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Fast Luck
Feb 2, 1988

Taste has pushed hard for KB and PMush so far and welp. That said, reading the spat he had with KB makes me think he's very likely to be town. If he's scum, he knows KB is town and yet very nearly got him lynched while promising to quit mafia forever if KB flipped town. That's a town read unless Taste actually wants to quit mafia haha. That's also why toxxes and stuff are against the rules though

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Fast Luck
Feb 2, 1988

While PMush voting you as a test to see your reaction would have made sense, I don't really feel like that's what she was doing. I think it was just her way of reading the game. Just like I don't think her case on Chic made a lot of sense, it was still her read on the game. And btw, I still think Chic has been pretty quiet for an experienced mafia player, so I'm not sure on her, I just didn't like PMush's reasoning. That said, PMush never felt insincere to me, which I said and is why I held off on voting her. Ultimately though, I did not want to no lynch so that's why I moved my vote near the end once it was clear nothing else was happening.

And this goes to Prop and Taste's discussion where they're both correct because it's a splitting of hairs. Not all that many people thought PMush was scum, but most people did agree that some of the content she was coming up with was bad.

Let me say that I think Daisy should be more chatty. Even if she doesn't have any strong feelings on account of being new, I feel like a town Daisy should be talking anyway. Also, EXAKT came roaring in voting 8Bux for reasons that don't hold up imo. Not sure what to make of that. Other people I feel have been townish or null to me.

Fast Luck
Feb 2, 1988

TMMadman posted:

I put my vote on PMom and it's staying there until someone can give me a better reason. PMom set the table for people to look at PMush and then hammered at it again a day later. The defense of the "PMush is posting bad content" argument seems to be a series of entirely low content posts and a reinterpreted quote. I'd also like to point out that PMom has come to the defense of Taste twice already. First, he stepped into the KB/TT spat by saying a TT vote is bad and voting KB and then did basically the exact same thing with the PMush vote but it's screened a bit by the reaction caused from PMush voting me. That is why I am also suspicious of Taste as well and I feel like they are working together. Allen and Met are just general suspicion from being associated with it at the moment.

Frankie just squawked "Vote PMom"
Okay, so I agree that Poison making a bad vote wasn't all that scummy but could have been used as an excuse to take her down. However, why would a scum player need to do that? I guess one possibility is they just wanted to seem towny. In PMom's case, he'd be portraying himself as an aggressive town scumhunter. In the case of the next few voters, they could be more cautious scum just jumping on the bandwagon because it was an easy vote to make. But in both cases, by doing this they saved the other potential target, imgay, who was the only other player that seemed feasibly at risk. If you read imgay, he starts off mostly just poo poo posting, then he makes that post upset about people judging him on past content, and then on D2 he made that post about not particularly liking the PMom/Taste interplay. Could other scum have saved him on D1 and told him to get his rear end in line? If you're looking at a list of four or five people and saying "well one of these people is probably scum" that's not giving us much but if you look at the alternative vote target list, the list of people who got bailed out, that was only one guy. I think I'll join team ##vote imgay.

That said, if we were to assume PMom is scum and then reread his posts, is there anything that jumps out? That could help the PMom case so that it's not entirely hinging on having voted PMush along with several others.

Fast Luck
Feb 2, 1988

This is the second time you've done this, Taste. First 8Bux made a post, you said "Are you scum" and he said no and explained his post, and you said the explanation was unnecessary, when it was completely natural because your question implied you had an issue with his previous post. Now you told Madman about WIFOM in reply to his post, and he took it to mean you were saying his post was venturing into WIFOM territory, and again you're saying that's not what you said. In both cases, a reasonable person would think you're implying what they thought you were implying

Fast Luck
Feb 2, 1988

Tremendous Taste posted:

Look at the bolded section of my post, especially where I call WIFOM generally worthwhile. There's no reasonable interpretation where that's bad.

Add that to ignoring the really important part of the post.


Words mean things
The second part of that post, the part about tying people together when none of them have flipped, I totally agree with and do think it deserved Madman's attention but yeah... If you tell someone what they're doing is WIFOM, and then in the next sentence say it's something that at a certain point becomes less fruitful to pursue, people make inferences as to what you're saying. Words mean things but there are also nonverbal cues, things not explicitly said, that people pick up on.

Fast Luck
Feb 2, 1988

For EXAKT I've found his posting to seem like he's been kinda reading through the thread but went ahead posting without checking up on past posts and confirming his impressions match with what's actually there. Examples: saying 8Bux said "honestly" a lot, asking if Daisy was new after she already said she was. That combined with the flavor has made him look bad so far but I'm not convinced that he was using wrestler flavor as a smokescreen.

Fast Luck
Feb 2, 1988

Tremendous Taste posted:

Met seems to be having trouble, so I want to crowd source this

:siren: if you have at any point in this game called me town or scum, please post it and bold it thank you~ :siren:
You're being incredibly overbearing in this thread and making the game less fun and vindicating KB re: the stuff he was saying on D1. I don't think you're scum or what Met is saying is backed up so I'm not going to vote for you but goddamn.

Fast Luck
Feb 2, 1988

Stuff like how 25 of the last 30 posts in this thread are probably from you. If you stopped and put together one thought-out post and then waited for a response or something the content may not even be that bad but it's just overwhelming and comes off as super pushy.

Fast Luck
Feb 2, 1988

KB was the tracker??

Fast Luck
Feb 2, 1988

Tremendous Taste posted:

The benefit to town is that it doesn't allow scum to pounce on a pmom taste narrative. It clarifies why I have faith in his reads as sincere
But weren't you telling Met that no one else in this game thought you were scum?

Fast Luck
Feb 2, 1988

How is that a snarky gotcha? He responded to Daisy that it was worth it to reveal his power role so that people wouldn't think you and him were scum bros, when just an hour ago he was saying nobody thought he was scum. Therefore, I'm questioning why he thought he needed to reveal his power role to take down that narrative. It's just a follow-up question because his posts are contradictory.

Fast Luck
Feb 2, 1988

Met posted:

I'm not interested in playing with you. I'm just going to replace out. Sorry about that, guys.
MMM won't let you do that, he'll just kill you.

Fast Luck
Feb 2, 1988

Tremendous Taste posted:

:siren: town watcher should absolutely watch me tonight.:siren:
There's definitely not one of those.

Anyway Daisy's argument is making a lot more sense to me than yours. I don't understand closing the barn door when someone has all of one vote on them and it's D2. The added irony is the people that don't believe you're a tracker anyway.

On the topic of the vote I still kind of like mine where I have it for the reasons stated earlier. I'm super amused by the idea that EXAKT scum slipped by roleplaying as heel Hogan though.

Fast Luck
Feb 2, 1988

Tremendous Taste posted:

Throw in a couple more posts digging around old games to justify the vote you yourself claimed was bad , yuck.
She didn't have to really dig around to find that other game she linked to, because in that example he was screwing over her. Which also explains why she wanted to vote him.

Fast Luck
Feb 2, 1988

Tremendous Taste posted:

Multiple games, fluck.
No, Narc only linked her own game.

Fast Luck
Feb 2, 1988

Yeah. Pmom linked that game, and then Narc added her own game. I don't count that as "digging around" but if you want to keep defending that whatever.

Fast Luck
Feb 2, 1988

Tremendous Taste posted:

defending what? she was spending time trying to support a vote she herself said wasn't good
Defending the statement I quoted and objected to. http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3727294&pagenumber=23&perpage=40#post447299081

"Throw in a couple more posts digging around old games to justify the vote you yourself claimed was bad , yuck."

That's a factually false statement. I didn't mention it before but first off she herself did not call her own vote bad. She said it wasn't bad. Secondly, Pmom came in and linked the serial killer game, and then Narc said yeah that and then also this, linking her own game. How much "digging around" do you think she had to do to find her own game from like a month or two ago? Moreover, linking that game provided further support to her claim that imgay's play is anti-town even when town.

Fast Luck
Feb 2, 1988

Tremendous Taste posted:

Oh, that drastically changes Met's chart then.
Yeah the chart doesn't work also because of the bit that Pmom quoted. Not all roles appear in this game.

Fast Luck
Feb 2, 1988

Tremendous Taste posted:

Before you go spelunking to try to gotcha that is, this one:
Why do you and PMom keep calling it a gotcha? It's somehow cheap to point out the fact that you went from saying there was no suspicion/heat to saying you claimed tracker to take off the suspicion? That makes so little sense, how is it a gotcha to point it out?

Fast Luck
Feb 2, 1988

Why did you out yourself as a tracker if there was so little heat? It's borderline nonsense!

Fast Luck
Feb 2, 1988

Yeah I read that and remember it but it doesn't add up at all. There was one vote, there wasn't going to be a mislynch, you yourself said there was little heat,


and then you out yourself as a second tracker to prevent the mislynch.

Fast Luck
Feb 2, 1988

Iirc I actually said I didn't find it very suspicious, but thought Madman's theory was amusing. The people that actually tried to vote for you were Taste and PMom.

Fast Luck
Feb 2, 1988

Tremendous Taste posted:

It's because two of them are probably scum op :)
By this reasoning you'd be scum
http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3727294&pagenumber=17#post447236000

And Pmom

Fast Luck
Feb 2, 1988

Fast Luck posted:

For EXAKT I've found his posting to seem like he's been kinda reading through the thread but went ahead posting without checking up on past posts and confirming his impressions match with what's actually there. Examples: saying 8Bux said "honestly" a lot, asking if Daisy was new after she already said she was. That combined with the flavor has made him look bad so far but I'm not convinced that he was using wrestler flavor as a smokescreen.
^^ Haha this is also funny because by saying I was suspicious of him for his flavor and not mentioning Taste and Pmom he once again did what I described in the first sentence.

Fast Luck
Feb 2, 1988

TMMadman posted:

In a game where I am supposed to be suspicious of everything, why shouldn't I be suspicious of someone choosing a heel character as self-imposed flavor?
Good call, it's a common scum error. Lots of newbie scum get busted by roleplaying as Don Corleone.

Fast Luck
Feb 2, 1988

Tremendous Taste posted:

shouldn't dissuade a guy from posting in this game fam
:ironicat:

Fast Luck
Feb 2, 1988

Pinterest Mom posted:

There's no reason you should be, unless you think EXAKT is a mustache-twirling villain who was thinking "I'll post as a bad guy :devil:" while being scum. I think the choosing to hide posts behind a self-imposed PR is scummy, but the actual choice of what the PR is is pretty much a null tell.
There's a guy on Big Brother this season who said he's going to wear a tophat whenever he's lying as part of his evil alter ego.

Fast Luck
Feb 2, 1988

Tremendous Taste posted:

i've pretty much begged people itt to post more
While telling them their opinions are invalid because they're not as experienced as you are, yeah.

Fast Luck
Feb 2, 1988

Pinterest Mom posted:

You're doing good!
Yeah agreed. I've liked a lot of what Madman has come up with. I just thought it was really funny to imagine scum roleplaying as the Godfather. The Hogan thing is sort of interesting but you're putting too much stock into it I think Madman.

Fast Luck
Feb 2, 1988

Tremendous Taste posted:

A belated thank you.

It certainly is weird that fluck daisy anarc and met won't answer this
My vote is already on imgay.

Fast Luck
Feb 2, 1988

Tremendous Taste posted:

That's a dodge, not an answer
Your logic with the whole tracker claim has been confounding me as I've made clear. Whether it's real or not I find Daisy's posts particularly sincere since she was saying a lot of what I was thinking. If people like Met and Narc don't believe you I don't hold it against them because I don't understand what you're doing myself. However, I have not said I don't think you're a tracker. I think it's possible, it's just that your motives for revealing it have been hard for me to understand, or I just don't agree with them. In any case, if you are tracker, I don't think it will change any of my opinions. I'm voting for imgay.

Fast Luck
Feb 2, 1988

Chic Trombone posted:

Maybe it's because I've read it all in one go, but ANarc doesn't feel like she's scrambling to me. She's been consistent about not believing taste and saying she has a reason not to trust taste basically all game day
This. I just got home from work and the thread is moving really fast right now, but when Taste claimed second tracker and Narc immediately and forcefully said "You're lying" I literally said to myself "holy poo poo is Narc another tracker??" Didn't say it in the thread because I didn't want to out her, but this does not seem like something she's pulling out her rear end to me.

Fast Luck
Feb 2, 1988

Tremendous Taste posted:

You won't.

If you want, I'll do the quit mafia promise with you
Stop toxxing bro.

Fast Luck
Feb 2, 1988

##vote Taste

Fast Luck
Feb 2, 1988

Tremendous Taste posted:

I don't think she's a stupid player, and frankly I'd say believing her story requires you to do so
She did not vote imgay on D2.

:c: The Current Day 2 Votecount :c:

Tremendous Taste (5): Met, DaisyDanger, Allen Wren, -Allen Wren, AnonymousNarcotics, Pinterest Mom, -Pinterest Mom, garthoneeye, Fast Luck
AnonymousNarcotics (4): Tremendous Taste, -Tremendous Taste, garthoneeye, Tremendous Taste, Eight Dollars, Pinterest Mom, Propaganda Machine, -garthoneeye
Propaganda Machine (1): imgay
TMMadman (1): Tremendous Taste, -Tremendous Taste, EXAKT Science
EXAKT Science (0): Pinterest Mom, -Pinterest Mom
imgay (0): DaisyDanger, Fast Luck, garthoneeye, -DaisyDanger, -garthoneeye, -Fast Luck
Met (0): Pinterest Mom, Tremendous Taste, -Tremendous Taste, Tremendous Taste, -Tremendous Taste, -Pinterest Mom
Pinterest Mom (0): TMMadman, Met, -Met, -TMMadman
Eight Dollars (0): Pinterest Mom, -Pinterest Mom
DaisyDanger (0): EXAKT Science, -EXAKT Science
Allen Wren (0): Pinterest Mom, -Pinterest Mom

Not Voting (4): Allen Wren, Chic Trombone, HiipFire, TMMadman

:h: With 15 players alive, it takes 8 votes to be executed.
:d: The current deadline is July 02nd, 2015 at 10 p.m. EDT -- that's in about 1 hour, 24 minutes.

Fast Luck
Feb 2, 1988

Tremendous Taste posted:

Oh, I assumed the part where she talked about lynching him today contained a vote
She said she stood by her argument that he is not helpful to town. And that argument does have merit. We know he burned her in a couple previous games just for the hell of it. I like imgay and think he's funny, but also in Awful Survivor he didn't even try to win, he just tried to advance AnAnonymousIdiot for his own amusement. So yeah you can't really count on him to play to win.

Fast Luck
Feb 2, 1988

Tremendous Taste posted:

If you're arguing taking imgay out knowing that he's town you should not be playing mafia on these forums

beef is one thing but
tracking him nowhere does not confirm him town.

Fast Luck
Feb 2, 1988

I think Taste and PMom are both scum. PMom has been backing up taste all game, right? Then right when narc starts indicating she can prove Taste is lying...

AnonymousNarcotics posted:

Well yeah that's exactly how I know taste is lying. Did people think I was pulling it out of my rear end? Why would I have been so drat sure that he's lying if I had nothing to back it up.

Pinterest Mom posted:

i think taste is an sk

distancing.

Fast Luck
Feb 2, 1988

Tremendous Taste posted:

Chic/Fluck, what could I do to get you to switch, aside from volunteer to vote myself tomorrow if she doesn't flip scum?
I won't be switching unless something new happens. There's just a lot of stuff piling up in my mind.

The second Narc started saying you had to be lying, I was wondering if she was a tracker. You and Pmom have been in sync all game but when you claimed tracker he posted "what." I feel that's because he didn't know you were going to do that. However, he quickly came around and supported your claim. You already know I didn't think your reasons for claiming made sense. I think you just decided to pull a big move and claim tracker and that's why it didn't make sense. I also think all the stuff you're saying about Narc and her opinions about imgay are wrong. Finally, Narc claimed she tracked imgay and he went nowhere, and he confirmed, which gives her claim priority over yours for me. I don't think this game would have 3 trackers.

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Fast Luck
Feb 2, 1988

Pinterest Mom posted:

if I were scumbuds with taste i'd yell at him for claiming in fb chat, not in thread
Well my vote on him doesn't rely on you both being scum. I think he's scum with you or on his own because of Narc's counterclaim and because I haven't been buying the reasoning taste has been giving all day.

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