Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Locked thread
Celery Face
Feb 18, 2012

oatgan posted:

I feel like this show wants me to sympathize with Healy when he gets dumped on but he's such a horrible person that I just don't care
The jokes about him being an awkward gently caress-up are some of the funniest on the show. I'm halfway through the season and "Alex Vause, you dumb bitchhhh" is what's made me laugh the hardest so far.

Glad Bennett went away early on. The subplot with Daya is boring and stupid and he's one of the weakest actors on the show. Shame about Nicky though. :(

Celery Face fucked around with this message at 08:02 on Jun 16, 2015

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Dr. Killjoy
Oct 9, 2012

:thunk::mason::brainworms::tinfoil::thunkher:
I have to say that Soso is way more pitiable than likeable bitch does not shut the gently caress up but man is everyone needlessly cruel and alienating to her but at least she found her people :3:
Also hot drat did this season make me hate Aleida. And I don't even particularly like Daya!
---
Chang being in for Triad mob boss was way surprising and I hope they do another flashback to that come season 4.
Also I pray to god that Caputo being a company shill doesn't stick.

Dr. Killjoy fucked around with this message at 08:26 on Jun 16, 2015

Gyro Zeppeli
Jul 19, 2012

sure hope no-one throws me off a bridge

Dr. Killjoy posted:

Chang being in for Triad mob boss was way surprising and I hope they do another flashback to that come season 4.
Also I pray to god that Caputo being a company shill doesn't stick.


Chang is my new fav. I was giggling like an idiot at all of her little schemes around the prison. Like watching stuff on a smartphone and eating an orange in the potting shed.

Shima Honnou
Dec 1, 2010

The Once And Future King Of Dicetroit

College Slice
Just started the season and I'm glad to see Piper and Alex remain the most boring, "I want to change the channel better catch up on some threads" poo poo in this whole show. Wish this show could just dump the both of them in some supermax somewhere never to be seen again and then become Inmate Variety Hour.

Like, I'd rather see more Daya and Bennett than Piper or Alex.

Shima Honnou fucked around with this message at 10:33 on Jun 16, 2015

FactsAreUseless
Feb 16, 2011

Shima Honnou posted:

Just started the season and I'm glad to see Piper and Alex remain the most boring, "I want to change the channel better catch up on some threads" poo poo in this whole show. Wish this show could just dump the both of them in some supermax somewhere never to be seen again and then become Inmate Variety Hour.

Like, I'd rather see more Daya and Bennett than Piper or Alex.
Now what if I told you that they paired Piper up with an even less interesting character for half the season?

FactsAreUseless
Feb 16, 2011

Actually, I've never seen the first two seasons but I caught this one because my girlfriend was watching it. How Piper-centric are the first two? I quit watching about three episodes in because of her.

Shima Honnou
Dec 1, 2010

The Once And Future King Of Dicetroit

College Slice

FactsAreUseless posted:

Actually, I've never seen the first two seasons but I caught this one because my girlfriend was watching it. How Piper-centric are the first two? I quit watching about three episodes in because of her.

The start of the first one is extremely Piper-centric but that's a given since she's supposed to be the main character and we, the viewer, are essentially following her to prison. It's been a year but I recall that towards the second half of season 1 it was less about her and same for season 2. Despite Piper being there I do remember those seasons being good or at least good enough, especially when focus started to drift to other characters.


FactsAreUseless posted:

Now what if I told you that they paired Piper up with an even less interesting character for half the season?

Then I will lol, both now out of disbelief, and when I get there because of how bad it will likely be.

moths
Aug 25, 2004

I would also still appreciate some danger.



They also decided to make Alex even less interesting, somehow.

I couldn't understand most of what Ruby said, and wasn't sure why she was on the show. Her whole arc could have been given to an established character and it would have been more meaningful. Maybe they just repurposed an early draft Nicky's S3 story, given how it turned out.

mossyfisk posted:

When it comes down to the crunch, he's not the sort of man that puts himself on the line for other people's sakes. He saves himself.

I'm glad you posted this, because I also missed that. The whole point of his multiple scene flashback is a background character's action ...in the last two seconds.

It felt like a flimsy excuse to film some army scenes. People like war movies, right?

wilderthanmild
Jun 21, 2010

Posting shit



Grimey Drawer

moths posted:

I couldn't understand most of what Ruby said, and wasn't sure why she was on the show. Her whole arc could have been given to an established character and it would have been more meaningful. Maybe they just repurposed an early draft Nicky's S3 story, given how it turned out.

I am fairly certain this is what they did. Given that Wikipedia lists Natasha Lyonne as being involved filming a whole bunch of stuff recently, I assume there was a conflict and they had to suddenly repurpose some script for a new character.

At least that's what I hope anyway. I don't want one of the best characters to be gone permanently.

wilderthanmild fucked around with this message at 13:29 on Jun 16, 2015

Max
Nov 30, 2002

apokaladle posted:

(Season finale spoilers) I felt so bad for Sophia the whole time everyone else got to have fun in the water.

I kept thinking this as well.

wilderthanmild
Jun 21, 2010

Posting shit



Grimey Drawer

apokaladle posted:

(Season finale spoilers) I felt so bad for Sophia the whole time everyone else got to have fun in the water.

:ohdear: I didn't even think of that. It just makes it so much more awful.

Wamsutta
Sep 9, 2001

The only thing I took away from the finale is how bummed out I am for Ramos and the fact that they didn't show Tucky or Boo do anything (or even talk about doing anything) to help her. They just said, "oh no."

Jamesman
Nov 19, 2004

"First off, let me start by saying curly light blond hair does not suit Hyomin at all. Furthermore,"
Fun Shoe
What does it say about the show when Boo and Pennsatucky become the best part of the show? Like, I wanted to watch them hang out and do stuff way more than I wanted to watch Piper and Alex, Piper and Stella, Bennett and Daya, etc.

Boo is just loving great, and they filled out Tucky's character so much and had her grow and made her become so interesting, and watching them interact was just the best loving thing. I just could have done without the 50 Shades of Duck Hunt poo poo that came out of nowhere with Donut Guy. Like seriously what the gently caress was that even?


Did anyone else feel like Leanne's backstory kind of conflicted with her character from the first two seasons? She followed Tucky's fanatical Christian religion, which isn't interchangeable with the Amish faith she was shown to practice. She's a drug addict with meth teeth, but it seemed like she just experimented during her Rumspringa, so I guess her time in prison made her addicted to meth and heroin and poo poo? I just really clashed for me. I like the backstory, just not in combination with her she was already presented to us.

Gyro Zeppeli
Jul 19, 2012

sure hope no-one throws me off a bridge

Jamesman posted:

What does it say about the show when Boo and Pennsatucky become the best part of the show? Like, I wanted to watch them hang out and do stuff way more than I wanted to watch Piper and Alex, Piper and Stella, Bennett and Daya, etc.

Personally, I wish we just got The Many Adventures of Chang.

Just detailing how her life is totally fine in prison cuz she's just the loving craftiest. I broke up laughing at the last episode, when they found her bag of oranges through the fence.

Crow Jane
Oct 18, 2012

nothin' wrong with a lady drinkin' alone in her room

Jamesman posted:

Did anyone else feel like Leanne's backstory kind of conflicted with her character from the first two seasons? She followed Tucky's fanatical Christian religion, which isn't interchangeable with the Amish faith she was shown to practice. She's a drug addict with meth teeth, but it seemed like she just experimented during her Rumspringa, so I guess her time in prison made her addicted to meth and heroin and poo poo? I just really clashed for me. I like the backstory, just not in combination with her she was already presented to us.

The flashback didn't show her arrest, just her leaving the Amish community for good. I figured she'd spent a certain amount of time mething it up after that point, eventually getting arrested for it and then being reborn or whatever in prison.

moths
Aug 25, 2004

I would also still appreciate some danger.



Donut guy ending up like it did was a waste in some ways, it was the only time I felt like characters on the show actually had romantic on-screen chemistry. (Until it went bad, obviously.)

But we wouldn't have gotten a bunch of fall-flat sodomy jokes, so yay?

Jamesman
Nov 19, 2004

"First off, let me start by saying curly light blond hair does not suit Hyomin at all. Furthermore,"
Fun Shoe

Crow Jane posted:

The flashback didn't show her arrest, just her leaving the Amish community for good. I figured she'd spent a certain amount of time mething it up after that point, eventually getting arrested for it and then being reborn or whatever in prison.

That's possible. I interpreted the flashbacks as her rescinding on the police deal and turning herself in.

nooneofconsequence
Oct 30, 2012

she had tiny Italian boobs.
Well that's my story.

Jamesman posted:

That's possible. I interpreted the flashbacks as her rescinding on the police deal and turning herself in.

That doesn't really make sense.

Plus look at her teeth. That takes some time. Never seemed to be much meth going around the prison.

Oxyclean
Sep 23, 2007


Really enjoyed what they did with Doggett. Went from one of my least liked characters to one of my favorites, but the probably has a lot to do with her ceasing to be an antagonist of sorts, and being replaced by Leanne for the "stop being such an rear end in a top hat" character.

Chang was fantastic too. Kinda liked Soso too.

Jamesman
Nov 19, 2004

"First off, let me start by saying curly light blond hair does not suit Hyomin at all. Furthermore,"
Fun Shoe

nooneofconsequence posted:

That doesn't really make sense.

Plus look at her teeth. That takes some time. Never seemed to be much meth going around the prison.

Yes exactly. That's why my read of the flashbacks clashed with what we'd seen of her in previous seasons, and I just figured it was bad writing. But even if she just ran away and gave up on religion and got into drugs and was arrested and then got into a new religion in prison, that still kinda clashes with what we'd seen of her in previous seasons and it still feels like bad writing.

Elijah Snow
Dec 10, 2006

some-something man
She says "I sent their children to prison".

Hakkesshu
Nov 4, 2009


I still think it's disingenuous trying to make literally every character seem sympathetic by having these weird, intricate backgrounds. Like sometimes a person is just a lovely meth head who goes to prison and there's nothing wrong with that, why the gently caress do they need to have like an Amish crisis of faith, it's dumb and it doesn't improve the characterization in my mind.

ninjahedgehog
Feb 17, 2011

It's time to kick the tires and light the fires, Big Bird.


Hakkesshu posted:

I still think it's disingenuous trying to make literally every character seem sympathetic by having these weird, intricate backgrounds. Like sometimes a person is just a lovely meth head who goes to prison and there's nothing wrong with that, why the gently caress do they need to have like an Amish crisis of faith, it's dumb and it doesn't improve the characterization in my mind.

Agreed. I can think of a couple of exceptions though, like Black Cindy and Morello, where what I got from the flashback was "wow this person really does deserve to be in prison."

Sophia too, come to think of it. Didn't she go away for stealing people's identities or credit cards or something after putting out their house fires?

Shima Honnou
Dec 1, 2010

The Once And Future King Of Dicetroit

College Slice

ninjahedgehog posted:

Sophia too, come to think of it. Didn't she go away for stealing people's identities or credit cards or something after putting out their house fires?

Yes, she basically stole peoples' credit cards to pay for gender reassignment.

Asiina
Apr 26, 2011

No going back
Grimey Drawer

ninjahedgehog posted:

Agreed. I can think of a couple of exceptions though, like Black Cindy and Morello, where what I got from the flashback was "wow this person really does deserve to be in prison."

This is hosed up. People don't deserve to be in prison because they're assholes, they deserve to be in prison for committing a crime.

I think it's pretty cold to say that just because the flashbacks try to humanize these characters it means it's making up excuses for them. Everyone did something bad, most bad enough to really deserve what they are in there for: Red and Chang for organized crime, Pennsatucky murdered someone, Sophia committed identity theft, Morello is a crazy stalker, a bunch of people for drug related crimes, etc.

People who do lovely things can still have interesting and often sympathetic parts of their history.

Aqueous Martinis
Nov 19, 2006

what a little moonlight can do
Re: Bennett (s3e13) Did anyone else think it was implied that Bennett was behind Cesar's raid? That's what I took from it, especially with the focus on the DEA agent taking the baby, but I'm not seeing many other people who had this same thought. It would make sense for him to stay away from Daya and her mom while helping the agents. As annoying as their story is, I don't see the writers just getting rid of him.

Hakkesshu
Nov 4, 2009


Asiina posted:

This is hosed up. People don't deserve to be in prison because they're assholes, they deserve to be in prison for committing a crime.

I think it's pretty cold to say that just because the flashbacks try to humanize these characters it means it's making up excuses for them. Everyone did something bad, most bad enough to really deserve what they are in there for: Red and Chang for organized crime, Pennsatucky murdered someone, Sophia committed identity theft, Morello is a crazy stalker, a bunch of people for drug related crimes, etc.

People who do lovely things can still have interesting and often sympathetic parts of their history.

I agree with you, but I don't think the show earns it. This is a complaint about the writing more than the concept of humanizing criminals, because most of these people's outside lives seem like fairy tales. This season had a few good ones, like Big Boo, but when it comes to someone like Leanne, it gives that character so much unnecessary context and baggage that they will never properly explore because there simply isn't much to that character to begin with, as they've portrayed her. It's like spending way too much time on your D&D character's background in order to make them seem like the most special person in the universe. It's so hamfisted.

Also like I said, I don't think there's anything wrong with making a character unsympathetic, that still doesn't mean they necessarily deserve to be in prison. It's not about feeling that the show makes excuses for them, it's about the show having extremely simplistic characters like Leanne, who has been nothing but a one-note scumbag for the show's entire run, who they then try to give this really out there background in the name of what exactly? Maybe do more with that character where it counts instead.

Hakkesshu fucked around with this message at 15:29 on Jun 17, 2015

Shima Honnou
Dec 1, 2010

The Once And Future King Of Dicetroit

College Slice

Aqueous Martinis posted:

Re: Bennett (s3e13) Did anyone else think it was implied that Bennett was behind Cesar's raid? That's what I took from it, especially with the focus on the DEA agent taking the baby, but I'm not seeing many other people who had this same thought. It would make sense for him to stay away from Daya and her mom while helping the agents. As annoying as their story is, I don't see the writers just getting rid of him.

That could make sense. I doubt they'd just completely write him out of the show, if anything I wouldn't be shocked if they came up with some bullshit like he ditched his job and life to go work some high-risk thing for a while to make some real money real quick, since I was getting the vibe that he didn't feel he had enough to actually provide for Daya and the kid, plus he pulled his disappearing act around the time the rumors of the prison closing were spreading so he'd have a reason to want another way of making money.

Shima Honnou fucked around with this message at 15:58 on Jun 17, 2015

Sigma-X
Jun 17, 2005

Aqueous Martinis posted:

Re: Bennett (s3e13) Did anyone else think it was implied that Bennett was behind Cesar's raid? That's what I took from it, especially with the focus on the DEA agent taking the baby, but I'm not seeing many other people who had this same thought. It would make sense for him to stay away from Daya and her mom while helping the agents. As annoying as their story is, I don't see the writers just getting rid of him.

S3e13
Nah I don't think he's coming back and I really hope he isn't.
The entire romance is based on their naïveté. Bennett thinks he's the hero of the story but Bennett isn't, he's a coward who abused his authority repeatedly in their relationship and acts like a shithead whenever he feels out of control, but also is too much of a pussy and a coward to stand up to anyone. He's not a hero though and we continuously see he'll run and hide from problems.

Daya meanwhile keeps wanting to believe in this fairy tale where she can be the good princess. She routinely convinces herself that Bennett is Prince Charming. She wants to believe she can make everything ok. She has an out for her baby to be safe but it breaks her fairy tale and now the kid is doomed to a hosed up life growing up in foster care and she may never see the baby again.

I think the writers have done a pretty good job this far of portraying these characters as believing they're in love and going to make it but the rest of the OitNB world does not allow for that fairy tale to exist and continuously is throwing them curveballs.

To have Bennett somehow 'man up' and magic himself into busting Cesar seems unlikely to me.

Red has a much better appreciation for the CO / Prisoner relationship - she let's Healy know that it can't work out despite their feelings for each other.

woke kaczynski
Jan 23, 2015

How do you do, fellow antifa?



Fun Shoe
I'm honestly surprised we haven't had a character who's actually innocent yet.

moths
Aug 25, 2004

I would also still appreciate some danger.



I've said before, but I'll be surprised if Suzanne had actually done anything.

Tumblr of scotch
Mar 13, 2006

Please, don't be my neighbor.

moths posted:

I've said before, but I'll be surprised if Suzanne had actually done anything.
After nearly taking the fall for Vee, I have to agree. She's so impressionable that all it takes is one moderately charismatic person who makes her think she care about her and she'd take the fall for the Trail of Tears.

Antifreeze Head
Jun 6, 2005

It begins
Pillbug
Suzanne may well have done something, but I think there would be a strong case to be made for a proper verdict of not criminally responsible rather than guilty.

I thought the Piper storyline with the panty business made sense. She was an aspiring business person when she went to jail, she's found a way to pick up where that left off. Piper doing stuff means Piper's brother gets involved, which is a plus. And her St. Crispin's Day speech was really good.

I think the Leanne character is actually rather interesting. She comes from such a regimented religious lifestyle and is desperately trying to get back to it. Did her and Poussey know that each other spoke German? I really liked that scene where it was just no bid deal when Poussey said something and she responded in turn.

Elsewise: Chang is good and RIP Hot Donna.

pigdog
Apr 23, 2004

by Smythe
Finished the season. Overall... pretty good. It's like they had a really good meal offering going on in the past two seasons, and now started to experiment with cheaper ingredients. Still tastes good, but not quite the same. Thought they ran out of ideas with Piper and Alex, and the drama aspect overall was unfocused and all over the place. Comedy is alright too, I'll take that and funny writing, just missing the actual feels a little bit.

Antifreeze Head posted:

I think the Leanne character is actually rather interesting. She comes from such a regimented religious lifestyle and is desperately trying to get back to it. Did her and Poussey know that each other spoke German? I really liked that scene where it was just no bid deal when Poussey said something and she responded in turn.
Huh, I thought they were talking Dutch at Leanne's place, but now I'm not sure. Could've it been just terrible accents? The show is pretty bad with getting those details right.

I mean Kate Mulgrew looks legit Russian, but her accent's cringeworthy everytime she speaks some. No way would her character be called Galina Reznikov, that's a male surname, and if that's what her father or husband had, then hers would be Reznikova. "Pirogi" is in plural, nobody would say "a pirogi". Etc. For what it's worth, The Americans gets the accents and that kind of stuff right.

pigdog fucked around with this message at 21:31 on Jun 17, 2015

Hakkesshu
Nov 4, 2009


Pennsylvania German is kind of a bastardization of regular German and in terms of accent sounds closer to Dutch, I'm not sure how understandable it is to a native speaker.

Vodos
Jul 17, 2009

And how do we do that? We hurt a lot of people...

Hakkesshu posted:

Pennsylvania German is kind of a bastardization of regular German and in terms of accent sounds closer to Dutch, I'm not sure how understandable it is to a native speaker.

Never heard the real thing, I understood the "Amish" on Banshee most of the time. What they spoke in this was incomprehensible to me even though I understand some Dutch too.

e X
Feb 23, 2013

cool but crude

Hakkesshu posted:

Pennsylvania German is kind of a bastardization of regular German and in terms of accent sounds closer to Dutch, I'm not sure how understandable it is to a native speaker.

I understood it well enough. Not every single word, but I got the gist of every conversation.

Nichael
Mar 30, 2011


Why did the show cast Blair Brown at all for this season? All her scenes just kind of lead up to actual story in the 4th season.

Shima Honnou
Dec 1, 2010

The Once And Future King Of Dicetroit

College Slice

apokaladle posted:

I'm honestly surprised we haven't had a character who's actually innocent yet.

Marisol comes close since her crime was basically selling printer paper to idiots.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Lycus
Aug 5, 2008

Half the posters in this forum have been made up. This website is a goddamn ghost town.
Should've cut out the lovely cult storyline and given Morello more screentime or comeuppance for the maintenance guy.

  • Locked thread