, a villain who is pictured as some kind of super genius, ahead of a super powerful international crime organization doing all kinds of crazy awful stuff (like killing thousands and making China annex a country) just to advance the project, all this just to finally reveal that.... Whiterose is just mad and did it all for a stupid insane delusion?

I think is very unlikely

Balthesar
Sep 4, 2006

by Fluffdaddy


Elias_Maluco posted:

It would make no sense that Whiterose plant/secret project if something related to bitcoin mining because that plant/project is much older than bitcoins, since its also responsible for the death of Elliot's father and Angela's mother a long time ago

Thanks for bringing this up, I didnít think about the plant at all.

Iím on board with the quantum computer. And Elliot will discern how it works in about 15 seconds because he is Hackerman.

Metis of the Hallway
Aug 1, 2014




Lost answered the major thematic questions is posed, not to everyone's satisfaction certainly, but the things it left unanswered are mostly little finicky things. Lost was a Good Show, with a (mostly) Good Ending. If Mr Robot ended up like Lost that would be fine with me, because I loved Lost!

Buuut I know what you mean when you say you're afraid Mr Robot will end up that way. Lost was a hugely flawed show, but I think most "mystery box" type shows that follow in its footsteps have learned from its mistakes, such that I don't think major concepts like the presence time travel and alternate dimensions are just red herrings. Will actual time travel etc happen in show? I don't really think so, but it seems incredibly likely that Whiterose not only believes in it but is obsessed by it, which drives all her actions and will probably lead to some kind of breakdown or character epiphany if/when she finally finds out that despite all her work and sacrifices it is impossible.

That would be a very Mr Robot conclusion to me!

siggy2021
Mar 8, 2010


Maybe I've missed something, but can someone give an example of when Whiterose has been portrayed as a "Super Genius?"

She's certainly been portrayed as a rich, powerful, very eccentric person. We've also seen lately that she can become quite unhinged, and I believe Irving mentioned something about it in the last episode.

Imagine you are meeting with someone, their watch beeps and then they tell you you are out of time and walk away. You would definitely think that person is a little odd, if not straight up crazy.

Weaponized Autism
Mar 26, 2006

All aboard the Gravy train!

Hair Elf

The series finale will be Elliot time traveling back to Nazi Germany and killing Hitler while he's on the shitter.

*cue the piano cover for Where Is My Mind*

Mike the TV
Jan 14, 2008

Ninety-nine ninety-nine ninety-nine



Pillbug

White Rose controls people by giving them delusions and alternate personalities. She did it to Elliot as a child, his dad found out and was killed for it, and that's why White Rose trusts Elliot. The project is a machine that will cause similar delusions to the rest of the world. There- SciFi without time travel.

T-man
Aug 22, 2010


Talk shit, get bzzzt.



Elliot doesn't actually exist, mystery solved lock thread tia.

Craptacular!
Jul 9, 2001

Fuck the DH


Dumb question: I have every episode of this show on my DVR, and I'm not sure I want to read a bunch of spoilery posts to find out if the opinion on this show is good or not. Is it still worth watching at this point? From the beginning to now? Or is it one of those shows like Glee where the thread is hate-watching and I should walk away after the first season?

I know this is a really awkward and subjective ask, but basically I want to know if it's good or not because my DVR is slowly collecting a lot of episodes of this show and I'll watch em eventually if you goons think it's great or clear out a shitload if not.

Krime
Jul 30, 2003

Somebody has to do the scoring around here.


Craptacular! posted:

Dumb question: I have every episode of this show on my DVR, and I'm not sure I want to read a bunch of spoilery posts to find out if the opinion on this show is good or not. Is it still worth watching at this point? From the beginning to now? Or is it one of those shows like Glee where the thread is hate-watching and I should walk away after the first season?

I know this is a really awkward and subjective ask, but basically I want to know if it's good or not because my DVR is slowly collecting a lot of episodes of this show and I'll watch em eventually if you goons think it's great or clear out a shitload if not.

It is a very good show. Watch it all.

Gobbeldygook
May 13, 2009
Hates Native American people and tries to justify their genocides.

Put this racist on ignore immediately!


Craptacular! posted:

Dumb question: I have every episode of this show on my DVR, and I'm not sure I want to read a bunch of spoilery posts to find out if the opinion on this show is good or not. Is it still worth watching at this point? From the beginning to now? Or is it one of those shows like Glee where the thread is hate-watching and I should walk away after the first season?

I know this is a really awkward and subjective ask, but basically I want to know if it's good or not because my DVR is slowly collecting a lot of episodes of this show and I'll watch em eventually if you goons think it's great or clear out a shitload if not.
No, goon enjoyment of Mr. Robot is real and sincere. It has not degenerated into a modern Dexter.

Zaphod42
Sep 13, 2012

If there's anything more important than my ego around, I want it caught and shot now.


maskenfreiheit posted:

I think people keep flossing over the fact the address who played Young Angela this season was the same one as the little girl in the room last season.

So does that mean Angela met her past self in that room? Or just someone who looks like her? 🤔

Do you think Elliot is dead and living in the afterlife? Its called unreliable narrator.

GutBomb
Jun 15, 2005

Dude?


If every weird thing in the show ends up as "lol Elliot is an unreliable narrator" that's going to be a pretty disappointing ending.

GutBomb fucked around with this message at 21:01 on Dec 20, 2017

Zaphod42
Sep 13, 2012

If there's anything more important than my ego around, I want it caught and shot now.


GutBomb posted:

If every weird thing in the show ends up as "lol Elliot is an unreliable narrator" that's going to be a pretty disappointing ending.

Every weird thing? That's an odd dichotomy. Can't just ... some things end up that way? :v:

We know for a fact that this show is willing to mislead the audience. Perception is one of the key themes.

Mike the TV posted:

White Rose controls people by giving them delusions and alternate personalities. She did it to Elliot as a child, his dad found out and was killed for it, and that's why White Rose trusts Elliot. The project is a machine that will cause similar delusions to the rest of the world. There- SciFi without time travel.

That feels a little too Dr. Who for something like Mr. Robot.

fuckpot
May 20, 2007

Lurking beneath the water
The future Immortal awaits

Team Anasta


maskenfreiheit posted:

I think people keep flossing over the fact the address who played Young Angela this season was the same one as the little girl in the room last season.

So does that mean Angela met her past self in that room? Or just someone who looks like her? 🤔
Angela is also an android. Androids don't age, and a new one has to be built every year to solve this problem. Angela was talking to her android younger self. Also glossing.

Zaphod42
Sep 13, 2012

If there's anything more important than my ego around, I want it caught and shot now.


Gluten Freeman posted:

Lost answered the major thematic questions is posed, not to everyone's satisfaction certainly, but the things it left unanswered are mostly little finicky things.

No way. Lost wrote themselves into a corner with no plan for an ending and just kinda tossed up their hands and said :shrug: Okay, its magic, we lied before when we said it wasn't going to be magic.

I mean the problems aren't really thematic, but they're not little finicky things either.

GutBomb posted:

If every weird thing in the show ends up as "lol Elliot is an unreliable narrator" that's going to be a pretty disappointing ending.

It'd also be weird if a show that deceives its audience on the regular just suddenly... stopped doing that and played everything straight.

maskenfreiheit
Dec 30, 2004


Gobbeldygook posted:

No, goon enjoyment of Mr. Robot is real and sincere. It has not degenerated into a modern Dexter.

don't you dare sully mr robot by comparing it to that filth

DaveKap
Feb 5, 2006

Pickle: Inspected.





Craptacular! posted:

Dumb question: I have every episode of this show on my DVR, and I'm not sure I want to read a bunch of spoilery posts to find out if the opinion on this show is good or not. Is it still worth watching at this point? From the beginning to now? Or is it one of those shows like Glee where the thread is hate-watching and I should walk away after the first season?

I know this is a really awkward and subjective ask, but basically I want to know if it's good or not because my DVR is slowly collecting a lot of episodes of this show and I'll watch em eventually if you goons think it's great or clear out a shitload if not.
Even though I hate post a bunch of nit-picky bullshit about the show, I still think that from start to end it is worth watching over a vast majority of other television. My complaints happen primarily because I see the cracks in this amazing show that, if addressed, could have transcended the entire series to the level that made season 1 an incredible hit. Though seasons 2 and 3 are inconsistent in editing, themes, vibes, plot structure, and general show-running, these things still end up vastly superior and more entertaining than other TV shows, bolstered by the consistently amazing acting, dialog, and sound editing. Mac Quayle, who writes the show's music, is a genius and whoever is responsible for the placement/editing of his music into the show deserves the highest praise.

As an art piece, Mr. Robot evokes strong emotion. For that alone it is a must-watch.

DaveKap fucked around with this message at 21:43 on Dec 20, 2017

d0grent
Dec 5, 2004



Craptacular! posted:

Dumb question: I have every episode of this show on my DVR, and I'm not sure I want to read a bunch of spoilery posts to find out if the opinion on this show is good or not. Is it still worth watching at this point? From the beginning to now? Or is it one of those shows like Glee where the thread is hate-watching and I should walk away after the first season?

I know this is a really awkward and subjective ask, but basically I want to know if it's good or not because my DVR is slowly collecting a lot of episodes of this show and I'll watch em eventually if you goons think it's great or clear out a shitload if not.

Show is great. Still my favorite current show 3 seasons in.

Zaphod42
Sep 13, 2012

If there's anything more important than my ego around, I want it caught and shot now.


DaveKap posted:

Even though I hate post a bunch of nit-picky bullshit about the show, I still think that from start to end it is worth watching over a vast majority of other television. My complaints happen primarily because I see the cracks in this amazing show that, if addressed, could have transcended the entire series to the level that made season 1 an incredible hit. Though seasons 2 and 3 are inconsistent in editing, themes, vibes, plot structure, and general show-running, these things still end up vastly superior and more entertaining than other TV shows, bolstered by the consistently amazing acting, dialog, and sound editing. Mac Quayle, who writes the show's music, is a genius and whoever is responsible for the placement/editing of his music into the show deserves the highest praise.

As an art piece, Mr. Robot evokes strong emotion. For that alone it is a must-watch.

Yeah I agree with all of this.

Season 2 and 3 have some flaws compared to 1 but overall the show is still better and works harder than 95% of what's on tv.

Skizzzer
Sep 27, 2011


personally it's s3, s1, then s2 to me.

I don't quite understand the critiques against the editing... nothing egregious stands out to me

Feenix
Mar 14, 2003
Sorry, guy.


Call it conditioning based on stories and TV and movies, but I felt like there was so much leadup/teasing to time travel and alternate dimensions with the little mentions and easter eggs, and then the last 2 episodes just went SO hard in the "NAH, ITS NOT THAT. ANGELA IS WRONG. WHITEROSE IS MENTAL! EVERYTHING IS NORMAL!" that it actually made me kind of suspicious again. You know what I mean?

Not hopeful, or counting on weird sci-fi poo poo. But how adamantly the finale tries to wrap up the speculation feels almost like a misdirection.


Now that you are convinced it's Sci Fi, I'm here to convince you it's not... etc etc...


Who knows. just sayin...

DaveKap
Feb 5, 2006

Pickle: Inspected.





Skizzzer posted:

personally it's s3, s1, then s2 to me.

I don't quite understand the critiques against the editing... nothing egregious stands out to me
I don't want to repeat myself so, in summary, the quality drops, emphasis gets lost, meaning goes undefined, eccentricity goes overused, and overall patterns lose resolution. It is, though, something that you only notice if you're looking for it (and after Season 1 I was looking all over for it, go back and check my posts during that time to see why) and it's just an accumulation of many small things, most of which are on a per-episode basis, with little-to-no examples being large, egregious problems.

Of all of the issues I have with the editing of S2/S3, the only one that I think actually tracks across entire seasons and comes close to being a "large" problem is the over-use and misappropriation of the "wrong half" camera shot. There's some other description for this (after a quick Google, it's called "shortsighting") but it's the Mr. Robot trope of having a person's face framed such that it's right up against one side of the camera while the rest of the shot is an out-of-focus background. (Uh oh, I'm not summarizing anymore. Time for course correction.) In summary, shortsighting was used in very specific, intentional ways during Season 1 but come Season 2 and 3, was mostly used "just to make a shot look cool" and used entirely too much. It reeks of someone just trying to cut and paste the best techniques to ensure the show continues to look good without putting enough thought into why it's good.

Edit: And like most of my posts, I think of another completely random topic I have yet to post about...
This season didn't get a dream sequence. That kinda disappoints me. They're usually the most artistically interesting points in the season. Closest we really got in S3 was the one-take episode.

DaveKap fucked around with this message at 23:34 on Dec 20, 2017

precision
May 7, 2006

hug your posting pals


It's a little early to call but I'd definitely rank S3 > S2 > S1. For me the show's just been getting better and better, not necessarily because the plot itself keeps improving but because the actual craftmanship put into the episodes just keeps improving. The cold open/title card game alone is extremely strong on this show.

DaveKap
Feb 5, 2006

Pickle: Inspected.





precision posted:

It's a little early to call but I'd definitely rank S3 > S2 > S1. For me the show's just been getting better and better, not necessarily because the plot itself keeps improving but because the actual craftmanship put into the episodes just keeps improving. The cold open/title card game alone is extremely strong on this show.
The title card is absolutely one of the consistently fantastic things this show has done.

Gorn Myson
Aug 8, 2007








DaveKap posted:

Of all of the issues I have with the editing of S2/S3, the only one that I think actually tracks across entire seasons and comes close to being a "large" problem is the over-use and misappropriation of the "wrong half" camera shot. There's some other description for this (after a quick Google, it's called "shortsighting") but it's the Mr. Robot trope of having a person's face framed such that it's right up against one side of the camera while the rest of the shot is an out-of-focus background. (Uh oh, I'm not summarizing anymore. Time for course correction.) In summary, shortsighting was used in very specific, intentional ways during Season 1 but come Season 2 and 3, was mostly used "just to make a shot look cool" and used entirely too much. It reeks of someone just trying to cut and paste the best techniques to ensure the show continues to look good without putting enough thought into why it's good.
Jesus, I'm not the only one that noticed this then. Its rare that something just annoys me on a purely visual level but I found that framing of characters incredibly irritating when re-watching season 2 and I started to wonder if Esmail just watched too many Tom Hooper movies. It ended up creating this sense of unease and distance throughout the show particularly in places where he could have hit a more effective tone had he been more deliberate with his choices (although I do understand his constraints).

DaveKap
Feb 5, 2006

Pickle: Inspected.





Gorn Myson posted:

Jesus, I'm not the only one that noticed this then. Its rare that something just annoys me on a purely visual level but I found that framing of characters incredibly irritating when re-watching season 2 and I started to wonder if Esmail just watched too many Tom Hooper movies. It ended up creating this sense of unease and distance throughout the show particularly in places where he could have hit a more effective tone had he been more deliberate with his choices (although I do understand his constraints).
To elaborate (now that someone in this thread actually agrees with me for once...) there are two weird parts about this. The first being that the guy who directed cinematography, Tod Campbell, was on for all episodes of this show except episode 1... and somehow got it right in Season 1 but went wacky for it afterwards. The second being that Sam Esmail's request for negative space and Tod's compliance was essentially what got Tod hired. (See: End of this article - http://www.vulture.com/2015/09/mr-robot-visually-striking-cinematography.html ) I still don't know which of them to blame for this but I have, up until now, been saying it's Esmail's fault for not being the only director on Season 1 but then taking the reigns 100% since then. In other words, he George Lucas'd it.

One of my friends actually cites Esmail's older work as proof that "he can work short form amazingly well but give him a long form TV show to direct and you only get to see his skills occasionally." With this thought, I could imagine he expends most of his efforts on the title cards and those couple "last 20 minute" high intensity scenes.

I swear to god I only analyze entertainment this hard when I really, really like it!

DaveKap fucked around with this message at 01:29 on Dec 21, 2017

counterfeitsaint
Feb 26, 2010

I'm a girl, and you're
gnomes, and it's like
what? Yikes.

Gluten Freeman posted:

Lost answered the major thematic questions is posed, not to everyone's satisfaction certainly, but the things it left unanswered are mostly little finicky things. Lost was a Good Show, with a (mostly) Good Ending. If Mr Robot ended up like Lost that would be fine with me, because I loved Lost!

If, during the third to final episode of Mr. Robot, Darlene stops in the middle of a scene, looks directly at the camera and says "By the way stop asking questions, because the answers will always just lead to more questions. There never were any answers and it's actually been all about the journey since the beginning." I will find you and I will punch you through the internet.

Gorn Myson
Aug 8, 2007








DaveKap posted:

To elaborate (now that someone in this thread actually agrees with me for once...) there are two weird parts about this. The first being that the guy who directed cinematography, Tod Campbell, was on for all episodes of this show except episode 1... and somehow got it right in Season 1 but went wacky for it afterwards. The second being that Sam Esmail's request for negative space and Tod's compliance was essentially what got Tod hired. (See: End of this article - http://www.vulture.com/2015/09/mr-robot-visually-striking-cinematography.html ) I still don't know which of them to blame for this but I have, up until now, been saying it's Esmail's fault for not being the only director on Season 1 but then taking the reigns 100% since then. In other words, he George Lucas'd it.

One of my friends actually cites Esmail's older work as proof that "he can work short form amazingly well but give him a long form TV show to direct and you only get to see his skills occasionally." With this thought, I could imagine he expends most of his efforts on the title cards and those couple "last 20 minute" high intensity scenes.

I swear to god I only analyze entertainment this hard when I really, really like it!
loving same mate. I love this show to bits, but the repetition of "shortsighting" was so obvious when I rewatched season 2 that I started getting frustrated with it, particularly in the scenes with Philip Price who needed something bolder to highlight his power and certainty in himself. Instead it put him on a level playing field with Angela which undermined who Price was and what he was saying.

I'd say the fault is Esmail's but at the same time I empathise with him. I think hes just put himself in a position to overwork himself, and you can tell in certain scenes where hes just out of ideas and just wings it with mixed results. He just needs to be more willing to just let go of the reigns and let someone else in to do some work so he can focus himself.

Its late here but I'm going to read the link you've posted there and I'm going to dig up some of his other directorial work tomorrow so I can see whats going on here. I mean gently caress it, apparently I'm at the very least going to see some above average short movies.

Kawasaki Nun
Jul 16, 2001

by Reene


s1>s3>s2 is the correct order

Metis of the Hallway
Aug 1, 2014




counterfeitsaint posted:

If, during the third to final episode of Mr. Robot, Darlene stops in the middle of a scene, looks directly at the camera and says "By the way stop asking questions, because the answers will always just lead to more questions. There never were any answers and it's actually been all about the journey since the beginning." I will find you and I will punch you through the internet.

I will accept my fate if that comes to pass.

SalTheBard
Jan 26, 2005


I forgot to post my food for USPOL Thanksgiving but that's okay too!




Fallen Rib

I rewatched Season 2 over the last 3 days and outside of Elliots plot I found it to be pretty compelling in a binge watch format.

DaveKap
Feb 5, 2006

Pickle: Inspected.





Kawasaki Nun posted:

s1>s3>s2 is the correct order
As far as my ranking goes, S1 is best of course but I'm not really sure at all whether I like 2 or 3 better. On the one hand, S2's warden plot was a meandering, boring mess compared to S3's quicker paced plot direction and fleshed out answers to prior questions... On the other hand, S2 had the 80s/90s sitcom episode which blows away the single-take episode of S3.

I mean... come the gently caress on, folks.


So... I guess as a complete package, S3 > S2 but for individual amazing moments, S2 > S3.

Shemp the Stooge
Feb 23, 2001


Mike the TV posted:

White Rose controls people by giving them delusions and alternate personalities. She did it to Elliot as a child, his dad found out and was killed for it, and that's why White Rose trusts Elliot. A project is a machine that will cause similar delusions to the rest of the world. There- SciFi without time travel.

White Rose doesn't control people or travel through time, but can send some information back through time. Anyone who uses that information to change things suffers mental and physical effects as a result. Eliot is more tolerant to those effects than most. Eliot's dad being sick was a new thing, probably related to the plant being the end point for received information. Him keeping it from his family was an attempt to keep his family moving down the same path they did previously, as long as they didn't know the impact would be minimal. When Eliot left him at the theatre it was a bigger divergence than he could handle and he died. White-Roses obsession with time is her attempt to keep as much as possible exactly the same as it was previously as to reduce the negative effects of having that information.

DaveKap
Feb 5, 2006

Pickle: Inspected.





See, now we're getting some interesting theories!

With that one, we'll basically get a reverse of what was at the start/end of Memento. Elliot will send a photo of himself back in time to Whiterose with the message "trust everything he says and does."

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Elias_Maluco
Aug 23, 2007
I need to sleep

Kawasaki Nun posted:

s1>s3>s2 is the correct order

Yes. I like the 3 of them, but S1 is pretty much a masterpiece

S2 aint bad, but so slow and in retrospect you realize that Elliot part of it is really kinda filler. Very good filler, but filler. Sitcom episode was amazing, though

S3 starts slow too but than picks up by the middle of it and becomes more like 1

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