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chaoslord
Jan 28, 2009

Nature Abhors A Vacuum




Hal Incandenza posted:

Spoonsy's only other real post this game, checks in to say "well yeah, I did just post that to look like I was doing something" but still can't elaborate on anything or return to the people he cased earlier.

Ends with a weak vote on WW that he basically reserves the right to move elsewhere if a better vote (i.e. non-scum vote) comes along. Even his reasoning for the vote looks more like buddying up to Nth than actually analyzing anything about WW.

##vote Spoonsy

I like this case

##vote Spoonsy

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chaoslord
Jan 28, 2009

Nature Abhors A Vacuum




Max posted:

Also, Gamer pointed out something about Quid that I missed: What town doesn't immediately check who died during the night? Wouldn't a town player think to check that in case they died? The only people that can reasonably assume they are safe are scum.

##vote Quidnose

To make sure I'm not missing anything, your case on Quidnose is QPQ's light defense of him in response to Quinquereme's vote and then Quidnose failing to read the flips right, correct? While I think the former is a (possible) point, I don't think misreading flips is a scumtell. Or, if it is, it's a strange one because Quidnose didn't have to make it public that he missed it.

chaoslord
Jan 28, 2009

Nature Abhors A Vacuum




Also, Ecco told you all to say hullo and no one did :(

chaoslord
Jan 28, 2009

Nature Abhors A Vacuum




I'd vote Squiggly too. He is trying to sell how town he is

Squiggly posted:

I'll humor you: I dunno. Two of the four people I posted about are dead and flipped scum

Gamer has a bunch of poo poo posts, but he might just be a lovely poster. Only time will tell

Squiggly posted:

I ended the day voting quid I dunno what to tell ya man

Squiggly posted:

SORRY MY SCUMDAR IS TOO GOOD

pretty hard. Also, I don't buy his explanation for his "vote" on gamer. He claimed to be "going for a reaction" and never gets one. If he was trying to get a reaction and got ignored, wouldn't the next idea be "try to get a reaction again"? Instead, he decides to say "I'd vote walruswhiskers" and never comes back to gamer. Even when asked about what reaction he got from it, his response is

Squiggly posted:

My conclusion is that neither you or zzyzx actually looked at the vote counts or context to my post

His whole point for the "vote" was to (supposedly) learn more about gamer's alignment from a reaction. When the reaction didn't come, he left it alone, shrugged his shoulder, and watched the day end without trying again. The whole sequence reads more to me more like he was trying to change the direction of the vote, forgot Ecco's rule, realized that when the postcount went up, saw the writing on the wall, and paid lip-service to what was becoming the clear lynch for the day.

If he thought gamer might be a badguy (which is why you'd be going after a reaction), why didn't he use the time at the end of the day to try to get some more posts out of him? His only posts after the "vote" were saying "I'd vote walrus" and then trying to give walrus more time to claim. He says he is still unsure of gamer today in his first post I quoted, so why has he not tried to get any reaction out of him since the new day has started?

I think it's because he already knows what gamer's alignment is so he doesn't have a reason to actually try to get it.

Actually, I've talked myself into it
##unvote
##vote Squiggly

chaoslord
Jan 28, 2009

Nature Abhors A Vacuum




EccoRaven posted:

:d: Day 2 deadline: Friday, July 17th, ~11PM EDT. I know this is a Friday so I am fine extending it to Sunday or contracting it to Thursday depending on how fast this day goes.

chaoslord
Jan 28, 2009

Nature Abhors A Vacuum




Gamerofthegame posted:

Flavor-wise, Clarent is the Cool Town Lady, so I guess Clarent-aligned is some sort of mason doc thing you can be invited to. Or townie cult.

It's likely this. It's a Large Ecco Game, after all. Last one I remember being in had town, pro-town-3p-that-recruited, anti-town-3p, scum.

chaoslord
Jan 28, 2009

Nature Abhors A Vacuum




Based on Squigglys final post I think his role was probably more like "Make the hammer fall when they PM mod" rather than cancel.

chaoslord
Jan 28, 2009

Nature Abhors A Vacuum




While I hate to interrupt dethy chat, Max you just zoomed on by this post and didn't drop an answer off so I'd like this to at least be acknowledged

chaoslord posted:

To make sure I'm not missing anything, your case on Quidnose is QPQ's light defense of him in response to Quinquereme's vote and then Quidnose failing to read the flips right, correct? While I think the former is a (possible) point, I don't think misreading flips is a scumtell. Or, if it is, it's a strange one because Quidnose didn't have to make it public that he missed it.

chaoslord
Jan 28, 2009

Nature Abhors A Vacuum




Quinquereme posted:

Excuse my ignorance again - is it extremely unlikely for two scum to claim this together? Everyone has accepted this claim as real but I don't really know why two scum couldn't be doing this together?

It's possible but "extremely unlikely" describes it exactly. Especially in a game with multiple nightkills and with scum down people. If one of them were to flip something other than confirmed town mason, we know the other is telling a lie and that sinks them, too. It's a brave play if they're not telling the truth. With how hard QPQ was pushing gamer I think it's clear gamer is town and I don't see why town would lie about being in a confirmed masonry.

chaoslord
Jan 28, 2009

Nature Abhors A Vacuum




Max posted:

I would also vote wins if people are more comfortable with that today. I had found him kinda town for backing off me day 1 and just calling my play stubborn town. That didn't seem like something scum would have done in that situation, but it's possible they had decided to move on to gamer at that point as well.

I would also be wary of people and how they approach all this, because it would be very, very easy to hide behind figuring this out since the results of it are based on logic and deduction (like what I've done so far!)

I'm worried about people just hiding behind logic, too. Could you elaborate on why you went with zzyxx? You say that you are wary of folks who are just hiding behind the "logic" aspect, but you never explain your vote past "more likely".

Spoonsy, what about you? Would you like to back up your vote with anything other than logic?

Gamer and Nth, yall did the same thing so if yall want to add more to your vote feel free, but I'm less interested since I believe the confirmed mason claim

chaoslord
Jan 28, 2009

Nature Abhors A Vacuum




Someone (likely WWM since they called me out or Max since I'm posting at him) will probably come through and ask who I think is scum between zzyzx and wins and the answer is "I don't have a strong thought." Got a slight gut read but I need to investigate it more. Personally, I'd still rather vote Spoonsy, but accepting that this looks, smells, and quacks like a dethy, I need to take a read of their posts in context rather than just the post history. I've got to get around for church now though so I'll be in and out on the phone til mid-afternoon. Oh, also, still interested in why wins was asking about Amoeba.

chaoslord
Jan 28, 2009

Nature Abhors A Vacuum




Does anyone have a case on zzyzx that isn't gut? I don't see it.

chaoslord
Jan 28, 2009

Nature Abhors A Vacuum




Hal Incandenza posted:

I was really hoping wins would post again, I am fine with voting him but I'll hold off since he's -2 now with some time to go.

This is where I'm at.

chaoslord
Jan 28, 2009

Nature Abhors A Vacuum




Quinquereme, would you vote wins? Why or why not? Dont need to actually move your vote if yes since I'd rather we wait, but I'm curious about your thoughts on things as they are now after you've had some time to reflect

chaoslord
Jan 28, 2009

Nature Abhors A Vacuum




Max posted:

FV, what was your theory on Wins yesterday? I'm interested in your thoughts since there isn't much here in the thread that you've shared. Chaoslord too, I suppose.

If you're asking "Would I have voted wins?", yeah, I would have. F_V's case and WWM's post about wins being the right move for the day had me sold. Doubly so when the only thoughts about zzyzx were gut reads. I would have preferred to wait for wins to come back but that didn't end up happening. If that's not what you were asking, then try asking again, ha.

chaoslord
Jan 28, 2009

Nature Abhors A Vacuum




Max posted:

We have a nightkill that looks and smells like a werewolf and now we have a player that is bulletproof but they don't know it with apparently a strange result from a role-cop (I am not happy wins did in fact have a result but didn't come back to explain it, but maybe something came up in his life or something.) I don't think it would be a stretch to think that Amoeba is the one responsible for the werewolf-looking kill. I don't know how much I believe their claim that they didn't know about being bulletproof, but whatever.

Oh, also, I don't think Amoeba is the werewolf. Granted, it's speculation on my part, but I think there's a much better explanation around. (Quote this post and laugh at me when I'm wrong)

chaoslord
Jan 28, 2009

Nature Abhors A Vacuum




Honestly, I don't even know what to make about the Clarent aligned thing but I feel like it's going to end up being just another big distraction for me. I'm getting way too tripped up on all these extra speculations so I'm gonna go back to what I feel is right outside of those things

##vote Spoonsy

Looks like Amoeba's pinging a lot of people, re:secret abilities, which is strange as hell, but I don't remember anything outside of that. I'll reread them when I have more time.

chaoslord
Jan 28, 2009

Nature Abhors A Vacuum




Max posted:

Is your speculation just "I don't think Amoeba is the werewolf?" Because that isn't really just speculation, that's just a baseless assumption. My better explanation for "Amoeba doesn't know about their powers" is that Amoeba is just lying about that part. Serial killer being bulletproof fits though.

No. Admittedly, it is flavor speculation, but if there is one mod that makes games that I'm comfortable to flavor speculate for it's Ecco. I have a specific alternate candidate in mind for it and they are town. That said,

fiery_valkyrie posted:

As a role cop instead Amoeba could still easily be a SK. I'm not convinced by Amoeba claiming to not know what his powers were. It seems fairly obvious to me that wins learnt something about his role. Why would a rolecop be told more than the player themselves about their role?

Additionally, if Amoeba was the one performing the fireball kills, he would know that his action failed N2 and could claim it was targeted at him instead.

This is a good point and I could see Amoeba being the fireball killer.

chaoslord
Jan 28, 2009

Nature Abhors A Vacuum




Quinquereme posted:

Hey chaos can you please elaborate on this - what do you think would be a much better explanation? And are you referring to an explanation for wins' actions here or for Amoeba's weird role or something else entirely?

So gamer denied being it but my thought was that it made more sense for gamer to be the wolfman. Consider their twins flip:

EccoRaven posted:

Town woke up to find two more people killed. Nth was stabbed in the chest repeatedly, blood staining his sheets and pooling around the edge of his bed. He was the Hall's gamekeeper, making sure all the stags, boars, foxes, eels, hawks, and so on were alive and well for Her Lady's pleasure. He was an ancient figure, having been with the Hall longer than anyone could remember, but it seemed as if it's true - all lives must eventually end.

:s: Nth Doctor, Auguste, Gamekeeper (town-aligned roleblocker), was stabbed to death night 3. :s:

Their twin was a gamekeeper that had been described as ancient. That word caught my eye because that's a word generally associated with more mythical things. It just made a lot of sense to me flavorfully, like the one twin became a gamekeeper to help control his brother (which is why his brother ends up town aligned). Gives town a nightkill, scum had their dayvig + normal nightkill, and then theres a 3p fireball guy out there.

Again, though, gamer said it wasn't him, so

chaoslord
Jan 28, 2009

Nature Abhors A Vacuum




Quinquereme posted:

f_v this doesn't make sense to me - Spoonsy is clearly voting Amoeba because he'll be gone for a while and wants his vote down in case he's not back by the time the day ends. He is voting Amoeba because he also believes that wins had good reason for what he did. Why would you say Spoonsy is only voting based on where the thread is going?

I agree with f_v. It was such a lazy vote. "Wins saw something. Also I won't be around. Just gonna vote the voteleader." ...really? It's adding a vote without taking any responsibility for it. If Amoeba flips town? "Oh, well, hey, I thought wins had a result! Whoopsy!" They never mention Amoeba's alignment or any thoughts about them as a player. It's a complete vote of opportunity that has no downside for them because no matter the way it ends up they have an out. Which, of course, fits all their votes. Spoonsy has just been going with the tide the whole game.

chaoslord
Jan 28, 2009

Nature Abhors A Vacuum




Gamerofthegame posted:

Pretty sure ancient is just "dudes really old and been around so he knows everyone" as an excuse for the roleblock, not anything else.

Oh no, I fully accept that I'm wrong and was reading too much into it now. Just thought I had found some big clue in Ecco's flavor.

chaoslord
Jan 28, 2009

Nature Abhors A Vacuum




Gamerofthegame posted:

ps Chaos, vote Amoeba please.

I might move my vote but right now I don't see it. I'm working on re-reading Amoeba (didn't do it earlier because when I came back to the thread I saw a hammer so I figured I did not need to anymore), but in the more recent stuff all I see is a bunch of flailing around, which imo isn't alignment specific. People flail regardless of what they are if they think they are right and being pressured off the right path.

Basically, I have mixed feelings about what Amoeba will flip as and the votes are already there to make it happen so I don't see a need to jump on just to say I was part of the dunk if it goes well. On the other hand, I have a good idea of what Spoonsy will flip as so right now that's where I'd rather my vote be.

chaoslord
Jan 28, 2009

Nature Abhors A Vacuum




100YrsofAttitude posted:

This one is easy guys. Chaoslord was the first person to not actually suspect Amoeba at all trying to play it off as something else. Also he keeps the trend of not believing Clarent aligned as pro town.

He's definitely scum.

##vote Chaoslord

There's a difference in between deciding that I don't want to deal with trying to decide if this 3p group is town or not when I have what I felt was a good scum read outside of it and actively promoting Clarent as bad guys. Also, I was right about Amoeba not being the werewolf.

If you want to vote me, go for it man. I don't remember if you are Clarent or not, but assuming no, you and I are the only two folks who are not either Cop or Clarent (well, I guess gamer too, but he's confirmed town), so we're gonna be the two everyone looks at. And if you are, then I'm the obvious vote alone. But you don't have to make stuff up to get to your vote :P

chaoslord
Jan 28, 2009

Nature Abhors A Vacuum




100YrsofAttitude posted:

The way I see it is that you don't have to try to decide whether or not Clarent is town or not. I mean you were actually in that Madriu scum team with me and saw how that went down. I'm surprised you would even in the slightest doubt the veracity of the claim this time around. The fact that you're in the slightest waffling about it is pretty indicative for me.

Yes, why would someone who has been in a game with a town+ and scum+ 3p faction be unsure right after a recruiting group 3p claim? I didn't rush out and pledge loyalty to the 3p group, oh no.

chaoslord
Jan 28, 2009

Nature Abhors A Vacuum




100YrsofAttitude posted:

Was Whichwaymadness part of the cop/dethy group because that would supposedly exonerate the rest of them right?

Yeah, in a traditional dethy it would.

chaoslord
Jan 28, 2009

Nature Abhors A Vacuum




100YrsofAttitude posted:

100yrs stealing my theory and then claiming it as their own :argh:

My "Gamer is the werewolf" theory included both "ancient" and the fact that he was a gamekeeper, even explicitly saying "a gamekeeper to help control his brother". So come on, give me some credit, don't just say I was only saying the word ancient was my entire thought.

chaoslord
Jan 28, 2009

Nature Abhors A Vacuum




Totally called Gamer being the werewolf (Amoeba spotted it first, though; credit where credit is due!). Also called Quin being the mason recruiter. Finally, now it makes a lot more sense why no one really ever looked Spoonsy's way.

:toot: Thanks for the game Ecco

chaoslord
Jan 28, 2009

Nature Abhors A Vacuum




WHICH WAY MADNESS posted:

Had fun, that was by far the most difficult role I've ever had. Thanks Ecco, sorry to the scum team, I tried my best :shobon:

Thought you did great considering the circumstance of not being able to talk to us. Has to be hard to play against the town when you can't coordinate with teammates.

Also thanks everyone for hammering me when I was in my friday morning meeting earlier :argh:

chaoslord
Jan 28, 2009

Nature Abhors A Vacuum




Max posted:

So, also, for real, on Day 1 I was just legitimately concerned about trap phrases and that Kean had somehow tricked a whole mess of people into doing something bad. When I realized what was happening, I tried to disengage but obviously that didn't happen.

Reading through all that when I was trying to catch up was the woooooooorst

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chaoslord
Jan 28, 2009

Nature Abhors A Vacuum




WHICH WAY MADNESS posted:

Hey so we're you guys ever able to decipher the message I sent where I outed the cops? Ecco said it was possible for someone to intercept it so I tried to be clever, and we all know how well that works.

For reference, "Investigate Wagner’s flight when lawyers kickoff with utensils. Then you’ll earn your badge. FMPS"
Wagner - ride of the Valkyries
Lawyers - merk
Kickoff - Puntification
Utensils - Spoonsy
Badges- just a reference to cops
FMPS was just fiery merk Punt Spoonsy

I am bad at being a mole

I never saw that message! I dont know who got them (Amoeba maybe?) but the first one I saw was "Pay a visit to numbers 4 8 10 14" which we figured out

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