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Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.

Clapping Larry

Zurui posted:

Aid or Interfere, Spend Favor, Die

That's six basic moves and three auxiliary moves that cover everything you can do up there and it's just off the top of my head.

Edit: I just don't understand how the Conversation works with this game. "I try to get the bomb out of her chest." "It sounds like you're...trying to get the bomb out of someone?"

Well, Cut The Bomb Out Of Someone is a setting/location specific move, similarly to how when the front demanded it you'd write a move specifically for trying to escape from Mocram's restraints, because Mocram might not be all there but brother can he tie people up.

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Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.

Clapping Larry

Covok posted:

I'm curious what people think of Worlds In Peril.

If Monsterhearts is about getting and spending Strings in the pursuit of teen drama, Worlds in Peril is about getting and burning Bonds in the pursuit of superhuman power (for whatever reason).

The advancement system focuses mostly on the things that happen to you to unlock new Drives and new facets of your Drive, and so you kind of play to open that up. And possibly get yourself into dangerous situations so your power can kick into overdrive, save your rear end, and give you an upgrade.

It's really a game that almost forces you to pursue failure and loss to do anything great, and if you like that kind of risky, striving superhero story you can play it out pretty well.

The thing is, there are pretty much no mechanics for what your powers are or how they work, which I think given the available variety is a pretty good decision. You write down the things that are:

Simple: the basic stuff. Use my ring to give me simple flight. Use my ring to give me simple ballistic armor. Use my ring to move, at a distance, anything a normal human can carry.
Difficult: the stuff you can do as long as you have time and care, and guess what you don't usually have when you need to use your powers! Use my ring to create objects with simple mechanics or properties - a spring, a fireproof blanket, a dense wall. Use my ring to block painful extreme of temperature or the force of a car crash. Use my ring to move a truck.
Borderline: what you can do when the situation really demands it, but it takes a lot out of you. Use my ring to replicate military hardware including the ordnance: a tank, a bomber. Use my ring to project a forcefield to protect dozens of people. Use my ring to move a building.
Limits of the Possible: the most you can think of, the most you can do. Use my ring to create a squadron's worth of autonomous hardware that can follow simple commands. Use my ring to protect everyone in a city block. Use my ring to move a force of nature: a tide, a wind, a continental plate (mostly to hold that one still).
Impossible: things you can't do. Use my ring to create sapient life. Use my ring to move a planet.

Each separate concept is its own power, and you start with more or less depending on how street-level you are (but the more street-level characters also start with more Bonds). And when you're trying to expand your powers, you decide where it fits in on that spectrum and roll unmodified. You add it to your profile on a 10+ but can at least do it (at the cost of some strain) on a 7-9.

Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.

Clapping Larry

Fenarisk posted:

Edit: Actually, I'd love to figure out an additional dice mechanic that adds threats and advantages on top of the standard 2d6+stat that PBtA games use, hearing it used in the one-shot spinoff Campaign that runs Edge of the Empire makes for some awesome narrative additions where even if you succeed there's a threat sometimes, and even when you fail there's some advantages. I know some games are using advantage and disadvantage in place on ongoing +/- (roll 3d6, take highest 2 for advantage and lowest 2 for disadvantage), but maybe different colored dice as the 3rd d6 could accomplish this instead.

Advantage and disadvantage, and if you want, pick one additional mechanic, do not mix because it'll get really confusing:

- if you wind up with doubles after dropping lowest/highest, something special happens
- if any two dice match, something special happens
- always roll a third die of a different color, ignoring it on neutral rolls. If it matches one of the other dice, something special happens

Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.

Clapping Larry
So I remember asking after it a while back, but the original dropbox link to "i am killbot" has gone dead. I ran it at Origins, so I'd like to a) credit the author in future discussions, if any, and b) share the character sheet.

Glazius fucked around with this message at 20:02 on Jun 24, 2016

Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.

Clapping Larry

Antivehicular posted:

Ugh. Bennie-points-as-XP mechanics suck anyway, but actually tying the advancement of the plot to how many of them your players spend for bennies (which they won't, and probably shouldn't, be doing in any great quantity) is a notable wrong step. I can see "the plot doesn't advance until the characters have had X cool bennie-point moments" maybe being okay, but in that case, don't make the cool-moment currency hoardable.

So you take a page from Burning Wheel and tie advancement to how much you spend? This means the PCs and the plot advance in rough correlation to one another, and distinguishes Fortune as an extra floaty booster that doesn't make anyone stronger.

I haven't read the system myself, but would that break anything?

Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.

Clapping Larry

Evil Mastermind posted:

So...

...let's say I'm thinking about writing a new version of the Dungeon World Guide, designed to cover PbtA in general as opposed to just DW.

Assuming I get off my rear end and finish this no promises at all I am a lazy gently caress, what kinds of things do people feel should be included/expanded on this time around? What was missing that would have helped ages ago? What's some non-DW-specific stuff that should be discussed?

Hmm. Sex moves and the X card, player being antagonistic to player, ways to keep non-fight-scene conflicts like chases or charged social situations dynamic?

Beyond that you'd have to go game by game, hack by hack. Maybe an introduction to the genre for non-genre fans?

Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.

Clapping Larry

Halloween Jack posted:

The problem I had approaching DW is that I would have to do a lot of rewriting to suit the races and alignment in my campaign setting. Not a big deal for experienced PbtA players, but if you're trying to sell a D&D group on trying a fundamentally different game...

anyway.

I was very preoccupied with the issue of bringing fists to a gunfight in AW, and how the Single Combat move doesn't model being able to slug someone who pulls a gun on you, which happens a lot in old action movies. I decided that go aggro or get in someone's face (Spirit of 77) covers casual violence just fine.

The new character sheets have blanks to write your own alignment triggers and race moves in. Still doesn't stop having to come up with them in the first place, but.

When you say "being able to slug someone who pulls a gun on you", I'd say Go Aggro covers using threats of violence to stop someone from pulling a gun and Overwatch is for not making threats but decking someone who tries to pull a gun on you anyway.

Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.

Clapping Larry

spectralent posted:

Masks seems like a really bad game for MHA for the simple reason that the central adult/child relationships are while not flawless, incredibly positive. Like, Deku is probably a Legacy in game terms and the assumption that Legacies are about having the past trying to force itself on the shape of the future aren't really appropriate to All Might's nurturing and even fanboyish relationship with Deku.

Well, one of the "members of the Legacy" you can note is a former foe who's still at large. Regardless of what the actual person of All Might is doing to "force itself on the shape of the future", the idea of All Might is driving a hell of a lot.

Also Deku completely took "The Legacy Matters" and is gladly shorting out his own labels for potential and +1 forward.

Masks is much more about HeroAca than it is about the world of HeroAca - one of the primary mechanics of the game is that your stats are drastically in flux based on your own resolve and what the people you respect or fear tell you that you are. As part of advancing through the game you lock down parts of your identity and can eventually "retire" to being an established hero.

So if you wanted to run an American counterpart to HeroAca, full of sullen and fractionally-less-sullen teens, Masks is great. If you're actually doing established heroes, you might want to look at Worlds In Peril, though it is as said a bit rough around the edges.

Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.

Clapping Larry

Demon_Corsair posted:

Ran my first night of dungeon world in a long time and after playing a bunch of blades, a lot of it felt super clunky.

Has there been a more "modern" takes on fantasy that have come out lately?

You could try Fellowship. Finish Them and Threat to the World will bring to mind certain things about clocks and skilled opposition from Blades.

Defy Danger could learn a little from position and effect in practice, too.

Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.

Clapping Larry

OscarDiggs posted:

Odd question to just pop in with, but here we go.

I was reading the Dugron World thread and noticed in the OP that there are in fact released adventures.

My question, how does that work with PbtA? Since its player driven, as soon as the players decide they don't want to follow the adventure anymore, it's out the window. Is Dungeon World a fundamentally different beast then other PbtA or am I missing something obvious?

Well, yes. You're missing that if Wisher rants in the public square about an ominous pink wave and the PCs collectively say "lol gently caress that we're gonna smuggle yam bars" the ominous pink wave doesn't somehow stop coming.

It's the same way with adventures. They're basically a bunch of predrawn threats and notes and relevant moves. Sure, the PCs are free to bug out. They just have to live with the consequences.

Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.

Clapping Larry

Basic Chunnel posted:

Here’s a dumb question: I’m mocking up a first draft of a system using the Monsterhearts guy’s simple template. In it he has you create character archetypes with short phrases summating what they do.

My question is about character moves. Iirc from Apocalypse World, you’re given a list of moves to choose from as a player, but the template has players creating three of their own moves from the phrases. Are these just two different approaches to the material or am I missing something? The former puts more work on the designer (me) but seems less messy.

Simple World is intended to be built out collaboratively in play.

If you don't want to do that, don't do that.

Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.

Clapping Larry

Pollyanna posted:

Isn’t the entire point to use the GM moves when the players look to you to see what happens as well as to follow the fiction? That means you have to somehow twist “this box is just empty, man” directly into Announce Future Badness or Trade Harm or something. Does that mean I get free reign to say “there’s nothing here cause it’s loving uninteresting, hey check out this goblin about to shank you”? And if so, isn’t that railroading?

"Something else got here first" would fall under the purview of Reveal An Unwelcome Truth. Then people can be all "poo poo, let's track it" or whatever.

"You looted the decoy sarcophagus" also counts, because now they've got to go back to the tomb and find the real one without the element of surprise.

Glazius fucked around with this message at 16:01 on Sep 20, 2018

Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.

Clapping Larry

Pollyanna posted:

One of my players had to skip last session due to work being insane, so I was wondering what the best way to bring them up to speed and involve them was. That's what love letters are for, right? Is the intent to just summarize the session they missed and update their character/give them some stuff to roll for? I'm not really sure what I'm supposed to do for them.

A loveletter is designed to sum up what a character was doing in the meantime.

What were they doing in the meantime?

Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.

Clapping Larry

Pollyanna posted:

Am I asking them that question, or answering it for them?

This makes it seem like the latter. Given that in this particular case the character was "around" but not active in the party (outside of a "help me bust down this gate" thing), I think I have an idea for what they could have been doing.

Yeah, you're assuming certain offscreen activities so you can give them a reasonable set of risks and benefits to choose between. If you don't feel like you know the character well enough yet, ask the player if you can?

Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.

Clapping Larry

Heliotrope posted:

I'm working on my threat map after finishing a first session of AW and I'm wondering what's a good number of threats with countdowns to have at one time? I've got 4 PCs, one dropped but was replaced by a Driver so I'm trying to have some threats affecting the world outside the town the rest of the PCs are at, as well as the threats inside the town. I have a bunch of ideas and having a lot of things to deal with and trying to prioritize what to handle first is a good source of tension, but how many is too many?

If you can close your eyes and still remember them all, you don't have too many.

Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.

Clapping Larry

Pollyanna posted:

I know that a massive chunk of this is that GMing while sleep deprived and braindead from work is a bad idea, so I’m wondering if PbtA is just not a good fit for the environment/situation we’re in after a long workday. Or am I just doing it wrong?

Yes, GMing is demanding, PbtA more so than most in the moment. Prep can help. Practice when you're not exhausted can also help. But neither of those things work miracles.

Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.

Clapping Larry

Pollyanna posted:

Anyone ever try running old (and new) D&D modules in a PbtA game? Given what they do, it sounds like you could only ever do that in Dungeon World, and I don’t know if the MC rules would conflict with the modules somehow.

It's more that D&D modules use D&D logic, and Dungeon World is the hack for doing D&D logic? (Fellowship is more for LotR logic, I think.)

Using a module for inspiration is a great idea, as long as:

- it can be rewritten as a front with a collection of dangers and countdowns to pressure the PCs forward
- whatever keyed maps exist are understood not as the dungeon frozen in time until it stops being occluded from the PCs, but the starting state of the dungeon, which will respond to the PCs

Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.

Clapping Larry

hyphz posted:

In the week I asked on the PbtA reddit what would happen if an Act Under Pressure move was applied with a PC taking an action that - unknown to them - wouldn’t actually help with the pressure, and would actually make it worse.

The answer was that Act Under Pressure wouldn’t trigger if the entire narrative - not just the PCs action - didn’t fit the description. Which makes sense but makes the move names a bit confusing. Like, you can investigate to find out the answer to a question that’s not on the investigation list, but it’s not the Investigate A Mystery move if you do, even though you’re investigating a mystery.

What, like they go grab a fire extinguisher but somebody filled it with gasoline?

Assuming it's in-theme with the monster's schtick it's probably still be Act Under Pressure, but to take action in that horrid pit-of-the-stomach moment to stop yourself from making things worse.

Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.

Clapping Larry

hyphz posted:

The example I thought of was barricading a door to prevent the Monster getting in (which is one of the examples of that move in MotW), but with the PCs being unaware that the monster can pass through walls. The PCs still can't, so making the barricade secure is just nailing their own coffin shut. I did consider the same as the above - that if the monster passing through walls hadn't been previously introduced then the player rolling a success on barricading the door as AoF would mean that now the monster doesn't have that ability after all - but it does seem that the monster's capabilities are supposed to be further pre-planned.

Heck, I probably wouldn't even change what they were rolling. You start getting the barricade going and then surprise! Monster face phasing through the door. This was actually an Act Under Pressure to see if you could tear down the barricade and still get away from the monster. Hope you didn't get a 7-9!

Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.

Clapping Larry

Vulpes Vulpes posted:

Yikes, 2-Armor in Urban Shadows sure is a different beast than 2-Armor in Dungeon World (which I knew, I've just been running DW for a long time).

Yeah, Dungeon World gives you the super wrong impression about the role of violence and harm in similar games, because the D&D pastiche's treatment of violence and harm is very disjoint from reality.

Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.

Clapping Larry

Golden Bee posted:

Buy Spirit of 77, they explain absolutely everything with hilarious examples.

Can someone explain why helping/hindering need to be rolled after? It’s counterintuitive...But otherwise you get the effect where someone rolls 10+ to help you succeed and you still fail...Or tries to hinder you after there’s no way they could’ve succeeded.

I know why I just can’t articulate it well.

???

It's actually the opposite? OG help/hinder was always before the roll, but don't be a nit about it since interrupts are tough to adjudicate perfectly fairly?

"I'll take a risk to help this person" and "I'll take a risk to hurt this person" are things you decide before the outcome is certain, and they're notable because you can do them when the spotlight's not on you. The GM can say any number of things before the spotlight gets to you, so if someone's doing something you want to see succeed, like sprinting across the floor of some secret South American bunker to unplug the Hitler mainframe, helping them is how you give that thing the best chance to get done.

Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.

Clapping Larry

spectralent posted:

I feel like the biggest issue with Defy Danger isn't that it's an easy safety net for the player but it's such for the GM. Literally everything you could possibly do is encapsulated under Defy Danger somewhere.

Yeah, it really needed some good usage talk. DW does in general, but Defy Danger especially. You see people defaulting to bad calls like "Fightgar attacks five goblins! Now Fightgar rolls Defy Danger three times to dodge each remaining goblin!" when Hack And Slash already wrapped up all the combat danger inside itself.

Defy Danger (and, honestly, the '77 equivalent of it) at least tries to communicate that all manner of weird poo poo will happen to you but dealing with it ain't no thang. Like, you walk down the dungeon stairs and see a fishman, so you cast magic missile at it, but it raises a hand, the darts freeze in the air, its third eye opens and it screams WIZARD BATTLE! and suddenly your BRAIN is playing tug of war with the OCEAN or some poo poo. But it's no big. Just Defy Danger and you're fine.

Now that Blades exists, stapling controlled/risky/desperate onto various stats and scenarios people try to use with Defy Danger seems like just enough extra lean.

Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.

Clapping Larry

Arivia posted:

I've run Dungeon World a bit, which I hated because I love D&D and the PbtA mindset didn't work for how I run my dungeon crawls and poo poo. (It was like a peanut butter and garlic sandwich.) I've played Monsterhearts a bit. I know I have a lot of different learning to do, but I'm excited to try a very different rhythm and focus than what I usually do.

E: how are the fan playbooks for MotW? I know one of my players is big into crazy monsters, he might like the Summoned or the Mad Scientist.

You'll need to bring them up to second ed standards if you're running second ed (shouldn't be hard, there's a little epilogue chapter explaining the changes). The Summoned and the Mad Scientist are maybe the only two alternatives I'd consider? Nothing else really has that "here's what I do that other playbooks can't" feel to it. (Even then, The Summoned isn't that far off from The Chosen, though I like the "hit someone with a bus" move it brings to the table, and the Mad Scientist is not so far off from a Spellslinger or an Expert, but I can see all of them with their own niche just the same.)

Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.

Clapping Larry

Dawgstar posted:

So I've hit on the hook for my Masks game. Drawing from the dimly remembered comics Noble Causes and Dynamo 5, the gimmick is everybody will be the newest generation of a superhero family. Do any playbooks leap out at people as being untenable for such a thing?

The only one that immediately doesn't seem to work is the Janus... but now that I think about that, as long as it's not their family they're hiding from (instead focusing on school and 'real' life) then that could work. The Outsider might be odd too, but... adoption? Foster kid?

Second-generation outsider back from being raised in the traditions of their people, or the super-family is itself the outsider faction and their powers were too unstable to let them grow up anywhere but the family science dome.

I could make a pretty good case that you'd play Astra First as an Outsider.

Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.

Clapping Larry

lessavini posted:

I see all sample villain moves are purely narrative in Masks. How about something like this:

"Checkmate is all brains even in a fight. When you engage him, roll Superior instead of Danger".

Is it fair game?

AW does this as one of its examples, but it's for shading Read a Person into +weird, which I think is already a stat replacer for some books? It's not meant to be a challenge, just an expression of character - they're so deep into the weird weeds that you can't read them like a normal person.

If Checkmate is meant to be a minor threat on par with the characters this might work? But if you want to actually have a masterplansman threaten the whole team, then you can't just hope a stat replacer or a -1 here and there will do the job, because somebody can just yell a lot, roll boxcars, and win anyway. Maybe instead:

"Checkmate has planned for this. He's planned for you. You can't directly engage him when he doesn't want to be - he'll always have some counter or escape, at least until he's (angry/insecure/strike out anything that doesn't apply).

"But if you can make his plan fall apart in front of him, that'll get him to successively mark (hopeless/angry/insecure/strike out anything that doesn't apply)."

That makes Superior the best option for "engaging" with Checkmate by sussing out the plan and how you can disrupt it, but it leaves the door open for e.g. Impulse Unleashing His Powers to search every warehouse in Gotham at super-speed instead of solving the Riddler's ten-part rebus of evil.

Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.

Clapping Larry
Hmm. Turning over hack ideas. Check me on this?

Hot (Drama, Suggestion, Rhetoric, Electrochemistry)
Cool (Volition, Endurance, Composure, Savoir Faire, Reaction Speed)
Hard (Authority, Physical Instrument, Pain Tolerance, Half-Light, Hand-Eye Coordination)
Sharp (Logic, Visual Calculus, Empathy, Perception, Interfacing)
Weird (Conceptualization, Encyclopedia, Inland Empire, Espirit de Corps, Shivers)

Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.

Clapping Larry

tanglewood1420 posted:

Any recommendations for a sci-fi/space opera system? I've looked at Scum & Villainy and it looks well thought out but a bit involved. I'm looking for something as streamlined as Dungeon World but with space ships and aliens, essentially.

Have you heard of Adventures on Dungeon Planet or Space Wurm vs. Moonicorn?

Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.

Clapping Larry

Elector_Nerdlingen posted:

e: Yeah, I was being weird in that post and now it's gone. Sorry about that, tired brain fart.

So instead I'll ask:

If I were writing a hack that had only 4 stats, would a move along the lines of AW's Act Under Fire or DW's Defy Danger make sense in an "roll the relevant stat" as opposed to "roll +thing"?

Stats are fast, cool, hard, loud, game's about armed high speed couriers and live social media. e: and is firmly tongue-in-cheek, if it wasn't obvious.

I think pointing all your stats at dealing with catastrophe is more fine in a game where you're constantly mainlining catastrophe, and you seem to be pointed that way, so cool.

One of my metrics for "what stat is this Defy Danger" is a list of upsides and downsides for each stat, framing what you're trying to accomplish and what could go wrong in terms of the stat before the roll happens. So, like, to roll +loud you say who you're showing off for and what you don't want them to see. It'd be nice to see that spelled out, in addition to examples of a worse outcome/hard bargain/ugly choice in your setting, assuming you preserve that language.

Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.

Clapping Larry

Poland Spring posted:

my group cancelled on me for the fourth time in a row so I'm just going to run my own drat game, which games here are well-put-together and easy to run? I've dabbled in monster of the week a bit and that's pretty fun

What kind of stuff do you like to watch or read? The more familiar you are with a genre's conventions, the easier it is for you to run a PbtA game based on them.

Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.

Clapping Larry

poly and open-minded posted:

I was thinking about running a game and using the PbtA system but was wondering if anyone had recommendations for one.

I wanted the game to start as your standard rag tag group a la the A-Team with specialties and unique styles. But the real secret is after the first adventure, they get stuck in a freezer and wake up in a dystopian future a la Fallout. I sort of would like that part to be a surprise.

Anyone have any recs, including other systems that are more fluid and storytelling and also easy to comprehend (a couple PCs are new to RPGs)

E: drat just saw the What System should I use megathread.

Posting this there too! Sorry!

This is a terrible premise to throw into a PbtA game for a couple of reasons, and both of those reasons boil down to "the rules will actively fight you".

The first reason is that pretty much every PbtA game throws into its GM advice something like "DO NOT pre-plan a storyline, and I'm not loving around". Going into a scene when you've already decided how it will end means heavy-handedly shutting down all of the player moves that give your players license to decide how it will end.

The second reason is that playbooks are all tied into the setting. If you sit down to make some A-Team characters using a game like Spirit of '77, they're going to have abilities that suit a '70s action setting. If you completely tear down the setting you're going to invalidate most of those abilities. In addition, a playbook gives a player a unique story role in the setting, but you're effectively giving everybody the same role in the new apocalypse: "that guy from The Time Before". Other playbooks in, say, Apocalypse World, assume you've got some tie to the setting and some capability of operating within it.

Heliotrope posted:

So I just remembered - someone once made a hack for AW that had the players coming out of a Vault like place. The idea was that the players would tell the MC what the world was like, and when they came out the MC would tell them how things had changed. ("That family farm you passed by? Now it's run by food merchant who uses slaves to take care of everything.") You had a stat line that you could assign, and the idea was that you'd gravitate towards a playbook that seemed to fit how your character started adjusting to life now. The MC was encouraged to have move things along to getting the PCs the stuff their playbook came with (a potential Battlebabe might find someone willing to make unusual weapons, a Hardholder might find the people of a nearby town think he's got some great ideas, etc.) and the complications that would come with it(what does the weapon maker want in return? Is the potential Hardholder going to kill the previous ruler or leave them alive and risk them retaliating?).

Anyone know what I'm talking about? I believe it was on the Story Games forum, but that got shut down last August I believe. I'd have suggestions for you, but I'd have to know what the rules were exactly. It's also be a way different take on AW, not the way most people should introduce it to their groups. But if you think it'll work, might be worth a shot. Worst case scenario, if you're all adults, is they'll say they're not really interested and you'll all do something else you enjoy instead.

I found Apocalypse: Emergence with a brief search. It looks like it fits.

A better way to run the campaign would just be to start out with the premise that you're unfrozen 70's action stars and you begin the game waking up and stepping outside, and then drift for a bit based on this before picking your destinies in the post-apocalypse.

Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.

Clapping Larry

Elector_Nerdlingen posted:

Yeah, it usually takes me about 10 seconds, and it goes "Gonna shoot his stupid face. Scrap, right? OK I'm gonna push myself, too. Ahahaha gently caress it's a four, what happened?"

For some other players in my group it's a constant several-minute nightmare of backtracking, forgetting how many dice they're up to, going "NO WAIT" and changing their minds, and finally getting to the end and realising their risk-averse narration has left them with 1 dice at no effect then trying to have retroactively been doing something else all along but not wanting to spend any of the resources that would let them do that.

Wow. My heart goes out to everyone involved there, them for suffering and you for proxy. It sounds like the system's a really bad match for their playstyles and they're having trouble adapting.

Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.

Clapping Larry

Demon_Corsair posted:

Has there been a new contender for a generic fantasy hack to replace dungeon world?

Dungeon World ate up a lot of oxygen around that. The Bakers were working through something called "Storming the Wizard's Tower" that they more or less set aside when Dungeon World showed up because of the degree to which it did what they were trying to do.

Stonetop looks extremely promising on that front; it hews extremely close to Dungeon World in places, maybe uncomfortably close depending on what you hate. It's much more focused around a type of gameplay that is developing and protecting the titular settlement, but honestly, AW hacks are better the more they're specifically about something, like Fellowship is good because it's about fighting the Overlord/biting the Horizon.

Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.

Clapping Larry

Pollyanna posted:

gently caress me, Stonetop looks pretty.

And yeah, the more I ran Dungeon World, the more I felt like the game just...wasn't that great. It feels unfocused and kind of halfway between PbtA and D&D while not exceling at either. I had to make all sorts of weird rulings and adjustments when I was running my campaign.

I'm totally stealing Struggle As One for general-purpose use and nobody can stop me.

Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.

Clapping Larry

Basic Chunnel posted:

No prob, I appreciate the insights. It is looking pretty good and straightforward so far, though it's not hard to beat Apocalypse World for legibility in explaining concepts.

If anybody's played BG2 and/or has a good grasp of the Forgotten Realms in 2E-3E D&D and has every other Saturday open, I could use players to test this out.

The only thing I'm really not liking so far is the emphasis on the very Tolkien-y "you speak for your people" bit. Characters should be heroes but fantasy "races" are weird enough without monolithing them. I assume the point is that you're meant to eventually lead "your people" into the coalition to defeat the Overlord, but that doesn't quite work in a cosmopolitan stone soup setting. Besides, I can't help but feel that "find a way to relate stuff to your winged elf heritage" as a mechanically incentivized goal can only lead to repetition after awhile.

You are allowed to just say that your people aren't a monolith. You have a responsibility to represent your people, but that responsibility is as a player to the other players, not as a character to the other characters. If you're The Dwarf and all dwarves have stone hearts, then say that. If that means that most dwarves prefer the company of stone and dark, then say that too. But you have "an airy heart" (you know, an oxide) and you like it on the surface, and you can say that, too.

Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.

Clapping Larry
I'll be the fool who actually goes to bat for hit points: when the game genre is appropriate for it they're an excellent way of expressing the danger of the situation on a player without actually putting up the big consequences. When something does 1d10 damage to you that feels like a big deal, even if you have the time and care and healing poultice to make it like it never happened at all.

Enemy hit points, however, can die in a ditch.

Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.

Clapping Larry

Dr. Clockwork posted:

Got a wild hair up my rear end this morning to make a PBTA hack where you play the monsters in a dungeon. I don't know why, and I'm trying to talk myself out of going through the effort because I don't really have time to write an RPG right now lol. I see that there is already a Forged in the Dark hack called Wicked Ones, but it seems to focus more on the dungeon building and of course FitD is a lot crunchier and mission focused where you pick a monster race and a class etc. I was thinking something more classic PBTA spirit and free form. Is your dungeon a hole in the ground full of random monsters? An undead crypt? A mad wizard's laboratory? A xenophobic elven commune who kill all outsiders? Is today's session going to be raiding a human hamlet or focused on internal politics and drama? Are we overthrowing the Dungeon Master or just happy with their leadership?

I dunno. Is this worth pursuing or has someone already done it better?

I was going to suggest mining the "Number Appearing" supplement to Dungeon World for ideas, but the only reason I'm mentioning it right now is that its creator pulled it three years ago for being too racially essentialist for their liking and hasn't come back with a replacement.

It might still be worth tracking down on the dark web if you're really curious.

"No Country For Old Kobolds" does some interesting stuff with effectively troupe-style play in that any given mission is going to involve a squad of expendables but success improves everyone’s lot so "character progression" is still effectively a thing.

Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.

Clapping Larry

Chernobyl Princess posted:

We are a teeny tiny channel and kind of hard to find, but "livefromtheapocalypse stalker in the woods" found it for me.

I'll be running a long term Urban Shadows game on that same channel in April. Has anyone ever adapted US to have the fail-forward mechanic other PbtA games have rather than try to use the interaction mechanic? I have some new players, and fail-forward is a lot easier to understand.

"Fail-forward" specifically means that the state of the game advances on a roll failure so the PCs aren't expected to roll for the same thing twice.

Are you referring to taking the "interact significantly with each faction once to get an advancement" mechanic and replacing it with some sort of more general advance-through-experience-point system involving getting XP on a miss?

Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.

Clapping Larry

Chernobyl Princess posted:

Yes, that exactly. Sorry, I'm extremely bad at remembering jargon, even for things I really enjoy.

The more I think about it, the more I'm inclined to not mess with the advancement system, Urban Shadows is a slow-advancing system for a reason, the tension between reaching for easy power through Corruption vs the slower growth through Advancement is pretty critical to the setting.

...but having played it before while also playing other PbtA games with the advance-on-a-miss mechanic I really liked the latter, it's just a lot easier to see satisfying growth on the character sheet that way.

But if that's what I wanted to do I could run Monsterhearts or Monster of the Week instead and not even think about it. So I figured I'd ask here and see if anyone else has thoughts.

Your XP actions kind of determine what you're looking out for during play.

In AW, it's what sorts of things the MC/your best bud wanted you to do this episode.

In DW, it's a mix of letting the DM cackle evilly on failures and reflecting on your adventures at end of session.

Urban Shadows gives you XP for participating in the debt economy and playing the faction game, and given that those things are supposed to drive your character's plots they seem like pretty good things to think about.

Are your "new people" new to roleplaying, or new to PbtA, or PbtA players new to this game? Unless it's the last one, there's probably more benefit in expecting them to learn to do the debt economy and the faction game.

If it is the last one and you have people expecting to mark XP on a miss I'd suggest maybe a three-dot "hard knocks" track and say you can advance with either four factions (and clear your faction marks) or three factions and a full "hard knocks" track (and clear both).

Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.

Clapping Larry

Golden Bee posted:

It’s hard, even with strong players. Modern life, compared to a fantasy setting, has super fast travel, traffic and often 10,000x more NPC’s. If you’re in the penthouse in Manhattan and there’s a werewolf rumble in Brooklyn, it could realistically be over before you exit your elevator and call a cab.

I think one of the assumptions is that the GM would be able to use debts to hook people into colliding with each other. Werewolves are gonna rumble in Brooklyn? You're not in the penthouse in Manhattan, you got a call yesterday night and now you're in some trendy ethnic place at South Myrtle paying off a Mortality debt because some wandering seer looked into a local crime boss's eyes and promised doom and it's not like she believes or anything but these people have just been so persistent about it that now you'll be square if you just spend one ill-omened night as an ad hoc bouncer.

Oh my, guess who just made an awkward landing right through the front window.

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Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.

Clapping Larry

Josef bugman posted:

I feel like this is the most apropos place for this. Because it is truly wonderful art.



Ugh.

I mean, I get it, you put the important guy on the cover, but Doug Dimmadark, owner of the Dimmsvol Darkendome, is Tier D. Nobody's gonna get that high outside of the stunt premades they give you at cons!

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