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Elector_Nerdlingen posted:Thanks! It was Copperhead County, but Ruralpunk sounds like extremely my poo poo. Last I heard Cassandra Khaw was stepping away from game design but the beta Ruralpunk rules seem fairly playable. Might want to download them just in case the site dies, though.
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Jul 16, 2020 20:33
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FrozenGoldfishGod posted:So I've never actually understood what the hell the Skinner is supposed to actually be - like, what post-apocalyptic archetype do they actually represent? What's their niche in the genre? I always thought that they represented the McGuffin. They were the thing that others wanted, and because of that, they have power to use it.
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Jul 16, 2020 20:56
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FrozenGoldfishGod posted:So I've never actually understood what the hell the Skinner is supposed to actually be - like, what post-apocalyptic archetype do they actually represent? What's their niche in the genre? AW classes are, amusingly, more based on Firefly than Mad Max. Skinner is Inara. (Hardholder and Chopper are the two that don't fit in this method but they're not exactly hard to understand).
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Jul 16, 2020 21:02
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Tulip posted:AW classes are, amusingly, more based on Firefly than Mad Max. Skinner is Inara. Hardholder is either Badger or Nishka, depending on the tone of the game.
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Jul 16, 2020 21:04
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FrozenGoldfishGod posted:So I've never actually understood what the hell the Skinner is supposed to actually be - like, what post-apocalyptic archetype do they actually represent? What's their niche in the genre? Skinners bring bring beauty and joy to the people in Apocalypse World. Think of how many people deal with lovely times by listening to music or watching a show they love. The Skinner is able to deliver that, which gives them great social power.
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Jul 16, 2020 21:15
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FrozenGoldfishGod posted:So I've never actually understood what the hell the Skinner is supposed to actually be - like, what post-apocalyptic archetype do they actually represent? What's their niche in the genre? All of the AW playbooks have something to give or something to protect. The Gunlugger has violence to give; the Hardholder has a hardhold to protect. The Skinner has something to give that is a real scarcity in AW. Beauty. It might not be at the basis of the pyramid of needs, but that doesn't mean that people don't want it.
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Jul 16, 2020 21:32
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paradoxGentleman posted:All of the AW playbooks have something to give or something to protect. The Gunlugger has violence to give; the Hardholder has a hardhold to protect. I would go so far as to say that the Skinner is the Bakers' thesis that beauty and art are part of the pyramid of needs. "If I can't dance I don't want to be in your revolution" - Emma Goldman.
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Jul 16, 2020 22:27
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admanb posted:I would go so far as to say that the Skinner is the Bakers' thesis that beauty and art are part of the pyramid of needs. Yeah, I think this is a very pointed choice by the Bakers about the tone of the AW setting, as also seen in the bit of fluff in the Chopper playbook about there being plenty of bullets and gasoline to go around. Things that create violence and ugliness (weapons, ammo, war rigs and their fuel) are usually plentiful; things that make life tenable and bearable (plentiful clean water, secure shelter, food, entertainment, beauty) are scarce, and hence valuable. You're not fighting over bullets; you're fighting over a chance to do anything more than survive another day.
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Jul 16, 2020 23:40
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Similarly, mechanically, shooting people is easy. Harm is governed by the rule "if you do it, do it." You can create as much misery and chaos in the world as you want and it won't even stand out. The game challenges you to make a different choice: to seize the things that you need, to go aggro in defense of that which you hold dear.
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Jul 17, 2020 00:33
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I had a player manage to take down an apprentice Jedi* and steal his lightsaber in my gonzo space game. I made it clear that it's not a weapon meant to be used by those without training. What are some consequences for using it poorly that I could pop into a custom move? Losing a limb or a few fingers was the first obvious thing that came to me, but I know there should be more. *In-game these are Bindu Knights and the lightsaber is a 'lightbringer' but for clarity I used the terms that would be easily recognized.
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Jul 25, 2020 20:01
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Quote posted:I had a player manage to take down an apprentice Jedi* and steal his lightsaber in my gonzo space game. I made it clear that it's not a weapon meant to be used by those without training. What are some consequences for using it poorly that I could pop into a custom move? Losing a limb or a few fingers was the first obvious thing that came to me, but I know there should be more. I have no experience playing this game at all so please take all of the above with a lot of salt granules.
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Jul 25, 2020 20:23
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Quote posted:I had a player manage to take down an apprentice Jedi* and steal his lightsaber in my gonzo space game. I made it clear that it's not a weapon meant to be used by those without training. What are some consequences for using it poorly that I could pop into a custom move? Losing a limb or a few fingers was the first obvious thing that came to me, but I know there should be more.
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Jul 27, 2020 15:05
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Halloween Jack posted:Destroying the environment in a way that disadvantages them and not the enemy. (Actually hacking your own limbs off wouldn't be in the spirit of Star Wars.) I agree but this ain't Star Wars and you can get a new limb for enough Credits.
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Jul 27, 2020 15:14
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In regards to "what archetype is this character channeling" with Apocalypse World, it's worth remembering that AW was published a decade ago, and in development for some time before that. It has heavy influence from surrealist punk post-apocalyptic British comics like Tank Girl (clearly a major inspiration for the battlebabe), Strontium Dog, and the later Judge Dredd stories, plus some of the weirder scifi from the 70s. That stuff has basically dropped completely out of the post-apocalyptic canon as far as I can tell, which is surprising because it was really central for a while. As a result some of the concepts in AW seem out of place in a genre where even the more out there works have largely dropped that maximalist kitchen-sink of weirdness world building.
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Jul 27, 2020 17:01
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Quote posted:I had a player manage to take down an apprentice Jedi* and steal his lightsaber in my gonzo space game. I made it clear that it's not a weapon meant to be used by those without training. What are some consequences for using it poorly that I could pop into a custom move? Losing a limb or a few fingers was the first obvious thing that came to me, but I know there should be more. Off-hand, it shouldn't be too hard to make something like quote:When you wield a lightbringer under pressure, roll 2d6+stat. On a 7+, pick one option from the following list: Then you can just save accidentally cutting off your own limbs for any 6-s rolled when that would fit what's going on.
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Jul 27, 2020 17:08
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Comrade Gorbash posted:In regards to "what archetype is this character channeling" with Apocalypse World, it's worth remembering that AW was published a decade ago, and in development for some time before that. It has heavy influence from surrealist punk post-apocalyptic British comics like Tank Girl (clearly a major inspiration for the battlebabe), Strontium Dog, and the later Judge Dredd stories, plus some of the weirder scifi from the 70s. Burned Over, the reimagining of AW in a more PG-13 way has a couple new archetypes in it, including "person who has many children and is willing to do anything to protect them" and "living weapon equipped with hyper advanced technology". I don't know if they are any closer to what post-apocalyptic fiction is like now though. Is there any good modern post-apocalyptic fiction that I should absolutely should check out?
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Jul 27, 2020 19:16
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paradoxGentleman posted:Is there any good modern post-apocalyptic fiction that I should absolutely should check out? Have you watched Fury Road?
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Jul 27, 2020 22:22
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BlackIronHeart posted:Have you watched Fury Road? I have not. I keep hearing it's fantastic but so much of it has filtered to me with culutural osmosis that I don't know if I'd even enjoy it at this point, like Star Wars.
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Jul 28, 2020 12:03
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paradoxGentleman posted:I have not. I keep hearing it's fantastic but so much of it has filtered to me with culutural osmosis that I don't know if I'd even enjoy it at this point, like Star Wars. You absolutely will. The plot is almost incidental, knowing where it goes doesn’t make the production design less cool or the stunt sequences less breathtaking.
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Jul 28, 2020 13:07
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paradoxGentleman posted:Is there any good modern post-apocalyptic fiction that I should absolutely should check out? Mike Carey’s The Book of Koli, but it is the first of a trilogy and I didn’t find the conclusion entirely satisfying in and of itself.
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Jul 28, 2020 16:35
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Girl with all the gifts is a pretty good, too.
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Jul 29, 2020 01:08
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Children of Men.
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Jul 29, 2020 04:42
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paradoxGentleman posted:I have not. I keep hearing it's fantastic but so much of it has filtered to me with culutural osmosis that I don't know if I'd even enjoy it at this point, like Star Wars. watch it with as much sound and fury as possible. the first time I saw it I had just sprained my ankle to the just shy of breaking poitnt so I hobbled intot he thearer with my girlfriend and had one of the happiest experiences of my life like seriously the amount of joy I felt when they introed i wanna say the third major chase scene of the movie? so good.
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Jul 29, 2020 04:51
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paradoxGentleman posted:I have not. I keep hearing it's fantastic but so much of it has filtered to me with culutural osmosis that I don't know if I'd even enjoy it at this point, like Star Wars. Yeah, you’ll enjoy it. It is crafted incredibly, and is one of the most viscerally engaging action movies you’ll see.
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Jul 29, 2020 04:53
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Benagain posted:watch it with as much sound and fury as possible. This. Do this.
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Jul 29, 2020 04:56
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Fury Road has stuck with me so strongly for so long. I haven't seen it since it was in theater and it's still just so fresh.
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Jul 29, 2020 08:52
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Going to go out on a limb and describe it as a perfect movie.
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Jul 29, 2020 17:10
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It was nominated for Best Director and Best Picture not because it was a big hit, but because it really was that good. Miller got robbed.
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Jul 29, 2020 23:29
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There is a kind of vigor in a lot of those old post-apocalypse films which seemed to kind of turn into tired, stubbly dad energy. Whether this is because they were marketing to the same people or if it was just Americans getting clannish after 9/11 I cannot say.
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Jul 30, 2020 00:30
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It's been a while since I played Apocalypse World (1E about 6 years ago) and I've played a little Dungeon World. I'm planning to run a campaign in one or the other starting next month. As I'm diving back in and also caught up on about 50 pages of this thread, I'm having a lot of thoughts and ideas and I think I'll work on some of them while running this game. I think I'll cover them in different posts as the ideas become firm. First, I have an idea for a really fun Colony World type hack; emulating shows like the 100, Outcasts, Terra Nova, Deep Space 9, Earth 2, parts of the Expanse or parts of Battle Star Galactica etc. Most of the playbooks could be loosely based off of the ones in AW. I've found ideas other shared online, but I'm not really thrilled with them. The main goal of a hack should be to capture a particular theme and mood, and a more in-depth hack seems to be needed. To that end I'm thinking: 1. Reinforce the isolation and scarcity of the colony with a countdown clock for its overall condition, or have clocks for several facets of its condition (supplies, infrastructure, population, etc). If the/a clock gets wiped out then the colony collapses. 2. Also have some sort of colony goal, agreed to by the players, and a clock to its completion. It might be something like: establish the colony is sustainable, or open diplomatic relations with alien life, or repair the ship so we can get home. This could also be tracked with one or more clocks. 3. I want there to be an economy of loyalties, secrets and favors. All the examples I could think of make use of this to some degree. Hx seems like a poor fit. But something like Strings from Monster Hearts (I've only read a little about this) might be more appropriate. A mechanic that could tie this to PCs, NPCs and threats would be ideal. Or maybe replace the special move from each playbook with something tied to this concept. Maybe each player just picks from a list of options and each gives a special move? They could even be swap-able as the circumstances change. Any thoughts or guidance additional sources I should check out are much appreciated.
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Aug 23, 2020 21:55
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CPA Hell posted:3. I want there to be an economy of loyalties, secrets and favors. All the examples I could think of make use of this to some degree. Hx seems like a poor fit. But something like Strings from Monster Hearts (I've only read a little about this) might be more appropriate. A mechanic that could tie this to PCs, NPCs and threats would be ideal. Or maybe replace the special move from each playbook with something tied to this concept. Maybe each player just picks from a list of options and each gives a special move? They could even be swap-able as the circumstances change. Have you looked at Debts from Urban Shadows? It's a big part of the game, and there's even a move for the consequences of avoiding repaying a Debt when someone calls it in.
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Aug 23, 2020 22:10
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Heliotrope posted:Have you looked at Debts from Urban Shadows? It's a big part of the game, and there's even a move for the consequences of avoiding repaying a Debt when someone calls it in. I read some on this, and I like it at least for the ties to the threats and NPCs. I think trading back-and-forth between the PCs might be a little too adversarial, and should maybe use more of a cost/reward that follows the fiction in those cases.
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Aug 24, 2020 01:28
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Nessus posted:There is a kind of vigor in a lot of those old post-apocalypse films which seemed to kind of turn into tired, stubbly dad energy. Whether this is because they were marketing to the same people or if it was just Americans getting clannish after 9/11 I cannot say. Here's an example I love to use: In Castellari's masterpiece Bronx Warriors 2: Escape from the Bronx, there's a scene where cops murder a journalist and plant a gun on her. Then the heroes blow the cops away. The cops are clearly the bad guys. For comparison, the Hunger Games movies are full of scenes where the heroes kill military police, but they're faceless stormtroopers in white armor who don't look anything like contemporary police officers or soldiers. It's like it's designed so that conservatives can watch these movies and go "Oh, Panem is the neo-USSR that Rush Limbaugh warned me about" and liberals can go "Panem is Trump." And of course, a lot of post-apoc movies since 2000 are zombie movies. Even when there's obvious satire on consumerism, conservatism, militarism, etc. as in Snyder's remake of Dawn of the Dead, many people choose not to see it. Instead they focus on the consumer aspects of a zombie apocalypse--you know that axe-machete thing that Glen carries in The Walking Dead? You can buy it at Target!
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Aug 25, 2020 17:09
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Halloween Jack posted:It's because post-apoc movies from the 70s and 80s had to come to grips with real political issues, even if they were clumsy and confused. Most post-apoc movies of the past 20 years seem to try their damndest to depoliticize the idea of civilization ending because of a manmade crisis. It does somewhat matter that "the apocalypse" has moved from a direct theme to a self-recursive media reference. "The apocalypse" is not just a question of "how the world ends" or "where are we headed" but also an established set of tropes and conventions, with its own aesthetic discourse existing separately or even in opposition to, well, the apocalypse. AW is absolutely a part of this - like many apocalypse fictions it just kind of invokes The Road Warrior/Tank Girl 's general aesthetic but it's just kind of there because it's what you expect from apocalypse fiction. You mention zombie stuff and that's where I think it's the most overt - Zombieland isn't really saying anything with its zombies other than "zombies are a popular thing right, can we make them funny?" I don't think this is necessarily bad but it does mean you can't take for granted that the decision to do x or y creative decision was for any reason other than "will increase appeal with this demographic slice."
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Aug 25, 2020 17:51
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I wonder if the fact that the end of civilization as we know it feels very, very close to us has changed how we perceive those stories, too.
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Aug 26, 2020 14:34
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paradoxGentleman posted:I wonder if the fact that the end of civilization as we know it feels very, very close to us has changed how we perceive those stories, too. I think so. The "optimistic apocalypse" like TTGL seems to be a recent subgenre and an inevitable result of 'oh poo poo this is really happening' and thus putting more thought into 'well now what.'
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Aug 26, 2020 14:43
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paradoxGentleman posted:I wonder if the fact that the end of civilization as we know it feels very, very close to us has changed how we perceive those stories, too. Every generation feels that it is the last one before the oncoming apocalypse, even back in like the Roman empire people were bemoaning the imminent collapse of civilisation. In any case, the Mad Max aesthetic which Apocalypse World is directly inspired by comes from the early 80s peak of Cold War MAD when the fear of nuclear annihilation was just a constant fact of life.
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Aug 26, 2020 15:07
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Oh we aren't the last but we don't seem far off from it
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Aug 26, 2020 21:07
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Fury Road is an absolute master craft of a movie and is arguably the finest piece of action cinema ever made. It also has a dude shredding his way across the desert on a motorized amp stack shooting fire out of his electric guitar.
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Aug 26, 2020 21:10
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Xand_Man posted:Fury Road is an absolute master craft of a movie and is arguably the finest piece of action cinema ever made. You say that like the latter isn't a key component of the former.
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Aug 26, 2020 21:48
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