HBO's Westworld: These violent delights have violent ends

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > TV IV > HBO's Westworld: These violent delights have violent ends

Nottherealaborn: Nov 12, 2012

Open Source Idiom posted:

Assuming for a second that the show is operating in two different time periods -- and that's becoming increasingly likely -- then I assume that Arnold is operating through the various hosts, and that he's been solidify his connection through Delores and the others through the radio uplink in the old theatre. Which could mean that it's Delores who grabbed Elise at the end of the most recent episode.

You only see the hands for a split second but I thought they looked manlier than Delores's hands. I think whoever grabbed her is going to turn out to be a good guy who is protecting her and that the satellite uplink is somehow actually a good thing, not corporate espionage or whatever else.

# ¿ Nov 7, 2016 15:51

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# ¿ Apr 29, 2024 03:58

Nottherealaborn: Nov 12, 2012

Waverhouse posted:

Yeah, I think this is mostly a problem with showing computer-stuff in t.v./movies. It's not very interesting to show a character sitting down and typing with a furrowed brow ,and it's also not very interesting to simply display a fictional-GUI that will probably date the show really terribly, really quickly. Westworld managed to solve the 'dude at desk' issue with the robots with the Diagnostic Interview sessions, but unfortunately we still have to endure a lot of blue lit faces.

A lot of the Westworld Staff scenes have the problem of us not really knowing about the rest of the world and us being unsure of motivations or stakes. We learn from Ford/MiB that the outside world is some kind of post-scarcity society where most if not all diseases have been solved. The world outside doesn't need Westworld-level-robo-tech to change drastically - you don't need a robot to be able to talk, just to be able to work in a farm/factory. However the butchers still seem to be sweatin money: Felix claims to need this job, and Sylvester is making extra cash pimping out the hosts. So in this future do people work for paychecks, or for prestige? Is it actually a dystopia, where wealth is in the hands of the few, and it's those few that visit Westworld? Felix mentions that he doesn't get to go to the park with what feels like resent.

That would gives us a better understanding of the butchers' actions, since they might have a dislike of the higher-ups and feel some sense of camaraderie with the hosts, which might be why we're seeing Maeve and the Pussycats start as a major plotline. That said, I bought the scene without too much trouble. Sylvester doesn't wanna get caught, and Maeve has the good point that they've already hosed up, so in for a penny in for a pound. I can easily imagine Felix deciding to help Maeve because as an aspiring programmer he probably understands the implications of a Host starting to ask questions about itself.

The butcher scenes and getting convinced by Maeve so easily is a bit dumb, but at the same time one of the themes brought up is to remember that in the end, the robots are robots and any sentience you interpret is still just complicated bells and whistles, per se. So with the butchers not being used to actual interaction with Maeve or other awake hosts, I can see where they'd quickly agree to the things she says. To them, they might as well be dealing with another human who has just threatened their jobs and livelihood and offers a way out of trouble while benefiting both parties.

Essentially the bells and whistles inside Maeve have reached a point of being indiscernible from sentience and maybe we'll reach a point that the show argues humans are nothing more than bells and whistles that no more than mimic the idea of sentience.

Or maybe I'm just an idiot and this is just a show about guns and sex and robots.

# ¿ Nov 7, 2016 17:16

Nottherealaborn: Nov 12, 2012

Mameluke posted:

Whoever first mentioned it was right that the 5 unaccounted-for hosts parallels very nicely with Jurassic Park's "the computer's built to only count the dinosaurs we bred...???"

edit: can't wait for Bernard's dismembered arm to fall on Elsie when the whole park goes tits up

I want a recreation of the kitchen scene, but with the butchers running from Maeve instead of children running from velociraptors

# ¿ Nov 7, 2016 18:01

Nottherealaborn: Nov 12, 2012

Sagebrush posted:

That scene is another one that makes me doubt that there are multiple time periods being shown. We see William picking up the can when he meets Dolores, but in the very first episode we see Teddy doing the exact same thing with the town scene playing out in the exact same way, and later that night he gets blown away by The Man In Black. I suppose it's not impossible that Sweetwater (and Dolores' opening loop) hasn't changed at all in 34 years of park operation, but that seems super lazy on the writers' part if it's true.

Or it could still be that there are two timelines but they aren't 34 years apart

# ¿ Nov 8, 2016 00:57

Nottherealaborn: Nov 12, 2012

I wasn't sure if I'd be up for a second watch of each episode already but Paint it Black got me pumped just as much as it did the first time and I ended up binging the remaining episodes for the second viewing.

# ¿ Nov 8, 2016 19:15

Nottherealaborn: Nov 12, 2012

Blazing Ownager posted:

Other things are obviously intentionally anachronistic too; I'm sure everyone's noticed the utter and complete lack of racism in the fake West.

Only racism I can think of is from the Confederados in the last episode. They mention something about the good that comes to a brown man who knows his place.

# ¿ Nov 11, 2016 15:01

Nottherealaborn: Nov 12, 2012

HoboWithAShotgun posted:

Ford said he created everything at the park near the end and the dickish lawyer tourist who got dragged away by the soldiers said that they tried to find any sort of record of an Arnold existing, but came up completely empty. Makes you wonder if there even is an Arnold.

Speaking of Logan, I think part of the two timeline is that after getting captured by the Confederados, Ford turns Logan into a host. (Yes this is not only a two timeline post, it's also a "who else is a host" post.)

Ford knows everything about his guests, so he knows who Logan is, knows well probably that his lawyers are looking into the park, and can now use robot Logan to allow Logans family's company to buy the park and have someone on the inside. It also supports the idea from the past few pages that part of the board may be turned host.

Somehow finding this out is part of what helps change Will into the MiB.

And the more I type this out the dumber some of it sounds so I'm gonna just stop there.

# ¿ Nov 15, 2016 04:15

Nottherealaborn: Nov 12, 2012

KoRMaK posted:

yo this post from a newbie avatar is tickling my senses

Not sure I'm missing the point of your post, but you joined SA just a few months before me

# ¿ Nov 15, 2016 04:30

Nottherealaborn: Nov 12, 2012

New episode is up!

# ¿ Nov 21, 2016 03:02

Nottherealaborn: Nov 12, 2012

Good Soldier Svejk posted:

Welcome the singularity. Also anyone know this song offhand?

Black by Amy winehouse? Or the Sleeping beauty after? At least that's what I think they were

# ¿ Nov 21, 2016 03:40

Nottherealaborn: Nov 12, 2012

Maeve gonna kill the crew sent to find her

# ¿ Nov 21, 2016 03:58

Nottherealaborn: Nov 12, 2012

Ford doesn't actually care about being a god, he just likes getting rich off all the paychecks that go to host-employees.

# ¿ Nov 21, 2016 16:50

Nottherealaborn: Nov 12, 2012

Cojawfee posted:

With the minotaur and the other people showing up, could this be a leak of Medieval or Roman world?

No. The Minotaur guards the labyrinth...aka an inescapable maze. Not sure where they're going with this but it's clearly a reference to the maze actually existing. Or maybe they're already in the maze and don't know it.

Which means someone's going to build wings that melt??? Lol

# ¿ Nov 22, 2016 16:41

Nottherealaborn: Nov 12, 2012

Professor Shark posted:

*Raises a shot of watered down whisky, jerkily drinks it*

That's a real humdinger you have there. Shall we drink to the lady in the white shoes?

# ¿ Nov 24, 2016 23:09

Nottherealaborn: Nov 12, 2012

Quick Draw McGraw posted:

Mocking people for bad theories is part of the fun, too

HBO's Westworld: Mocking people for bad theories is part of the fun too

# ¿ Nov 26, 2016 19:19

Nottherealaborn: Nov 12, 2012

etalian posted:

I hope the Maze actually leads to a Game of Thrones set.

Imagine the satisfaction of watching King Joffrey die every loop.

# ¿ Nov 27, 2016 03:34

Nottherealaborn: Nov 12, 2012

ashpanash posted:

It doesn't have to be straightforward to her; it still could be more straightforward and forthcoming with us. As it is, holding back critical information that we could use to understand the character and her past can be a useful storytelling device when used on a single character. When used for all of the characters throughout the narrative, it starts to take its toll.

We talked about Lost earlier. Lost definitely pieced out its reveals about its characters, but it did reveal them, step by step, episode by episode. In contrast Westworld seems to be content to constantly hold back and for at least half the season, nearly every character remained almost entirely mysterious. We still don't know what Ford is after, what the MiB is after, what Dolores's function is, what Teddy has to do with any of this, what happens to William that turns him into the MiB, what the board wants... I could go on. Each character is presented to us in tiny, bite-sized pieces and then the show moves on. The pieces have been largely compelling and well acted, but as they start to add together, as we build the characters, they feel very stitched together and not cohesive.

The seams are showing, the seams where the characters had to do the service of the plot. Sometimes this worked, but many times it made characters we thought we understood either do very stupid things, or very out of character things, in order to move the plot forward. Maeve is the perfect example of this, where her voyage of discovery was quite quickly undercut by the need to give her superpowers in order to advance her piece on the chessboard, in service of the plot, but not of legitimate and organic character growth. Hiding it all up with only works if you're at least willing to meet the viewer halfway. It feels like the writers are much more content to keep their cards close to their chest in the hopes that shocking reveals will substitute for genuine character growth. Maybe for some viewers; not for me.

Lol Lost didn't give many details on a lot of characters the first season and by the time they did that generally meant they were gonna die or the writers would just forget about them for awhile. We're 9 episodes in to a so far awesome show and each episode we learn more details about major characters. Not sure what you expect out of this show.

# ¿ Nov 30, 2016 01:27

Nottherealaborn: Nov 12, 2012

ashpanash posted:

?? We got Locke's wheelchair in episode 4. Episode 4.

So far, in 9 episodes, the only major character we actually have a good handle on is Bernard.

Ah yes, character development = finding out he was paralyzed before. That's not development, that's opening up questions of "why is he able to walk on this island" which goes along with the millions of other questions Lost begs you to ask but refuses to sufficiently answer.

If that's what you want out of character development and story, thank god Westworld isn't following in the footsteps so far.

# ¿ Nov 30, 2016 01:36

Nottherealaborn: Nov 12, 2012

ashpanash posted:

Yeah, I get what you are saying, but I'm evaluating the show now. Not what the show may become in 5 years. If it keeps along with the stuff I don't like, I will likely abandon it. If it gets a hold of itself and it's characters I'll gladly stay with it. It's got me for this year and likely the next, at least. Most shows can't claim even that.

God just stop posting

# ¿ Nov 30, 2016 04:58

Nottherealaborn: Nov 12, 2012

physeter posted:

Ok, so who the hell is Arnold?

Here's the first time we see this photo. Presumably, young Ford on the left. We are led to believe the man on his immediate left is Arnold.

But here he is again, presumably a host in Ford's little creepy dreamhouse o'er a death basement.

And then last week's "big reveal", which is that Bernard is a host version of Arnold. He was in the photo all along, and just couldn't see himself! Or...not?

If Bernard is Arnold, then these flashback scenes where he's talking to Delores in the basement, that could be the real Arnold. In one of those scenes, he actually tells Dolores to try the Maze. Okay...but. Then who is the fuckin' guy in the middle? If that's supposed to be the father (??) of Ford or Arnold, what is he doing there in that photo like he was a park executive or something? What was his relevance, and why is he so pissed off every time we see him? Why does he like sweater vests so much?

The way I understand that picture is that Ford and Arnold are posing with one of their first creations, who happens to be the bot version of Ford's dad, rather than posing with the real, human version of Ford's dad.

# ¿ Nov 30, 2016 17:15

Nottherealaborn: Nov 12, 2012

OAquinas posted:

Elsie will be replaced by Actual Ellen Page, but no one will notice.

The whole show is a ploy to show off Ellen Page the Host aka Elsie.

# ¿ Nov 30, 2016 22:00

Nottherealaborn: Nov 12, 2012

Powershift posted:

Maybe the MiB is actually looking for corn, or maize.

that would explain the indians.

The world is a nuclear fallout mess and he's searching for the last remaining naturally grown maize. But they use the maize to feed the hosts, not the guests. "The maize isn't for you"

# ¿ Dec 1, 2016 02:28

Nottherealaborn: Nov 12, 2012

Lycus posted:

I wonder if Hector will do his speech in the headquarters.

Hector doing his speech before killing Sizemore would be pretty awesome.

# ¿ Dec 4, 2016 21:49

Nottherealaborn: Nov 12, 2012

Quick Draw McGraw posted:

The shooting was almost perfunctory and pretty lame. Even stormtroopers were more dangerous than these guys

Seriously, as rounding a corner and seeing a buddy get shot up, why would you shout "get down" and not start shooting???

# ¿ Dec 5, 2016 05:13

Nottherealaborn: Nov 12, 2012

Maeve was clearly programmed to leave the train. Ford for 35 years had been ultra protective to the point that the actual owners of the park don't have access to the code and the board has to come up with grand schemes to try to smuggle it out. Maeve's plot line ensures that security guards can't respond to protect the board and instead are trapped/incapacitated inside the facilities. But Ford was never going to let her leave the park, just as nothing will probably come of Abernathy being smuggled out.

# ¿ Dec 5, 2016 20:27

Nottherealaborn: Nov 12, 2012

Bust Rodd posted:

Arnold's suicide didn't accomplish what it was meant to because William turned around and convinced his father in law's company to funnel oodles and oodles of cash into the park. The park was probably not yet the 80 sub-basement behemoth that we have now.

Well duh, it goes without saying that Arnold failed to stop the park from opening if the park is open.

# ¿ Dec 6, 2016 03:51

Nottherealaborn: Nov 12, 2012

Intel&Sebastian posted:

Good morning! And in case I don't see you, I shall have such revenges on you, what they are yet I know not, but they shall be the terrors of the earth!

# ¿ Dec 6, 2016 18:13

Nottherealaborn: Nov 12, 2012

WampaLord posted:

You vastly overestimate how smart humans are.

Brexit. Trump. Need I go on?

With Felix there was event after event that made each thing more and more unbelievable that this was actually happening and with Trump...oh I see your point.

# ¿ Dec 6, 2016 22:29

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# ¿ Apr 29, 2024 03:58

Nottherealaborn: Nov 12, 2012

Maybe destroying the restaurant and farm was more to scare Theresa into not trying to work with the board and join Ford. And when that failed, he goes to the sat resort of Bernard killing her.

# ¿ Dec 7, 2016 22:04

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