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TapTheForwardAssist
Apr 9, 2007

Pretty Little Lyres

(Note: I know we're an international forum, but TFR especially is US heavy, so I'm just saying "overseas" for "non-US")

I've noticed a few odd things about gun stuff as I've bounced around, so thought it'd be fun to have a thread for all the little things that make gun fans go "huh" when they go somewhere new. Not necessarily detailed breakdowns of comparative regulations, but the little things that jump out at you about civilian gun culture.

The incident that brought it to mind, I was looking for a knife from the MAM company, a Portuguese manufacturer that makes these knives vaguely like slabsided Opinels with a liner-lock. I passed by this shop in Porto that sells outdoor gear in general and dropped in. While I was browsing knives, I noticed their pistol case, and it was assorted revolvers and small autos. But on the edge of the case there's this big sign saying (roughly): "In accordance with recent law, those that have a permit for self-defense pistols may own up to (2) handguns, of 6.35 or 7.65 caliber". I looked a little closer, and it did indeed appear that every gun in the case turned out to be either a .25 ACP or a .32 ACP or S&W. The revolvers were a few Rossis (maybe a Taurus or two?) and a few older S&Ws, and a few semis that I didn't immediately recognize but were along the lines of the small Berettas. I kinda wanted to take a photo but figured the owner might be weird about it, but then again I've already bought my knife and I know I'm not up to ill poo poo so maybe I should just snap a photo regardless next time I pass by. No idea on prices though since every single pricetag was tucked underneath the handgun, presumably deliberately as a "unless you need to know, it's none of your business" move.

On a completely separate issue, and many years ago, I was backpacking around Turkey. I was down in Diyarbakir in the south, during one of the brief periods where the Kurds were laying low (early years of the Iraq War) and so it wasn't an absolutely terrible idea to go dicking around in Turkish Kurdistan as an American. I popped into a gunshop there, and since I was far south enough I was able to use my minimal Arabic to chat with the shopkeep and talk about gun stuff. They had a large number of shotguns, break action, pump, and IIRC semi-auto. No rifles at all, but a good number of handguns, mostly Turkish clones of Beretta, CZ, and the like. I was asking about that, and was told that handguns are slightly tricky to buy but not terrible, because the government figures you want it for home defense, maybe authorized carry for some jobs. Shotguns not too hard to get since they're common for hunting. But it's rifles that are the sticking point since the government's main concern is not you holding up a liquor store, it's that you'll headshot some Turkish Army soldier on patrol out of a window. The guys down in Diyarbakir said rifles were basically a no-go. That made some sense, but a week later I was way up in the far northeast in Trabzon, a gorgeous Seattle-esque rainy and green city on the Black Sea coast close to Georgia. I was walking down some small cobblestone street going to look at some "medieval Greek church taken over and converted to a mosque" building, when I passed by some open door where in the foyer an old dude and some friends were chilling, and he had a dang M1 Garand he was handling and showing to the guys. It was too far north for Arabic and my Turkish was poo poo then, but I just wandered up, gave a friendly wave, and haltingly explained that I owned the same rifle in the US and it's a really cool rifle, and the old guys smiled about that. As I left, I stopped short and pondered whether the rifle ban was just a Kurdistan thing and in Trabzon they were cool, or if the old guy had a special permit, or if it's a dewat and he has it as a memento of his draftee days

Just a few introductory points from my end.

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Craptacular
Jul 11, 2004



i was in california one time and apparently they have these weird laws like limiting magazines to 10 rounds

The Eyes Have It
Feb 9, 2008

Third Eye Sees All
...snookums

A relative was living and working in the UAE and weapons of any kind are 100% illegal. His daughter was getting interested in archery and however he did it he had her practicing with a little youth bow and was informed that that's uh really illegal get rid of that poo poo pronto. Probably he was cut some slack because he's a foreigner (and this was in the foreigner's compound, foreigners aren't allowed to own property or live outside the compound).

It never even occurred to him that archery (or slingshots, etc) would be a no-go. He just sort of assumed it only meant no guns because he likes that idea. Banning guns is a sensible enlightened thing but archery? Come on! It's just some harmless target practice it's not like she's going to attack someone, it's even an olympic sport for chrissakes

the is lost on him

The Eyes Have It fucked around with this message at 18:59 on Jun 19, 2015

bulletsponge13
Apr 28, 2010


In Iraq circa 03/04, I remember seeing people selling guns everywhere, but a conversation with our Terp was interesting. In Baghdad-
"Do you need hand grenades?"
"I don't think so?"
"There is the arms dealer, he has them for five dollars each. I thought we should buy some."
"Nah man, I think we better not. What are his other prices?"
"$25 for an AK, $40 for other rifles, and $90 for a pistol."
"Why are the pistols so much?"
"Because they are nice Beretta [most pistols we ran into were Tariqs, the Iraqi produced clone of the Beretta 55- I think that is the model), Makarovs, and Tokarevs, with various others mixed in] and because you can hide them. AKs are cheap because everyone has on, and no one wants another."
Interesting snippet to 19 year bulletsponge13.

Servicio en Espanol
Feb 5, 2009


A lot of foreign gun laws are to protect the government from the people, I think, be it revolution or insurgency or whatever. Hence why you get these goofball prohibitions on military-issue calibers. And why "Mexican gangster guns" were* .38 Super.

They can be weird about guns. India is a good example: they have a licensing system that would seem like it would be restrictive (on paper anyway) but they can be remarkably and arbitrarily free with them. In some places, at some times, they gave away gun permits to men who would get vasectomies, for instance.


*Now they are just government-issue (theirs or ours )

Craptacular
Jul 11, 2004



IIRC the other thing about India was that they're pretty much limited to domestically-made arms due to extremely high excise taxes on foreign arms, which resulted in the only handgun available being a .32 cal Webley-Fosbery or something weird like that.

Servicio en Espanol
Feb 5, 2009


Craptacular posted:

IIRC the other thing about India was that they're pretty much limited to domestically-made arms due to extremely high excise taxes on foreign arms, which resulted in the only handgun available being a .32 cal Webley-Fosbery or something weird like that.


They do a brisk business in Khyber-style knockoffs of dubious legality too.

Mortabis
Jul 8, 2010


When I was in Tallinn the tourist map had an ad on it advertising "TACTICAL SHOOTING CENTER. Probably the best equipped indoor shooting range in nordic countries! Over 30 different guns available. Desert Eagle, AK47, Glock, Shotgun, etc." That's the quote word for word. Here's a terrible cell phone picture:

thermobollocks
Jul 5, 2009

GET A DILLON

Mortabis posted:

When I was in Tallinn the tourist map had an ad on it advertising "TACTICAL SHOOTING CENTER. Probably the best equipped indoor shooting range in nordic countries! Over 30 different guns available. Desert Eagle, AK47, Glock, Shotgun, etc." That's the quote word for word. Here's a terrible cell phone picture:



You get a free surprise!

Kthulhu5000
Jul 25, 2006

by R. Guyovich


Servicio en Espanol posted:

A lot of foreign gun laws are to protect the government from the people, I think, be it revolution or insurgency or whatever. Hence why you get these goofball prohibitions on military-issue calibers. And why "Mexican gangster guns" were* .38 Super.

They can be weird about guns. India is a good example: they have a licensing system that would seem like it would be restrictive (on paper anyway) but they can be remarkably and arbitrarily free with them. In some places, at some times, they gave away gun permits to men who would get vasectomies, for instance.


*Now they are just government-issue (theirs or ours )

Hmm, interesting. From looking at the Indiansforguns.com forum, it has always seemed to me like India's gun laws are a clusterfuck of arbitrary and conflicting laws that vary among the districts and provinces of the nation, compounded by spotty retail availability.

Craptacular posted:

IIRC the other thing about India was that they're pretty much limited to domestically-made arms due to extremely high excise taxes on foreign arms, which resulted in the only handgun available being a .32 cal Webley-Fosbery or something weird like that.

http://ofbindia.gov.in/index.php?wh=Sporting%20Arms&lang=en

The government factory apparently offers a .22 revolver, a Webley-type revolver with short and long barrel versions in what appears to be ,.32 S&W Long and also a .32 ACP semi-automatic pistol. Still a pretty poor selection, especially since there appear to be some quality issues with the guns.

Butch Cassidy
Jul 28, 2010



Kthulhu5000 posted:

http://ofbindia.gov.in/index.php?wh=Sporting%20Arms&lang=en

The government factory apparently offers a .22 revolver, a Webley-type revolver with short and long barrel versions in what appears to be ,.32 S&W Long and also a .32 ACP semi-automatic pistol. Still a pretty poor selection, especially since there appear to be some quality issues with the guns.

I really want the ought-six bolt rifle and the FN 1910 knockoff.

Shima Honnou
Dec 1, 2010

The Once And Future King Of Dicetroit



College Slice

I want the snub Not-Webley. Also

quote:

II. Positive location of main spring eliminates malfunctioning
III. During non-functioning of weapon, springs are not under fatigue
IV. Misfiring of a round does not effect next firing

VIII. Provided with additional feature of safety to prevent accidents

That's how you know you're getting quality.

Servicio en Espanol
Feb 5, 2009


Kthulhu5000 posted:

Hmm, interesting. From looking at the Indiansforguns.com forum, it has always seemed to me like India's gun laws are a clusterfuck of arbitrary and conflicting laws that vary among the districts and provinces of the nation, compounded by spotty retail availability.


http://ofbindia.gov.in/index.php?wh=Sporting%20Arms&lang=en

The government factory apparently offers a .22 revolver, a Webley-type revolver with short and long barrel versions in what appears to be ,.32 S&W Long and also a .32 ACP semi-automatic pistol. Still a pretty poor selection, especially since there appear to be some quality issues with the guns.



Four month wait time between placing your order and getting your .32 ACP l m b o

Maybe the INSAS debacle isn't just an abberation.

TapTheForwardAssist
Apr 9, 2007

Pretty Little Lyres

The little .32 Webley knockoff is cute as hell. It's also one of those things where you're initially "what the gently caress?" but no further reflection note that a .32 Webley makes a ton of sense for an ex-British colony that (like Portugal) limits people to only small calibers. Presumably under the reasoning that low-power handguns are a decent deterrent against petty criminals, but aren't going to be a whole lot of use to someone who wants to charge a police checkpoint.




Kinda similar mentality with single-shot shotguns. Back in the day I'd read some Jeff Cooper piece about how those were popular for private security in Latin American and parts of Africa and Asia, since a 24" barrel NEF 12ga single is a pretty scary thing to have pointed out at you if you're trying to rob a liquor store with a machete, but won't do you much good against an army patrol with a bunch of FALs. A film I was watching recently set in Nigeria right at the moment of transition to self-rule, I noticed all the cops in the show were hauling around long single-shots as well.

I noted this in person when I was in Venezuela, in 2006 when things were a little rough but not yet total poo poo-show. I was chilling in this beach area up on the coast from Caracas, and noted that at a bunch of the bars and cafes they'd have a private security guy in slacks and blue shirt just perched on a stool, with a probably 12" pistol-gripped single-shot shotgun across his lap and iirc shells on his belt. At one point I sidled up to one and asked "so do they give you rubber bullets for those or what?" The guy popped open the chamber, held up a translucent shell you could see the lead buckshot through and said "nope". So yeah, pretty great gun against anyone without a gun, poo poo gun against anyone with a gun, just how the government likes it.


It is kinda interesting how very different this is from the American mentality, I guess both a reflection of different overall values, differing popularly-accepted uses, and different political conditions. There's just about nowhere in the US where you'd come under great scrutiny for having a .338 Lapua single-shot falling block with a massive tactical scope since the government figures you're pretty unlikely to hold up a liquor store or shoot up a school with that. Whereas in some of these other countries you'd have way less trouble owning a little pocket .380, maybe even one with a decent mag capacity, since the authorities are way more concerned that you'd use that big Lapua to shoot some gendarme through his vest from a click away in solidarity with the People's Popular Tendency Movement or whatever. Just a whole different take on the issue.

TapTheForwardAssist fucked around with this message at 16:38 on Jun 20, 2015

Somebody Awful
Nov 27, 2011

BORN TO DIE
HAIG IS A FUCK
Kill Em All 1917
I am trench man
410,757,864,530 SHELLS FIRED




TapTheForwardAssist posted:

The little .32 Webley knockoff is cute as hell.

It looks like they used the Enfield No. 2 as a base, which would make it a knockoff of a knockoff.

SadWhaleFamily
May 1, 2007



Sperglord Actual posted:

It looks like they used the Enfield No. 2 as a base, which would make it a knockoff of a knockoff.

So you can have a knockoff when you knock someone off

TapTheForwardAssist
Apr 9, 2007

Pretty Little Lyres

SadWhaleFamily posted:

So you can have a knockoff when you knock someone off

Yo dawg, I heard...

Somebody Awful
Nov 27, 2011

BORN TO DIE
HAIG IS A FUCK
Kill Em All 1917
I am trench man
410,757,864,530 SHELLS FIRED




All right, knock it off.

Drav
Jul 23, 2002

We've come a long way since that day, and we will never look back at the faded silhouette.

TapTheForwardAssist posted:

The little .32 Webley knockoff is cute as hell. It's also one of those things where you're initially "what the gently caress?" but no further reflection note that a .32 Webley makes a ton of sense for an ex-British colony that (like Portugal) limits people to only small calibers. Presumably under the reasoning that low-power handguns are a decent deterrent against petty criminals, but aren't going to be a whole lot of use to someone who wants to charge a police checkpoint.

Kinda similar mentality with single-shot shotguns. Back in the day I'd read some Jeff Cooper piece about how those were popular for private security in Latin American and parts of Africa and Asia, since a 24" barrel NEF 12ga single is a pretty scary thing to have pointed out at you if you're trying to rob a liquor store with a machete, but won't do you much good against an army patrol with a bunch of FALs. A film I was watching recently set in Nigeria right at the moment of transition to self-rule, I noticed all the cops in the show were hauling around long single-shots as well.

I noted this in person when I was in Venezuela, in 2006 when things were a little rough but not yet total poo poo-show. I was chilling in this beach area up on the coast from Caracas, and noted that at a bunch of the bars and cafes they'd have a private security guy in slacks and blue shirt just perched on a stool, with a probably 12" pistol-gripped single-shot shotgun across his lap and iirc shells on his belt. At one point I sidled up to one and asked "so do they give you rubber bullets for those or what?" The guy popped open the chamber, held up a translucent shell you could see the lead buckshot through and said "nope". So yeah, pretty great gun against anyone without a gun, poo poo gun against anyone with a gun, just how the government likes it.


It is kinda interesting how very different this is from the American mentality, I guess both a reflection of different overall values, differing popularly-accepted uses, and different political conditions. There's just about nowhere in the US where you'd come under great scrutiny for having a .338 Lapua single-shot falling block with a massive tactical scope since the government figures you're pretty unlikely to hold up a liquor store or shoot up a school with that. Whereas in some of these other countries you'd have way less trouble owning a little pocket .380, maybe even one with a decent mag capacity, since the authorities are way more concerned that you'd use that big Lapua to shoot some gendarme through his vest from a click away in solidarity with the People's Popular Tendency Movement or whatever. Just a whole different take on the issue.

It really is interesting and I never would've thought about it without this thread. So thanks.

Daikon
Apr 22, 2009


Craptacular posted:

i was in california one time and apparently they have these weird laws like limiting magazines to 10 rounds

edit: I don't want to bag on California, even though I think their laws are completely over the top. I actually wish everyone who wanted laws like that would move there.

Daikon fucked around with this message at 04:21 on Jun 21, 2015

Daikon
Apr 22, 2009


thermobollocks posted:

You get a free surprise!

I get that every time i see the price of ammo at my local range.

Mortabis
Jul 8, 2010


I'm pretty sure break open single shot shotguns are the least regulated firearms everywhere.

DookieSandwich
Nov 14, 2012


In Korea they tether handguns to the walls of the shooting bay. Presumably to prevent shooting yourself. Also you have to wear a vest.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoCgqm3udxg

Yuns
Aug 19, 2000

There is an idea of a Yuns, some kind of abstraction, but there is no real me, only an entity, something illusory, and though I can hide my cold gaze and you can shake my hand and feel flesh gripping yours and maybe you can even sense our lifestyles are probably comparable: I simply am not there.


DookieSandwich posted:

In Korea they tether handguns to the walls of the shooting bay. Presumably to prevent shooting yourself. Also you have to wear a vest.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoCgqm3udxg
This was definitely not the case in the 90s when I was shooting on Jeju Island. The tethering and vests must be a relatively new thing. Even though Korean males all have to serve in the military and thus get exposure to firearms, there is almost no private firearm ownership in Korea. I believe this was to a large extent due to the Japanese occupation followed by the post-WWII dictatorship. In theory, hunters and certain others can own firearms but I've never met a firearms owner in Korea. Things are going to get even stricter since they just had 2 mass shootings (3 victims each) ending in suicide in February involving hunting firearms.

Quickshanks
Oct 3, 2011

So damned good.

The first gun I ever shot was an AYA double barreled side-by-side that belonged to my maternal uncle in Durham, England. My family was there to provide some moral support to my mother's mother who had fallen ill and our uncle who was something of a classical English sportsman took it upon himself to entertain my two brothers and I. He wore a lot of Barbour clothing and he owned a pub, his home taking up the second story. In a wide back pasture and a locked shed he raised falcons and he demonstrated a game of catch he played with his peregrine, red-tailed hawk mix for us and allowed me to hold an eagle with a nine foot wing span he was babysitting for someone else. Then he took us skeet shooting. We shot a 12 gauge some 500 times by a roadside with traffic passing by, and there was no national panic.

When I got home, I was really most interested in taking up falconry, but found out it's a harder hobby to take up here than it is to get a handgun there, whereas it's possibly easier to get a falcon there than it is to get a shotgun here. The two countries have a very strange mixture of priorities. So I sated myself by collecting 39 revolvers and pistols of various makes and calibers and here I am today.

Quickshanks fucked around with this message at 06:22 on Jun 21, 2015

Vincent Van Goatse
Nov 8, 2006
I ran crying to the mods because someone bought me a title with naughty words in it. (twice!)
I am the world's softest bitch and you you should remind me of it forever. If this text is gone it's because I couldn't handle being a fucking loser.


Smellrose

Quickshanks posted:

When I got home, I was really most interested in taking up falconry, but found out it's a harder hobby to take up here than it is to get a handgun there, whereas it's possibly easier to get a falcon there than it is to get a shotgun here.

I don't really see a problem with this TBQH. It should be easier to get a falcon than a shotgun.

DookieSandwich
Nov 14, 2012


Pretty much true in almost any country is that if you're rich, the gun laws don't apply to you.

RavenKrows
May 29, 2008


ALL-PRO SEXMAN posted:

I don't really see a problem with this TBQH. It should be easier to get a falcon than a shotgun.

So a shotgun should cost more than the required housing and feed to take care of a living, predatory animal that requires a crap load more maintenance and love than a side-by-side?
*edit*
Good side by sides probably do cost more or about equal to actual initial cost, but I'll take a cheap pump over a falcon anyday.

RavenKrows fucked around with this message at 15:53 on Jun 21, 2015

Butch Cassidy
Jul 28, 2010



With a far greater chance of a minor environmental emergency taking place when you gently caress up and it eats something protected or the neighbors' pets.

Servicio en Espanol
Feb 5, 2009


"A ill-smelling aviary, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear obnoxious and disagreeable birds, shall not be infringed."

Servicio en Espanol fucked around with this message at 17:12 on Jun 21, 2015

Mortabis
Jul 8, 2010


Something something guns don't kill people/animals...

Birds are truly the worst pets. They're loud, they're assholes, they're a huge pain to feed and care for, and they live for like 300 years unless of course they kill themselves flying into your mirrors and windows.

Creamed Cormp
Jan 8, 2011

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN


Mortabis posted:

They're loud, they're assholes, they're a huge pain to feed and care for, and they live for like 300 years unless of course they kill themselves flying into your mirrors and windows.

But enough about Saudis

TapTheForwardAssist
Apr 9, 2007

Pretty Little Lyres

WitchFetish posted:

But enough about Saudis

Speaking of which, I watched a lot of music videos on ArabSat in Iraq. The Lebanese vids in particular, and some Egyptian ones, were full of hot female singers in miniskirts or skin-tight jeans. But the Gulfie videos were always just dudes, mostly in robes and keffiyehs, and a chunk of it (parallel with CMT) romanticized the rural lifestyle, driving around the desert in big SUVs and living in tents. One video I recall had this odd thing where the background dancers were guys with folded stock AKs, holding them up on the air and spinning them around on their hands like batons. I'm very curious how that's "a thing" and whether it's based on any actual Bedouin custom, or if they don't really have AKs but like to show off dewatts in videos to look more rural, untamed, and badass.

SocketWrench
Jul 8, 2012


Shima Honnou posted:

I want the snub Not-Webley. Also


That's how you know you're getting quality.

In fairness they probably import the kits from china, then assemble them into guns....that writing is just what the Chinglish on the instructions said

Vincent Van Goatse
Nov 8, 2006
I ran crying to the mods because someone bought me a title with naughty words in it. (twice!)
I am the world's softest bitch and you you should remind me of it forever. If this text is gone it's because I couldn't handle being a fucking loser.


Smellrose

RavenKrows posted:

So a shotgun should cost more than the required housing and feed to take care of a living, predatory animal that requires a crap load more maintenance and love than a side-by-side?
*edit*
Good side by sides probably do cost more or about equal to actual initial cost, but I'll take a cheap pump over a falcon anyday.

I didn't say it should be hard to get a shotgun.

~Coxy
Dec 9, 2003

R.I.P. Inter-OS Sass - b.2000AD d.2003AD

DookieSandwich posted:

In Korea they tether handguns to the walls of the shooting bay. Presumably to prevent shooting yourself. Also you have to wear a vest.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoCgqm3udxg

In Western Australia our main "tourist" range uses tethers, but it still doesn't stop the truly determined.
There is actually a campaign by some family members of suicidees to try to toughen up the laws for shooting without a licence even though in their particular cases it wouldn't have changed anything. (Victim was undiagnosed and followed a premeditated plan.)

iyaayas01
Feb 19, 2010

Perry'd


WitchFetish posted:

But enough about Saudis

lol holy poo poo

TapTheForwardAssist posted:

Speaking of which, I watched a lot of music videos on ArabSat in Iraq. The Lebanese vids in particular, and some Egyptian ones, were full of hot female singers in miniskirts or skin-tight jeans. But the Gulfie videos were always just dudes, mostly in robes and keffiyehs, and a chunk of it (parallel with CMT) romanticized the rural lifestyle, driving around the desert in big SUVs and living in tents. One video I recall had this odd thing where the background dancers were guys with folded stock AKs, holding them up on the air and spinning them around on their hands like batons. I'm very curious how that's "a thing" and whether it's based on any actual Bedouin custom, or if they don't really have AKs but like to show off dewatts in videos to look more rural, untamed, and badass.

Yeah it really is funny (but not really) just how hosed up/backwards the Gulf States are compared to everyone else in the region, the Saudis of course taking the cake in that aspect.

I'd be willing to guess that no, it's not an actual Bedouin custom (outside of the overarching "having guns" aspect of it), and that yes, they are all dewats because I feel fairly certain that the only guns within Saudi borders that the government is going to be willing to tolerate are guns that are within the possession of someone wearing a uniform associated with the Saudi government*

* Extremely oil rich Sunni Wahhabi assholes excepted, of course.

LimburgLimbo
Feb 10, 2008

One day I will be happy
every day


TapTheForwardAssist posted:

On a completely separate issue, and many years ago, I was backpacking around Turkey. I was down in Diyarbakir in the south, during one of the brief periods where the Kurds were laying low (early years of the Iraq War) and so it wasn't an absolutely terrible idea to go dicking around in Turkish Kurdistan as an American. I popped into a gunshop there, and since I was far south enough I was able to use my minimal Arabic to chat with the shopkeep and talk about gun stuff. They had a large number of shotguns, break action, pump, and IIRC semi-auto. No rifles at all, but a good number of handguns, mostly Turkish clones of Beretta, CZ, and the like. I was asking about that, and was told that handguns are slightly tricky to buy but not terrible, because the government figures you want it for home defense, maybe authorized carry for some jobs. Shotguns not too hard to get since they're common for hunting. But it's rifles that are the sticking point since the government's main concern is not you holding up a liquor store, it's that you'll headshot some Turkish Army soldier on patrol out of a window. The guys down in Diyarbakir said rifles were basically a no-go. That made some sense, but a week later I was way up in the far northeast in Trabzon, a gorgeous Seattle-esque rainy and green city on the Black Sea coast close to Georgia. I was walking down some small cobblestone street going to look at some "medieval Greek church taken over and converted to a mosque" building, when I passed by some open door where in the foyer an old dude and some friends were chilling, and he had a dang M1 Garand he was handling and showing to the guys. It was too far north for Arabic and my Turkish was poo poo then, but I just wandered up, gave a friendly wave, and haltingly explained that I owned the same rifle in the US and it's a really cool rifle, and the old guys smiled about that. As I left, I stopped short and pondered whether the rifle ban was just a Kurdistan thing and in Trabzon they were cool, or if the old guy had a special permit, or if it's a dewat and he has it as a memento of his draftee days

Japan is similar vis a vis the shotgun and rifle issue.

Japan has differing licenses for target shooting and hunting usage, with shotguns licenses being much more forgiving than rifle licenses. Shotgun licenses, while generally a hassle (it takes money, time, background check, sign-off from a psychologist, separate safes for ammo and firearm, periodic police checks, written test, practical test, etc.) can generally be obtained without issue for sport shooting, then with some extra paperwork for hunting, where you can use slug guns.

However rifles, while they can be obtained, are a whole different beast. For sporting purposes you have to be a part of the Japan National Rifle Association and I believe be actively competing. So you can't just have a rifle and shoot it every once in a while. For hunting with a rifle, however, you need to have been hunting with shotguns for 10 years before you can apply.

The result of this is that there are a lot of people that aren't able or don't want to shoot regularly, but want basically a rifle, so there's a category of guns in Japan called ハーフライフル (haafu-raifuru) or "half-rifle", which are guns that are legally shotguns but set up a like rifles to shoot slugs. Some of these are really just normal slug guns, but some are a little weird, like Remington M700s in .410.

Another kind of interesting fact in Japan is that apparently recently sport shooting and hunting has been picking up popularity with women, to the point that there was a TV special about an AKB48 member getting her license because

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9g1KiqGjBhI

Note if you understand Japanese this video is actually a really clear explanation of the process of getting your license, though.

mikerock
Oct 29, 2005




I am in Switzerland right now and it is more open than Canada but not as open as in the US, but I don't think that is a bad thing.

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ZebraBlade
Mar 26, 2010

Something is rotten in the state of Denmark

I am in ~middle-southern Germany for work now for the next 2 weeks. Maybe I will try to get a feel for their gun culture around here. I might try to make it over to the CZ factory in the czech rep with one of my off days.

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