|
Rhyno posted:Didn't White Wolf sue over the similarities? A quick google search show that no, they only sued over Underworld, which to me seems weird. Blade has a lot more blatant similarities.
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2015 05:49
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 23, 2024 19:27 |
|
|
Rhyno posted:Didn't White Wolf sue over the similarities? They couldn't touch Blade because how do you touch one of the raddest movies and, the basic idea of vampires running things from behind the scenes isn't new. They did sue Sony over Underworld though. I'm sure someone else can give details but long story short Sony tried to claim that the makers of Underworld had never heard of World of Darkness or White Wolf and that any similarities (even in some of the terminology used) are a coincidence because of course it's a story about werewolves and vampires so it will seem similar but come on, it's not like White Wolf invented vampires and werewolves. But then White Wolf presented footage of some of the people behind Underworld from a con where they straight up talk about how important White Wolf is and how much influence it had on their ideas for Underworld so that basically ended it. EDIT: I feel like Underworld is waaaaay more blatant in its imitation, but besides that, the Blade comic character had been around since 1973. Even if White Wolf thought Blade was too close I'm sure they figured with that long of a run pretty much any incarnation of "overlord vampires" was covered in the comics somewhere. The other big difference in that the actual abilities the various vampires use are often very similar to how vampires can act in the White Wolf games, while in Blade there's the more basic being killed by prolonged sunlight and being able to regenerate, which has been around forever. It seems like a thin line but Underworld very clearly imitates Vampire in the terminology used for its groups, the way the social order is structured, etc., while Blade does its own thing. Finally, regarding Blade and Vampire: The Masquerade, vampires and vampire hunters roaming from city to city until one is picked clean of the other? Ancient blood gods with secrets revealed via forbidden scriptures? Very limited walking around in daylight for vampires that have less pure blood? All of that stuff is in the White Wolf book Guide to the Sabbat, from 1999. Neo Rasa fucked around with this message at 06:02 on Aug 10, 2015 |
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2015 05:52
|
|
|
Fat Lou, thank you for the continued scene by scene work. This is a public service of some kind you are doing. Seriously. I haven't seen this movie in years but it is oddly fascinating to go through here haha. This movie is amazing though. I still use the iceskate uphill line. Sadly, few people seem to care for the reference in my personal circles.
|
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2015 08:28
|
|
|
New Line Cinema should've sued the poo poo out of the developers/publishers of SiN game, they had a black guy named Blade as the protagonist using the same gun from the first movie.
|
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2015 09:46
|
|
|
Fat Lou posted:
What was this kickin' rad techno? It sounded almost like an already abstract song rendered in reverse and I liked it. I want more.
|
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2015 13:48
|
|
|
The most Captain Obvious-esque video title ever: http://youtu.be/34bDl63vWzk Not sure if it classifies as drum'n'bass or jungle, I could never tell those two apart. Mierenneuker fucked around with this message at 15:37 on Aug 10, 2015 |
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2015 15:34
|
|
|
Thanks for all of this. I played World of Darkness for all of like an afternoon, so I have no clue about anything related to it. Fat Lou fucked around with this message at 17:23 on Aug 10, 2015 |
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2015 17:01
|
|
|
Fat Lou posted:Oh poo poo, yeah, I don't know why I completely forgot about that part. So is that an allegory for something? I can't put my finger on what it is though.
|
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2015 00:09
|
|
|
nm
|
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2015 00:32
|
|
|
Fat Lou posted:
The city in general is very white and sterile looking and the music matches it. This changes noticeably after Blade has the "You better wake up..." dialogue with Karen. The score is generally Carpenter-esque but from that point on is much more sinister and urgent. Neo Rasa fucked around with this message at 05:17 on Aug 11, 2015 |
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2015 04:35
|
|
|
Neo Rasa posted:They couldn't touch Blade because how do you touch one of the raddest movies and, the basic idea of vampires running things from behind the scenes isn't new. They did sue Sony over Underworld though. I'm sure someone else can give details but long story short Sony tried to claim that the makers of Underworld had never heard of World of Darkness or White Wolf and that any similarities (even in some of the terminology used) are a coincidence because of course it's a story about werewolves and vampires so it will seem similar but come on, it's not like White Wolf invented vampires and werewolves. But then White Wolf presented footage of some of the people behind Underworld from a con where they straight up talk about how important White Wolf is and how much influence it had on their ideas for Underworld so that basically ended it. The Underworld law suit was because there was a specific short story in some Vampire: the Masquerade fiction anthology that was basically the same plot, in addition to using a bunch of the same terminology and such. It was kinda blatant. Also, while Guide to the Sabbat was released in 1999, the Player's Guide to the Sabbat, for an earlier edition of Vampire, was released in 1992. I personally think it's pretty likely that V:tM was a big influence on Blade's vampire culture, which is a good thing because it's cool.
|
|
#
?
Aug 12, 2015 00:43
|
|
|
Gilok posted:Also, while Guide to the Sabbat was released in 1999, the Player's Guide to the Sabbat, for an earlier edition of Vampire, was released in 1992. I personally think it's pretty likely that V:tM was a big influence on Blade's vampire culture, which is a good thing because it's cool. I'm sure there was some influence, but the specific examples I mentioned IIRC didn't appear until the 1999 guide. But in general yeah I'm glad Blade took it in a different direction and made it less gothic and more smarmy. Either way unlike with Underworld (that's crazy that they straight up ripped one of the novels that blatantly) I think Blade does more than enough to differentiate itself.
|
|
#
?
Aug 12, 2015 01:04
|
|
|
All I'm saying is, it would be cool to see Blade fight the crazy elder vampires from V:tM, like the scientist who'd discovered how vampires work by vivisecting other vamps or those who had time manipulating powers for no reasons (maybe the writers had read too much Jojo?).
|
|
#
?
Aug 12, 2015 01:59
|
|
|
That would mega own. They tried to play up Drake in Blade III like he was going to have crazy abilities like that but, uh...
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2015 01:37
|
|
|
MonsieurChoc posted:All I'm saying is, it would be cool to see Blade fight the crazy elder vampires from V:tM, like the scientist who'd discovered how vampires work by vivisecting other vamps or those who had time manipulating powers for no reasons (maybe the writers had read too much Jojo?). Blade: Trinity would have been a great movie if, in the first scene, the vampires don't uncover Dracula, they uncover Malak. Just an unknowable eating machine. An insane whirlwind of teeth that create storm clouds that rain blood so that he and his followers may walk in the day. poo poo, you don't kill the elders. You have to survive their onslaught until they get tired and meld back into the earth.
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2015 05:17
|
|
|
Inzombiac posted:Blade: Trinity would have been a great movie if, in the first scene, the vampires don't uncover Dracula, they uncover Malak. The Antedeluvians (the founder of the clans) are all pretty insane. One is a gigantic flesh mosntrosity that can take over anyone who drank his blood when he dies (and by modern times, that's a lot of vampires), another one has melded with the Earth and at one point in the Gehenna book eats a city. There's one that survives as a mind-network infecting his entire clan with madness. There's one that wants to wipe out his own clan and has bred an army of huge blood mosnters in the Arctic. There's the evil snake god who's cult is trying to resurrect. Blade taking on something on that level of crazy and winning would make for a pretty awesome fight.
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2015 05:42
|
|
|
My favorite was how the Malkavian antideluvian, whose clan was universally insane on some level, basically transcended vampirism to become a self-aware mass hallucination.
|
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2015 05:45
|
|
|
Inzombiac posted:Blade: Trinity would have been a great movie if, in the first scene, the vampires don't uncover Dracula, they uncover Malak. Hi I need a source for this
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2015 05:55
|
|
|
Literally The Worst posted:Hi I need a source for this I think it's in the Gehena book. It talks about what happens when the ancients wake up. The Tzimitzie (?) clan can mold flesh and their elder is now The Flesh Cathedral. It presumably rests beneath Manhattan or maybe the Collusieum, no one knows, and moves about underground. It rises to those that can find it and they add themselves the pulsing, undulating architecture. Like the guy above said, I think it's the ancient Bruja that is disgusted with his "thin blood" clan that he wants to eat them all to make himself alpha-vampire supreme and fire blood spikes out if his eyes. White Wolf writes the stupidest poo poo and I adore it.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2015 05:23
|
|
|
This why I always kind of liked the alternate end fight they tried for Blade. In the movie, Frost completes the ritual and then Blade fights him. Frost has special powers because he completed the ritual and now he's a "blood god" These powers are basically only showcased in the "you cut me in half but blood puts me back together" scene which is great, but it's kind of underwhelming. On dvd, you can see an incomplete version of what they originally planned. Instead of staying a humanoid vampire, Frost becomes essentially a giant fountain of CGI blood. This crazy blood elemental that fills the whole room in a vortex of blood. He beats it the same way, with the serum that reacts violently with vampire blood, but instead of an underwhelming martial arts fight, it's man against literally blood-god. Here is an interview about it, skip to 8:00 in for the test footage (not sure if this is the correct term) of what the ending was originally going to be like. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fnzen9QCmrs
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2015 06:01
|
|
|
With modern CG and more actual fighting, that would be kickin' rad.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2015 06:31
|
|
|
Inzombiac posted:With modern CG and more actual fighting, that would be kickin' rad. yeah, you can see why they didn't go with what they have, but with modern CGI on an MCU budget, that would have been amazing. Frost is literally the most forgettable part of Blade to me. He's a generic antagonist and the threat is: "An rear end in a top hat will be powerful". The True La Magra is much more interesting be it is explicitly non-human. Humanoid vampires have this thing where they are basically standins for evil humans. Udo Kier is the old-money industrial control while Frost is the tech startup. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Meet La Magra, and it's a literal apocalypse.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2015 08:32
|
|
|
Snak posted:yeah, you can see why they didn't go with what they have, but with modern CGI on an MCU budget, that would have been amazing. Frost is literally the most forgettable part of Blade to me. He's a generic antagonist and the threat is: "An rear end in a top hat will be powerful". The True La Magra is much more interesting be it is explicitly non-human. Humanoid vampires have this thing where they are basically standins for evil humans. Udo Kier is the old-money industrial control while Frost is the tech startup. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Meet La Magra, and it's a literal apocalypse. On the other hand, "villain is/turns into a cloud" has been done before in comic book movies. I agree that it would be amazing if it were something akin to the ending of new Evild Dead, but I'd expect Rise of the Silver Surfer before I'd expect Evil Dead.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2015 09:11
|
|
|
"Hero fights a giant cgi blob" as the climatic fight is the worst idea for any movie, no matter the year.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2015 09:22
|
|
|
fatherboxx posted:"Hero fights a giant cgi blob" as the climatic fight is the worst idea for any movie, no matter the year. Eh. It depends what kind of story it is. Yeah if you need a manifest antagonist to tell your story, go with that. If your story comes to an existential conclusion, the cgi blob might just work. Guardians of the Galaxy basically pulls this off.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2015 12:30
|
|
|
Grendels Dad posted:On the other hand, "villain is/turns into a cloud" has been done before in comic book movies. I agree that it would be amazing if it were something akin to the ending of new Evild Dead, but I'd expect Rise of the Silver Surfer before I'd expect Evil Dead. Plus wasn't a lot of new Evil Dead's final struggle done with practical effects (save the hand/etc.) anyway?
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2015 15:52
|
|
|
Snak posted:Eh. It depends what kind of story it is. Yeah if you need a manifest antagonist to tell your story, go with that. If your story comes to an existential conclusion, the cgi blob might just work. Guardians of the Galaxy basically pulls this off. Not exactly a blob, and I'd expect plenty of people to disagree with me, but I feel like Hellboy pulled it off as well. The whole Nazis building a portal to the Elder Gods thing was great and I don't think just a super-powered Rasputin would have been as good as what they went with.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2015 19:11
|
|
|
Basebf555 posted:Not exactly a blob, and I'd expect plenty of people to disagree with me, but I feel like Hellboy pulled it off as well. The whole Nazis building a portal to the Elder Gods thing was great and I don't think just a super-powered Rasputin would have been as good as what they went with. No yeah, the first Hellboy was great, and the Ogdru Jahad worked really well. Haven't seen the second so no comment on that.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2015 23:04
|
|
|
Second one has an actual boss fight, it's pretty sweet
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2015 23:08
|
|
|
Gilok posted:Second one has an actual boss fight, it's pretty sweet Hellboy 2 is a very beautiful mess.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2015 23:11
|
|
|
Gilok posted:Second one has an actual boss fight, it's pretty sweet Yeah, He2boy in general is pretty underrated and that final fight was really satisfying. Coincidentally, the final boss from that movie was also the final boss in Blade 2.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2015 23:13
|
|
|
I haven't watched it since it came out, but I was disappointed at the time. I seem to recall the second movie losing a lot of its horror vibe and that's a big part of what makes hellboy, hellboy
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2015 23:17
|
|
|
I feel like pacing and tone were HB1's biggest problems, for which there is no easy fix. HB2 multiplies all of them by 100. I should really watch it again some time though, because even though I thought it was really bad, a lot of the visuals have stuck with me, since they were so fantastic.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2015 23:19
|
|
|
Bohemian Nights posted:I haven't watched it since it came out, but I was disappointed at the time. I seem to recall the second movie losing a lot of its horror vibe and that's a big part of what makes hellboy, hellboy That's certainly true about the horror elements, but HB2 replaced those horror elements with fantasy elements straight out of the pages of Neil Gaiman, which worked fine enough for me.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2015 23:21
|
|
|
Grendels Dad posted:That's certainly true about the horror elements, but HB2 replaced those horror elements with fantasy elements straight out of the pages of Neil Gaiman, which worked fine enough for me. Fantasy has always been a huge part of Hellboy. The main theme in the comic and the movie was fairy tales versus the real world.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2015 23:36
|
|
|
Grendels Dad posted:That's certainly true about the horror elements, but HB2 replaced those horror elements with fantasy elements straight out of the pages of Neil Gaiman, which worked fine enough for me. Wasn't Gaiman even involved in the movie in some off-the-books way, since del Toro was at the same time working with him on the failed Death movie?
|
|
#
?
Aug 15, 2015 00:07
|
|
|
Hellboy 2 still has the ebst depiction of an angel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-rl8q9jezU
|
|
#
?
Aug 15, 2015 01:13
|
|
|
MonsieurChoc posted:Hellboy 2 still has the ebst depiction of an angel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-rl8q9jezU Alright, that is a loving old testament angel, none of that pretty man with swan wings bullshit, but a deformed giant with eyed wings. I'm gonna watch that movie for sure.
|
|
#
?
Aug 15, 2015 01:22
|
|
|
Hellboy 2 is one of the most gorgeous spectacles I've ever seen put to film.
|
|
#
?
Aug 15, 2015 01:36
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 23, 2024 19:27 |
|
|
Chairman Capone posted:Wasn't Gaiman even involved in the movie in some off-the-books way, since del Toro was at the same time working with him on the failed Death movie? Gaiman stopped by the set to get some directing pointers from del Toro. The fairytale stuff was decided early on by both Guillermo and Mike Mignola. In the documentary Mignola mentions how the first movie was "a little lite on monsters", so the sequel gets jam packed with them.
|
|
#
?
Aug 15, 2015 21:02
|
|