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YF-23 posted:Maybe tributary status should be what allows you to send merchants in trade nodes that China controls, then, rather than a protection racket? That would actually make sense I think. Maybe carry some bonuses to it as well to make it wortwhile. But that'd be a very cool way to implement it. Perhaps also a new casus belli which would be to force China to accept your merchants for say 10 years or something, sort of like how European states did with China later in the period. It would also fit for the nomads, many of their raids against the Chinese were for the purpose of forcing them to open up trade, or failing that to capture a trade city and open it up themselves.
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Aug 20, 2017 12:24
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Jeb Bush 2012 posted:iirc historically a "tributary" relationship with china was more about getting access to chinese markets than any real fear of china beating you up. for some neighbours china was actually sending a lot more "gifts" than it received in "tribute" This is correct yes. It's hard to model the tributary relationship in a way that's beneficial to China because by and large the tributary system was more China yelling MIDDLE KINGDOMMMM at the top of its lungs than anything. Representatives of so called tributaries would regularly go home with more net worth in gifts than they brought in tribute, because they had to be shown how effortlessly great China is you see. Maybe a prestige and national unrest bonus of some kind? Idk the historical tributary system was kind of insane.
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Aug 20, 2017 13:14
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Anyway, anyone know if there are mods around at the moment that keep most of the features from Mandate of Heaven but actually manage to something to rein China in and break up the East Asian deadlock?
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Aug 20, 2017 13:58
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Captain Oblivious posted:This is correct yes. It's hard to model the tributary relationship in a way that's beneficial to China because by and large the tributary system was more China yelling MIDDLE KINGDOMMMM at the top of its lungs than anything. Representatives of so called tributaries would regularly go home with more net worth in gifts than they brought in tribute, because they had to be shown how effortlessly great China is you see.
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Aug 20, 2017 14:41
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Randarkman posted:Anyway, anyone know if there are mods around at the moment that keep most of the features from Mandate of Heaven but actually manage to something to rein China in and break up the East Asian deadlock? Why would anyone make a mod like that when they could add 15,000 provinces, buff the Barbary pirates into the stratosphere, and change all the flags to anime girls? 
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Aug 20, 2017 15:42
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Okay vassalizing a colonizer as another colonizer is just broken, especially Castile vassalizing Portugal. Not only they colonize for you and don't get the negatives from the treaty of Tordesillas if you claimed a region, once you annex them their colonial nations don't merge with yours so I have two colonial nations in most areas. Which means my income went through the roof and so did my forcelimits and merchants (25), I have 280k in the bank and making 400 ducats profit each month. With a fleet of 516 heavy ships, 300 lights and 100 transports, and 400k armies. I'm paying like 450 ducats/month for my insanely overkill fleet alone (GB has the 2nd biggest navy at 220 ships total.. for the first time ever I had to build docks since actually using that many ships drains your sailors fiercely), but that's covered entirely by just my trade income 
TorakFade fucked around with this message at 21:26 on Aug 20, 2017 |
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Aug 20, 2017 16:15
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YF-23 posted:Maybe tributary status should be what allows you to send merchants in trade nodes that China controls, then, rather than a protection racket? Oooooh now this is a good idea. Additionally, you could get a penalty to profits if your home node is China controlled and you're not a tributary. EDIT: And the fun part is that if the key is "Is This Node Controlled by the Mandate Holder?" then it works for blobby Ming players as well. I Am Fowl fucked around with this message at 20:33 on Aug 20, 2017 |
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Aug 20, 2017 20:27
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So I consider myself fairly competent at this game but I just started up MEIOU and taxes and 10 years into a Castile game I still have no idea what the heck is going on. Can someone recommend a decent let's play that shows off the basics?
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Aug 21, 2017 11:11
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Arumba did a Granada playthrough. I think it should be possible to pick up the basics from it: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLH-huzMEgGWCuJnbUHRjrHiX_VSndQdfa
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Aug 21, 2017 12:58
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Just formed Germany as Bohemia. It was not particularly difficult, even for someone as bad/mediocre as me. Also I accidentally disbanded the HRE. I wasn't going to but the protestants won the religious war with the help of France and the Ottomans but there were so few of them in the actual HRE that they could only scrape together three electors and as I was conquering Nüremberg I noticed I had sieged down the the emperor and all of the electors and the button was just there begging for me to click it. So I did.
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Aug 21, 2017 19:27
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Weebus posted:So I consider myself fairly competent at this game but I just started up MEIOU and taxes and 10 years into a Castile game I still have no idea what the heck is going on. Can someone recommend a decent let's play that shows off the basics? Castille is bloody difficult because of Three Peters. Granada is much easier oddly.
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Aug 21, 2017 19:49
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I decided to try out Reman's Paradox exploit for infinite custom nation points. I made a custom horde with an immortal 200 200 200 ruler, conquered everything to form Manchu and I triggered the Unguarded Nomad Frontier disaster by 1492 for Ming. It's piss easy but I find it very satisfying to slap around Ming for a while. (It's revenge for my failed White Elephant run)
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Aug 21, 2017 20:53
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Why would you need an exploit for unlimited custom nation points? You can just edit defines.lua, no?
Vivian Darkbloom fucked around with this message at 07:11 on Aug 22, 2017 |
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Aug 22, 2017 07:05
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Vivian Darkbloom posted:Why would you need an exploit for unlimited custom nation points? You can just edit defines.lua, no? An exploit means you can do it in ironman.
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Aug 22, 2017 07:53
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Dev diary is up, has some pictures of the new trade good distribution but more importantly army drilling:quote:Any Army with a leader can Drill, during which their morale will be lowered and each non-mercenary unit will gain a Drill value. This value will directly correspond to better performance in battle. When not drilling, a unit's Drill will degrade over time, and will suffer if the unit is damaged and must reinforce. Looks like next weeks dev diary is also going to be about reasons you'd want actual soldiers instead of mercs, too.
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Aug 22, 2017 11:57
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Tendronai posted:Looks like next weeks dev diary is also going to be about reasons you'd want actual soldiers instead of mercs, too. Sounds promising. Let's see how the AI handles this.
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Aug 22, 2017 13:18
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Looking at those new buttons, I hope that I see an "encamp" army type of button where you can have that particular army have lower maintenance, a button that lets you stock a fort with soldiers (maybe they are going to take away hostile forts that you siege down filling up automatically?), and the drill button. They should really merge the Burn colony, Seize Colony, and Attack natives buttons to reduce clutter. I rarely use any of them so if they were in a dynamic button instead of always showing I think it would be nice.
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Aug 22, 2017 14:12
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I hope that drilling armies doesn't become too tedious, but I guess considering you'll probably only have about 5 or 6 stacks, it should be mostly fine. New map/trade goods are still cool.
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Aug 22, 2017 14:59
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drat it. I'm getting all excited about the new expansion, again. 
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Aug 22, 2017 15:02
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AnoHito posted:I hope that drilling armies doesn't become too tedious, but I guess considering you'll probably only have about 5 or 6 stacks, it should be mostly fine. AnoHito posted:New map/trade goods are still cool. Poil posted:drat it. I'm getting all excited about the new expansion, again. edit: Looking at the map changes some more, I am a little disappointed that they did not make any apparent changes to the Upper Nile region:  Bayuda is still a huge rear end province next to Soba and Shendy that are smaller and it would have been nice to see the whole Nile area redrawn and balanced. AAAAA! Real Muenster fucked around with this message at 15:09 on Aug 22, 2017 |
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Aug 22, 2017 15:03
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Trade goods and map changes are nice but the Army Drill seems pretty meh for a paid feature. Nothing too interesting really.
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Aug 22, 2017 15:03
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:edit: Looking at the map changes some more, I am a little disappointed that they did not make any apparent changes to the Upper Nile region: They totally redid the whole region like 4 patches ago, this expansion is about the middle east.
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Aug 22, 2017 16:05
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Yeah, it feels like that's sort of the line they drew for "Patch/Expansion ends here." Which is fair enough I guess,. You can't really change the whole world map at once.
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Aug 22, 2017 16:11
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Fair enough, I guess I just like the aesthetic of the Nile running through provinces rather than on provincial borders and the difference really stands out to me.
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Aug 22, 2017 17:21
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I agree with that, the lower nile looks a lot nicer now. Come to think of it, maybe it'd be nice if rivers were coded to be above the province borders instead of under them? It's kinda ugly seeing like a tiny bit of river with the thick province borders covering it, and it'd make a lot of rivers clearer.
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Aug 22, 2017 17:25
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Koramei posted:I agree with that, the lower nile looks a lot nicer now. Come to think of it, maybe it'd be nice if rivers were coded to be above the province borders instead of under them? It's kinda ugly seeing like a tiny bit of river with the thick province borders covering it, and it'd make a lot of rivers clearer. That is part of why I said that, but I left that out because I didnt want to be too technical and nerdy. Then you summed it up well 
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Aug 22, 2017 17:27
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I wonder if Prussia will have a bonus to drilling.
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Aug 22, 2017 21:29
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You get a bonus for drilling if you have Be A Man from Disney's Mulan playing
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Aug 22, 2017 22:12
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I'm getting a little annoyed at province borders being apparently haphazard and having nothing to do with things that actual borders are based on. Just look at all those provinces straddling a major river.
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Aug 22, 2017 22:27
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Depending on how the AI handles it, big neighbors having manpower and the cash to drill their armies is gonna make small country starts even harder. Time for Super Ming!
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Aug 22, 2017 22:44
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Fister Roboto posted:I'm getting a little annoyed at province borders being apparently haphazard and having nothing to do with things that actual borders are based on. Just look at all those provinces straddling a major river. real borders are based on a shitload of different things, they don't all treat rivers in the same way. there's always parts of the map that can be improved (and if there's something you had in mind, post on the suggestion forum, it actually does get read) but the devs actually put a lot of thought into where to put their province borders. things to actually be annoyed at though:  looks a lot like we'll be getting another form of mana. I don't mind is for all the bonuses specific to certain government types and so on, but they should really be more sparing about global things like that imo
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Aug 22, 2017 22:56
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Seems like as time goes on, Drilling will be less and less effective at improving your generals. At the beginning up until maybe the midgame, it's not too hard to get all your army on one province (unless you've truly snowballed or are in one of the shittier areas). I wonder how much it scales with proportion of force limit--seems like towards the latter part of the game the effect may be quite diminished. I like the idea of the feature if I am not certain about the implementation. It helps better show the change to professional armies which this game up until now has not only failed at but even encouraged the opposite--since as soon as you have the money it's best to replace as much of your infantry as you can with mercs.
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Aug 23, 2017 00:27
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Encouraging me to actually raise troops is good. Introducing another useless currency that ties into one system and is never used again is awful. Glory, absolutism, SAILORS?
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Aug 23, 2017 00:30
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sailors is the best of those, since you can safely ignore it completely.
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Aug 23, 2017 00:43
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Koramei posted:real borders are based on a shitload of different things, they don't all treat rivers in the same way. there's always parts of the map that can be improved (and if there's something you had in mind, post on the suggestion forum, it actually does get read) but the devs actually put a lot of thought into where to put their province borders. They could also be consolidating several old types into a new type.
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Aug 23, 2017 00:45
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Eej posted:Depending on how the AI handles it, big neighbors having manpower and the cash to drill their armies is gonna make small country starts even harder. Time for Super Ming! On the other hand, I can see at least one exploit-y strategy I'll be trying when this comes out to kill big powers with inferior forces.
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Aug 23, 2017 01:42
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What's a good choice for a tutorial playthrough? I know the recommendation in CK2 is usually Ireland, curious if there's any consensus for EU4. If it makes a difference the only DLC I have is Rights of Man, Art of War, and Common Sense. Thanks!
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Aug 23, 2017 22:44
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Ottomans.
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Aug 23, 2017 22:49
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Eldred posted:What's a good choice for a tutorial playthrough? I know the recommendation in CK2 is usually Ireland, curious if there's any consensus for EU4. Castille, Ottomans, and England.
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Aug 23, 2017 22:51
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Castile is probably the most newbie-friendly country in the game. Make nice with France and Portugal and your Iberian possessions will be safe forever. After that, you're well-positioned to expand basically anywhere you want.
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Aug 23, 2017 22:55
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