|
Onmi posted:I know I've seen them survive, because they go to the next plot-relevant castle to take to take it over. And if they do that you can't complete the chapter.  God drat that's even more hilarious than the ambush. Shame you can't really do anything about it, though. It'd be a neat thing to aim for on a second run, at least.
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2016 16:56
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 19, 2024 15:41 |
|
|
vilkacis posted:
Well their AI is aimed towards taking it. So if they survive and you don't take it, then they will. And you can't take a castle from allies. So you just can't hit the next story trigger.
|
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2016 17:38
|
|
|
Onmi posted:Well their AI is aimed towards taking it. So if they survive and you don't take it, then they will. And you can't take a castle from allies. So you just can't hit the next story trigger. So could one say that the rest of the plot as we know it...basically never happens? Sigurd and Cuan just live happily ever after  ?
|
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2016 17:52
|
|
|
They really went all-out with... well, effectively an in-engine cutscene of all those knights just getting run down. You watch and can't do anything.
|
|
#
?
Dec 23, 2016 19:19
|
|
|
Glazius posted:They really went all-out with... well, effectively an in-engine cutscene of all those knights just getting run down. You watch and can't do anything. Just the fact that saving them is possible only via a GLITCH; one that involves skipping the Tyrfing... And the designers didn't even give them stats THAT high! Trabant has perfectly reasonable endgame stats! And Magorn fits well as a Chapter 5 boss! It really does seem like the designers play tested this part over and over, till they were SURE they got it right. Most impressive.
|
|
#
?
Dec 24, 2016 00:35
|
|
|
This just appeared in my Tumblr feed. It's from Cipher, and well, it looks awesome so I might as well post it here.
|
|
#
?
Dec 24, 2016 03:58
|
|
|
Fionordequester posted:Just the fact that saving them is possible only via a GLITCH; one that involves skipping the Tyrfing... And the designers didn't even give them stats THAT high! Trabant has perfectly reasonable endgame stats! And Magorn fits well as a Chapter 5 boss! It really does seem like the designers play tested this part over and over, till they were SURE they got it right. Most impressive. Well yeah, speaking from my own experiences in design, you always want it to occur in the games own engine. I mean look at the previous chapter with the Pegasus Knights you could do nothing about. They had to wall you off because they recognised that if they allowed the player to have free reign, they could win with no difficulty. It's the same thing with Eltshan's Knights on Chapter 1. FE4 likes to do its cut-scene battles in engine. But also doesn't want you to mess with them. So they're either set up so you can't, or statted and balanced in a way that it wont matter. You can, regardless of the Tyrfing bug, get Fury down there with the Wing Clipper. It just wont matter because they're tear through the Knights and kill Ethlin .
|
|
#
?
Dec 25, 2016 06:28
|
|
|
CHAPTER 5: THE END OF GEN 1 (PART 2/2)   Aida: Alvis just put the finishing touches on his plan of attack. You’ve nothing to worry about. Reptor: Hm… Well, I suppose I’ll have to trust him this time. Aida: Reptor, I have orders to assume Velthomer Castle’s defense. So you’ll excuse me."Hrrmm, I'm suspicious of someone. Now watch as I LOUDLY ANNOUNCE MY SUSPICIONS TO THE RIGHT HAND WOMAN OF THE MAN I'M SUSPICIOUS OF!!" At least, I'm assuming she's fairly high up. She's being very curt with Reptor, and Alvis DID have sex with her about 10 years before all this. Fire Emblem 5 (Thracia 766) takes place about 17 years after this battle, and it introduces their 27 year old son, so...safe to say that Aida's got some clout.  If only that influence could be used for good  ... Reptor: Don’t budge an inch until the enemy is well within range.Here that? These guys are just going to stand in one place till we get to this spot here...   This here is RIGHT outside the attack range of the western Meteo Mage, and is directly horizontal to the eastern Mage. Use that as a reference for remembering where I'll be putting Sigurd.  Anyways, Fury's finally returned, but Ardan's got a job to do soon. So...    There is not a single Gen 2 character that inherits axes. Not a one. Lex's children will, therefore, benefit more from him liquidating everything he's got for more Gold. And THAT means Ardan gets the Hero Axe!   Levin then buys all the tomes he can for his son Arthur. But...shoot. That Elfire should be a Fire tome. Arthur can't use B Fire Magic with these parents, so Elfire will only go to waste. I would normally correct this screenshot, but...I'm away with my extended family. I don't HAVE my computer now! Expect this to be edited soon... But yeah, Tiltyu's daughter gets to use the Warp Staff upon promotion, and her son doesn't. Hence, he needs to inherit some items to sell!   Next enemy phase...  ...a whole lot of nothing happens!    Alright. this will be our last pit stop; if Sigurd doesn't have all he needs next turn, he never will.  So after cleaning out the Arena...    Sigurd assembles his final set of items. None of the children will inherit their parent's 7th item, for they will start with their own default weapon/staff. And as for the items in storage, children WILL receive those items in addition to what their parents had in their main inventory; they'll just have to get it out of their own Storage, that's all.  Now then, Sigurd WILL need some assistance for once, and Fury's children are among the least difficult to level up; so I had Claude buy the Warp staff in order to send...   One of the game's BEST units, and one of the game's WORST units; to the rescue!  NEXT!  Oh hai Morgaaan~. Are you hear to ruin my day?  Not if Ardan can help it! For you see, these Thracians have neglected to do one very important thing...  "Always be prepared for ANYTHING!". Don't just prepare for cavalry, don't just prepare for magic users, don't just prepare for staff wielders, don't just prepare for Generals...prepare for EVERYTHING!  Look at these poor fools. They brought their horseslayers, and never thought to bring anything else! They probably attacked Sigurd, expecting his band to be yet another Cavalry only band (as it was when we started the Prologue).   But Sigurd's army has changed. Sigurd isn't just leading Chalphies. He's not just leading Lensterians. He's not even just leading Grandbellians! He's leading warriors from ALL across the continent! Warriors, whose countries specialized in as many different fighting styles as there are grains of sand on a beach. A they have at least one talented person to handle every challenge Sigurd can possibly imagine!  And THAT'S truly what makes Sigurd's army so great. The Thracians are over specialized; the Verdanites were over specialized, the Silesians were over specialized, the Phinorans were over specialized...almost every single one of Sigurd's foes had one answer, and ONLY one answer to all their problems. How else is ARDAN, of all people, doing so well? It's not because he's amazing, it's because there's a huge hole in the Thacian's strategy that Ardan just so happens to be able to exploit.  The only people we've fought so far who have had any kind of mixed team were the groups we fought in Chapter 2; and I don't think it's any coincidence that THAT happens to be one of the most dreaded Chapters in Gen 1. I still consider that one harder than anything we've faced here.   Every unit type can be easily swept aside with one tactic or another. Axefighters are helpless against sword fighters, sword fighters are walked by generals, generals can be roasted in their armor by mages, mages can be easily swept aside by Pegasus riders, Pegasus riders can be annihilated by archers, archers can be bum rushed by horse riders, and horse riders... ... Well, we all just saw what happened to Cuan, didn't we? Even the game's most useful unit type can be trivialized under the right circumstances.  So even if our enemies do well against a fraction of our units, it doesn't matter.  Our "style" is no style. Our "strategy" is "all strategies". Our ethnic makeup includes a bit of everything. Hence...  Nothing can stand against us for long; ESPECIALLY not a country that's USED to only fighting one kind of foe. Trabant's only ever had to fight soldiers in the Manster district, and it shows.  ...Though, even that doesn't explain this random bit of doofiness. I'd have thought they'd target the guy that's locked to 2-Range, but...I guess not?  Anyways, this is all getting into fan fiction territory, but; I like to imagine that that's the REAL reason Sigurd's army is so strong. Their strength doesn't come from easily measurable factors like numbers and equipment. Instead, it comes from having highly determined, highly capable people who all believe in what Sigurd is doing, and bring a wide variety of tool sets and military experience that aren't typically found in just ONE army.   "Ephraim225" mentioned that Sigurd's army seemed to "pose a much more massive threat that they realistically would", and I think that's probably why.          Sigurd's enemies probably look at him, and see the same thing that poster saw; a puny group that is outnumbered, outgunned, and at a home field disadvantage in every land they invade. That's why they keep underestimating him and Oifaye; under MOST circumstances, such a group would be easily swept aside by an army that's bigger, stronger, better supplied, and knows the land much better than Sigurd. Heck, Reptor HIMSELF already one-shots almost everyone in our army! But his SERVANTS can all tank a hit from him! Enemy HP growth is set at 100% for all enemies in the game, and that's starting to show. But none of that matters; because we have a plan even now.   Claude wrapped Aideen to Phinora just a little while ago, and now he's repairing the Warp Staff before selling it to her.   And there she is, with the Warp Staff for her children, and the Physic   It doesn't matter if Reptor can do 42 Damage to Levin. Aideen restores 35 via Libro, Levin is as prepared to kill a Thunder Mage as a man can possibly be, and I know exactly how to manipulate the A.I.  Reptor: Now let’s crush the enemy!It doesn't matter if Reptor has all the men the Earth can produce, and all the Holy Weapons the Heavens can bless him with.  Nothing will save a man from his own folly; not unless they have someone they're willing to listen to.   The winds of fate have changed. And what goes around... .gif) ...comes around. .gif) And with Reptor dead...  His troops are a problem no more. Sigurd's troops are strong. They are intelligent. They are as diverse as the colors of the rainbow. But most importantly, they have given Sigurd their hearts. Where Reptor's troops will surrender the moment their leader falls, Sigurd's troops would just fight THAT much harder. Sigurd's death would make the fire of their will burn that much brighter, not snuff it out. But, even were that not the case...  Aida: Kill every one of them. No one is to be spared!Reptor would still be doomed.   There's no helping him, and even his supposed "allies" know this.  Reptor is simply too dangerous. His ALLIES know that he will ALWAYS be grasping for power. He'll always feel entitled to get more power, and will ALWAYS be willing to kill and steal in order to get it...  Aida: You might as well just give up.But most important is this. He will never, ever...EVER "give up". He will die before he will ever admit that he has a problem. REPTOR VS. TILTYU Reptor: Ti, Tiltyu… It’s you… I knew that you were with the rebel army, but I never expected to face you like this… Tiltyu: Father… I’m so sorry… Reptor: Grr… Claude!! You decieved my daughter… In any case… House Freege’s reputation must be defended. Tiltyu, you have to die. Tiltyu: ! …father...He will always, ALWAYS have an excuse for everything he does. It doesn't matter if his own daughter is on his chopping block; he'll just tell himself all about how he's "defending House Freege's reputation". He'll tell his family all about how Claude "deceived" his daughter, without acknowledging the personal failures that DROVE her into Claude's arms to start with. Nothing is ever his fault. All of his problems are because of other people. That's probably why he STARTED this whole conspiracy to start with: "It's Prince Kurth's fault that I'm not happy with my life. It's Prince Kurth's fault that King Azmur doesn't listen to absolutely EVERYTHING I have to say. If ONLY I could get him out of the way. I'm not murdering people because I have stuff I need to change! I'm doing it because it's the only way to get the power and influence that I DESERVE!!" REPTOR VS. SIGURD   Sigurd: Entrapping my father and Prince Kurth… You know what actually happened! Reptor: Hmph, you idiot! Politics is all about power! Your father had no power, which is why he died. You’re a knight, that much should be obvious to you. Sigurd: Knights respect honour and justice, and what you’ve done isn’t just. I’ve returned to restore Grandbell’s reputation! Reptor: You’ve gone to a lot of trouble, but this is as far as you’ll get. You’ll die a traitor, just like Byron. Your strength is nothing compared to my Torhammer. Soon you’ll see how powerless you really are… Mwahaha...Even at the end of his rope, with his back pressed against the weight of the world...Reptor will never bleed. He'll never surrender, never admit that he needs help. He will always wear his pride, like a noose around his neck.  I don't believe that "being a 'bad' person" is what truly dooms a man. "Being 'intelligent'" isn't what helps a man change his attitude. "Getting his 'just deserts'" won't automatically turn a person's life around. I believe that even the stupidest, most spoiled, downright EVIL people can be helped. Everyone in the world can change, if they truly want to... But there's no helping a person who won't admit that they have a problem. There's no helping someone who would rather convince themselves that "up" is "down" rather than ever accept correction. Improvement is only possible for those who can handle criticism, regardless of how hurtful it may be. And so...  Reptor: Gah...Reptor's time in the sun has come to an end; like it was always meant to. As for Sigurd and his men...   They breath a collective sigh of relief as they enjoy the fruits of their blood, sweat, and tears.   Their children can only prosper from all they will inherit from their parent's countless sacrifices. Of course...there is one another thing on my heart...   I wish I could wrap this update up in a neat little bow. I wish I could moralize to you all, and say "Merry Christmas to all, and to all a good night". But, there's one more ever present reality in our world. Something else, besides the fact that diversity is better than conformity, and the fact that pride always precedes a fall.   Something else, besides the fact that diversity is better than conformity, and the fact that pride always precedes a fall.  The reality is this:  There is yet one more enemy that has not been slain. There is one more enemy, one that will NOT be stopped as easily as the one Levin just defeated. As long as he exists...death will always have the last word on Earth. The Heavens will always be fine of course; life will not end along with one's earthly form. But...nothing in the world can ever make up for someone's absence; not in our world, and not in Sigurd's.   Aida: Alvis has been aware all along of your innocence. This has all been a conspiracy by Duke Reptor and Duke Langbart. Their influence was just too much for Alvis to be able to do anything. Sigurd: Is that right? Well, good. This has all turned out for the best then. I can finally clear my father’s name. Aida: …Yes. His Majesty and Alvis are anxiously awaiting your arrival in the capital. Please, see to it that you make your way there. Sigurd: Really? Alright. Well, we should get going then. Aida: Apparently, Alvis has arranged for Barhara’s Royal Guard to receive you and your troops. It sounds like they’ve planned quite a celebration for your triumphant return. Sigurd: Wonderful! That should make for a nice closing for all we’ve been through. And I can finally get some compensation to all those who have fought with me. Aida: Indeed...Never neglect your family; not now, not ever. Do not ever let envy, close-mindedness, bitterness, disaster, or pride ever stop you from enjoying the people who really matter. Things can always be replaced...but people cannot. Merry Christmas everyone...and God bless you. FE4 Gen 1 End - Death of a Hero Fionordequester fucked around with this message at 05:19 on Jan 4, 2017 |
|
#
?
Dec 25, 2016 08:15
|
|
|
wait are there seriously no gen 2 units with axes
|
|
#
?
Dec 25, 2016 18:02
|
|
|
rannum posted:wait are there seriously no gen 2 units with axes Understand that, for the first 4... really 6 games, IntSys considered Axe's to be the enemies weapon. Fighters didn't promote in 1. They were hardly there in 2 (If not at all I don't remember. Game was very non-standard). In 3 Gen-2 you get no axe users period and they give you a Silver Axe and say "Sell this for money" And in 4, no CHILD unit is a primary axe unit. Which means none of them can inherit it. Those weapons are distributed to enemies in the game so they can drop them for your next gen.
|
|
#
?
Dec 25, 2016 18:54
|
|
|
Onmi posted:Understand that, for the first 4... really 6 games, IntSys considered Axe's to be the enemies weapon. Fighters didn't promote in 1. They were hardly there in 2 (If not at all I don't remember. Game was very non-standard). In 3 Gen-2 you get no axe users period and they give you a Silver Axe and say "Sell this for money" And in 4, no CHILD unit is a primary axe unit. Which means none of them can inherit it. Well I guess only the children being axeless isn't AS bad but the bold is genuinely amazing.
|
|
#
?
Dec 25, 2016 19:51
|
|
|
Nooo not Ardan, we have lost a true hero  Welp, guess I finally got to attend the barbecue at Big Friendly Al's in person. I mean, I knew it was coming, the one thing everybody knows about FE4 is that Sigurd dies in a fire, but it's pretty cool actually seeing it, nevertheless. Expecting good things from gen2.
|
|
#
?
Dec 25, 2016 19:51
|
|
|
rannum posted:wait are there seriously no gen 2 units with axes If memory serves there are exactly three and two are mutually exclusive. No children though. People do promote into them though
|
|
#
?
Dec 25, 2016 21:52
|
|
|
Onmi and Foolycharged are both correct. There are only three units that start off being able to use axes, and none of them are child characters. As for Fire Emblem Gaiden...that one was weird. Unit animations would show characters attacking with weapons even when they didn't actually have one equipped; equipment was entirely OPTIONAL in that game. So while their was a "Thief" class that used axes in their attack animations...there were no axes that a unit could actually EQUIP. Does that make sense to you all? vilkacis posted:Welp, guess I finally got to attend the barbecue at Big Friendly Al's in person. I mean, I knew it was coming, the one thing everybody knows about FE4 is that Sigurd dies in a fire, but it's pretty cool actually seeing it, nevertheless. Expecting good things from gen2. You...you were ONE OF THEM! WERENT YOU?! You and your other Mage friends should be ASHAMED of yourself! Fionordequester fucked around with this message at 23:18 on Dec 25, 2016 |
|
#
?
Dec 25, 2016 23:16
|
|
|
It's a special level of dickery, pulling Sigurd's own brainwashed wife out to meet him right before having him executed. Also, give the man credit, he did not underestimate Sigurd at all. How metal is it that he was executed by meteors raining from the sky?
|
|
#
?
Dec 25, 2016 23:43
|
|
|
Wow. I mean, I'd heard FE4's plot was a lot darker than most of the series, and I already knew Sigurd didn't make it all the way through, but that is a hell of a way to mark the end of your first act. IntSys didn't pull any punches back then.
|
|
#
?
Dec 25, 2016 23:50
|
|
|
Thracia's story is pretty dark, too. The Jugdral games had pretty good storytelling. Even if their gameplay might be a bit lacking (looking at you, Thracia 766, and your stupidly hard bullshit you fling at the player!).
|
|
#
?
Dec 26, 2016 00:07
|
|
|
I will say, as loving metal as that scene is... very few people actually DIE at Valhalla actually, including Sigurd. Sigurd is captured and then given a public execution. Quite a few of the squad survive, and die later on in frankly ways that make you kind of wish they had just died here. Poor Titlyu is basically tortured by her siblings until she's a shell of herself and just dies. Azel is locked away by Alvis who couldn't quite bring himself to kill his brother, but eventually the Lopt sect gets to him. Lachesis does make it to Finn, but eventually disappears in the desert, turned to stone. The only people who absolutely die in this battle are Levin, Briggid and Claude. And the former two are possessed by their respective dragons so they can continue living, with Claude hanging around as a Force Ghost. This was all meant to be setup for an intended third generation, but ultimately the game concluded on Gen 2. Which I feel is to its strengths. Gen 1 is the perfect "Before the game setup" prequel that many games leave to the opening text crawl. It shows how one man attempting to do nothing more than save his friends and survive loses everything to the forces of darkness at work. In another game, Sigurd is the ancient hero who couldn't stem the tide of darkness. In this game he's our protagonist, and we get to witness the how and why he couldn't.
|
|
#
?
Dec 26, 2016 03:22
|
|
|
Onmi posted:I will say, as loving metal as that scene is... very few people actually DIE at Valhalla actually, including Sigurd. Sigurd is captured and then given a public execution. Quite a few of the squad survive, and die later on in frankly ways that make you kind of wish they had just died here. Poor Titlyu is basically tortured by her siblings until she's a shell of herself and just dies. Azel is locked away by Alvis who couldn't quite bring himself to kill his brother, but eventually the Lopt sect gets to him. Lachesis does make it to Finn, but eventually disappears in the desert, turned to stone. Huh...I knew SOME of that thanks to Serenes Forest...but there were also other tidbits in there that I didn't know. Where did you get all your info? I only checked the "Designer Notes", "Shouzo Kaga's Comments", and "FE Treasury". I didn't see anything in them about Sigurd not actually dying at Valhalla and Claude living on as a Force Ghost
|
|
#
?
Dec 26, 2016 08:27
|
|
|
Fionordequester posted:Huh...I knew SOME of that thanks to Serenes Forest...but there were also other tidbits in there that I didn't know. Where did you get all your info? I only checked the "Designer Notes", "Shouzo Kaga's Comments", and "FE Treasury". I didn't see anything in them about Sigurd not actually dying at Valhalla and Claude living on as a Force Ghost It turns out Sigurd's fate came from my gross misunderstanding of when they say "He was executed" as for Claude it comes from Thracia 776 and one of the characters having mentioned communicating with Claude's spirit. It's not quite Force Spirit so much as him now having taken Blaggi Tower's position as communicating with the priests. Also found a funny as hell comment while looking to confirm the info quote:I don’t think that players choosing a gender, name, etc. for the main character will happen in future games, because I think the hero is not the same as the player.” I mostly got it from a bunch of sources like Serenes and the wiki. The Wiki was where I confirmed characters fates basically.
|
|
#
?
Dec 26, 2016 08:48
|
|
|
Onmi posted:I don’t think that players choosing a gender, name, etc. for the main character will happen in future games, because I think the hero is not the same as the player.” Lol. Man, how the times have changed . And thanks for the info Onmi; I'm thinking that next update will be a wrap up of all the miscellaneous stuff I didn't manage to fit in by the end. For example, the Expanded Universe materials I've been linking from time to time actually explain a lot of Alvis's otherwise inexplicable actions at the end. The game itself doesn't actually explain a whole lot in regards to that, so I'm more than happy to post some of that stuff before we move on to the next update. He wasn't doing that stuff JUST because the writers decided they wanted us to hate him in that brief moment And once that's done? Well, I'm thinking I'll TRY to get the first Chapter 6 update up by New Year's. That's a tight deadline, and I won't rush it if I think it'll hurt the final product...but it'd be neat for symbolism! LordHippoman posted:IntSys didn't pull any punches back then. Indeed they didn't; or at least, Kaga didn't. And I have to say; I respect the HECK out of any man that's willing to take as many risks as he did. Not all of said risks are in good taste, sure (for example, my complaints about Sylvia's relationship with Claude); but then, that kind of comes with the territory, doesn't it? Torrannor posted:Thracia's story is pretty dark, too. The Jugdral games had pretty good storytelling. Even if their gameplay might be a bit lacking (looking at you, Thracia 766, and your stupidly hard bullshit you fling at the player!). Hm...I might actually do that, at some point. I've never played it, and it seems like it'd be another good Fire a emblem to do. Every time I think of LPing any of the others, I think "this one doesn't have ranks, so my LP would look too similar to the many thousands of Efficiency Runs done over the years", or "It's one of the GBA FE's; therefore that would mean I would have to deal with dumb fixed RNG shenanigans when creating optimal strategies". Fionordequester fucked around with this message at 09:21 on Dec 26, 2016 |
|
#
?
Dec 26, 2016 08:57
|
|
|
Fionordequester posted:Lol. Man, how the times have changed I think Kaga probably really liked old tales like the Ring saga, and essentially wanted to make Video Game That with warts and all.
|
|
#
?
Dec 26, 2016 09:25
|
|
|
Onwards, to the second generation and growth rates that look like they came out of Awakening! For truth, justice and incest! Also, how many second-gener's make appearances in Thracia 776? Obviously there's Leif, Delmud, Nanna, Finn, Sety and Seliph, Altenna, Julia, Corple and Hannibal make cameos, but anyone else?
|
|
#
?
Dec 26, 2016 10:59
|
|
|
Junpei posted:Onwards, to the second generation and growth rates that look like they came out of Awakening! For truth, justice and incest! None, but they did plan to have the Substitutes show up as characters. And at another point Arthur.
|
|
#
?
Dec 26, 2016 11:13
|
|
|
Fionordequester posted:Lol. Man, how the times have changed To be fair, I don't think that quote has quite been denied*, as My Unit is not the main character, but the MC's second in command/tactician/possible bachelorette. *until FE Fates I guess? My Unit is the main character there right?
|
|
#
?
Dec 26, 2016 11:53
|
|
|
Fionordequester posted:You...you were ONE OF THEM! WERENT YOU?! You and your other Mage friends should be ASHAMED of yourself! I can neither confirm nor deny these allegations. If you have further questions, I will need to refer you to my associate ->  Onmi posted:I will say, as loving metal as that scene is... very few people actually DIE at Valhalla actually, including Sigurd. well that's dumb don't dump cutscene meteors on people and tell me they don't die
|
|
#
?
Dec 26, 2016 12:00
|
|
|
Omobono posted:To be fair, I don't think that quote has quite been denied*, as My Unit is not the main character, but the MC's second in command/tactician/possible bachelorette. Yup. Corrin, the Fates Avatar, is also the main lord. And a triple princess. And can turn into a dragon. Corrin is, no exaggeration, the worst written lord in the entire Fire Emblem series, and it seems to be in large part because of the Avatar traits. It's funny. A lot of pitfalls Robin carefully evaded, Corrin charges into at full speed. And by funny, I mean sad.
|
|
#
?
Dec 26, 2016 12:05
|
|
|
chiasaur11 posted:Yup. Robin wasn't that much better. The main benefit they had was being "Intelligent" so the player doesn't feel like they've self inserted on a maroon. I hate the Avatars though. I find them an awful design choice for exactly why Kaga said they would be, even though I don't agree with 99% of his design decisions (If you need to see why, He's recently released SRPG game is a major example of how he's very old school as a developer in the worst ways.)
|
|
#
?
Dec 26, 2016 12:17
|
|
|
Onmi posted:Robin wasn't that much better. The main benefit they had was being "Intelligent" so the player doesn't feel like they've self inserted on a maroon. I heavily disagree. Even aside from the basic "Robin isn't a blithering imbecile to point the player is ashamed to be associated with him", they did a lot of things right with Robin that Corrin hosed up. Lessee... First, Robin had a coherent and consistent personality in supports and the main game, complete with gags and recurring elements. Robin's pretty steadily portrayed as intelligent and willing, but self doubting and a bit of a pushover. Several supports even give Robin A Deal like the rest of the cast, even if he's more low-key. Corrin, meanwhile, has nothing you can point to that stays sturdy. Several second generation supports have Corrin be Robin-lite when it comes to tactics, and then the Leo support has him fail utterly. Corrin spares everyone early in Conquest, but has nightmares and ninja assassins after him for all the blood on his hands. Corrin is a friend to everyone... except Owain, who he's a total rear end in a top hat to. Corrin's charismatic according to everyone else, but it never shows. Second, Robin is, well, secondary as a protagonist through most of the game. He and Chrom support each other, with Chrom up being The Lord, and Robin playing the Soren or August role of the more pragmatic tactician. Yes, yes, Robin winds up being the crux of the plot, but it's built up, with enough spotlight left for other characters to have their own arcs. Meanwhile, Corrin dominates everything to an absurd degree. Moreover, Robin's focus derives from negative traits that must be overcome (which harken back to some things showing up later in this very entry in the series!), where Corrin's focus comes from an ever-increasing list of heroic credentials thrown in his or her lap. Third, where Robin has part of the cast obsessed over him, Corrin has almost everyone going all in on it. Multiple supports have both people talking about how much they love Corrin as the primary through-line. You can even look at their kids. Morgan and Kanna both have their obsessions, but where Morgan wants to emulate something Robin does, which leads to his or her distinct personality, Kana just likes that Corrin Is, leaving a blank husk that only exists to play cute child to groom the player's ego. Finally, Robin and Chrom actually have a friendship. They reinforce each other's weaknesses, they spend time together, and in distress they immediately go to the other's aid. Meanwhile, Corrin and Azura try for the same thing, without any of the groundwork. Robin is grounded in the narrative by his attachments to the real lords in the game, while Corrin's elevation by the other supposedly central characters (along with Azura's tendency towards pointless secrets) makes it harder to believe in him or her. Robin's not perfect, but he's still eight circles of hell away from Corrin. chiasaur11 fucked around with this message at 12:37 on Dec 28, 2016 |
|
#
?
Dec 26, 2016 12:43
|
|
|
About the explanation to Sigurd's success in battle, it is true that having a high variety of soldiers and commanders with different experiences. That way it's very likely that regardless of what the enemies are doing, there's someone who has seen that tactic before and can tell Sigurd various things like the strengths and weaknesses of said tactic. There are however disadvantages as well. One disadvantage is the difficult of organizing your army. You will have an easier time organizing five units of spearmen, three units of cavalry and two units or archers than the same number of unique units. You could say that Sigurd's army gradually got more types of units and had a lot of time to adapt though. There is however another problem in that while you can exploit almost every weakness, your ability to do so will often be limited. If the enemies have a weakness that makes horse archers effective against them and only 5% of your army consists of horse archers, then 5% of your army is all who can take advantage of that weakness. Some tactic are also more or less disabled with an army like Sigurd's. If Sigurd gets into a situation where he'd want to form a spear-wall, tough luck unless all he needs is a really short spear-wall. The enemies tend to not only be overspecialized, but unreasonable so. The counters are also really hard in this game. There are medieval weapons that are more effective against horses than other in real life, but no "horse killers". Soldiers are by this game not allowed to do anything else than poking at their enemies with their weapons. The vyvern riders could have surrounded Ardan and then have whoever is behind him simple ram him with his Vyvern. Or try to grapple him or do just about anything else than uselessly having their weapons bounce off against his armor. The game engine doesn't allow it though thus making a particular counter unreasonable hard. There are other such examples where the game exaggerates an advantage or flat out creates one of thin air. This is in addition to overpowered units like Sigurd himself who can solo most of the game. That said, the Vedanians would lose even harder in real life than in this game. Their units consists mainly of axemen with no armor and no shields, which is overspecialization in this game, but in real life it would be an army that is weak against every enemy (including spearmen) and strong against none. I think that ultimately Sigurd would have to be a great leader who not only can organize his army well, but also deal with conflict within his own army well, an excellent tactician who never gets outmaneuvered by his enemy in terms of combat (though he gets outmaneuvered in terms of politics all the time) and charismatic enough to keep recruiting a higher number of soldiers than what he looses. I guess that's more or less what happens in this game.
|
|
#
?
Dec 26, 2016 15:33
|
|
|
Crystalgate posted:I think that ultimately Sigurd would have to be a great leader who not only can organize his army well, but also deal with conflict within his own army well, an excellent tactician who never gets outmaneuvered by his enemy in terms of combat (though he gets outmaneuvered in terms of politics all the time) and charismatic enough to keep recruiting a higher number of soldiers than what he looses. I guess that's more or less what happens in this game. Actually...Oifaye was the guy that was in charge of tactics and the like, remember? .PNG) Alec (Prologue; one of his very first lines): Actually, Oifaye takes credit for that one. I tell ya, that kid’s a strategist in the making. Takes right after that famous grandfather of his, Lord Sesar.I'm thinking that Oifaye might've been the one responsible for helping Sigurd outmaneuver his foes...that is, before Sigurd sent him away to Isaac. Heck, maybe that's the only reason things ended so disastrously; Oifaye might've looked at the way the Royal Guard was assembled, and thought... .PNG) Oifaye: "...Huh. Sir Sigurd, doesn't this seem an awful lot like [this or that formation]? It seems odd that Alvis would change his mind so quickly, too...I think we should do [this or that] just in case."chiasaur11 posted:I heavily disagree. I also agree with everything stated here, with the caveat that Chrom WAS awful quick to promoted Robin to head strategist.m But then, Frederick himself pointed out the folly of doing this, and Chrom IS basically a cross between Hector and Sigurd, so...that's not too bad. Honestly, Robin was one of my favorite characters in that whole game. I wasn't particularly sure why he was so disliked, unlike Chris and Corrin. Fionordequester fucked around with this message at 17:56 on Dec 26, 2016 |
|
#
?
Dec 26, 2016 17:36
|
|
|
Makes sense, strategy and tactics can be handed over to someone else, leadership and charisma not so much. You'd still want the leader to have a fairly good tactical sense in case the original plan doesn't go as planned (happens very often) and you need to improvise without having the time to discuss with your tactician, but we have reduced the need of Sigurd's tactical prowess from excellent to capable.
|
|
#
?
Dec 26, 2016 18:33
|
|
|
Corrin is worse than Robin (who I also enjoyed, but I liked the bulk of awakening so...) because they're just such a nothing character at best and actively annoying at worst ( c o n q u e s t ) Azura felt like she should have been the main lord. Conquest & Revelation are more for her but they still present it haphazardly as Corrin's. Conquest in particular is spurred on by her taking direct action and I was significantly more in her emotional corner in the final chapters nonsense than the royals'.
|
|
#
?
Dec 26, 2016 20:34
|
|
|
I... forgot your pairings, sorry. I at least know you're going Ferry/Fury x Claude and Titlyu x Levin, but I forgot the rest. Can you refresh my memory?
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2016 00:31
|
|
|
Fionordequester posted:Actually...Oifaye was the guy that was in charge of tactics and the like, remember? I think it also helps that we see Robin isn't the only person getting absurd amounts of benefit of the doubt from Chrom. Gaius is another of his best friends, and the "How they met" there is "So, I was hired to murder his sister..." It's a flaw of Chrom's, rather than a particular virtue of the Avatar's. Which, like with Sigurd, comes back to bite him in the rear end. Hard. (I'm pretty sure that most of the backlash just comes down to the fact Robin is an avatar character, and people with an innate revulsion towards the concept will pick at anything to further show their distaste. Really doesn't seem to be that much hate, though. Some, but I've seen more "I don't like the concept, and the way Robin dominates the plot come endgame, but assuming you have to include an avatar, Robin's mostly alright." even on the negative side of the equation.) Really, Chrom owes much more to Sigurd than to Marth. There's a solid amount of the Lex-Hector-Ike line for flavor, especially since Chrom's much less to-the-manner-born than Sigurd, but they've got some pretty strong similarities. Sadly, from what I remember, Seliph isn't nearly as interesting a second gen lead as Lucina is, but I'll be quite happy if I'm proven wrong. chiasaur11 fucked around with this message at 02:46 on Dec 27, 2016 |
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2016 02:43
|
|
|
Junpei posted:I... forgot your pairings, sorry. I at least know you're going Ferry/Fury x Claude and Tiltyu x Levin, but I forgot the rest. Can you refresh my memory? Righto! quote:Aideen X Jamka And you can always look at the War Room: Part 5 update if you ever forget again! God bless you Junpei! Fionordequester fucked around with this message at 03:11 on Dec 27, 2016 |
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2016 03:03
|
|
|
Ah, I see. Thank you. Although for me, at least, I always go Levin x Fury, partially because Thracia 776 makes it canon and partially because it's really sweet. But I understand you wanting Fee to be basically a flying Ethlyn with combat viability and Ced to threaten capping a few stats rather than guaranteeing maxing one.
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2016 03:23
|
|
|
Junpei posted:Ah, I see. Thank you. Although for me, at least, I always go Levin x Fury, partially because Thracia 776 makes it canon and partially because it's really sweet. But I understand you wanting Fee to be basically a flying Ethlyn with combat viability and Ced to threaten capping a few stats rather than guaranteeing maxing one. Granted I always go Levin/Fury to. But it's easy to understand the Titlyu appeal.
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2016 03:34
|
|
|
Onmi posted:If things had gone how they originally designed it, then Levin would have given the Holsety on Chapter 10 to his son. As it stands though, the question is "Do I want Holsety on chapter 6, then on a horse" or "Do I want Holsety in Chapter 8 on not a horse." Technically there's a third option in "Get it Chapter 9, but not until that character promotes and with no horse", but seriously, who would make Corple their Holsety user? I always go Sylvia x Claud, because then Corple can staffbot all the rest of the game. That, and Leen gets the highest Resistance growth in the game (at 65%, which admittedly is odd considering good pairings make sure their are growths higher than 100%) making her decent-ish at the GBA FE-style Dancer Long-Range Magic Tanking. But not by much, and I rarely use her like that. Which is why I'm raising an eyebrow at Slyvia x Dew. Dew I usually pair with Briggid (Sol helps Patty survive more, and Bargain is great to cut the cost of Yewfelle repairs in half for Faval). I guess Bargain does help Corple with staff repairs, and Leen can technically use Sol, but still, it's slightly iffy.
|
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2016 04:00
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 19, 2024 15:41 |
|
|
Junpei posted:Technically there's a third option in "Get it Chapter 9, but not until that character promotes and with no horse", but seriously, who would make Corple their Holsety user? I always go Sylvia x Claud, because then Corple can staffbot all the rest of the game. That, and Leen gets the highest Resistance growth in the game (at 65%, which admittedly is odd considering good pairings make sure their are growths higher than 100%) making her decent-ish at the GBA FE-style Dancer Long-Range Magic Tanking. But not by much, and I rarely use her like that. Which is why I'm raising an eyebrow at Slyvia x Dew. Dew I usually pair with Briggid (Sol helps Patty survive more, and Bargain is great to cut the cost of Yewfelle repairs in half for Faval). I guess Bargain does help Corple with staff repairs, and Leen can technically use Sol, but still, it's slightly iffy. Well....uh. First and foremost, I wasn't comfortable pairing a child with a fully grown woman like Brigid...so part of it is that. But even THAT aside, Bargain is EXTREMELY useful for Leen, as she would otherwise have a lot of trouble in the Arena. She has Prayer, and the Defense Sword + Defense Ring + Storage allows me to manipulate her HP in ways I could never do otherwise. But I can't GET those items unless I can afford them, can I? And I certainly wouldn't have much hope of buying the Elite or Pursuit Rings in the future, would I? So Sylvia X Dew was a combination of me not being comfortable with Brigid X Dew and me realizing that Sylvia X Leen was actually really helpful for leveling up Dew. EDIT: Er...I mean, Sylvia and DEW were really helpful for leveling up LEEN !
Fionordequester fucked around with this message at 06:12 on Dec 27, 2016 |
|
#
?
Dec 27, 2016 05:07
|
|