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Samog
Dec 13, 2006
At least I'm not an 07.


modpud was the worst player in dominions four history for a really long time until, one day, she got really good at predicting enemy movements

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Samog
Dec 13, 2006
At least I'm not an 07.


uphold anti-revisionism in dominions four

Neruz
Jul 23, 2012

A paragon of manliness

I Love You! posted:

While it cannot be 100% confirmed she was Scumming maps for gems it is certain she was Scumming turns for mercs and player orders. She was probably doing it all though based on the numbers

She apparently straight out admitted it in IRC: I wasn't there at the time but people who were there like iloveu told everyone else about it later.

Flame112
Apr 21, 2011


Neruz posted:

She apparently straight out admitted it in IRC: I wasn't there at the time but people who were there like iloveu told everyone else about it later.

Like iloveu, the guy you quoted, saying he didn't know if she cheated for magic sites.

Space Bat
Apr 17, 2009

hold it now hold it now hold it right there
you wouldn't drop, couldn't drop diddy, you wouldn't dare


edit: nevermind, i did it

Neruz
Jul 23, 2012

A paragon of manliness

Flame112 posted:

Like iloveu, the guy you quoted, saying he didn't know if she cheated for magic sites.

I am good with names okay, someone said that she had admitted to scumming for high income provinces and magic sites :shrug:

More importantly; who cares. She's gone and it's over.

Sloppy Milkshake
Nov 9, 2004

I MAKE YOU HUMBLE



turn 11: Well I beat iloveu's heavy cav, but I forgot that prov had a bunch of wizards in it, so I lost a lot of troops too. Burlap sent some weird rear end message out and then took a prov from me without compensation, so I guess it's war. Fleurs took a prov in iloveu's (ilu's computer was broken and I think no one knew) cap circle so maybe they are fighting? Speaking of which, my scouting shows Fleurs looking pretty drat huge. If I succeed in all of my expansions this turn I'll be at 14 provinces which is respectable, if I fail them I'll be at 11 which is bad. I forgot to take any pictures this turn oops. Something I'm noticing about my play is that I take way too long to start wars. I should have went right at Burlap as soon as there were no indie provs to take, but I wussed out when I saw all those armored not-birdmans. I was worried I'd lose too much and then be easy pickings for Fleurs.

Also please stop talking about stupid modpud irc drama in an lp thread.

ChickenWing
Jul 22, 2010

:v:



IRC drama is fun though!

TheDemon
Dec 11, 2006

...on the plus side I'm feeling much more angry now than I expected so this totally helps me get in character.


Shoeless posted:

So a while back someone posted saying something to the effect that if people form a coalition, the only people who will actually bother putting effort into it and attacking the player it was formed against are either naive or just as dangerous as the person it was formed against. Could you clarify what you mean by that? Cause I don't see how a group attempt to take down a more powerful player is ever gonna work if everyone just sits on their hands waiting for someone else to do the work. Yes I am the naive person, it is me.

To put it simply,

It's really hard to fight someone who is more powerful than you. You are already "divided" in that you don't have good coordination with your allies and that you cannot combine armies or research. About the only thing a coalition can accomplish is taking land while the powerful opponent smashes one guy first. And this is if everyone goes all-in.

So what happens is no one wants to be that guy who gets smashed, because getting smashed is a 100% guarantee against someone you can't match on your own.

True coalitions will sometimes form but not of a bunch of little guys vs one big guy. Rather, they will form of one or more people who are more powerful than they appear to be, and a bunch of smaller powers who don't have much influence beyond value as distractions. The people who are powerful in the coalitions could all have taken on their coalition target on their own, or at least come extremely close, but because they formed an alliance what would have been a close war turns into a large overmatch. The result of such a coalition is to make the one who is powerful in the alliance even more powerful, because they have many more resources to grab territory quickly.

So if you're smart, you never enter into this kind of coalition either, unless you trick a bunch of people into playing Kingmaker on your behalf.



jng2058 posted:

I seem to recall from my Dom3 days that there was a marked difference in the gaming cultural between the SA Goons and the Dom3 Forum players. Goons were always much more ruthless and cutthroat, while the Ilwinter Forums guys would have these "unwritten rules" about never attacking in the first ten turns and stuff like that.

Is that difference still the case now that we've all moved to Dom4?

Once upon a time this was the case on the Shrapnel forums.

The secret is that as things went on, a good 20 to 40% of the people on Shrapnel and then Desura were also goons, so the culture there shifted to a more "well, poo poo happens" in regards to game winning.

At the same time, goons were never very backstabby at all, so that's also memetics at work.

TheDemon fucked around with this message at 13:17 on Aug 17, 2015

Sloppy Milkshake
Nov 9, 2004

I MAKE YOU HUMBLE



It's actually really not a good plan to sit around doing nothing while someone else wins.

Baudin
Dec 31, 2009


Turn 11:
I lovely short set of messages await me when I wake up:


The expansion went well - no losses again!



It seems Morlockia has started fighting with New Alfheim, and Iím not in position yet.



Now that Iím making a decent amount of cash and arenít saving up for a fortress right away I start pumping out some of my better units in my capital, and grab a gode as well to create a temple at my new fort.



My research isÖ anemic at best, so I start crafting those owl quills.



I would prefer to have dwarven hammers but those are construction 4 - theyíll have to wait.

Back to scouting - one more capital discovered:



Pax (player named Fleurs) appears to be doing quite well right now. Too well.

Nuclearmonkee
Jun 10, 2009




Dwarven hammers are construction two but you need Earth 3 to craft them. :shobon:

Dwarven hammers are a craftable item that cost 15 earth gems and require earth 3 to forge. A person wielding a dwarven hammer will receive a 2 gem discount on any item they forge, making them really nice if you are planning on forging tons of items, particularly cheap ones. Owl quills cost 5 air gems and require air 1. They grant +6 research points to the mage holding them and are really good if you can spam a few early on.

ousire
Dec 11, 2013

Now, Red! Seal the deal with a catchy one-liner!


The hammer really only gives a two gem discount? Didn't it give 25% discount in Dominions 3?

Baudin
Dec 31, 2009


ousire posted:

The hammer really only gives a two gem discount? Didn't it give 25% discount in Dominions 3?

Yes. They're not nearly as good for expensive items anymore.

ChickenWing
Jul 22, 2010

:v:



ousire posted:

The hammer really only gives a two gem discount? Didn't it give 25% discount in Dominions 3?

Yes.

A good change.

Nuclearmonkee
Jun 10, 2009




ChickenWing posted:

Yes.

A good change.

Not really imo. The other gemgen, resistance, affliction and regeneration changes are enough to get rid of the uber-thug meta of dom3. All the removal of the large discount did is make the hammer less useful overall and take longer to pay for itself, to the point that I do not generally craft them beyond the third year unless I specifically want to spend Earth gems in order to save another type. This is rare because I have no difficulty finding good places to sink E gems.

Forging in general is less good in dom4, probably by a little too much. Generally you want to just forge boosters of various varieties, research items and maybe some gear for specific SCs (god or prophet generally). If you can afford to forge gear to make line thugs you have such a large income that you are probably winning already or are playing a disciple game.

ChickenWing
Jul 22, 2010

:v:



Nuclearmonkee posted:

Not really imo. The other gemgen, resistance, affliction and regeneration changes are enough to get rid of the uber-thug meta of dom3. All the removal of the large discount did is make the hammer less useful overall and take longer to pay for itself, to the point that I do not generally craft them beyond the third year unless I specifically want to spend Earth gems in order to save another type. This is rare because I have no difficulty finding good places to sink E gems.

On the other hand, it makes hammers less *necessary* - from everything I've heard, it seems like in dom3 either you had hammers or you were literally a second-class pantokrator.

Nuclearmonkee
Jun 10, 2009




ChickenWing posted:

On the other hand, it makes hammers less *necessary* - from everything I've heard, it seems like in dom3 either you had hammers or you were literally a second-class pantokrator.

You generally wanted hammers yes because you need it for your clam farm and slamming out gear for your thug factory. But there are no more clam farms and thugs are far less effective.

BurlapNapkin
Feb 11, 2013


Sloppy Milkshake posted:

Something I'm noticing about my play is that I take way too long to start wars. I should have went right at Burlap as soon as there were no indie provs to take, but I wussed out when I saw all those armored not-birdmans.

To be fair to you, you did blitz into my cap circle, and demanded compensation for the province, so it wasn't like you rolled over diplomatically. To add Morlockia's perspective here, I'm a very small nation that is build more around a theme rather than power, so I'm being bad and securing my cap circle (the provinces directly adjacent to your capitol) and working on diplomacy with my neighbors.

As you can see from this Let's play, though, two of my neighbors are expansionist nations that feel like they haven't expanded enough. We'll get to watch how that plays out in the coming turns :downs:

(In addition to IRC diplomacy I sent Thespo a lore-friendly message through ingame channels, because foolofsound wrote connected histories for our nations. It was indeed weird, I wish I had screenshotted it)

Elite
Oct 30, 2010


Hello internet connoisseurs, I present a dank and/or hilarious meme for your appreciation. It may or may not be borderline unreadable, but if you aren't squinting at barely visible details then it isn't Dominions.



You can also have this vintage image to help explain why dogpiles fail:



Though really they should've all been computers rather than skulls.

Anyway I'm in for another Dominions LP, the Wheel turns once again as they say.

Baudin
Dec 31, 2009


Turn 12:



So much for finding anything in this particular round of site searching. Drat.

Since I have a scout in a province where two other players are fighting I can watch the combat!



Unfortunately it doesnít look too interesting. Still, itís good to know Pax is fighting my mortal enemy, the Mongler Horde.



I start recruiting more troops - I add in some crossbowmen since Iíve run out of expansion options relatively early. Time to see about smashing in faces.



Iíve also started equipping my master smiths with quills for increased research. Hopefully I can get construction 4 in decent time. (Edit: Clearly I'm as bad at dominions 4 as I am at posting regularly :cripes:)

I also start moving my troops back to my capital - Morlockia has taken a province in my cap circle, something Iíll need to remedy in short order.



State of the world: the northeast:



And Southwest:



You can see Pax has a lot of provinces. Definitely a problem, alas probably for later since I have no way of attacking him directly.

With that, another turn ended! Sadly just moving troops around for the most part - something that wonít change quickly Iím sure.

fool of sound
Oct 10, 2012


Year 1 just wrapped up, so let's look at the state of the world:



~15 provinces by the end of year 1 is the baseline for decent expansion, and there are some very clear winners and losers on that front. Year 1 is usually reserved for expansion, since it's very easy to accidentally kill yourself in an early war, but that hasn't stopped Pax from rushing JonJoe before he could get a blood economy started. During Year 2 we're going to start seeing smaller players get gobbled up: Rephalim and Morlockia are going to have to make deal with the major powers to their north and south to survive this next phase, and hopefully be able to get a bit stronger off the carrion. Theai is ripe for conquest, and Hy-Brasil and Boingladaesh might team up to take him down, if his sacreds prove to be a problem. Fallen Alfhiem and Goran aren't major players, but they're both big enough that it would be a major investment to conquer them this early, which would leave the attacker open to other enemies, so they're probably safe for now.

The continent is mostly taken save for some provinces with nasty indies, and thrones (which we'll talk about when people start getting them), but the ocean is still very open, though Hy-Brasil is making an effort to claim it asap; a good idea on this map, more than a third of the provinces are coastal.

Also: :siren:Vote-ish Time:siren:

I'm taking the first poster's request to do a breakdown of Fallen Alfhiem, Goran, Hy-Brasil, or Morlockia. I think those are all the once I haven't done yet.

fool of sound fucked around with this message at 01:11 on Aug 20, 2015

Gridlocked
Aug 2, 2014

MR. STUPID MORON
WITH AN UGLY FACE
AND A BIG BUTT
AND HIS BUTT SMELLS
AND HE LIKES TO KISS
HIS OWN BUTT
by Roger Hargreaves


Break down Morlockia cause gently caress it.

ousire
Dec 11, 2013

Now, Red! Seal the deal with a catchy one-liner!


What kind of aquatic units does Brasil have access to? How're they taking over the ocean already?

Decrepus
May 21, 2008

In the end, his dominion did not touch a single poster.


Look at this meme

fool of sound
Oct 10, 2012


ousire posted:

What kind of aquatic units does Brasil have access to? How're they taking over the ocean already?

Ichtycentaur Cataphracts. Recruit anywhere sacred water centaurs.

Feinne
Oct 9, 2007

When you fall, get right back up again.


One interesting diplomatic situation is Morlockia having one of Baudin's cap circle provinces. Baudin would not be unreasonable in asking him to cede it, and unless Morlockia is actively planning to attack the expectation would be that he will do so.

Like neither of them really wants to get into a dumb fight over something like that right now because they're surrounded by stronger neighbors and regardless of who 'wins' the war they're both out of the game at that point.

Feinne fucked around with this message at 03:18 on Aug 20, 2015

Baudin
Dec 31, 2009


Feinne posted:

One interesting diplomatic situation is Morlockia having one of Baudin's cap circle provinces. Baudin would not be unreasonable in asking him to cede it, and unless Morlockia is actively planning to attack the expectation would be that he will do so.

Like neither of them really wants to get into a dumb fight over something like that right now because they're surrounded by stronger neighbors and regardless of who 'wins' the war they're both out of the game at that point.

Oh boy.

Edit: I'm somewhat hesitant to give too much information on what I'm thinking and doing diplomatically since a) I'm bad at it, and b) a lot of what I'm doing and saying I don't want everyone to know about, even 12 turns out. I could give more info if people are interested.

Baudin fucked around with this message at 08:02 on Aug 20, 2015

Fat Samurai
Feb 16, 2011

To go quickly is foolish. To go slowly is prudent. Not to go; that is wisdom.


You're lying to everyone, got it.

This LP is making me want to try Dominions again. I thought that half a game here and being destroyed on turn 10 by EA tribless Mictlan on Desura was enough, but it seems I still have that masochistic streak.

Sloppy Milkshake
Nov 9, 2004

I MAKE YOU HUMBLE



Turn 12: All of my expansions succeeded. Starting up a fort in one of the new spots. It looks like Burlap has built a fort in the southernmost Morlockia province, which lets me know that burlap telegraphs fort construction (building a temple, which is visible on the map before the the fort is completed). That is potentially useful information! It looks like Burlap and Baudin had a dust up about some cap ring provinces, so that essentially seals the deal on a tag teaming by Buadin and I. Unless Burlap has a serious trump card hidden this is pretty bad diplomacy. Probably don't antagonize two of your closest neighbors right around the time that people start looking to start their first war. Based on the posturing, I'm assuming that Burlap has reached enchantment 5 for Horde of Skeletons. If not, then I'm not sure what Burlap's game plan is going to be. I'm gonna search some sites and get some real minor bloodhunts going so I can make some blood divining rods. My research is kinda bad right now, but I'll be able to make some things real soon that will speed it up. Here's my view of the world so far:

ChickenWing
Jul 22, 2010

:v:



Feinne posted:

One interesting diplomatic situation is Morlockia having one of Baudin's cap circle provinces. Baudin would not be unreasonable in asking him to cede it, and unless Morlockia is actively planning to attack the expectation would be that he will do so.

Like neither of them really wants to get into a dumb fight over something like that right now because they're surrounded by stronger neighbors and regardless of who 'wins' the war they're both out of the game at that point.

Generally people will now ask for an "indy-clearing-fee", some small arbitrary sum potentially plus the income they might have received over the next couple turns if the province is particularly valuable.

I know I've started a war over it before, in roughly this same situation.

Feinne
Oct 9, 2007

When you fall, get right back up again.


ChickenWing posted:

Generally people will now ask for an "indy-clearing-fee", some small arbitrary sum potentially plus the income they might have received over the next couple turns if the province is particularly valuable.

I know I've started a war over it before, in roughly this same situation.

Oh yeah it's totally worth starting a war over if you think you can remain unmolested while it's occurring on either side. You kind of NEED to push the guy out of your cap circle whether it's willing or not and if you have any idea that you can take the other guy if you can get their cap sieged before they've got a second fort up you might be able to just absorb their poo poo with minimal effort.

It's risky if you haven't made some sort of agreement with larger neighbors though, because they don't actually WANT you to double in size from 'total joke' to 'maybe contender?' and your forces will be pretty depleted by the war effort for a bit. So the general expectation if you don't have good reason to believe otherwise is that they'll invade you when your forces hit a low ebb.

Feinne fucked around with this message at 15:20 on Aug 20, 2015

Obliterati
Nov 13, 2012

Pain is inevitable.
Suffering is optional.
Thunderdome is forever.


Baudin posted:

Oh boy.

Edit: I'm somewhat hesitant to give too much information on what I'm thinking and doing diplomatically since a) I'm bad at it, and b) a lot of what I'm doing and saying I don't want everyone to know about, even 12 turns out. I could give more info if people are interested.

Bad at diplo my rear end. Gotta keep schemin' son

BurlapNapkin
Feb 11, 2013


I believe my diplomacy to Baudin that turn was to the tune of: damnit my scouting is awful and I didn't know this was your cap circle. You can have it back but I need a turn to move dudes out of it.

So at least I was consistent, neither demanding nor paying indie clearing tax. Might have been slightly influenced by draftgame nation power on that one. None of the indy fights I was aware of actually cost a player units. Turns are still a big thing, granted.

TheDemon
Dec 11, 2006

...on the plus side I'm feeling much more angry now than I expected so this totally helps me get in character.


it depends what kind of relationship you want with the player/nation in question

I usually just give up cap circle provinces, as it's unreasonable to retain them. If I want to fight the player but not immediately I might ask a small fee. If the province isn't cap circle but someone is asking for it (or it makes ugly borders / difficult fort placements), I'll usually ask for a province swap. If they're being unreasonable over it, I'll ask for a hefty fee (usually a year's income including gems, plus some). If they piss me off with territory claims I usually just kill them.

Speleothing
May 6, 2008

Spare batteries are pretty key.

I like to put a little pd in just so they can't scout cap it. One or two points.

fool of sound
Oct 10, 2012


I generally ask them to trade me another province if one is available.

Libluini
May 18, 2012

I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...


Grimey Drawer

Generally, I can be convinced to give it back if the other player gives me a good reason. After all, this gives me an easy way to gauge player behaviour.

Baudin
Dec 31, 2009


Turn 13:
IRC Quote of the Turn:
(11:09:13 PM) thespo: burlap is truly the most hitler

Turn 13:

Uhh Pax (Fleurs) is pretty drat big.



This could be a potential problem. For later!

The owl quill production continues - itís the only reason I asked for native air gem generation.


(Ed: I'm a loving retard, clearly - more air gems would be useful later on)

My research continues (all focused on that sweet, sweet construction),



Iím also continuing to recruit more men and giant men in my capital.



All so I can move on a nearby foe soon.

Soooooooooooooon.

Baudin fucked around with this message at 19:16 on Aug 24, 2015

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Neruz
Jul 23, 2012

A paragon of manliness

Baudin, the only person who thinks Air Gems are only good for Owl Quills :v:

(Air gems are probably the most useful gems in the entire game because they can be used to summon Air Elementals, amongst other things)

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