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Baloogan posted:I had ~200-250 or so in 1928 and checked 'unrestricted submarine warfare' for one turn and went from 40 prestige to 12 and lost the game as I sunk around 4 or 5 cruise liners. Serves you right.  
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Jul 21, 2015 22:14
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The torpedo situation is getting silly. The enemy ship was just doing circles permanently and my light cruiser wouldn't fire his port torpedo, which was undamaged. But then the enemy ship fires, because of course it does and my ship instantly sinks. Never trust torpedoes.
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Jul 21, 2015 22:15
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I swear to god Britain is being led by some sort of bizarro reverse Jackie Fisher. Their most numerous BB class has 14x14" guns... and 8" of belt. Their most recent BC? 8x16"  and 13.5" belt.
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Jul 21, 2015 23:42
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I keep seeing references to 3" and 6" guns being the best choice for fighting DD's and CL's, what is the reason behind that? I noticed gun stats aren't on a simple curve, are those guns very good for their weight because of that? Conversely, what are some bad guns?
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Jul 22, 2015 00:37
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I've reached 1915 in my first USA game after two failed wars against Japan and Great Britain, and I think I've finally got the game. Having just finished demolishing the Germans and taking the first BC in the world for my own navy. My upcoming BC, the Constitution class, will be a true war winner. Oh, Eastern Prussia is also now the 51st state of America. Things couldn't be better. 
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Jul 22, 2015 03:59
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Asehujiko posted:I keep seeing references to 3" and 6" guns being the best choice for fighting DD's and CL's, what is the reason behind that? I noticed gun stats aren't on a simple curve, are those guns very good for their weight because of that? Conversely, what are some bad guns? 3" doesn't have any penetration (At game start at least), but will at least kill destroyers because they have no armor. 6" is as big as you can get before the guns get really heavy. Also, I think most nations have -1 quality for the inbetween calibers for awhile.
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Jul 22, 2015 05:00
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I just had the biggest battle I've had yet in my CSA game versus the US. They had a pretty scary advantage over me in numbers and tonnage of BB's but they mostly turned out to be 8x12" with wing turrets and they dealt with my 14" guns poorly. My favorite part after looking through the log after was the death of the poor CA Pittsburgh, I didn't even notice when it came under fire by my two newest BB's that were catching up in the middle of the fight from the support group  Those two seconds must have been fun for that crew. e: Round two was worse, their BB's broke from their destroyer screen and I punished them badly for it. 
apseudonym fucked around with this message at 06:20 on Jul 22, 2015 |
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Jul 22, 2015 05:43
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Asehujiko posted:I keep seeing references to 3" and 6" guns being the best choice for fighting DD's and CL's, what is the reason behind that? I noticed gun stats aren't on a simple curve, are those guns very good for their weight because of that? Conversely, what are some bad guns? 2" 9" 10" 11" are my choices though it depends what you get in the mix. Obviously I'll use the best gun I got. I think those guns just tend to be early stuff where they thought they could get a better result with a slightly larger single over a double and I'd rather just have more guns per mount generally. 4" is a little weird but on low early DDs I tend to use it. Early war 99% of the time I'm losing something to a random torpedo anyway. I think the biggest struggle in the CL CA and DD stuff is the speed factor. It almost seems things tend to be a little slower than real designs, perhaps because we are far more likely to not care about losses. I generally try and keep things at least 24 kn (im assuming stuff is in knots) so I can catch the errant raider or when a cruiser battle happens. It can be a real challenge at that point to get the needed hurt in. Early on I'd rather have single turret 7" in but usually I have to compromise on the 6". Once I get wing guns or multiple centerline I'll just switch over to mainly 8" and below for CA down. I do want to try out some pocket battleships at some point though.
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Jul 22, 2015 06:32
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I use 6" for CL and 8"/10" for CA because that's how they do it in WWII  DDs start out at 3" because everything larger would be too heavy and then get upgraded to 4" and finally 5" as bigger ships become available.
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Jul 22, 2015 07:14
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I don't think sub 6" guns can penetrate protected cruisers until you get some AP research, so 6" CLs are a lot stronger in the early years. 2" guns are essentially useless against anything bigger than a 1900 destroyer, and they have absurdly short range, but they're really light and you wouldn't be using them as main weapons on anything. Some of the intermediate calibers are in a bit of a weird spot, too small for battleships but heavy enough that they're hard to fit on cruisers, but I don't think that makes them bad. You can get a lot of mileage out of an early 10" CA even if putting 10" guns on a later cruiser is awkward, and treaty limits lead to all sorts of unusual designs. Gun quality can matter though, and it's worth looking at it in the research screen before you design a ship. If your 14" guns are quality -2, they might not be any better than your higher quality, smaller guns. Besides the penetration and range the game shows you, the lower quality guns are less accurate and don't fire as quickly. If you develop better guns you can refit them onto older ships, but that takes money and time and there's no telling when you'll develop the better guns.
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Jul 22, 2015 07:48
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Saint Celestine posted:Has anyone tried making tons of submarines? As Germany I build about 40 in early wars, they netted me about 40 VP a turn, and ended up turning a battle I didn't contact the enemy fleet into a win by sinking a CL in the aftermath
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Jul 22, 2015 08:24
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Subs are crazy overpowered in my opinion. I've never used them on fleet engagement setting or whatever, just prize rules, and they will sink so much shipping each turn that they will starve the enemy into peace on their own. They die fast but they're cheap and build quickly. I build a million and it makes the game trivially easy.
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Jul 22, 2015 08:52
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 Turns out this scrapped like 7 battleships across the world, but non in mother russia, just as planned my Tzar 
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Jul 22, 2015 09:10
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Subs will only starve out a lame and dumb enemy. The real killer is blockade, which gives hundreds to over a thousand VPs per turn and is calculated by tonnage. So build those battleships!
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Jul 22, 2015 09:26
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As France I starved out GB, who were blockading me, with unrestricted sub warfare, which in my experience doesn't actually have many drawbacks.
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Jul 22, 2015 09:49
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This is weird: the game is calling this a minor victory!
Arglebargle III fucked around with this message at 10:30 on Jul 22, 2015 |
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Jul 22, 2015 10:22
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I think the game goes on tonnage, and possibly age, of the ships for calculating prestige? Old Bs are worth that much.
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Jul 22, 2015 10:38
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Theres a bug where you can build a BC at 52,000 tons, drop the speed to 29, and the game glitches out and the cost and tonnage go into the negatives. Long story short, you can build a 150,000 ton ship with 28x18" guns, 20x16" secondaries, that has 16" armor all around. I also realized from this that theres a maximum number of guns a ship can fire, and I think its 36.
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Jul 22, 2015 15:36
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Saint Celestine posted:Theres a bug where you can build a BC at 52,000 tons, drop the speed to 29, and the game glitches out and the cost and tonnage go into the negatives. Lol its the f35 of battleships, build cost is 2 billion with a monthly cost of 70 million.
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Jul 22, 2015 18:33
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What are the differences between the realism settings?
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Jul 22, 2015 19:15
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Arglebargle III posted:This is weird: the game is calling this a minor victory! Might be due to the amount damaged versus present? Not sure, seems odd.
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Jul 22, 2015 19:34
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Eastbound Spider posted:What are the differences between the realism settings? You mean Admiral, Rear-Admiral, and Captains' mode? From the Steam and Iron rulebook (which the RtW install includes): quote:In addition, the player can chose between
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Jul 22, 2015 19:37
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Good lord 13 years. I ready want to see what the B/CA/CL/DD ratio of everyone is after 13 years, and what it looks like to get into a fleet engagement with modern battleships fighting hordes of treaty cruisers.
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Jul 22, 2015 19:50
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I'd almost say whoever has the largest fleet of Grandfathered Battleships wins. But after a few years Cruiser design would advance to the point the things would probably wear them down and destroy them. Then again, maybe extensive rebuilds and refits could keep the aging battleships reasonably competitive. They'd be treated like spoiled children though, and sent running at the first sign of serious danger. Historically anyways, a player might not give a gently caress. Either way, I'd probably start jacking the weight saving techs to maximum and look into torpedoes a lot more. Galaga Galaxian fucked around with this message at 20:09 on Jul 22, 2015 |
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Jul 22, 2015 20:04
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Just finished my USA game and you weren't kidding on the change in torpedo+destroyer effectiveness. I'd love to see an expansion to the game allowing for bigger battles and more control over when and how to sortie. Something closer to Steam and Iron's campaigns. Even though I've mostly let the computer design my ships except for minor tweaks (Why have 8 5 inches when we can just have 2 10 inches? What do you mean it's too heavy? Decrease the speed to 10 knots, put more guns on it!) It's still a really fun game.
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Jul 22, 2015 20:36
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Treaties are broken, the Ai can circumvent them by building already designed classes and you can't rebuild ships that are over the tonnage/caliber as it won't let you save the designs. Plus they are cancelled by any war you get into.
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Jul 22, 2015 22:24
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Galaga Galaxian posted:I'd almost say whoever has the largest fleet of Grandfathered Battleships wins. But after a few years Cruiser design would advance to the point the things would probably wear them down and destroy them. Then again, maybe extensive rebuilds and refits could keep the aging battleships reasonably competitive. They'd be treated like spoiled children though, and sent running at the first sign of serious danger. Historically anyways, a player might not give a gently caress. I think around 1912 you could build a pretty nasty treaty cruiser with good armor, speed and a heavy 8" and surface torpedo armament. One on one they won't take a pre-treaty B or BB but in quantity they would be potent. It would also be good to build a bunch of very heavy destroyers in the French style with lots of torpedos.
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Jul 22, 2015 23:38
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Saros posted:Treaties are broken, the Ai can circumvent them by building already designed classes and you can't rebuild ships that are over the tonnage/caliber as it won't let you save the designs. Well it makes sense that they are canceled by wars.
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Jul 22, 2015 23:38
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Saros posted:Treaties are broken, the Ai can circumvent them by building already designed classes and you can't rebuild ships that are over the tonnage/caliber as it won't let you save the designs. That sounds pretty crap. I think part of that has already been reported, but I'd mention it on the NWS forums so they can fix it for 1.1. KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:I think around 1912 you could build a pretty nasty treaty cruiser with good armor, speed and a heavy 8" and surface torpedo armament. One on one they won't take a pre-treaty B or BB but in quantity they would be potent. It would also be good to build a bunch of very heavy destroyers in the French style with lots of torpedos. Yeah it'd just be Hordes of Cruisers and Destroyers getting close and shooting/torpedoing the poo poo out of eachother. Galaga Galaxian fucked around with this message at 00:09 on Jul 23, 2015 |
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Jul 23, 2015 00:01
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Yeah the war thing makes sense. Amusingly the start of a war frees up the AI but not you, you are stuck throughout the war with the limitations.
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Jul 23, 2015 00:18
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Is there a good starter guide I can look at? I want to get into this but I have no goddamn idea what I'm doing.
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Jul 23, 2015 01:00
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Afraid not. Reading the two instruction manuals included in the install might help, for a grog game they're surprisingly short; about 15-20 pages each (and not tiny crammed in text either). Though that might be part of the problem. Otherwise feel free to ask specific questions in the thread. A few of us have also been hanging out in #botes on synIRC, so you could try asking there if you're not against IRC.
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Jul 23, 2015 01:06
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Specific topics that could help me, and maybe a lot of newer people out. BOAT DESIGN, WHAT DOES IT ALLLL MEAN. I don't trust the auto designer. Even beyond what should I be doing with boats is what do the actually things I can modify do? GENERAL STRATEGY, why put boats where!? COLONIES? WHAT'S UP WITH OIL? Things like, the difference between ASW/Coastal vs Active Fleet vs Raiding and what boats should be doing what. Any answers to these questions would be awesome.
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Jul 23, 2015 01:59
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Pladdicus posted:Specific topics that could help me, and maybe a lot of newer people out. The auto designer doesn't seem too bad. It makes some weird decisions (hello cramped accommodations on every goddamn ship), but I don't think it'll do anything blatantly stupid. If nothing else you can remember that the AI countries are all using auto designed ships. When the auto designer gives you something you don't want you can always click the button again. I haven't figured out all the nuances, but I design most of my non gimmick ships by clicking auto design a couple times and then making adjustments.
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Jul 23, 2015 02:42
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Yeah my general recommendations would be this: look at the different types of combat (fleet action, convoy attack, convoy defense, bombardment, destroyers, chasing/chased raiders) and see what they are like then go back and start again and look at ship design. At the start most of these you are controlling 1-3 cruisers so I'll talk about them. So for the start of the game, withing the first ~8 years or so: You are going to be seeing a lot of cruisers so basic recommendations are roughly CL 5k ton and CA 10k ton. You will want them at at least 24 knots so they can catch other cruisers and out run Bs. Now at the very start it can be tough to have CA at 24 kn, I tend to make them go 23 kn and then when you get a few machinery techs I right click and open it for rebuild, then hit the replace machinery button. This should free up enough space to get another knot out of that design and keep it useful for another war or two. Also important techs for rebuilding at the start: central firing and when you get an upgraded main gun. These are found in fire control and naval guns respectively. So here is my first CA, you can see it is a little small since Japan's starting facilities are small. I went with 9" guns because they were at 0 and not -1. Usually I go with 10" but if it is a choice I always go with the better quality gun since you hit more often with them at 10 percent per quality so -1 is -10% to hit. You will also notice this is a rebuild, I did it in 1908 but the basic design served me well through 2 wars with germany and I now own most of their colonies including east prussia. It started at 23 kn and now it goes 24!  Here was my next CA build from 1903 right after I got the first ship design tech which allows secondary batteries to go above 7". As you can see also a rebuild but it is the first obvious improvement over the old CA design which throws a lot more big shells out at the target. I also could build them slightly larger since I upgraded my ship building facilities but I did the same thing, 23 knots with the idea of 24 down the line. Once this guy hit in the second german war they really tore through any CL or CA (or DD) they met. Also I've been experimenting with forward/rear torpedoes but so far I have not seen them really pay dividends. Generally I'm chasing something so I hoped every once and a while a torpedo would make that chase shorter but so far it has not been the case. Perhaps I just need better torpedo tech.  Anyway I'll cut if off there since I dunno if this is just telling you (dear reader) stuff you already know. The CL I'm not going to bother with because I really have not found one I'm super happy with early on yet and they all tend to look the same. Make them fast and they can run away. As for armor my ships would probably be considered a little light. I'd rather speed and killing power first because the first 8 years is a lot of shooting and not hitting things. edit: Oh one final thing I wanted to add. Since you don't start out with any torpedo defense I've been using 3" guns to try and chase off any destroyers that get close to make a torpedo run. It isn't as effective as good armor and you need a lot of them but that is why they are there. dtkozl fucked around with this message at 06:53 on Jul 23, 2015 |
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Jul 23, 2015 06:45
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Out of curiosity how viable would building a fleet where the primary capital ships are Battlecruisers and backing them up with a swarm of torpedo destroyers. Essentially use the BC's and their superior speed to lure or outmanuever the enemy battle line and then crash into them with a bunch of destroyers?
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Jul 23, 2015 07:27
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Fleet Battle and Battleship Engagement scenarios want Bs/BBs. You might not be able to do those and suffer a VP hit if they show up.
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Jul 23, 2015 07:34
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I have three random questions of my own. Has anyone gotten any mileage out of mines, if so how? Is there seaplane cruisers and if so how do I get them? What are people's thoughts on belt armor on DDs?
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Jul 23, 2015 08:08
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Saros posted:Treaties are broken, the Ai can circumvent them by building already designed classes and you can't rebuild ships that are over the tonnage/caliber as it won't let you save the designs. Are you sure about the first part? I just discovered that you can build poo poo disallowed by treaty so long as it'll finish after the treaty expires. So if your BB takes 30 months to build, you can start it when the treaty has 29 months to go. I thought the AI was cheating myself, but then I saw I could do the same and I didn't see them build anything illegal until build times started exceeding the remaining treaty time.
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Jul 23, 2015 09:09
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Regardless you can't save any designs, even redesigns that break the treaty. You are effectively stuck, as long as the treaty is active, with ships within the treaty limits or pre-treaty ships which you cannot redesign.
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Jul 23, 2015 11:10
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